Freemasonry

Jane_Doe22 said:

It's all good! The same thing happens to be frequently.

You're totally good- I'm very happy address any questions and set the record straight.

First, I'll address a common myth here: I don't belong to the church of Joseph Smith. I do not worship Joseph Smith. I am not led by Joseph Smith. My beliefs are not decimated by Joseph Smith. No. Just no. I am a disciple of Christ. I do believe that Joseph Smith was a flawed servant of God, but he was still a flawed sinful man (as are all men) and remotely a focus of my discipleship.

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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were, nor did I think so. My curiousity was more of how what Joseph Smith started ended up to where LDS is today, as far as the principles of Mormonism (via the book of Mormon).

Jane_Doe22 said:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints isn't a Protestant Church. Nor is it directly tied to the Protestant Reformation, with the through process of protesting Catholic doctrines and reforming them. Rather, it see itself as a restoration of Christ's Church: a restoring of Truth from On High. So it's not Protestant, nor Catholic, and has some important theological disagreements with both. But the most important thing-- that which defines a Christian -- is accepting and celebrating Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. To that, I shout "AMEN!!" with all of my Protestant Christian and Catholic Christian brethren.

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Thanks for the information. I guess I always categorized Christianity into two or three main groups: Orthodox/Catholic (possibly split), Protestant, and non-denominational.

From the quick research I just did, it appears that there's another category/branch, the "restorationists", in which Mormon, LDS, and SDA are grouped to (or possibly one of those or all three, or whatever combo). I'm not saying the sources are right, or wrong.

I guess this is a question that depends on who you ask. To some/most Catholics, there's them, and everyone else. To Orthodox, it could be the same as Catholics. To LDS, as you just stated, there's you and Catholics and Protestants. To non-denoms, there's us, and everyone else. lol.

I'm non-denominational myself, so the rest of ya'll are whack yo ( only kidding here).

Thankfully, as you stated, it is all about accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, so we'll all be there in His Kingdom together.

Jane_Doe22 said:

Cause they really aren't, despite what some axe-grinders would claim.

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Enoch111 said:

I was implying nothing. You had some harsh things to say about Willie, but he is one of the good guys. We may not agree on everything, but he is a brother in Christ.

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I know a woman I'll call Kate who was always nice to me - treated me like gold. Kate was NOT nice to my friend Sue - Kate wanted Sue's husband and did some mighty mean things to sue. So could I make the blanket statement that Kate is one of the good gals and that statement be the truth? The truth is often more complicated Enoch.

A "brother in Christ" in a church we attended one time cheated everyone he could in his business dealings. Our pastor told us that "brother in Christ" was such a troublemaker that he and his family hurt so many people at a church they used to be in that there are people who refuse to step into a church today. Anyone who has been a Christian long enough knows that a "Brother in Christ" can commit as venal a sin as an unbeliever.

I don't recall exactly what happened in the thread - I'm a voracious reader and sometimes forget - but I said that I regretted the careless things I said about Willie - it was based on the abusive way that he has gotten with me and another person on here in the past and it appeared he was being abusive to 4Jesus. I blocked Willie months back and cannot read his posts, but it looked as if he was being abusive to 4Jesus and I advised him to block Willie if he was mistreating him which is appropriate advice and I stand by it. I regret that I did not take the time to compose my words thoughtfully so as not to hurt Willie. I do not want to hurt anyone, but at the same time I'm not going to stay quiet if he hurts another. You made a moral judgment about my remarks to Willie - yet why do you not have a moral rebuke of the way that Willie is treating 4Jesus?

James 2:9-13 King James Version (KJV)
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

You don't know everything that has been said on every thread on here and you have to be careful involving yourself when you don't know all the facts.

"He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears." - Proverbs 26:17

However, I do think that we should speak up when we think another is being treated unfairly - if they don't self-correct first; which I did; we just have to be careful because there is sometimes a backstory that you know nothing about.

And Enoch - I think you may want to read through the last posts. I believe that you insulted Jane_Doe.

Proverbs 17:9

“He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.”

My heart's desire is that all true believers should be able to share their ideas freely without being insulted - which hasn't always happened on here. If someone wants respect they have to give respect. I never want to hurt anyone - if there was ever a time for Christians to unite for the good of the country it's now. I think that this country is facing the worst falling away that I've ever seen in my lifetime and I believe that we each have to use the talents that God has given us to try to make this world a better place for this next generation. I follow many news sources and have a decent grasp on what's going on in this country and it's very concerning. Hollywood is completely given over to evil and they're making a bid for the young.

