Why do we need priests?

Giuliano said:

I remind you that the Law was given to Israel not me. So were the Prophets and Writings. Your statement is lacking in logic, even fallacious. Gentiles can keep the things in the Spiritual Law without reading the laws of Moses.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

That was what the original covenant was meant to be. Most Jews know and accept this. Is there a need for a "new" covenant with Gentiles?

I'm not sure why you're introducing the Sixth Seal into the question; what are those ruling with Jesus for a thousand years doing? I think you may need to revise your views. There is a need for priests even during the Thousand Year Reign.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I also ask what of this?

Zechariah 8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

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I see clearly where you are coming form and it is not I who has made any fallacious claim.
God Bless!

CovenantPromise said:

Well then you do not know the scriptures if do not know that she is. What you tend to do is, pick and choose what you want when clearly scripture show her to be a queen simply because Christ is the King of kings and Lord of Lords.

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Do you see how absurd this sounds? Well let us settle the matter with Scripture. Paul was writing by divine inspiration, therefore his epistles are regarded as Scripture -- the words of God. So here are the words of God as pertains to Mary:

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. (Gal 4:4,5)

Now if what the Catholic Church teaches were true, then God would have said "born of the Queen of Heaven", not "made of a woman" (which is a reference to Genesis 3:15).

You will find in the New Testament that Christ NEVER addressed His mother Mary as "Mother", but always as "Woman". And when He was told that His mother and brothers were waiting to meet with Him (while He was surrounded by crowds of people) what did Jesus say?

MATTHEW 12
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Jesus was neither disrespecting nor disavowing His mother. But what He was doing is addressing the FALSE DOCTRINE of the Catholics and Orthodox regarding Mary!

Thank you for your response and the clarity of it... even if I am not with you on every point... that is to say I cannot agree without reservation.

CovenantPromise said:

Addressing the silver doctrine thing. Joseph and Mary were married according to the Law. "And he knew her not until she brought forth her first born son" For me I do not care either way, that is not the main tenet of her service to God. And is not a measure in which to determine the meaning of perpetual virginity . Scripture is clear, and I know the meaning of her perpetual virginity. Scripture reveals it for those who are actually interested in finding it. But sometimes pride blinds men. And men devise their OWN doctrines that are not supported by the foundation- is my point.

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I agree on the virginity of Mary without adding the "perpetual". I am not adding anything here. I have read the arguments including the scriptures used and cannot see that "perpetual". My own vision may remain as through a glass darkly but God is still working on me. I do not intend to perish for lack of a God given vision.

Silver doctrine- I say because , many Protestants reject certain truths , like they believe in baptism but most only accept immersion when scripture is clear that pouring and sprinkling are acceptable too. Most Protestant preachers are of the fire and brimstone type but do not present the body and blood of Christ. That is fine as long as they simply glorify Christ and not bash people for believing in the fact that Christ is truly present in His ordained supper.
I say silver - because they do not choose to honor Mother Mary, that is their choice and that is fine as long as they do not bash those who do because there is no sin in doing so. So profess Christ without condemning those who choose to uphold all He says.

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So you say silver because of difference in your own beliefs which you call "truths". This is not in itself an evil thing so long as you don't insist that you also cannot be in error. I am not speaking of the CC or any other group when I say "you", but rather "you" personally. I do believe that absolute truth exists, but any time anyone insists [too strongly?] on each one of these truths are, I have to sit back and leave it in God's hands, whether I ultimately agree or disagree, since I understand that I too may be in error.

Just so you know, if you did not already surmise, I don't go along with the "mosts" of Protestants you mention, nor do I go along with your position on baptism and on the "body and blood of Christ". Those are outside the immediate scope of this thread so I leave them alone.

That is what I mean by silver doctrine. How can that , which is not a standard of higher quality be called something it is not? Concubines are to remain in praise of Christ not in bashing first fruits. They do not produce first fruits= those of the first resurrection. They are only responsible for spreading Christ's fame -name. But when they start attacking the HEART of the Law they have stepped out of bounds. Mother Mary is especially off limits if she is not considered with the upmost consideration.

