Rapture in Revelation: Two Witnesses

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07-07-07

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God's two olive trees, the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth, go up in a Rapture.

Revelation 11
[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
[12] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

A thought-provoking question: are the two witnesses actually two of the seven Churches as described by Jesus earlier in Revelation? Jesus compared the Churches to candlesticks just as he described the two witnesses.

Revelation 1
[18] I [Jesus] am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
[19] Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
[20] The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

While it's unlikely, it's worth pondering. It's unlikely that the two Churches would all be in Jerusalem to be killed by the anti-messiah. In any case, there is certainly going to be a Rapture of the two witnesses.
 

101G

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GINOLJC,to all.
First thanks for the Post, second, not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. the two witness are John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus the Christ. these are the two Olive trees, the two candlesticks. consideration of reading Zechariah chapter 4.
PICJAG.
 

Keraz

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While it's unlikely, it's worth pondering. It's unlikely that the two Churches would all be in Jerusalem to be killed by the anti-messiah. In any case, there is certainly going to be a Rapture of the two witnesses.

The two Witnesses are men who will preach to those who remain in Jerusalem after the AC has conquered the Christian peoples who will be living there in the end times. Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 7:23-25 describe this event.
But all those faithful Christians who stand firm in the trust for the Lord's protection, will be taken to a place of safety; Revelation 12:14 Those who agreed to the 7 year peace treaty with the AC, Daniel 11:32-35, must remain. Revelation 12:17

Those two Witnesses will be killed, [impossible for them to be John and Jesus; will they be killed again?] then lie dead for 3 1/2 days.
This happens right at the point of the Return of Jesus, so He resurrects them along with all the martyrs of the GT. Revelation 20:4
Scripture does not say the 2W's go to heaven, it doesn't say that anyone goes to heaven, we will live on earth under the rule of King Jesus and at the end of the Millennium, God Himself will come to dwell with mankind. Revelation 21:1-7, so heaven comes to us!
 
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CovenantPromise

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OOOOH , this is an exciting thread! God sure does make our Christian lives interesting. I have heard soooo many opinions on this. I think it is good healthy theological debate. One of which is not a matter of salvation but of sincere seeking and sharing our views on this. I have an opinion to share if I may?
Who are The two witnesses? They are not Moses and Elijah as I have heard some say.
Rev. 10:8-11 is very clear, as to one (Then the voice which I had heard from heaven spoke to me again , saying, "Go, take the the scroll which is open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land." So I went to the angel and told him to give me
the little scroll; and he said to me, " Take it and eat; it will be bitter to your stomach, but sweet as honey in your
mouth." And I took the little scroll from the hand of the angel and ate it; it was sweet as honey in my mouth, but
when I had eaten it my stomach was made bitter.

And I WAS TOLD , " YOU MUST AGAIN PROPHESY ABOUT MANY PEOPLES AND NATIONS AND
TONGUES AND KINGS." Meaning: He has already prophesied to many peoples and nations and tongues and
kings through giving this Revelation he received to give to the world. Now he must again prophesy (ABOUT) meaning amongst- before- about them. The scroll was sweet in his mouth because the Word of God in utterance
is sweet but is bitter for the persecution and martyrdom it brings. St. John is the only apostle who did not expe-
rience martyrdom. He will now.
Jesus and the Beloved Apostle John21:21-23

…21When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?” 22Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain until
I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!” 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this
disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain un-
til I return, what is that to you?”…

Enoch is the other witness. TO WITNESS- meaning: to give ac-
count of those things which have already been seen. And testify AGAINST the guilty. St. John and Enoch saw the end days in their entirety and
the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. They both heard the thunders of God. Book of Enoch (the third parable)
2. And there I saw the secrets of the thunder, and how when it resounds above in the heaven, the sound thereof is heard,
Rev.10:3-
The Angel and the Small Scroll
…3Then he cried out in a loud voice like the roar of a lion. And when he cried out, the seven thunders sounded their voices. 4When the seven thunders had spoken, I was about to put it in writing. But I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.” 5Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven.…
They will speak the 7thunders.