Remember that one lone woman, Madelyn Murray O'Hare was able to take prayer out of every school in America. If one lone woman could do that much destruction, then what GOOD could each of us do if we tried? Much more than we're doing now. I think Christians have grown complacent - just like they were when one woman had prayer taken out of schools. I just read where the ten commandments were put on display in some city. Near us in the country is a large 10 commandments plaque made of stone, sitting on the edge of a cemetery. Every time we pass it I get such a sense of God - a sense of holiness.

What about you - can you have the ten commandments placed in your city? There are endless ideas of how we can further God's kingdom on this earth if we tried. The possibilities are limitless.

Enoch111 said:

Enough to know that Freemasonry has nothing in common with the Gospel of Christ and is occultic to the core. In fact you could call it Satanist.

'To occultists it is Lucifer who brings this enlightenment as is seen in Albert Pike’s statement. “Lucifer, the Light-Bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! (Albert Pike, Morals And Dogma, The Supreme Council of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, 1871, p. 321).'

'David Carrico exposed, “Eliphas Levi became a Freemason on 13 March 1861 and authored many books that have become classics in occult literature. …but the information we are dwelling on here is the Luciferian doctrine that Levi passed on to another Freemason of great repute, Albert Pike. (David Carrico, “Freemasonry and the Twentieth Century Occult Revival,” The Dark Side of Freemasonry, edited by Ed Decker, Huntington House Publishers, 1994, p. 209)'

The Roots of Freemasonry: Satanism and Occultism | Truth Watchers

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I have not read too in-depth about it - although I have read extensively about the hand signals they use, but I also know that it is occult. I've read that some on the lower levels don't know what it's really about in the upper tiers and if the draw in the unwary who believe it's harmless. I'm not sure if Skull and Bones is associated with Freemasonry or not. Professor Veith's video is very in-depth and there are so many organizations that are linked that I'm not sure exactly where Freemasonry fits in.

What I do know is that America is fast slipping into a non-Christian nation and I believe that we are in a war and that we need to take it seriously and do our part.

I have a sense that God wants us to discuss this for some reason. Sometimes I can sense His Spirit and I sense it now - I don't know why yet.

4Jesus said:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were, nor did I think so.

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No need to be sorry-- you weren't implying that at all. You've been nothing but a great Christian during this conversation. I just addressed it because it is a common FAQ, and I feel it's better just to get it out of the way.

4Jesus said:

My curiousity was more of how what Joseph Smith started ended up to where LDS is today, as far as the principles of Mormonism (via the book of Mormon).

Thanks for the information. I guess I always categorized Christianity into two or three main groups: Orthodox/Catholic (possibly split), Protestant, and non-denominational.

From the quick research I just did, it appears that there's another category/branch, the "restorationists", in which Mormon, LDS, and SDA are grouped to (or possibly one of those or all three, or whatever combo). I'm not saying the sources are right, or wrong.

I guess this is a question that depends on who you ask. To some/most Catholics, there's them, and everyone else. To Orthodox, it could be the same as Catholics. To LDS, as you just stated, there's you and Catholics and Protestants. To non-denoms, there's us, and everyone else. lol.

I'm non-denominational myself, so the rest of ya'll are whack yo ( only kidding here).

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Your previous 3-way split is a pretty common idea, but there are indeed more branches than that-- your info is accurate. I find that people just don't think of other groups they don't encounter frequently-- that's just human nature.

4Jesus said:

Thankfully, as you stated, it is all about accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, so we'll all be there in His Kingdom together.

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Amen!