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Here again you have admitted your favor of your own position by inferring by usage that others, not in your camp, are "concubines" rather than what?

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:8-9

So do I also favor my own position over yours, but that is the way of men, be they right or not:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

My dove, my undefiled is but one, is the key to the Bride of Christ. I see the Bride as including perhaps some Catholics as well as some many from the various all Protestant denominations, and some perhaps not clearly in either of those groups. I would not bluntly speak of one or the other as only a concubine as opposed to the dove, the undefiled one. That is not my call being well outside the place where God has brought me... as of this point in my time.

Giuliano said:

I think people can err by going to the left and to the right. Some are too independent, being wise in their own eyes, while others slavishly follow the teachings of others without ever coming to see anything for themselves, never progressing.

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You see the picture not so far from the way I see it. Some will agree with us on this. Some will disagree. Some will not know what we are talking about...

Give God the glory!

CovenantPromise said:

I see clearly where you are coming form and it is not I who has made any fallacious claim.
God Bless!

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You do not see it? You wrote:

No kidding Abraham lived without a bible he was living the bible to come. You are not the first predestined, Elect of God. You have a bible because you are NOT that. The apple tree ISRAEL is.

I reminded you that Israel received the Law and the Prophets, not me as a Gentile. I don't mind if people make mistakes, but I do appreciate it if they can own their mistakes and correct their views.

You also said there would be no need for priests after the Sixth Seal. Revelation says that's not so. You really can not see where you've stumbled a bit?

amadeus said:

Thank you for your response and the clarity of it... even if I am not with you on every point... that is to say I cannot agree without reservation.

I agree on the virginity of Mary without adding the "perpetual". I am not adding anything here. I have read the arguments including the scriptures used and cannot see that "perpetual". My own vision may remain as through a glass darkly but God is still working on me. I do not intend to perish for lack of a God given vision.


So you say silver because of difference in your own beliefs which you call "truths". This is not in itself an evil thing so long as you don't insist that you also cannot be in error. I am not speaking of the CC or any other group when I say "you", but rather "you" personally. I do believe that absolute truth exists, but any time anyone insists [too strongly?] on each one of these truths are, I have to sit back and leave it in God's hands, whether I ultimately agree or disagree, since I understand that I too may be in error.

Just so you know, if you did not already surmise, I don't go along with the "mosts" of Protestants you mention, nor do I go along with your position on baptism and on the "body and blood of Christ". Those are outside the immediate scope of this thread so I leave them alone.



Here again you have admitted your favor of your own position by inferring by usage that others, not in your camp, are "concubines" rather than what?

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:8-9

So do I also favor my own position over yours, but that is the way of men, be they right or not:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

My dove, my undefiled is but one, is the key to the Bride of Christ. I see the Bride as including perhaps some Catholics as well as some many from the various all Protestant denominations, and some perhaps not clearly in either of those groups. I would not bluntly speak of one or the other as only a concubine as opposed to the dove, the undefiled one. That is not my call being well outside the place where God has brought me... as of this point in my time.

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I can not be in error as long as I lean on my Beloved. He can never be in error. As for perpetual it is in the Psalms. Many of the Psalms are prophecies concerning the acts of Christ. I am sure you know that. It is not virgins it is maidens without number in the Song of Solomon. I guess that is determined by what interpretation you use. But I am correct, because maidens without number are those who have yet to be in union with Christ. They have yet to be numbered among the Body of Christ they have no number in Him yet. Think about it? And one is a virgin only once perfected and made new and fully restored.

2 Corinthians 11:1-3
1I hope you will bear with a little of my foolishness, but you are already doing that. 2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.…

That would not be as you said then- that there are virgins without number but rather as I said Maidens.
Song of Songs 6:8-10
Together in the Garden
…8There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and maidens without number, 9but my dove, my perfect one, is unique, the favorite of the mother who bore her. The maidens see her and call her blessed; the queens and concubines sing her praises. 10Who is this who shines like the dawn, as fair as the moon, as bright as the sun, as majestic as the stars in procession?…

This is about the princess Shulammite . Shulammite means -From a place of peace as there is Shalom there is Shulam which is simply the feminine of Shalom.

