The Real Jesus

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Johan

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God is our Father. And our Creator. He creates by His Word. We are created by the Word of Jesus to be the Child or the Son. If Jesus is the Word then who is the Real Son?
 

Windmillcharge

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God is our Father. And our Creator. He creates by His Word. We are created by the Word of Jesus to be the Child or the Son. If Jesus is the Word then who is the Real Son?

Please supply your evidence or reasoning that shows that only one title or name can be used bu Jesus.

Jesus is God the Son, part of the triune God.
He is also the 'logos' the word, the Lamb of God, the second Adam and many other titles that I cannot remember.

We are not created to be 'the child/son' but are adopted into God's family.
 
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amadeus

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God is our Father. And our Creator. He creates by His Word. We are created by the Word of Jesus to be the Child or the Son. If Jesus is the Word then who is the Real Son?
A couple of questions you might consider is 1) What is Real to God?... and 2) What is a Son to God? How does His understanding differ from that of carnal men?
 
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Enoch111

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God is our Father. And our Creator. He creates by His Word. We are created by the Word of Jesus to be the Child or the Son. If Jesus is the Word then who is the Real Son?
Jesus is both the Word and the Son, and also the Creator. You seem to be thoroughly confused.
 
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Johan

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Jesus is both the Word and the Son, and also the Creator. You seem to be thoroughly confused.

Ok. Let us talk about it.

God is the Creator. And He creates by The Word He speaks.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.*n1
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Seems to me God is the Creator.

Isaiah 40
28 ¶Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, theLord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there isno searching of his understanding.

But you think Jesus is the Creator?
 

Johan

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Please supply your evidence or reasoning that shows that only one title or name can be used bu Jesus. Jesus is God the Son, part of the triune God.

The Life of the Word was God that became our Father.
John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

He is also the 'logos' the word,

Yep. I agree. He is the Word of God.
John 1
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

the Lamb of God, the second Adam and many other titles that I cannot remember.

This was the Creator that became our Father.
John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

We are not created to be 'the child/son' but are adopted into God's family.

Actually we are born of God. As only a Birth by our Father can make us a True Son of God.
John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 

Johan

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A couple of questions you might consider is 1) What is Real to God?... and 2) What is a Son to God? How does His understanding differ from that of carnal men?

God is the Creator of life on planet earth. And in that He gave us exact meaning to what He mean with these concepts. A Son of God can only be Someone that are born of Him and His Wife. Only Parents can give birth to Children. But by the absence of the Wife God used His Gifts. This situation is corrected in these last days. With the Wife in the picture She is giving the actual birth of the Son or the Child.

Gal. 4
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus is God (John 1:1), so yes He is the Creator (John 1:3, Ephesians 3:9 (kjv), Colossians 1:16 (kjv)). (see also Isaiah 44:24 (kjv)).
 
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justbyfaith

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Jesus did not ever become God. God the Father became God the Son (John 1:14, Isaiah 9:6)).

Therefore, Jesus was God from the moment of His conception.
 
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Enoch111

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But you think Jesus is the Creator?
It is not what I think but what has been revealed in Scripture. While there is no doubt that the triune Godhead was involved, Jesus is clearly desiginated as the Creator.

JESUS WHO IS THE WORD IS THE CREATOR
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4)

JESUS THE IMAGE OF GOD IS THE CREATOR
15 [Christ] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn [pre-eminent] of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Colossians 1:15-17)

HEBREWS 1 -- JESUS WHO IS GOD IS THE CREATOR
8 But unto the Son [Christ] he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
 
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Enoch111

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Jesus did not ever become God. God the Father became God the Son
How can the Father become the Son and the Son become the Father? Could that be true for you or anyone else? That would be absurd.

God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
 

Nancy

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Ok. Let us talk about it.

God is the Creator. And He creates by The Word He speaks.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.*n1
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Seems to me God is the Creator.