@Soverign Grace You asked me to comment on your quote from Brian Wilson's article and relationship between America and the book of Revelation. Very few people believe America is even mentioned in prophecy. Despite its world-wide influence, its religious underpinnings, and her clear involvement in world politics for over 200 years, it is believed by most Christians that there is no mention or suggestion or reference to your nation in scripture. I view this blindness similar to the dystopia mentioned by Wilson in the article. It is a blindness , a wilful blindness of a culture and people who would rather not admit that their beloved country could possibly be as the Bible describes.
Since the 1840s my church has consistently taught that indeed the US is mentioned in prophecy, and is about to play a hugely significant role in end-time global politics, fulfilling several chapters in Revelation. Of course, such an understanding of prophecy comes from an historicist hermeneutic and not futurist, which puts our perspective immediately in contrast with the current popular teachings on prophecy.
What I am surprised at, or maybe not surprised considering the depth of humility one must attain to face up to what the article itself describes and suggests, is the lack of comment since you posted it. One from Willie that simply referenced in an off-hand way the length, and a thinly veiled rebuke to you personally. But as Wilson said, this isn't just an American issue. I'm from New Zealand, and we have our own history of British colonialism that warred with the Maori for similar reasons to the war in your own nation against the American indigenous. I am now living in Australia and am acutely aware of this nation's own abysmal history in it's treatment of the Aborigines here. Wilson could have mentioned the US takeover of Hawaii...surprised he left that out.
But as for prophecy. I could go into much detail, but will for the sake of this thread and not wanting to veer away too much from the Freemason OP, offer a simple general outline. In Revelation 13 are mentioned two beasts. The first we recognise as Catholicism. A union of church and state, and a composite of empires from which the RCC inherited many of their characteristics, having grown out of pagan Rome. There is also an intimate connection here to the 7th chapter of Daniel and the 4th beast...the first beast of Revelation 13 is a mature grown up version of the little horn which grew among the ten others of the 4th beast. Those 7 surviving horns formed the foundation of modern Europe...the church/state entity of Catholicism growing up among them.
The second beast in Revelation 13 is described as rising at the time of the decline of the first beast. The Catholic church lost its civil power in 1798 when France took the pope captive and disbanded the college of cardinals declaring the papal states a republic. The Catholic church from that time was just that...a church. Not a state. This was the beast's 'mortal wound', from which she recovered when in 1929 Mussolini restored the civil power granting the church the Vatican city and independent civil power. The wound was healed. But at this same time, the second beast rose. It was at thios same time the Constitution was signed...the bill of rights established...the declaration of independence made, and the United States formerly became an independent nation...ironically, France was the first nation to recognise the US...in 1778. Revelation describes this beast as having two horns as a lamb. Just like the Bison. Horns are symbols of power...small innocent horns such a lambs we believe represent the founding father's intent to create a nation distinct from its European roots...a nation with no king and no pope. As Wilsom suggests however, this idea was short lived, and was used as a pretence for enrichment of a select few in marked contradiction to the intent of the constitution and bill of rights. Revelation also says that while this beast displays and claims innocence, she in fact speaks as dragon. Si in appearance she is innocent and lamb-like, even professing to be Christian (Lamb-like) she acts in ways that totally denies that profession...as Wilson's article profoundly reveals.
That beast/nation/US would then recommend to its people (thus a democratic system) that they, the people, should make an image of the first beast, the church/state union of the Papacy. This of course would be a Protestant union of church and state. Despite it being a direct denial of the constitution. Which of course by then is not an uncommon theme in American political maneuverings. As a church/state union in its own right, she will then enact oppressive religious laws that become global in their scope and power...and lets face it, the US with its now global military impact is the only nation capable of pulling this off.

4Jesus said:

That above list is pretty blatant; it's not subtle in the least. Especially with the bowing to statues and praying to, how can they not see that as worship? Unless the don't care of course.

Interestingly, Mary's husband Joseph, Jesus' adoptive human dad, has been mostly overlooked for what he did

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Hello 4Jesus,

We do not pray to statues.

We offer latria, that is the worship properly due to God, to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit alone.

Oh and Joseph is certainly not overlooked. In fact he was instrumental in the walk of Br. Andre: Saint Brother André - L'Oratoire Saint-Joseph du Mont-Royal

As to the subject of the thread;
There's a reason joining the masons automatically excommunicates one from the Church.

Peace be with you!

Philip James said:

Hello 4Jesus,

We do not pray to statues.

We offer latria, that is the worship properly due to God, to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit alone.

Oh and Joseph is certainly not overlooked. In fact he was instrumental in the walk of Br. Andre: Saint Brother André - L'Oratoire Saint-Joseph du Mont-Royal

As to the subject of the thread;
There's a reason joining the masons automatically excommunicates one from the Church.

Peace be with you!

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Hi Philip James,

That was a mistype: I should've added "her" after the "praying to". I differentiated the bowing to statues of Mary and praying to her, in earlier posts: in post #103, and earlier in the post you quoted (post #120).

Just to be clear, I don't think that anyone in Catholicism prays to a statue. I have heard of people praying to Mary however.

Since you're obviously of the Catholic branch of Christianity, if you don't mind my question here: how is bowing to statues of Mary and praying to Mary not worshipping her?

Regarding Joseph, I meant in comparison to Mary - Joseph doesn't get the amount of statues and paintings that Mary does; maybe he does, but most of the statues are buried

aspen said:

What is it?
Is it compatible with Christianity?

Go forth and discuss!

