Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

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Yehren

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CovenantPromise said:
What is that stupid looking Icon you use? It looks like a cross between a Nephilim, Sasquatch and santa clause, YUCK!

Yehren chuckles:
It's the cross that bothers you, isn't it?

OH please even pagans wear crosses

And even pagans talk about "Nehilim." Is that the problem, here?

So your point?

You're too concerned with all that imaginative pilpul, and not enough with just following Him.

If you are trying to imply salvation bothers me

It seems to puzzle you. You're spending all this time, concocting elaborate doctrines, and all you have to do, is let Him in.
 

CovenantPromise

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Yehren chuckles:
It's the cross that bothers you, isn't it?



And even pagans talk about "Nehilim." Is that the problem, here?



You're too concerned with all that imaginative pilpul, and not enough with just following Him.



It seems to puzzle you. You're spending all this time, concocting elaborate doctrines, and all you have to do, is let Him in.
Oh ok. Thanks for the comic relief, I needed a good chuckle .
God Bless!
 
B

brakelite

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WRONG.

YOUR problem - as ALWAYS - is with context.
That's the problem with EVERY anti-Catholic I come across - because to leave the Word in context means to agree with the Catholic position.

1 Pet. 3:18-22

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

He went to preach to the spirits in prison AFTER He was put to death and "made alive in the spirit".
It's NOT talking about Him preaching "through Noah" back in the day. He preached to those whom disobeyed DURING Noah's time.

Jesus explains that this "Prison" and Paradise or Bosom of Abraham are in the SAME place, separated by a "great chasm" (Luke 16:26).
So the Bible tells us that God is not a respector of persons... He has no favourites in other words. Please explain why Jesus would choose to give those people a second chance and not those who lived after the flood... Or the ones who died before the flood... Why are the ones who rejected Noah so special?
 
B

brakelite

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Those who try to push other denominations away from God will only succeed in removing themselves from God. Reconcile yourself with Him; it's important to your salvation.
How can anyone even attempt to push a denomination away from God? They do that all on their own, they need no help from me. And if a denomination has already distanced itself from God, then the call to come out of it is entirely appropriate for those who remain and are still His... Such as those who God is addressing when He says, come out of her My people.
 

Yehren

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How can anyone even attempt to push a denomination away from God?

Attempts are easy. But as you see, that attempt only removes one's self from God.

And if a denomination has already distanced itself from God, then the call to come out of it is entirely appropriate for those who remain and are still His...

Protestants did not distance themselves from God; Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians did not distance themselves from God, except to the extent that the followers of these three traditions tried to distance each other from God. Even the devout followers of Judaism, Islam, and other non-Christian religions are people of sacred worth who are, with us, seeking to follow the Creator.

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.

Pope Paul VI
Nostra Aetate
 

BreadOfLife

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Really , have at it, you did say this was not about Christ. All you post to drown this out hides nothing of what you said before God. It appeases your brood.
I KNOW:
Isaiah fills in the blanks that the apostles selectively chose to leave out. This is without a doubt about Christ and the mountains breaking forth in song(The earth quake which shook the mount of Golgotha and the region, and the trees clapping their hands AT CHIRIST'S COMPLETED WORK ON THE CROSS, and His word going forth like rain and snow upon all.

Only a heretic would deny this. The free gift of salvation is given ONLY by Christ. That free gift is the ransom for all (COME WITHOUT MONEYmeans just that and deeper still- without any personal merit . We are bought and paid for on the CROSS. BOL is a heretic to deny this. And all who believe Him too are as such. That according to their denial of this GREAT PROPHET'S WORDS . I am right about the rain. The apostles deliberately with held that because Christ knew the wolves and weeds are to be called out in this end of Days. Where it is not said in one part of scripture it is said else where
clear.png

That is called a GOD wink's moment, an AHA! GOTCHA ! Simply catching those little foxes which run amuck in the vineyard.