It is the Spirit and the Bride that say come !

She is called a princess because she is the youngest and last of the those called predestined and elect of God. She is a church body which will be living during the time of global tribulation . She is called the favorite of her mother- Mary because of her obedience in love. She has believed and not only believed but understands the Apparitions of her Mother, even when men have altered and lied about their meaning. The true apparitions are upheld by the Beloved whom she leans upon (Christ). "In Fatima the Dogma of the faith shall always be preserved"- Mother Mary. Understanding: "In the Shinning One the Dogma of the faith shall always be preserved" we are in the Rev.12 season . The Shulammite is the last, the completion and fullness of those numbered as part of the New Covenant. She is who the brothers and mother -the first to know have been waiting for. The Shulammite is the Completed work of God for them.

God Bless!
DNM.

10Who is this who shines like the dawn, as fair as the moon, as bright as the sun, as majestic as the stars in procession?…

This lines up with revelation 12. This final church is like the first. She is sister to it as 2 John reveals . He calls her "Kuria" interpreted as Noble lady. She is the last of heavens labor. She is made in the Image of Mother Mary whom this body has a devotion to. That is why Paul speaks of presenting us as a virgin. The standard of this, is the Image of the sign of Immanuel- Mother Mary as to grace and function in purity and fidelity .That is why Paul uses the reference of a Virgin. And clearly Mary is the example of this, not Israel as a nation, as some would claim. For Israel was no virgin hence why God had to give them a sign and their Messiah.
Isaiah 7:13-15
The Sign of Immanuel
…13Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well? 14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.…

This end time church is made pure and undefiled just as Mother Mary.

Pearl said:

Why do we need priests?

I was pondering this question in my mind yesterday. I can understand why the unsaved or unbelievers might need priests to act as intermediaries between them and God but I can’t understand why those of us who are born again in Christ need priests as the bible calls us a Royal Priesthood. We have direct access to the Father’s throne so we do not need anybody else to access him for us.

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9

Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:16

We do however, need people to be there with us and for us; to hold up our arms, to wipe our tears and to share our joy. We do need a support network of other Christians; people who will pray with us and for us, encourage, inspire and help us. We need teachers and preachers and we definitely need wise counsellors and inspirational leaders with passion, vision and enthusiasm.

But we do not need priests.

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The three-fold model of the priesthood which was in use at the time of Aaron was carried over into the New Testament and thus we find there also a high priest, ministerial priests, and universal priests.

• In the New Testament age the high priest is Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1),
• the ministerial priests are Christ’s ordained ministers of the gospel (Rom. 15:16),
• and the universal priests are the entire Christian people (1 Peter. 2:5, 9).

So the Bible clearly states that all Christians are priests (1 Peter 2:5, 9), as the Catholic Church clearly teaches for all who bother to read its teachings, see Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4, 1268, 1305, 1535, 1547, 1591-2 on the common priesthood. But the Bible also said the same thing about the Israelites (Ex. 19:6), yet this did not prevent there from being a separate, ministerial priesthood even before the Law of Moses was given (Ex. 19:22, 24).

Willie T said:

It is quite explicit throughout the Bible that we do not need some man who calls himself "Priest."

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This priesthood is identical with the office of elder. In fact, the term “priest” is simply a shortened, English version of the Greek word for “elder” — presbuteros — as any dictionary will confirm. Some Old Catholic translations render the word as “priests” where Protestant Bibles have “elder.”

Pearl said:

People needed the priests of old as they were the only ones permitted into the Holy of Holies, but Jesus's death split the temple curtain and made it possible for us to approach God directly as our Father.