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It is not compatible. Secretive societies are not of God. God's MO is one of transparency.

brakelite said:

@Soverign Grace You asked me to comment on your quote from Brian Wilson's article and relationship between America and the book of Revelation. Very few people believe America is even mentioned in prophecy. Despite its world-wide influence, its religious underpinnings, and her clear involvement in world politics for over 200 years, it is believed by most Christians that there is no mention or suggestion or reference to your nation in scripture. I view this blindness similar to the dystopia mentioned by Wilson in the article. It is a blindness , a wilful blindness of a culture and people who would rather not admit that their beloved country could possibly be as the Bible describes.
Since the 1840s my church has consistently taught that indeed the US is mentioned in prophecy, and is about to play a hugely significant role in end-time global politics, fulfilling several chapters in Revelation. Of course, such an understanding of prophecy comes from an historicist hermeneutic and not futurist, which puts our perspective immediately in contrast with the current popular teachings on prophecy.
What I am surprised at, or maybe not surprised considering the depth of humility one must attain to face up to what the article itself describes and suggests, is the lack of comment since you posted it. One from Willie that simply referenced in an off-hand way the length, and a thinly veiled rebuke to you personally. But as Wilson said, this isn't just an American issue. I'm from New Zealand, and we have our own history of British colonialism that warred with the Maori for similar reasons to the war in your own nation against the American indigenous. I am now living in Australia and am acutely aware of this nation's own abysmal history in it's treatment of the Aborigines here. Wilson could have mentioned the US takeover of Hawaii...surprised he left that out.
But as for prophecy. I could go into much detail, but will for the sake of this thread and not wanting to veer away too much from the Freemason OP, offer a simple general outline. In Revelation 13 are mentioned two beasts. The first we recognise as Catholicism. A union of church and state, and a composite of empires from which the RCC inherited many of their characteristics, having grown out of pagan Rome. There is also an intimate connection here to the 7th chapter of Daniel and the 4th beast...the first beast of Revelation 13 is a mature grown up version of the little horn which grew among the ten others of the 4th beast. Those 7 surviving horns formed the foundation of modern Europe...the church/state entity of Catholicism growing up among them.
The second beast in Revelation 13 is described as rising at the time of the decline of the first beast. The Catholic church lost its civil power in 1798 when France took the pope captive and disbanded the college of cardinals declaring the papal states a republic. The Catholic church from that time was just that...a church. Not a state. This was the beast's 'mortal wound', from which she recovered when in 1929 Mussolini restored the civil power granting the church the Vatican city and independent civil power. The wound was healed. But at this same time, the second beast rose. It was at thios same time the Constitution was signed...the bill of rights established...the declaration of independence made, and the United States formerly became an independent nation...ironically, France was the first nation to recognise the US...in 1778. Revelation describes this beast as having two horns as a lamb. Just like the Bison. Horns are symbols of power...small innocent horns such a lambs we believe represent the founding father's intent to create a nation distinct from its European roots...a nation with no king and no pope. As Wilsom suggests however, this idea was short lived, and was used as a pretence for enrichment of a select few in marked contradiction to the intent of the constitution and bill of rights. Revelation also says that while this beast displays and claims innocence, she in fact speaks as dragon. Si in appearance she is innocent and lamb-like, even professing to be Christian (Lamb-like) she acts in ways that totally denies that profession...as Wilson's article profoundly reveals.
That beast/nation/US would then recommend to its people (thus a democratic system) that they, the people, should make an image of the first beast, the church/state union of the Papacy. This of course would be a Protestant union of church and state. Despite it being a direct denial of the constitution. Which of course by then is not an uncommon theme in American political maneuverings. As a church/state union in its own right, she will then enact oppressive religious laws that become global in their scope and power...and lets face it, the US with its now global military impact is the only nation capable of pulling this off.

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Brakelite - thanks for confirming this. I do believe there is willful blindness and I believe what you have described is true about prophecy regarding the Catholic Church and America. It fits.

Heart2Soul said:

Why are you even wasting your time on these threads that are void of any fruits of the Holy Spirit? And which seem to always end up in a huge debate of striving against one another.
Your wisdom is better put to use on fruitful topics such as scripture.

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Heart2Soul, do you agree that the information listed in this thread could be considered by some as enough evidence to expose one or more of the devil's snares?

Isn't exposing the devil's snares so others won't fall victim to him/them as fruitful?

