Freemasonry

Enoch111 said:

Since Wikipedia has given us details (which can be verified from quoted sources), all you have have to support your fantasies is speculation. Therefore it would be a waste of time trying to show you that you have been misled.

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Enoch - I think it's unchristian to accuse someone of having "fantasies" - and it's telling that the unchristian Willie 'likes' your post. I tried being nice to him but he lurks until another says something unchristian and then he jumps on it to join in the wrongdoing. And it IS wrongdoing. "Though hand join hand the wicked shall not go unpunished." This is disgusting and SINFUL. Enough people on here have told him of his behavior but he just does not change. I truly feel sorry for him. There is something within him that is wrong.

I have found that I agree with you on many points on Scripture - there are certain people on here whose posts I look for because I believe that they have really studied their bibles, and I think that you have. So have I. But I think that we step into danger zone when:

a) we become dismissive/ abusive towards another believer who we don't agree with
b) we never accept the fact that it could be US who is wrong
c) we pridefully exalt ourselves above another and claim that it is only WE who have the truth

1 Corinthians 10:12

“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”

I have been in churches where the leadership was so sure that they were right that they hurt other people. I had an uneasy feeling in that church which I now believe was the Holy Spirit warning me away from it. I wish that I had paid attention to the "still small voice" but I learned that it's a process to learn to recognize when we're being warned.

I was confused and didn't know what to believe, only that it was wrong to hurt people. I wrote to 11 pastors about the situation and every single pastor told me that there was something wrong with the leadership. We left the church and several years later I learned that their little group - who had all thought they were so right - had broken up and the pastor was put out. They were sure all right weren't they? "Judgement begins with the house of God" and God didn't let them bask in their "rightness" - in their positions that they exalted themselves to, for long.

Whenever one lowers himself and denigrates another I believe that is a sure sign that something is wrong within their own hearts. You have no right to accuse another of having "fantasies" - and exalt yourself above another as if you alone knows the truth. I think that you need to repent of the pride that is within your own heart Enoch. I have seen no one else denigrate you at any time on here in this discussion.

Another thing - you were quick to speak up and accuse me of "showing affection" for 4Jesus and castigated me, telling me that "Willie was one of the good ones, a brother in Christ." Should I then accuse YOU of "showing your affection for Willie" ? If we measure by your yardstick, then you were showing your affection for Willie.

You have no knowledge of the backstory and must be careful jumping into a situation in which you only know partial facts about.

Proverbs 26:17

“He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.”

I had to block Willie awhile back because he was getting abusive. He is the only person on here that I have blocked but I hope that someday that changes when he has a change of heart.

If you truly want to be a peacemaker Enoch then why not rebuke Willie for his mistreatment of 4Jesus? And why not begin by cleansing your own heart of pride.

John 8:7

“So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”

Just because you don't have the eyes to see something yet, is no cause to denigrate and dismiss someone else who does have the eyes to see. You should know, since I believe you know God - that God gives us light a little at a time. There are those whom God has opened their eyes up to specific parts of the Bible that I have not been given understanding of yet and vice versa.

I have spoken to others who don't believe in God - who call me names and dismiss me as believing in a fairy tale. I converse with one man who is highly intelligent - one of the most intelligent persons I've known - yet he doesn't believe in God. I've tried saying things to him yet he dismisses me as being "uneducated" because I believe in God.

The man has not yet been given the "eyes" to see the truth of the gospel. I don't know if he ever will.

Matthew 13:11

“He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.”

You need to realize that there may be other people whom God has given the eyes to see these mysteries - that you may not yet have been given. Of course we have to be careful.

I have to go but I truly hope that you rethink your attitude Enoch. Don't fall into denigrating others. It's unfitting for those who claim to follow Christ. I tell you these things as a concerned sister in the Lord.

There are many verses that apply but I'll give you one:

Ephesians 4:29-32 - Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Jane_Doe22 said:

I literally already addressed this exact website and it's ill founded claims.

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I see. I guess the thing to do is let everyone interested read what the website has to say and make up their own minds about it.

Of course, you're welcome to publicly state your specific objections to their material rather than simply giving an ad hominem thumbs down to all that they say.

Willie T said:

What group/groups did Jesus warn the most about? Anyone remember?

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Scoffers??? Just kidding with ya, Willie.

aspen said:

Yes. There are many people in churches that screw up doctrine, including us! So what are we going to do about it? Opinions are not fact, yet opinions, even when they are commentary on fact, are all we have to offer. Human cannot generate fact, we can only commentate on it. Since this is the case, how can Christianity hinge on facts?