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That's true, but these two Protestant commentaries found in biblehub make no connection of the splitting of the temple veil with ordination of ministerial priests. It's a non-sequitur fallacy. Entry into the common priesthood is for anybody, but ordination by a bishop with the laying on of hands is required, as the Bible repeatedly indicates.
APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY AND SUCCESSION - Scripture Catholic

Giuliano said:

You do not see it? You wrote:

No kidding Abraham lived without a bible he was living the bible to come. You are not the first predestined, Elect of God. You have a bible because you are NOT that. The apple tree ISRAEL is.

I reminded you that Israel received the Law and the Prophets, not me as a Gentile. I don't mind if people make mistakes, but I do appreciate it if they can own their mistakes and correct their views.

You also said there would be no need for priests after the Sixth Seal. Revelation says that's not so. You really can not see where you've stumbled a bit?

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Giuliano said: ↑ he also said:
It can also require another person sometimes. The eunuch could have read that prophecy all day without knowing what it meant. Likewise the people had read the Scriptures. They had someone come along with something; and then they searched the scriptures again to see if it could be so.

I would be afraid to think of myself that way. Perhaps I need to be more skeptical about myself and my own motives. I don't want to wind up hearing Jesus tell me to depart, that he never knew me. I need to be on guard.

My faith in is God. Abraham lived without a Bible. If we cannot, then there's something deficient with us. I don't know what many people mean by doctrines. I honestly don't. What do we need in the way of doctrines to please God? For me, a doctrine is useful only if it shows me how to love God or my fellow man more. Good doctrines bear good fruits. If our lives are a mess, bearing bad fruits, reading the Bible for correction and reproof may give us "sound doctrines" that help us in our daily lives.

MY RESPONSE TO Giuliano:
No kidding Abraham lived without a bible he was living the bible to come. You are not the first predestined, Elect of God. You have a bible because you are NOT that. The apple tree ISRAEL is. That tree in which we have been awaken under the influence of has been presented to you. It is the Standard and Rod in which to conduct and measure our lives. You are not responsible for that. Nor is any gentile nation. Therefore , your assembly is simply a grafted in people, not of Jewish descent but of gentile in calling. So your point?
Hebrews 8:10-12
The New Covenant
…10For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. 11No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”…

This is the end game . After the sixth seal all who are to be of the fullness of the Covenant will not teach his neighbor . This is what Christ intended from the beginning. My point is, some still need guidance from priest. And a priesthood is to equalize and make brothers, not keep people underfoot. But men will still perform the altar duties , it is to glorify God.
And I never said there would be no need for priest after the sixth seal. I said Christ's purpose from the beginning is to bring all people to know him.

CovenantPromise said:

Giuliano said: ↑ he also said:
It can also require another person sometimes. The eunuch could have read that prophecy all day without knowing what it meant. Likewise the people had read the Scriptures. They had someone come along with something; and then they searched the scriptures again to see if it could be so.

I would be afraid to think of myself that way. Perhaps I need to be more skeptical about myself and my own motives. I don't want to wind up hearing Jesus tell me to depart, that he never knew me. I need to be on guard.

My faith in is God. Abraham lived without a Bible. If we cannot, then there's something deficient with us. I don't know what many people mean by doctrines. I honestly don't. What do we need in the way of doctrines to please God? For me, a doctrine is useful only if it shows me how to love God or my fellow man more. Good doctrines bear good fruits. If our lives are a mess, bearing bad fruits, reading the Bible for correction and reproof may give us "sound doctrines" that help us in our daily lives.

MY RESPONSE TO Giuliano:
No kidding Abraham lived without a bible he was living the bible to come. You are not the first predestined, Elect of God. You have a bible because you are NOT that. The apple tree ISRAEL is. That tree in which we have been awaken under the influence of has been presented to you. It is the Standard and Rod in which to conduct and measure our lives. You are not responsible for that. Nor is any gentile nation. Therefore , your assembly is simply a grafted in people, not of Jewish descent but of gentile in calling. So your point?
Hebrews 8:10-12
The New Covenant
…10For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. 11No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”…

This is the end game . After the sixth seal all who are to be of the fullness of the Covenant will not teach his neighbor . This is what Christ intended from the beginning. My point is, some still need guidance from priest. And a priesthood is to equalize and make brothers, not keep people underfoot. But men will still perform the altar duties , it is to glorify God.
And I never said there would be no need for priest after the sixth seal. I said Christ's purpose from the beginning is to bring all people to know him.

