Will the real set of Ten Commandments, please stand up!
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Find the phrase Ten Commandment in the New Testament. Already covered the fact that they were mentioned singularly in the New Testament. Do you want to go over how many of the Ten Commandments apply to Christianity? Some do, some do not. Do the list and tell me how many are good enough to be called Christ's teachings, or even apply. It will be a short list. Lets see the list.
Thou knowest the commandments*, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. (Mk 10:19)
I like this one particularly, His reference to this is as the milk of Jewish understanding not the meat of Christ's teaching. For those that read this, go read the whole chapter of Mark 10 for a better understanding. Keep in mind that He is talking to Jews. A good part of the Gospels are about talking to Jews about Judaism or trying to introduce them to Christianity. In which He relates to them, much like Paul related to the Gentiles The conversations in the Gospels are many times with Jews. The ministry to the Gentiles mostly happens later, with Paul. I edited this.
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What a silly question.. You have indulged in the logical fallacy known as the false dichotomy.
I mean the oral wisdom that Paul wrote about:
Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
You have the written Torah. That is all most Christians have. That is all some Jews had when the prophet wrote:
Jeremiah 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
You might be surprised to discover that the New Testament quotes it at times.
Actually, in other religions it is a derivative of the golden rule that accentuates the negative; wherein the golden rule of Christianity accentuates the positive.
In other religions: "Do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you" i.e. don't hit someone in the face.
Christianity: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." i.e. give of your bread to the poor.
No one said they were not commandments; but to say there are "Ten Commandments" is misleading since there's a lot more than ten. Got it?
I don't see much of a difference. What I see is that God can reveal some things to all people on the earth. The Gospel has been preached to everyone and continues to be preached.
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
The point being that the gospel is distinctly different from every other religion in the world.
Christianity: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
JBF I can always count on you to bring up good points. Several time in the Gospels, even in other books, they reference things that seem to come from the Old Testament. But if you look in your study Bible they do not not have an Old Testament reference. Not that the Golden Rule was not written somewhere but the point is that somethings mentioned in the New Testament probably came from books / manuscripts lost. Maybe one of these days we will find them in one of the Qumran caves. Thoughts?
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It can be found in its negative form from something said by Rabbi Hillel the Elder -- the great grandfather of Gamaliel Paul says was his teacher.
Rabbi Hillel Quotes on Judaism & Israel
Once there was a gentile who came before Shammai, and said to him: "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot. Shammai pushed him aside with the measuring stick he was holding. The same fellow came before Hillel, and Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it." - Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 31a
Again that is a good point. How many Old Testament stories, traditions, scriptures, do you think existed in Christ's time and thereafter as oral traditions? Or writings that made it through the Persian / Greek era and were held as sacred? Your thought on the matter?
There was a lot of material in the oral form. The Pharisees were expecting the exile and prepared for it by setting up the synagogue system and by gradually committing much of the oral tradition to written form. Some stuff got written down in the New Testament before the Jews wrote it down themselves. They were worried they might not be able to keep passing things down orally. The Talmud can be confusing at first since they often recorded debates; so you needed to know who was who.
I've found some information in the Talmud useful. For example, was Keturah a concubine or a wife?
Genesis 25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
1 Chronicles 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.
The explanation is that she was both. Keturah is another name for Hagar who was first a concubine; and then later after Sarah died, it's said that Isaac acted as peacemaker and Abraham married Keturah. A rabbi explained Chronicles to me saying the author dildn't refer to Kuturah as a wife out of respect to Sarah who was his one true wife.
Another interesting New Testament passage is the one with Nicodemus. People may think he was ignorant, but was he? Jesus said things to him that convinced him he was the Messiah. What convinced Nicodemus?
I am doing this all by memory and we can get into the scriptures if need be....Keturah becomes Abraham's concubine after Sarah dies....she is later referred to as his wife, and of coarse produces all the children that he later bless and send them on their way. Am I close? Those looking back and wanting to rosy up the past can make excuses for polygamy and concubinage, but a person's favor with God was seen in his property. God speaking through Nathan, God told David that it was He that gave him Saul's wives. 2nd Samuel 12:7-8 Truth sometimes is harsh, but anything else is misleading. I have heard it so many time...."Sure polygamy and concubinage was practiced in the Old Testament but very infrequently and only by bad people." All that is false. Nearly every notable person and certainly God's chosen champions practiced polygamy and or concubinage. It made up a good part of their culture. The Jews were always in the minority, God's promise to make them like the sand of the shores, the dust of the earth, the stars in heaven, could only happen one way....a lot of children through several wives. Women were desperate to give their husbands children, male children. The continuance of their bloodline was very important. Christians just have a hard time with the visualization of one man, one tent and five wives. It is not right by our standards and it is one of the mistake people make in judging the past by today's standards.
At the very least, a minister of the gospel is to be the husband of one wife.
Which would exclude ministers from the benefits of multiple wives in the mormon celestial heaven.
(Because I remember you being sympathetic to mormon doctrine, @Grailhunter).
Which would exclude ministers from the benefits of multiple wives in the mormon celestial heaven.
(Because I remember you being sympathetic to mormon doctrine, @Grailhunter).
I think that as the Messiah of Israel, Jesus had superior moral teaching to that of the OT law.
Therefore the purest version of the Golden Rule, as Jesus proclaimed it, is very likely not found in any old manuscripts that might be associated with the Old Testament.
If you are referencing Post #33, that was about the Old Testament.
Christian do have one wife.
And Mormons have the right to believe what they want, and so do you and I.
I fellowship with many Christians.....even you. lol That does not mean I believe what they believe.
I will only say that doctrine is important...1 Timothy 4:16.
So, if you have the wrong doctrines in your mind and heart, they will not have the same effect as sound doctrine in the mind and heart...salvation!
However in mormonism, it would seem that ministers are not as blessed as the general population; who are allowed to have multiple wives and the blessings in mormonism that go along with that.
The oral may mean that which spoken, but really what is necessary is that which is spoken by God. A person can memorize the written Bible and then recite it aloud without really knowing the Word of God. I suspect that Jews who really loved God understood that in their hearts. Christians who worship too closely the literal written words of scripture may at times find themselves in trouble with God. This will explain definitely any apparent discrepancies in that which is written, when it is only written on paper.
1st Timothy 4:14-16
Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery. Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all. Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.
How true...how true
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