This is important.

Doctrine does not have the power to save us or damn us no matter how true or false it happens to be; opinion on truth certainly does not!

The Grace of the One who is Love is what saves us. It is this Love that justifies, sanctifies and transforms us. Love is also the the double edge sword that cuts across opinion and false dualism.

It is for this reason that I do not worry about the opinions of false teachers as much as I do about the loveless orthodox teachers.

Love is the answer to all sin because it completes the broken nature of all sin.

To answer your next post - I think all sin, inside and outside of the church is a threat to those without love.

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The English definition of love is a very wide one.
Them their priest claim to of loved them their boys they molested as does a homosexual claim the same but it's not the Love that Jesus is talking about that's for sure.

Prayer Warrior said:

Here's an excerpt from an article written by a 32nd-degree Mason that shows the link between Freemasonry and the Egyptian mystery schools. The article is titled "The Connection Between Ancient Egyptian Mystery Schools And Freemasonry."

Masonic teaching centers on its initiation rituals. Each of Freemasonry’s three degrees takes the candidate through a journey steeped in history, symbolism and allegory to teach him lessons of how to raise his divine spark, realize his relationship to a higher power (God, Grand Architect, Supreme Being, etc) and live a life of moral rectitude. Occult scholar, Lewis Spence (1874 – 1955) tells us of the same goal of initiation in Ancient Egypt:​

“The purpose of initiation is a conventional attempt to realize man’s place in the universe and in the divine scheme of things, and for this, I believe, the Egyptian Mystery System achieved for the first time in an orderly and philosophical manner … Have we no lessons to learn from Egypt? Aye, the greatest in the world, the knowledge of that divine introspection which alone can give man the likeness of the Divine.”​

Source: The Connection Between Ancient Egyptian Mystery Schools and Freemasonry | Gaia

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Thanks for this info. I'm reading through it currently.

One aspect I didn't see covered in that article is the square and compass, in the shape that they utilize (meaning the compass could be set closer together and not be symmetrical with the square), is their belief in, and I hate to say this so I'll say it gently, fertility symbols (up arrow and down arrow), which are common throughout ancient Egypt, Greece, even in the ol' USA...

4Jesus said:

Thanks for this info. I'm reading through it currently.

One aspect I didn't see covered in that article is the square and compass, in the shape that they utilize (meaning the compass could be set closer together and not be symmetrical with the square), is their belief in, and I hate to say this so I'll say it gently, fertility symbols (up arrow and down arrow), which are common throughout ancient Egypt, Greece, even in the ol' USA...

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I just now saw your post. I'm not being notified... Oh, well.

I don't have an answer. I'm sure there are other sources that explain the symbols you're talking about. Thanks for handling this topic "gently."

Prayer Warrior said:

Scoffers??? Just kidding with ya, Willie.

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Willie always lurks until trouble starts then jumps in - I hope you're not encouraging him. It's unchristian behavior and not fit for a Christian site. Maybe you should go back and scroll through all the posts and the people he has abused and maybe you'd think differently about joking with him. That's not Christian behavior. Maybe you should see the people who have tried telling him about his behavior but he continues on. His is the type of raucous behavior best suited to 4Chan and I wish he'd leave and go there where he belongs. I don't think he's a Christian and if he is he's a carnal Christian. I repented of the way I treated him earlier but he NEVER repented of the way he treated 4Jesus. Someone like that could never sustain a long-term relationship with anyone and I think he's divorced - or never married - which is why he has so much time to lurk on here and attack others. He's miserable and likes to project his misery onto others.

Ephesians 5:4

“Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.”

Soverign Grace said:

Willie always lurks until trouble starts then jumps in - I hope you're not encouraging him. It's unchristian behavior and not fit for a Christian site. Maybe you should go back and scroll through all the posts and the people he has abused and maybe you'd think differently about joking with him. That's not Christian behavior. Maybe you should see the people who have tried telling him about his behavior but he continues on. His is the type of raucous behavior best suited to 4Chan and I wish he'd leave and go there where he belongs. I don't think he's a Christian and if he is he's a carnal Christian. I repented of the way I treated him earlier but he NEVER repented of the way he treated 4Jesus. Someone like that could never sustain a long-term relationship with anyone and I think he's divorced which is why he has so much time to lurk on here and attack others. He's miserable and likes to project his misery onto others.

Ephesians 5:4

“Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.”

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No, I wasn't encouraging him at all. What I posted had nothing to do with you. Sorry you took it that way.

It's good to talk to you, BTW. It's been a long time.