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I give up on trying to understand you, sorry.

Giuliano said:

I give up on trying to understand you, sorry.

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No hard feelings, we just met after all.
God Bless!

epostle said:

The three-fold model of the priesthood which was in use at the time of Aaron was carried over into the New Testament and thus we find there also a high priest, ministerial priests, and universal priests.

• In the New Testament age the high priest is Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1),
• the ministerial priests are Christ’s ordained ministers of the gospel (Rom. 15:16),
• and the universal priests are the entire Christian people (1 Peter. 2:5, 9).

So the Bible clearly states that all Christians are priests (1 Peter 2:5, 9), as the Catholic Church clearly teaches for all who bother to read its teachings, see Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4, 1268, 1305, 1535, 1547, 1591-2 on the common priesthood. But the Bible also said the same thing about the Israelites (Ex. 19:6), yet this did not prevent there from being a separate, ministerial priesthood even before the Law of Moses was given (Ex. 19:22, 24).


This priesthood is identical with the office of elder. In fact, the term “priest” is simply a shortened, English version of the Greek word for “elder” — presbuteros — as any dictionary will confirm. Some Old Catholic translations render the word as “priests” where Protestant Bibles have “elder.”
That's true, but these two Protestant commentaries found in biblehub make no connection of the splitting of the temple veil with ordination of ministerial priests. It's a non-sequitur fallacy. Entry into the common priesthood is for anybody, but ordination by a bishop with the laying on of hands is required, as the Bible repeatedly indicates.
APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY AND SUCCESSION - Scripture Catholic

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This all, is good. I have a question for you....Can a priest in Mortal sin consecrate the Eucharist?

God Bless!

CovenantPromise said:

I can not be in error as long as I lean on my Beloved. He can never be in error.

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"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6

But, then Apostle Paul warns us here:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

This quenching of the Holy Spirit within us equals that leaning on our own understanding. It equals not leaning on Jesus but instead leaning on ourselves and our own ways or the ways of other men [not speaking of leaning on a man as that man is led by the Holy Spirit].

As for perpetual it is in the Psalms. Many of the Psalms are prophecies concerning the acts of Christ. I am sure you know that. It is not virgins it is maidens without number in the Song of Solomon. I guess that is determined by what interpretation you use. But I am correct, because maidens without number are those who have yet to be in union with Christ. They have yet to be numbered among the Body of Christ they have no number in Him yet. Think about it? And one is a virgin only once perfected and made new and fully restored.

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I have thought, read, studied and prayed on some of these very things. I have listened to preachers and teachers who knew a lot but I will grant that I do not recall a teacher of mine who favored this perpetual part for Mary's virginity. In the Catholic Church as a child it may have been mentioned, but the nuns never taught such things in depth and their teaching is the only teaching I recall [ended when I finished elementary school in 1957] while active in the CC. [My active Catholicism ended in 1961 prior to Vatican II changes.]

I read the Psalms very regularly, much more regularly than most of the rest of the Bible, but I have never seen this support for Mary's unending virginity you mention. I, of course, have not seen everything that God has to show us. Who has?

I do believe in the pursuit of perfection, for Jesus mentions it in no uncertain terms:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" Matt 5:48

Man's usual problem, in my experience, is that looking for a man's definition of perfection, he claims that no man can attain to it while still in the veil of flesh. What God describes as perfection however in the scriptures is not the same [as what men usually call perfection]... at least not from I have seen and understood.

