Just for....those who, well, not just for some, but for all who would love God.

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ScottA

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The Church is distinctive among institutions in the history of mankind: it is human and yet divine; perfect, yet in need of reform; holy, yet made up of sinners; infallible, yet led by fallen, fallible humans. That’s a hard concept to express to someone outside the Church—sometimes it’s hard for us inside the Church to remember it.
And there you have it from the Catholics...or some...of whom are "led by fallen, fallible humans" instead of the Holy Spirit sent by Jesus according to His promise.

And that is the rift. That is what the Spirit has led men of faith and good conscience to break away from throughout the history of the church.

Nonetheless, I have friends and family whom I love who are Catholic, as do many of us; and I pray that they would be touched by that same Spirit (of the Father) that revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God; that they to might come to revere and follow only One, and stop considering themselves as exclusive, lest they be excluded. Amen.
 

amadeus

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"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way." Psalm 37:23

"He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake." Psalm 23:2-3
 

Windmillcharge

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We all need to be sensitive to the challenge of scripture. Our pet ideas, rituals etc easily become a barrier between us and other Christians in other denominations.
eg calvinists are not agents of satan, any more than arminians are, or strict baptists, or ritual bound churches.

It is the personal relationship with Jesus that counts.
 

justbyfaith

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Calvinism does deter many a person from receiving Christ into their heart as Lord and Saviour; and is also conducive to those who do receive Him thinking that they may not have salvation after all (because if God didn't choose them, it doesn't matter that they chose Him).

Therefore I consider that Calvinism is to a very great degree a demonic doctrine (see 1 Timothy 4:1-2).

I do believe that there are those who believe in it who are redeemed.

Even the elect can be deceived for a season.
 
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Philip James

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and stop considering themselves as exclusive, lest they be excluded

Exclusive? Why would you think the Church is exclusive?

From the CCC:

814 From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them. Within the unity of the People of God, a multiplicity of peoples and cultures is gathered together. Among the Church's members, there are different gifts, offices, conditions, and ways of life. "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions."263 The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity. Yet sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. and so the Apostle has to exhort Christians to "maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.


All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 
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ScottA

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Exclusive? Why would you think the Church is exclusive?

From the CCC:

814 From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them. Within the unity of the People of God, a multiplicity of peoples and cultures is gathered together. Among the Church's members, there are different gifts, offices, conditions, and ways of life. "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions."263 The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity. Yet sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. and so the Apostle has to exhort Christians to "maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.


All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
And yet (even here) there seems to be a rift of nonacceptance toward Protestants.
 
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marks

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And there you have it from the Catholics...or some...of whom are "led by fallen, fallible humans" instead of the Holy Spirit sent by Jesus according to His promise.

And that is the rift. That is what the Spirit has led men of faith and good conscience to break away from throughout the history of the church.

Nonetheless, I have friends and family whom I love who are Catholic, as do many of us; and I pray that they would be touched by that same Spirit (of the Father) that revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God; that they to might come to revere and follow only One, and stop considering themselves as exclusive, lest they be excluded. Amen.

Epostle's quote:
"The Church is distinctive among institutions in the history of mankind: it is human and yet divine; perfect, yet in need of reform; holy, yet made up of sinners; infallible, yet led by fallen, fallible humans. That’s a hard concept to express to someone outside the Church—sometimes it’s hard for us inside the Church to remember it."

The point that seems to be in contention to me is in saying that the church is infallible. What does that even mean?

Much love!
 

ScottA

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Epostle's quote:
"The Church is distinctive among institutions in the history of mankind: it is human and yet divine; perfect, yet in need of reform; holy, yet made up of sinners; infallible, yet led by fallen, fallible humans. That’s a hard concept to express to someone outside the Church—sometimes it’s hard for us inside the Church to remember it."

The point that seems to be in contention to me is in saying that the church is infallible. What does that even mean?

Much love!
Well...it is true, if Christ is in us and we in Him, we exist within His infallibility. Thus, John writes, "Whoever abides in Him does not sin."

But that would not be true of one who, rather than being in Christ, is only in a church built on the wrong rock.
 

ScottA

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Hello marks,
It means we (all of us) are guarded and guided by the Holy Spirit who will not allow the Church to teach error on faith and morals...

Peace!
@marks

Philip, that does not account for the teaching of false doctrines.

It is true that we are guarded and guided by the Holy Spirit, which guards those who are taught, but does not guard those who teach, who's witness is false. To the one life, and the other death.
 