Clearly Pontius Pilot saw what he saw and what the apostles chose not to tell is within the PROPHET Isaiah's writings. The spirit of Christ within me lead with what He did to show you all as not approved=NOT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Your word's are not governed by the Spirit of Christ but rather the precepts of men. MANY , MANY whores in here . The Spirit in me knew you would discredit an eyewitness' account but uphold a dictionary. He knew the whores would speak against a PROPHET who upheld my CLAIMS. I want to thank all of you for being what you are and allowing me to publish this dialogue which reveals the heretics of the RCC and other denominations. Lord Jesus may your TWO Witnesses testify against these assemblies soon, Not according to my will BUT YOURS. Isaiah 55:
Invitation to the Needy
1“Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you without money,
come, buy, and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk,
without money and without cost!
2Why spend money on that which is not bread,
and your labor on that which does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
and your soul will delight in the richest of foods.
3Incline your ear and come to Me;
listen, so that your soul may live.
will make with you an everlasting covenant—
My loving devotion assured to David.
4Behold, I have made him a witness to the nations,
a leader and commander of the peoples.
5Surely you will summon a nation you do not know,
and nations who do not know you will run to you.
For the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel,
has bestowed glory on you.”
6Seek the LORD while He may be found;
call on Him while He is near.
7Let the wicked man forsake his own way
nd the unrighteous man his own thoughts;
let him return to the LORD,
that He may have compassion,
and to our God,
for He will freely pardon.
8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways My ways,”
declares the LORD.
9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so My ways are higher than your ways
and My thoughts than your thoughts.
10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven
and do not return without watering the earth,
making it bud and sprout,
and providing seed to sow and food to eat,
11so My word that proceeds from My mouth
will not return to Me empty,
but it will accomplish what I please,
and it will prosper where I send it.
12You will indeed go out with joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.
13Instead of the thornbush, a cypress will grow,
and instead of the brier, a myrtle will spring up;
they will make a name for the LORD
as an everlasting sign, never to be destroyed.”
Christ's act upon the CROSS is an everlasting SIGN never to be destroyed, no matter what anyone says .
And NOBODY is trying to "destroy" what Christ did.
It's YOUR wacky interpretations that have nothing to do with truth . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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No you don't you use Christ's name and scriptures all the time but you do not learn from them.
Matthew too will use the GREAT PROPHET ISAIAH against you.
Matthew 15:8
…7You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you: 8‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. 9They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’”…
Another attack that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what we were talking about.
What a surprise . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Don't be absurd. How can anything be circumcised without cutting and bleeding? The heart is a sacrifice.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Those were among the last words by St. Teresa of Avila. Oh, if only there were more Catholics like her.

Byzantine Discalced Carmelites - Saint Teresa of Avila

In 1582 the words that Teresa repeated as she lay dying were: "A humble and contrite heart You will not despise, O God" and "O Lord, remember I die a daughter of the Church."

The first prayer recasts the compunction of her life her stance as a sinful creature before the Almighty and the second prayer expresses her great confidence in Jesus Christ and total devotion to His Church - to Jesus in His Mystical Body.

And NONE of your grandstanding has refuted the words of Paul - that TRUE circumcision has NOTHING to do with shedding of blood.
It is the result of a changed heart.

Teresa of Avila knew this.
I know this.
The entire Christian world knows this.
The ONLY one who doesn't know this, it seems - is YOU . . .
That is the original meaning. And yes, there was blood shed in the covenant with Noah.

Why do you think it's called the "New Covenant" anyway? It's because of the blood that unites the two.
Ummmmm, WHOSE blood was shed in the the Covenant between God and Noah??
Chapter and Verse
, please . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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CLEARLY THERE IS SALVATION OUTSIDE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. There is Salvation in Christ alone and those in Him are CHURCH. Hence THE BODY OF CHRIST!
Spoken like a person who doesn't understand WHAT the Church is . . .

- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5). He and His Church are INSEPARABLE.
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

Is there salvation outside the Church?
Absolutely NOT.
 

BreadOfLife

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That is lie I said: CHRIST DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF AND THAT HE PERSONALLY BAPTIZED THE THIEF ON THE CROSS ACCORDING TO HIS OWN STANDARD AND ISIAH SUPPORTS THAT TRUTH THAT I SPOKE. You said the thief did not receive that Word as rain upon him as a water baptism and ISAIAH proved you wrong. That is how that all went down. And you have nothing left now but to lie about what I clearly said and to twist my words because you can not win against the Spirit of Christ in me . In a war a words with Christ you have lost before you even begun. Now you know why the saints get martyred. They are undefeated in Word because they lean upon the Beloved. So the brood of vipers , when all their lying fails they then resort to their next weapon- MURDER. They are like their father who is a murderer and liar from the beginning.Good thing their is a computer between us because so far you have done 1. deny the TRUTH 2. lied and slandered my person 3. you have no power to do (Murder) but you do show hate in what you have done -lie and slander,
you have already hated me by those actions and therefore have murdered me in your heart.
1 John 3:
Love One Another
…14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer. 16By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.…
First of all - you have NOT proven that it "rained" at the Crucifixion. Isaiah NEVER mentions this.