2 Corinthians 11:1-3
1I hope you will bear with a little of my foolishness, but you are already doing that. 2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.…

That would not be as you said then- that there are virgins without number but rather as I said Maidens.
Song of Songs 6:8-10
Together in the Garden
…8There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and maidens without number, 9but my dove, my perfect one, is unique, the favorite of the mother who bore her. The maidens see her and call her blessed; the queens and concubines sing her praises. 10Who is this who shines like the dawn, as fair as the moon, as bright as the sun, as majestic as the stars in procession?…

This is about the princess Shulammite . Shulammite means -From a place of peace as there is Shalom there is Shulam which is simply the feminine of Shalom.

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Princess? Perhaps, but my Bibles simply indicate a great or wealthy woman. There is certainly a connection between the Shulammite or Shunemite woman as per II Kings 4:8ff and the references in the Song of Solomon passages. She blesses Elisha the prophet with a place to sleep and in turn, she being barren, is blessed with a child that subsequently dies. Through Elisha the child's life is restored. This is a type or shadow of things to come. I won't attempt to tell you what it is a shadow of especially you have shown below part of your own take on it...

It is the Spirit and the Bride that say come !

She is called a princess because she is the youngest and last of the those called predestined and elect of God. She is a church body which will be living during the time of global tribulation . She is called the favorite of her mother- Mary because of her obedience in love. She has believed and not only believed but understands the Apparitions of her Mother, even when men have altered and lied about their meaning. The true apparitions are upheld by the Beloved whom she leans upon (Christ). "In Fatima the Dogma of the faith shall always be preserved"- Mother Mary. Understanding: "In the Shinning One the Dogma of the faith shall always be preserved" we are in the Rev.12 season . The Shulammite is the last, the completion and fullness of those numbered as part of the New Covenant. She is who the brothers and mother -the first to know have been waiting for. The Shulammite is the Completed work of God for them.

God Bless!
DNM.

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The various apparent visions of Mary are important to the CC and members of that faith/church, but I really don't consider them as I know little about them. They were things I heard of while an active Catholic, but I heard of many things outside of scripture in the CC and other places. If I were to pursue them all I would certainly run short of time. The Bible would seem to be a better use of what time I have... so until God directs me, I leave them alone. I am certain others here will discuss such visions if you wish to do so.

I really do strive to be always be led by the Holy Spirit.

CovenantPromise said:

This all, is good. I have a question for you....Can a priest in Mortal sin consecrate the Eucharist?

God Bless!

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The sin of the priest has no bearing on the Eucharist as long as the Priest is a real priest and the consecration is valid. The trans-substance comes from God and the priest just the instrument. In your scenario, the priest would be committing the sin of sacrilege. Only God knows who is in mortal sin. For something to be a mortal sin, the person must:
A) know the seriousness of the action
B) but go ahead and act on it anyway.

Fallen priests do not disprove the doctrine of the priesthood. But discrediting the Church by focusing on bad priests is handy for those who want to discredit moral authority. Then they feel justified in doing whatever they want. (contraception, abortion, euthanasia, same sex unions, etc.)

CovenantPromise said:

That is right, it is by the Holy Spirit that the scriptures are understood. And yes men tend to self interpret. But the Holy Spirit is very convincing , especially to those who are Christ's . "I know mine and mine know me". Clearly TRUTH is recognized by those who TRULY LOVE Christ.

And still yet , what you post of the scriptures, does not delete out what Paul and Timothy said, but simply expounds upon and upholds what they said. Scripture alone , no matter what, is what we need to uphold doctrines- is the point. You will find that properly interpreted scripture will be like a sword to those who reject truth. There is a difference that is felt when the Holy Spirit is in the driver's seat.

God Bless

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Without His Word, we would be flailing about even more so than we already do. For our minds to be sound and focused we follow The Word. And since without it, we will have no faith as, "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" Romans 10:17...and if we have no faith then...we can never please God.
"Without faith, it is impossible to please God." Hebrews 11:6

stunnedbygrace said:

It depends on the word afterward I guess. After what?