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Philip James

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@marks

Philip, that does not account for the teaching of false doctrines.

It is true that we are guarded and guided by the Holy Spirit, which guards those who are taught, but does not guard those who teach, who's witness is false. To the one life, and the other death.

Hello Scott.

That is exactly why we must remain within the apostolic community.
Those who teach false doctrine:

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Peace!
 

ScottA

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Hello Scott.

That is exactly why we must remain within the apostolic community.
Those who teach false doctrine:

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Peace!
I agree. But the warning also includes "false teachers among you." 2 Peter 2:1

Thus, the only reliable source...is the Spirit, whether by Leader, Elder, or babe.
 

Philip James

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I agree. But the warning also includes "false teachers among you." 2 Peter 2:1

Thus, the only reliable source...is the Spirit, whether by Leader, Elder, or babe.

Indeed, and the Spirit has been dealing with those false teachers for 2000 years.
Unfortunately the rejection of the authority of the Church by some of our scattered brethen has reopened the door to heresies long since repudiated, and they have resurfaced in droves..

Peace!
 
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Enoch111

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And yet (even here) there seems to be a rift of nonacceptance toward Protestants.
It goes deeper than that. Protestants are essentially heretics according to *the one true Church*.

HERESY
Protestantism[43] Protestant groups display a wide variety of different doctrines. However, the early Reformers all stressed the five solae (1) Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone"); the conviction that only the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments should be used to form doctrine, in contradistinction to the Roman Catholic view that both Scripture and the magisterium of the Church set dogma. (2) Sola fide ("by faith alone"); the conviction that believers are justified by faith in Christ alone, rather than in Christ and good works. (3) Sola Gratia ("by grace alone"); the conviction that believers are saved by God's grace alone, and not by human works. (4) Solus Christus ("by Christ alone"); the conviction that the work of salvation is entirely the work of God through the mediatorial work of Christ alone. (5) Soli Deo Gloria ("for God's glory alone"); the conviction that the work of salvation is entirely for God's glory alone. [44][45]

Some believe the great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgment, which denies the infallible authority of the Roman Catholic Church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself.[46]However, the early Reformers warned against private interpretation, emphasizing, instead, the connection and continuity with the ancient church, and its dogma.


List of Heresies the Catholic Church Rejected
 

Enoch111

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Unfortunately the rejection of the authority of the Church by some of our scattered brethen has reopened the door to heresies long since repudiated, and they have resurfaced in droves..
This is what the Catholic Church teaches. But that authority was never given as claimed. While God and Christ have ultimate authority in the universe, the written Word of God has more authority than any church group. But this is rejected by the CC.
 

Philip James

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This is what the Catholic Church teaches. But that authority was never given as claimed

Well I guess I should just take a knife and cut out all the verses that show Jesus giving authority to the apostles, and all those that speak of the authority of the Church..,
Perhaps we should cut this one out first? :

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Peace!
 

justbyfaith

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Well I guess I should just take a knife and cut out all the verses that show Jesus giving authority to the apostles, and all those that speak of the authority of the Church..,
Perhaps we should cut this one out first? :

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Peace!
The church is the body of Christ. The building is the church only in that it is where the people of God come together as a congregation and as a unified body.
 

ScottA

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Indeed, and the Spirit has been dealing with those false teachers for 2000 years.
Unfortunately the rejection of the authority of the Church by some of our scattered brethen has reopened the door to heresies long since repudiated, and they have resurfaced in droves..

Peace!
That sounds a bit like agreeing to disagree; agreeing with Who is in charge, but then disagreeing on who the church actually is.

I would encourage you to consider that you have it upside down, that the leaders are not the church, but are the least of them and have no more authority than servants, servants that are blind (as it is written). The church rather has One Head and many members of one body, with the same authority give to the meek among the congregation as to those who hold position. For the victory of these times is not won in halls, but in hearts, even in homes.
 

ScottA

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Well I guess I should just take a knife and cut out all the verses that show Jesus giving authority to the apostles, and all those that speak of the authority of the Church..,
Perhaps we should cut this one out first? :

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Peace!
No...but you are in need of redefinition.

The church = the body and bride of Christ (not the leaders only).

The apostles = those sent (not just the twelve, one of whom was a demon).

The household of God = the kingdom (which is not of this world).

Considering rather that the end of the age is not ushered in by the authority of a few, but of One, and by the weakness of many. To the contrary, "the violent take it by force."