Elijah already came- Matthew 17:10-13 And the disciples asked Him, " Then why do the scribes say that first
Elijah must come?"

He replied, " Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and
they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands."



Then the disciples understood that He was speaking to them of John the Baptist.
There is what is called" Order
of Events." Elijah could not come after Christ's first coming but had to prepare souls for His first coming.
He instituted in Christianity, a preexisting of cleansing by water established in the OC - which became the Rite of baptism. Which makes clear or straight the path of the Lord to add growth to our souls.
Blessings,
DNM.
 

Naomi25

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I'm not sure we need a lot of speculation on the subject, considering, as the OP mentioned, Revelation gives us the biggest 'clue' as to what the term 'witness' means. Especially when we read through the letters to the churches and find that there are only 2 churches that are found to be completely faithful and without fault. Coincidence? I think not! Which means, I think, that these '2 witnesses' are just the faithful church on earth at the time standing strong in faith and witness of the word in face of persecution and death. Which would also seem to fit in with the theme of the whole book, would it not?
 
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CovenantPromise

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I'm not sure we need a lot of speculation on the subject, considering, as the OP mentioned, Revelation gives us the biggest 'clue' as to what the term 'witness' means. Especially when we read through the letters to the churches and find that there are only 2 churches that are found to be completely faithful and without fault. Coincidence? I think not! Which means, I think, that these '2 witnesses' are just the faithful church on earth at the time standing strong in faith and witness of the word in face of persecution and death. Which would also seem to fit in with the theme of the whole book, would it not?
Do you think? So who is taken up at the Last trumpet- Tekiah Gedolah?
 

Earburner

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GINOLJC,to all.
First thanks for the Post, second, not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. the two witness are John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus the Christ. these are the two Olive trees, the two candlesticks. consideration of reading Zechariah chapter 4.
PICJAG.
Amen!! Of all the people in the world, only John the Baptist and Jesus were physically born with the Holy Spirit.
John bore witness of Jesus, God the Son made flesh, and Jesus bore witness of God the Father, who is a Spirit.
 
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Naomi25

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Do you think? So who is taken up at the Last trumpet- Tekiah Gedolah?

Can the Church not be witnessing upon the earth under intense persecution and then be taken up at the Last trumpet? Is that not what the Church is waiting and longing for as she IS persecuted? Even now in some places? Should that longing not grow as the extent of the persecution speads globally? Do we not see in scripture that the Church is to expect this, to endure through it and triumph over it? That Christ shall repay when he comes?
Because, regardless of whether a person believes in a Pre-trib rapture or not (which I do not), they still must content with the fact that in that time period before Christs return, there will be Christians. And any Christian is a part of Christs body; and that makes them the Church. And the Church witnesses to the truth...thats what she does.
 

CovenantPromise

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Can the Church not be witnessing upon the earth under intense persecution and then be taken up at the Last trumpet? Is that not what the Church is waiting and longing for as she IS persecuted? Even now in some places? Should that longing not grow as the extent of the persecution speads globally? Do we not see in scripture that the Church is to expect this, to endure through it and triumph over it? That Christ shall repay when he comes?
Because, regardless of whether a person believes in a Pre-trib rapture or not (which I do not), they still must content with the fact that in that time period before Christs return, there will be Christians. And any Christian is a part of Christs body; and that makes them the Church. And the Church witnesses to the truth...thats what she does.
Ok.
 

Waiting on him

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Do you think? So who is taken up at the Last trumpet- Tekiah Gedolah?
God's two olive trees, the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth, go up in a Rapture.

Revelation 11
[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
[12] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

A thought-provoking question: are the two witnesses actually two of the seven Churches as described by Jesus earlier in Revelation? Jesus compared the Churches to candlesticks just as he described the two witnesses.

Revelation 1
[18] I [Jesus] am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
[19] Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
[20] The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

While it's unlikely, it's worth pondering. It's unlikely that the two Churches would all be in Jerusalem to be killed by the anti-messiah. In any case, there is certainly going to be a Rapture of the two witnesses.
Very good observation.
 