Prayer Warrior said:

No, I wasn't encouraging him at all. What I posted had nothing to do with you. Sorry you took it that way.

It's good to talk to you, BTW. It's been a long time.

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Sorry, my mistake - I'm sick of Willie's raucous remarks. I can't see what he posts thank God but I see others' responses. Enoch pointed out the way I treated Willie yet never once said anything about how Willie treated others. In his usual form Willie had to build his weak ego up by attacking someone else. I truly hope that he gets the help that he needs. Sometimes counseling can be of benefit to explore the roots of why one feels the need to put others down - it's usually due to feelings of inadequacy or inability to sustain a long-term relationship.

Thanks - I don't recall talking to you or it's been awhile. I've met a number of people on here.

Willie T said:

Actually, your words are often encouraging to me... and probably to a lot of people.

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I really appreciate this, Willie! I do try to encourage others as the Holy Spirit leads.

Soverign Grace said:

Sorry, my mistake - I'm sick of Willie's raucous remarks. I can't see what he posts thank God but I see others' responses. Enoch pointed out the way I treated Willie yet never once said anything about how Willie treated others. In his usual form Willie had to build his weak ego up by attacking someone else. I truly hope that he gets the help that he needs. Sometimes counseling can be of benefit to explore the roots of why one feels the need to put others down - it's usually due to feelings of inadequacy or inability to sustain a long-term relationship.

Thanks - I don't recall talking to you or it's been awhile. I've met a number of people on here.

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Yeah, we met on Christian Forums, and I followed you over here to CB. We had a conversation going for a while. My life got a little messy last spring, and I took a break. I had some problems with my oldest, and my father died.... Life happens, right?

Prayer Warrior said:

I just now saw your post. I'm not being notified... Oh, well.

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Yeah, funny that. I'm ,'watching' this thread but not being notified either..... Ha! Spoke to soon... Was notified of Willie's post above.

Soverign Grace said:

Brakelite - I wasn't sure who was at the apex of power - I thought it was the 13 families? There are so many orders that it's hard to follow.

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I've heard that too, the 13 bloodlines from the evil ones. I believe Genesis, chapter 6:4-6 "
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." discusses "giants in the earth", aka the Nephilim.

And why wouldn't there be "royal" bloodlines under the evil one? It seems to work as far as a heirarchal methodology of those under their control (meaning the concept of kingdoms, kings & queens, rulers, and ruled), and stems from God Himself (meaning God came up with the concepts of kingdoms and kingships). Plus their leader is known as a "prince" (Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience").

Not to mention this system is found all the way to the end, in the book of Revelation, where there are ten kings who give power unto the beast: Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.". So if it's found at the end, that system must've started at some point...

Soverign Grace said:

Wow - I never made that connection to baal.

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I suspect, but cannot prove, Tubal-cain, a descendent of Cain, in Genesis 4:22 "And as for Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron. And the sister of Tubal-Cain was Naamah.", is short for Tubaal. Hebrew "ba'al" and "ba'l" means "husband", "owner", "lord".

Interestingly, the feminine form, "ba'alah", which means "mistress" (female owner or wife) has the same suffix as "alah", as in "kabbalah"/cabal/cabaalah.

And, since "ba'alah" which means mistress in Hebrew, could've been used in "kabbalah", with an inclusion of "ba'al", and represents the "mystery Babylon" (Revelation 17:5 "5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.") discussed in the book of Revelation is linked back to:
-Revelation 2:14 "But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication."
- Revelation 17:1-3 "
1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns." (who commits fornication with a "mistress", "ba'alah").

Soverign Grace said:

I have become very suspect of whatever is put forth by the mainstream news - and I'm equally as wary with alternative news sites. I tend to somewhat trust Sons of Liberty because I think pastor Tim Brown is credible.

The news moves the masses and we have to wake up to the lies being perpetrated - we know where lies come from. This has all shown me the truth of the words "The whole world lieth in the evil one."

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I agree with you to be wary of all sources, including alternative news sites (which some have argued that people put their faith into, to trust wholeheartedly instead of the mainstream media).

Yes, I agree about what the scriptural verse tells us, what God tells us; undoubtedly.

Grailhunter said:

I am pretty sure I have some democrats here, so let me ask this question, in today's world how can a Christian, in good conscience vote for a democrat. Considering their initiatives as it is to push America to communism, I am just wondering how you equate that to good?

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Am I included in your grouping of who is a demo(n)crat?

Willie T said:

Ya get "Notified" of the important ones. LOL

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Haha. Okay... From now on I can expect my inbox to be exclusively'important' . Lol