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Nancy said: ↑
"And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions."

Many see this as today. I am not settled on the fact as yet...like, could this not have been what happened in Act's?"

I would say, after the Day of The Lord? And will say again that I am not yet settled on this. It's a dispensation thing and I am def not settled on that.

epostle said:

The sin of the priest has no bearing on the Eucharist as long as the Priest is a real priest and the consecration is valid. The trans-substance comes from God and the priest just the instrument. In your scenario, the priest would be committing the sin of sacrilege. Only God knows who is in mortal sin. For something to be a mortal sin, the person must:
A) know the seriousness of the action
B) but go ahead and act on it anyway.

Fallen priests do not disprove the doctrine of the priesthood. But discrediting the Church by focusing on bad priests is handy for those who want to discredit moral authority. Then they feel justified in doing whatever they want. (contraception, abortion, euthanasia, same sex unions, etc.)

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Well I definitely have to disagree with you there. And so would the prophets and many saints from the Catholic Church. There seems to be two trains of thought coming out of this assembly and they are heading toward a head on collision!

Enoch111 said:

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between elder/pastors and priests (RCC/EOC).

1. Pastors are not there to offer sacrifices on altars such as the Mass.
2. Pastors are shepherds, but have no special powers.
3. Pastors are not authorized to hear confessions.
4. Pastors are not authorized to give absolution for sins.
5. Pastors are not authorized to take clerical titles (although many do).
6. All believers are priests within a Royal Priesthood.

The primary duty of Levitical priests was to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of themselves and Israel. That priesthood came to an end the day Christ died. Therefore human priests today have a BOGUS priesthood.

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I have much to learn.

Nancy said:

Nancy said: ↑
"And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions."

Many see this as today. I am not settled on the fact as yet...like, could this not have been what happened in Act's?"

I would say, after the Day of The Lord? And will say again that I am not yet settled on this. It's a dispensation thing and I am def not settled on that.

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Psh! No one is settled on it, lol! If they seem to be, they've most likely mashed together different time frames.

I read Joel 1 and 2 while keeping your thought in mind. At first, I thought, no because in that "afterward" men will prophesy, and my thought was that there would be no prophesying after that terrible time. But then I thought, yes, there very well WILL be prophesying about the release and future war after 1,000 years have passed.

The prophets are difficult because they speak about what was then present time, then switch to future, then switch to far future, and THEN they go back to what was then present time!

So I think you have to carefully look for the clues about which time frame is being spoken of. Is it before or after the gathering together? And is it before or after the 1000 years?
Can you say headache?!

epostle said:

The sin of the priest has no bearing on the Eucharist as long as the Priest is a real priest and the consecration is valid. The trans-substance comes from God and the priest just the instrument. In your scenario, the priest would be committing the sin of sacrilege. Only God knows who is in mortal sin. For something to be a mortal sin, the person must:
A) know the seriousness of the action
B) but go ahead and act on it anyway.

Fallen priests do not disprove the doctrine of the priesthood. But discrediting the Church by focusing on bad priests is handy for those who want to discredit moral authority. Then they feel justified in doing whatever they want. (contraception, abortion, euthanasia, same sex unions, etc.)

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I wasn't going to respond as I am and even in that I am curbing my sincere outrage at such claims of irreverence. I will address this as nicely as possible. Actually I will let the saints and prophets address it.

Why there is a complication within the Catholic assembly and opponents of it? It is stuff just like this. It is clear that those wolf doctrines have taken a strong hold of this assembly. And they do not spare even the flock.
Acts 20:28-30
Paul's Farewell to the Ephesians
…28Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood. 29I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.…

Clearly there is a divide.