Enoch111

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While it's unlikely, it's worth pondering. It's unlikely that the two Churches would all be in Jerusalem to be killed by the anti-messiah. In any case, there is certainly going to be a Rapture of the two witnesses.
Why have you assumed that the two witnesses in Revelation 11 are churches? There is absolutely nothing to justify that interpretation.

Those two witnesses are TWO INDIVIDUALS. More than likely Moses and Elijah sent by God to Israel during the reign of the Antichrist (for 3 1/2 years). And they are indeed killed, resurrected, and raptured.
 

Davy

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God's two olive trees, the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth, go up in a Rapture.

Revelation 11
[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
[12] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

A thought-provoking question: are the two witnesses actually two of the seven Churches as described by Jesus earlier in Revelation? Jesus compared the Churches to candlesticks just as he described the two witnesses.

Revelation 1
[18] I [Jesus] am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
[19] Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
[20] The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

While it's unlikely, it's worth pondering. It's unlikely that the two Churches would all be in Jerusalem to be killed by the anti-messiah. In any case, there is certainly going to be a Rapture of the two witnesses.

The two candlesticks are 2 particular Churches, and given as a metaphor for Christ's elect who will make a stand against the Antichrist when he comes. The other 5 candlesticks will be deceived. Jesus revealed these two faithful Churches in Rev.2 & 3. They were the only ones He had no rebuke for. They represent His very elect that cannot be tempted nor deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ.

There's plenty enough Scripture to show that Christ's faithful will be here for the time of "great tribulation" He warned His Church about for the very end. Even in Luke 21 He said for those of His in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (Luke 21:21). That should have showed you how those two Churches, i.e., candlesticks, don't have to all be in Jerusalem, but are scattered throughout the countries.

The "evil day" Apostle Paul admonished us to prepare for per Ephesians 6, having on the whole armor of God, so as to 'stand' in that day, is about the time of the "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus warned us about in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, which parallels the Seals of Revelation 6. If your Church is not teaching about those seven signs of the end our Lord Jesus gave His Church for the end of this world, then most likely you will be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ, wrongly thinking he is our Lord Jesus.
 

101G

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The two Witnesses are men who will preach to those who remain in Jerusalem after the AC has conquered the Christian peoples who will be living there in the end times. Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 7:23-25 describe this event.
But all those faithful Christians who stand firm in the trust for the Lord's protection, will be taken to a place of safety; Revelation 12:14 Those who agreed to the 7 year peace treaty with the AC, Daniel 11:32-35, must remain. Revelation 12:17

Those two Witnesses will be killed, [impossible for them to be John and Jesus; will they be killed again?] then lie dead for 3 1/2 days.
This happens right at the point of the Return of Jesus, so He resurrects them along with all the martyrs of the GT. Revelation 20:4
Scripture does not say the 2W's go to heaven, it doesn't say that anyone goes to heaven, we will live on earth under the rule of King Jesus and at the end of the Millennium, God Himself will come to dwell with mankind. Revelation 21:1-7, so heaven comes to us!
GINOLJC to all. first thanks for the reply. second, lets take each verse step by step and see if the two witness are indeed John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus the Christ.
First, the reason for the two witness, the setting, place or the time.
Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein".

The reed "LIKE" unto a Rod: this is the RULE of God, his Word, the Gospel. for the reed here is a "Pen", the written word of God. this is in reference to the great Shepherd of the sheep, the Lord Jesus the Christ who feed his people. supportive scripture, Mic 7:14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old". Gill have good commentary on this, identifying the feeder of his "scattered" people as the Christ. Now the measure of the Temple of God, which is his body the church, and the worship therein. supportive scripture, 1Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?". so the temple of God is our bodies, the chruch, the holy ones. now the worship, John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". the truth here is God word which is Holness in LOVE. the PEOPLE of God in Jerusalem is to be measure for the correct way to worship, because the scribes and the Pharisees, (those aganist Christ) now seat in Moses seat. supportive scripture, Matt 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Matt 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Matt 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Matt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
and the true "MEASURE" of God's people is in his word, "Holness". which is the LINE or Rod. supportive scripture, Ps 19:4 "Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun". which the apostle Paul attest to, see Romans 10:18. ALL of this will and in the comming verses will reveal who the two witness are.