2 Timothy 2:26 "And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."

It is telling if helping our brothers and sisters in Christ is met with huge debate instead of just skipping a/the posts. But debate can be good and fruitful, if it doesn't devolve into personal attacks, no?

brakelite said:

How much evidence does one need before the theory part of conspiracy is discarded? I think there is sufficient information, enough testimonies from former Masons, sufficient statements from other occultists such as Blavatsky, Pike etc to form a credible conclusion that the higher echelons of Freemasonry are indeed Luciferian, have a certain amount of control and influence over government, have intimate connections to other secret societies, and are working tirelessly for a single global governance through the United nations.
There are other organisations more influential than the Freemasons however, and who have similar goals but from different worldviews, but are even more secretive and hidden. Others are more open and well known, and there are certain high powered members who cross over those groups forming a semi cohesive united entity working for the same goals. There is enough evidence around to cure to a logical conclusion that Satan is very much in charge of this world... Which is why we are not to be a part of it. God of course is sovereign over all, but limits His powers because He is not into reforming the world, but keeping us away from its influence and power. Keeping us separate. Why is why He says, come out of her. You are in the world, but don't become a part of the world. My people are to be different.
So there are innumerable conspiracies. And most of them are linked to one another through common administrators. Freemasons, while important, are not the ultimate power behind the global initiatives for world dominion and the removal of national sovereignty. They, along with Bilderbergers, Bohemian Grove, skull and bones etc etc, are just the front which the powers that be are quite happy for you to discuss and hate and cast your suspicions toward. Add to that Zionism, communism, socialism and all the other political isms. All of them have higher and lower echelons of governance... The one they show to be public and harmless... That the commo people are permitted to enter and enjoy certain benefits... The goyim... But they all also have higher levels of those who are the real movers and shakers of this world. The ones like Soros and the Rothschilds, the Rockefeller's etc etc. And what they have in common is their links to their priests. Thought pagan history the kings of the earth were guided by their priests. That has not changed. But the priests have. And today priests have also changed their guises, and their goals are no longer local and tribal... They are global and encompass all humanity... Just as you would expect immediately before the second coming of Christ. Satan is setting up his kingdom knowing that his time is short. That there are conspiracies that are created to accomplish these goals ought not be a surprise to anyone.
Oh, and by the way, if you want to know who these priests are, look no further than the Jesuits. If you think the Vatican is sitting idly by allowing the secular world through communism or capitalism to take over their own global dreams of hegemony, you are sadly greatly deluded.

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It's encouraging to see someone who knows about this and how it all dovetails with Revelations. God has brought me into a study of Revelations and dhow this all fits with what I'm seeing happen all around us.

The individuals behind this would be more than happy if Christians dismissed their fellow Christians for believing in a "conspiracy theory" even as they implement their sinister plans.

I keep going back to the warning that JFK gave us right before he was assassinated. He obviously knew secret societies aren't "conspiracy theories."

4Jesus said:

how is bowing to statues of Mary and praying to Mary

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Are you familiar with the terms latria and dulia?

One refers to the honour properly given to men, the other the adoration due to God alone.

This discussion will derail this thread, so send me a pm or start another if you wish to discuss it further.

Peace!

Heart2Soul said:

Why are you even wasting your time on these threads that are void of any fruits of the Holy Spirit? And which seem to always end up in a huge debate of striving against one another.
Your wisdom is better put to use on fruitful topics such as scripture.

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The scripture in your avatar, Ephesians 6, states to "take your stand against the devil's schemes". If Freemasonic teachings are one of the devil's schemes, couldn't this forum and disucssion be considered part of taking a stand?

Grailhunter said:

Soverign Grace
Do you think I do not consider these things. Bush was / is Skull and Bones. The world is full of those that would like to control. Why things happen are usually different than what the public is going to know. But we know more about things than in years gone by. Putting the puzzle together is fun...my point is do not make it an obsession.

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Yes Bush was Skull and Bones - as were many others. The internet has opened up a lot to us that we previously didn't have. I agree that putting puzzles together is fun - I actually enjoy research and finding clues and seeing where they lead me. I think there is some gumshoe in my family history. I would have loved to have been a detective - but those days are behind me now so I'm enjoying this. But I also want to share what I learn because if you learn about Agenda 21 you'll see it being implemented and like the Titanic, people won't know the real evil that is hidden below until it is upon us.

Philip James said:

Are you familiar with the terms latria and dulia?

One refers to the honour properly given to men, the other the adoration due to God alone.

This discussion will derail this thread, so send me a pm or start another if you wish to discuss it further.

Peace!

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I think the "honour" given to men has crossed-over to worship when it involves bowing to statues of that being and praying to that being.

No thanks on sending you a pm or starting another thread...

Heart2Soul said:

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 2 - New King James Version
Let's include the entire teaching...

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Yeah, and?

You redirected the questions I asked you. Would you mind please answering the questions I posed, even simple answers would be appreciated.