Universalism? It is as the word clearly denotes, a collective consciousness amongst a group body that shares one spirit. So that word does not only apply to the unity of a body united in one mind in Christ. That word also reveals one body united in one mind with something else. What is that something else?As I said I will be as nice as possible. So I will let the reader decide. But I feel it my obligation to allow seekers in Christ to have the other mindset available to them if they so choose to enter the Catholic assembly. I would like to also point out, that weeds are always more numerous especially when left unchecked . The Catholic assemble is like any garden, when not attended to diligently the weeds take over and smother the good things in it. They become scarce and limited, to the point of the good fruits extinction in the garden. A weed can grow in a dung heap of the worse type of excrement of dogs. It flourishes in a garbage dump of all the worse the world can discard.

Those beautiful things require alertness and heartfelt diligence to preserve.

SAINTS STANCE :

Does the priest that celebrates in mortal sin give honor to God? As far as regards himself, he treats the Lord with the greatest dishonor that can be offered to Him, by despising Him in his own person. For by his sacrilege he appears, as far as in him lies, to defile the immaculate Lamb, Whom he immolates in the Consecrated Host. To you, O Priests, says the Lord by the Prophet Malachy, who despise My name, . . . you offer polluted bread upon My altar, and you say, wherein have we polluted Thee? “We,” says (St. Jerome), in his comment on this passage, “pollute the bread, that is, the body of Christ, when we unworthily approach the Altar.”

God cannot raise a man to a greater elevation than by conferring on him the sacerdotal dignity. How many selections must the Lord have made in calling a person to the priesthood. First, he must select him from a countless number of possible creatures. He must then separate him from so many millions of pagans and heretics, and, lastly, he must make choice of him from the immense multitude of the faithful. And what power does God confer on this man? If the Lord bestowed only on one man the power of calling down by his words the Son of God from Heaven, how great should be his obligations and his gratitude to the Lord! This power God grants to every priest. Lifting up the poor out of the dunghill, that he may place him with princes, with the princes of His people. [Ps. 62: 6]


The number of persons to whom God has given this power does not diminish the dignity or the obligations of the priesthood. But what does the priest do that celebrates in the state of sin? He dishonors and despises the Lord, by declaring that so great a Sacrifice is not deserving of the reverence which would make him dread the sacrilegious oblation of it, says St. Cyril.
“The hand,” says St. John Chrysostom, “that touches the sacred Flesh of Jesus Christ, and the tongue that is purpled with His Divine Blood, should be purer than the rays of the sun.” In another place he says “that a priest ascending the Altar should be possessed of purity and sanctity which would merit for him a place in the midst of the Angels.” How great, then, must be the horror of the Angels when they behold a priest, who is the enemy of God, stretching forth his sacrilegious hands to touch and eat the immaculate Lamb!


Still more wicked is the priest that celebrates Mass with a soul defiled by mortal sin. God turns away His eyes that He may not behold such horrible impiety.When, says the Lord, you stretch forth your hands, I will turn away My eyes, for your hands are fu// of blood. [Is. 1: 15] To express the disgust that He feels at the sight of such sacrilegious priests, the Lord declares that He will scatter the dung of their sacrifices over their faces: I will scatter upon your face the dung of your solemnities. [Mal. 2: 3]
Her priests have defiled My sanctuaries, . . . and I was profaned in the midst of them.[Ezec. 22: 26] Alas! O Lord, exclaims St. Bernard, how does it happen that some of those that hold a high place in Your Church are the first to persecute You! This is, indeed, too true, as St. Cyprian says, that a priest who celebrates Mass in the state of sin insults with his mouth and hands the very body of Christ. Another author, Peter Comestor, adds, that the priest who pronounces the words of Consecration in the state of sin spits, as it were, in the face of Jesus Christ; and when he receives the most Holy Sacrament into his unhallowed mouth he, as it were, casts the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ into the mire. But why do I say that he casts Jesus Christ into the mire? The soul of a priest in sin is worse than mire; and, as Theophilactus says, the mire is not so unworthy of receiving the Divine flesh as the heart of a sacrilegious priest. The sacrilegious priest, then, says St. Vincent Ferror, is guilty of greater impiety than if he cast the most Holy Sacrament into a sink. Such, too, is the doctrine of St. Thomas of Villanova.

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