Rev 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months".
this verse have been misunderstood way too long. the court without the Holy Ghost, measure it not, why? for it is the time of the geathering. for the jews gathering first, supportive scripture,Matt 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!",now it is given to the gentiles, John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd".

salvation has now come to the world, and it is the two witnesses who preach this restitution to all the world,the Jews first,(INNER COURT) and the gentiles (OUTER COURT).
now,"and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months". this city is clearly identified in verse 8, Jerusalem.
and it began at Jerusalem, with John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus the Christ, preaching "REPENT" for the Kingdom of God is at hand.

so the stage is set as to where, Jerusalem, (see verse 8 of Rev 11), time, the end times,(supportive scripture, 1Pet 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you), and the two of this "place", and of this "Time", in this manifestation of these times, a second witness appeared. he come in the power and spirit of Elijah,the forerunnner for him, the christ. John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 "He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light". One now can see the shaping up as to who these two witness are.

as we get into the verses later on, it will become clear as to who the two witnesses are, John the Baptist,(the Elijah to come) and the Lord Jesus the Christ himself, (the mediator of the new covenant, as Moses was mediator of the old covenant).

so you may respond to these two verses that set the stage of the two witness.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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Elijah already came- Matthew 17:10-13 And the disciples asked Him, " Then why do the scribes say that first
Elijah must come?"

He replied, " Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and
they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands."
BINGO, the one who had alread come is John the Baptistin the Spirit and power of Elijah.
Matt 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Matt 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Matt 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not,but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Matt 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

there it is, the Elijah to come is John the Baptist, one of the two witness, and the other himself, the Lord Jesus, as he said,"but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them".
PICJAG.
.
 

101G

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Amen!! Of all the people in the world, only John the Baptist and Jesus were physically born with the Holy Spirit.
John bore witness of Jesus, God the Son made flesh, and Jesus bore witness of God the Father, who is a Spirit.
THANK YOU. these were the ONLY two men who was "alive" to God, meaning they was "BORN" with the Spirit. because DEAD men cannot WITNESS, there two was "alive" to God.
again Thank you, you're on point.
PICJAG.
 

101G

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Why have you assumed that the two witnesses in Revelation 11 are churches? There is absolutely nothing to justify that interpretation.

Those two witnesses are TWO INDIVIDUALS. More than likely Moses and Elijah sent by God to Israel during the reign of the Antichrist (for 3 1/2 years). And they are indeed killed, resurrected, and raptured.
Yes, the two witnesses are two individuals, but not Moses and Elijah, which are symbols for the two witness. Moses for the Lord Jesus, and John the Baptist symbolic for Elijah. only thing to do is compare the two.

The Lord Jesus and Moses.
Here are some compiled similarities between the Lord Jesus the Christ and the prophet Moses.
1. both have a close relationship with God. Moses a face to face Physical (human) meeting. Jesus a
Spiritual Face to face. John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the
bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

2. both were ordained by God to deliver his people from bondage. Moses Physical bondage, the Lord Jesus
Spiritual bondage

3.both Moses and the Lord Jesus were saved from certain death when they were small children, while most
other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered.

4.both the Lord Jesus and Moses refused the possibility to become rulers in their age. Satan offered Jesus the
rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die
for the sake of the people of the world. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal
family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently. he suffered for the people sake.

5.both the Lord Jesus and Moses were "called out of Egypt".

6.both Moses and the Lord Jesus interceded for Israel, not allowing the destruction of the nation

7.both the Lord Jesus and Moses "mediated" between Israel, (now the church), and the true God.

8.both the Lord Jesus and Moses were Lawgivers. Moses the carnal Law of Stone. Jesus the Spiritual Law of the
heart.

9.both had water connections. The Nile (water) into blood/red. Water into wine/red

10.both died, and no man knows where their GRAVE are.

11.both had mother who was not their biological mothers.