Isaiah 40
28 ¶Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, theLord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there isno searching of his understanding.

But you think Jesus is the Creator?

God spoke everything into existence...HIS WORD...who is The Word of God? Well, Jesus Christ is The Word. NOTHING in His creation was created without His WORD (Jesus Christ) If you have seen/known Jesus then you also know the Father...they are inseparable.
I once read something on here that intrigued me, somebody posted about Jesus not knowing: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." The poster suggested that the reason that the Son does not know the day or hour is because God The Father has not "spoken" it yet.
 
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Nancy

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It is not what I think but what has been revealed in Scripture. While there is no doubt that the triune Godhead was involved, Jesus is clearly desiginated as the Creator.

JESUS WHO IS THE WORD IS THE CREATOR
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4)

JESUS THE IMAGE OF GOD IS THE CREATOR
15 [Christ] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn [pre-eminent] of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Colossians 1:15-17)

HEBREWS 1 -- JESUS WHO IS GOD IS THE CREATOR
8 But unto the Son [Christ] he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Great verses...how can anyone not see this??
 
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amadeus

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God spoke everything into existence...HIS WORD...who is The Word of God? Well, Jesus Christ is The Word. NOTHING in His creation was created without His WORD (Jesus Christ) If you have seen/known Jesus then you also know the Father...they are inseparable.
I once read something on here that intrigued me, somebody posted about Jesus not knowing: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." The poster suggested that the reason that the Son does not know the day or hour is because God The Father has not "spoken" it yet.
Interesting! Jesus is the Word of God only to the extent God has spoken. What He has not spoken is not yet the Word and therefore is not yet part of Jesus. Wrapping one's head around that without God's help is nigh onto impossible... but then again:

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" Mark 10:27
 
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justbyfaith

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How can the Father become the Son and the Son become the Father? Could that be true for you or anyone else? That would be absurd.

God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
No...the Son did not become the Father...but the Father did become flesh and dwelt among us.

It was not 1/3 of God who descended to become a Man. And it was also not a 2nd God who descended.

What is the definition of the Son of God but that He is God come in human flesh?
 

Enoch111

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No...the Son did not become the Father...but the Father did become flesh and dwelt among us.
You continue to be confused in spite of everything. Let's hope you do not confuse others.

Confucius say: Those who are confused love their confusion.
 

justbyfaith

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You continue to be confused in spite of everything. Let's hope you do not confuse others.

Confucius say: Those who are confused love their confusion.
I am not confused in the slightest...but Isaiah 9:6 proclaims clearly what I am trying to say...that Jesus' Name (the name of the son that was given) is among other things the everlasting Father.

So either Jesus became the Father or else He was the Father from the beginning of His life; and I choose to believe the latter; as the former has been determined to be heresy by most biblical scholars.

If you examine John 14:7-11 very closely, I believe that you will also see that Jesus, in His Spirit, is the Father.

Jhn 14:7, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8, Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11, Believe me that
I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
 

justbyfaith

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Confucius say: Those who are confused love their confusion.
Suddenly Confucius has a say in what is believed by Christians.

I suppose there should be a book in the Bible called, "The epistle of Confucius to the church of Jesus Christ"!

Last time I checked, Jesus said, that, "All who ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." John 10:8
 

amadeus

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Then Jesus would not be fully God.

I think that we should refrain from speculating about things we know nothing about.

Should we refrain from search for God's truth? We should not presume that we already have it for there is a danger in that some part of what we hold as valid is part of our own delusion. The continuing open and honest search with God for His truth should keep us from going into or staying in such a delusion.

In response to your declaration I might then want to ask what is the definition of God? All knowing? Conside the verse to which our sister @Nancy alluded:


"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matt 24:36

Did Jesus also speak of himself as being among unknowing men? Is he not less than his Father?

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28

What is the truth which we seek?

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6


How well do we know the truth? Can we love the truth without fully knowing it?
 
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