12.both talked to God on mountains tops.

this is just a few, their are many more.

John the Baptist is clearly seen in the scriptures as the Elijah to come,
Scripture: Luke 1:11 "And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". this is backed up in Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse".
this is plain as day. the scriptures clearly identifies John as the Elijah to Come in spirit and power. By now one should have the understanding of who the two witness are.

PICJAG.
 

Davy

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The two witnesses have to be two flesh born men that have not yet ever died. Moses did die, as God buried his body and in Jude 1:9 we are shown Michael contended against the devil over the body of Moses.

Rev.11:9 says the nations will see their dead bodies lay in the street of Jerusalem for three days and a half. Why do you think the synagogue of Satan in Jerusalem would do that? Will it be to show them off to the world as a trophy or something? I don't think so.

Do you remember when Jesus told the Pharisees that if they destroyed the temple of His body, He would raise it up in three days? (John 2:19)

After Jesus' body was transfigured and not found, the Pharisees had to make up a lie to try and prove He hadn't done what He said. They even put guards at His tomb to make sure His disciples wouldn't steal His body.

The fact that Rev.11 shows all nations will see the dead bodies of the two witnesses suggests a technology that will allow that to really happen. What tech would that be? Satellite technology, a TV signal going out to all nations. It's suggesting the Jews in Jerusalem are going to put cameras on the dead bodies of the two witnesses for all the world to see.
 

101G

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The fact that Rev.11 shows all nations will see the dead bodies of the two witnesses suggests a technology that will allow that to really happen.
Not necessary so. consider this, Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven". so as here, on the day of pentecost, as was of the Crucifixion, scripture many was in or near to see or hear of it,
Luke 24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
Luke 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luke 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
Luke 24:17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
Luke 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?".
so the Crucifixion of the Christ was well known, in today's term, one must have been at the north pole not to hear about it.

PICJAG.
 

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Not necessary so. consider this, Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven". so as here, on the day of pentecost, as was of the Crucifixion, scripture many was in or near to see or hear of it,
Luke 24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
Luke 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luke 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
Luke 24:17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
Luke 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?".
so the Crucifixion of the Christ was well known, in today's term, one must have been at the north pole not to hear about it.

PICJAG.

The parallel in Rev.11 to the cloven tongue is when the two witnesses in Rev.11 are still alive... I was not referring to that. I was referring to this...

Rev 11:9
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

KJV

Sorry, we cannot just dump that idea there of the nations 'seeing' the dead bodies of the witnesses in Jerusalem. The Greek word there for 'see' is definitely literal, not metaphorical.

The type of interpretation your giving is common among those who have listened to too many preachers that mis-teach symbology and metaphor that's written in God's Word. Just because some Scripture supplies a metaphor or symbol doesn't mean we can just slap that idea anywhere we want. An example would be the days for years idea, which only applies to Scripture prophecy where it was given (like Ezek.4). Some try to slap that idea on a lot of other Scriptures where it was not given.
 

101G

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The parallel in Rev.11 to the cloven tongue is when the two witnesses in Rev.11 are still alive... I was not referring to that. I was referring to this...

Rev 11:9
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

KJV

Sorry, we cannot just dump that idea there of the nations 'seeing' the dead bodies of the witnesses in Jerusalem. The Greek word there for 'see' is definitely literal, not metaphorical.

The type of interpretation your giving is common among those who have listened to too many preachers that mis-teach symbology and metaphor that's written in God's Word. Just because some Scripture supplies a metaphor or symbol doesn't mean we can just slap that idea anywhere we want. An example would be the days for years idea, which only applies to Scripture prophecy where it was given (like Ezek.4). Some try to slap that idea on a lot of other Scriptures where it was not given.
no need to dump anything, just understand the scriptures. Rev 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves". as given of acts chapter 2, that covered this scripture above. Jerusalem was on an international trade route, so the enemies of the peoples, and kinfolk, diverse tongues of nations was in Jerusalem, even one who helped carry our Lord cross was of another nation. so we still stand on the scriptures. this is no metaphor, nor symbolism.

PICJAG.
 
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