Secondly - you STILL haven't explained that if ALL people must be water-Baptized - without exception - what happens to the millions of aborted babies??
Can you at least TRY to address this???
 

ScottA

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Spoken like a person who doesn't understand WHAT the Church is . . .

- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5). He and His Church are INSEPARABLE.
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

Is there salvation outside the Church?
Absolutely NOT.
Also spoken like a person who doesn't understand what the church is... You left out this passage:

John 6:70
"Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
 

CovenantPromise

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First of all - you have NOT proven that it "rained" at the Crucifixion. Isaiah NEVER mentions this.

Secondly - you STILL haven't explained that if ALL people must be water-Baptized - without exception - what happens to the millions of aborted babies??
Can you at least TRY to address this???
Whether you believed it rained or not, His Word certainly went forth as such and did what you claim it did not do and that is- prosper Him according to His standard . It watered and produced fruit according to His standard: "Truly ,Truly I tell you unless a man be born of both water and spirit he will not enter the kingdom of heaven" So when He spoke that, that thief would be in paradise that day , His Word MOST certainly was as rain and Christ personally, according to His Word and own STANDARD, did accomplish the will of the Father, which is what His Word is purposed in . THAT IS A FACT THAT ISAIAH UPHOLDS, no matter what your opinion is. No Isaiah does not say in exact words "IT RAINED AT THE CRUCIFIXION" but Isaiah does say:
Isaiah 55:10-12
Invitation to the Needy
…10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, 11so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. 12You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.…

What does the word accomplish? What He pleases. And that is not your false doctrine of a "Baptism of Desire" with No baptism. But rather according to Christ's OWN doctrine. The only desire there is, is a Baptism of the Lord's desire to fulfill, according to the VERY standard He laid . Which states:"Truly ,Truly I tell you unless a man be born of both water and spirit he will not enter the kingdom of heaven" THAT IS WHAT HE SAID. PERIOD. So His Word accomplished this when He sent it forth to that thief and was like water upon the ground and dry land and brought forth fruit according to HIS WORD do you get it-the standard . He is not a liar , nor a hypocrite, nor does He change His mind. But acts upon His own standard and performs according to His UNCHANGING WORD. Christ is the same yesterday , today and FOREVER. Are you illiterate?
Hebrews 13:8
8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace and not by foods of no value to those devoted to them.…
You doctrine is like a food of no value.
Christ's Word worked according to the VERY STANDARD put forth BY CHRIST . The (Word) baptized that man ACCORDING to Christ's own Words. WHY, because He is UNCHANGING ,GET IT. and That same word can do the same for any victim of circumstance especially for INNOCENT BABIES. But it will be done , and not your view, that it will not be done , because Christ is NO liar!
 
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CovenantPromise

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BOL are you saying Christ cannot baptize people? And would not do a baptism of a victim of circumstance? So let me see if I get this....because of your indoctrination in a falsehood (a defilement) you are saying Christ cannot and would not do according to His Own word- The Holy Spirit, and baptize, but rather would do as you believe in your defilement and contradict His own teaching? I guess you missed the class that taught : "A house divided cannot stand".
You should come to Christ and accept all he teaches and repent because you are sin in that belief.

Numbers 23:
19God is not a man, that He should lie, or a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?

Do you know what Truly, truly means? It means I PROMISE YOU, I MEAN IT, WITHOUT A DOUBT.
 
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BreadOfLife

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So the Bible tells us that God is not a respector of persons... He has no favourites in other words. Please explain why Jesus would choose to give those people a second chance and not those who lived after the flood... Or the ones who died before the flood... Why are the ones who rejected Noah so special?
First of all - where does it say they got a second chance?
And even if they did - there was no Law until much later. Remember what Paul wrote about the Law:

Romans 7:7-8

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead.

Jesus ALSO said:
John 9:41
Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

Let GOD judge the way HE sees fit - not the way YOU think He should . . .
 

CovenantPromise

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Hey BOL, PRAY AND READ:
John 3:5
5Jesus answered,, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
AGAIN:
Numbers 23:
19God is not a man, that He should lie, or a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?
AGAIN:
Do you know what Truly, truly means? It means I PROMISE YOU, I MEAN IT, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

PROVE THAT WRONG. This is not about whether or not YOU believed it rained it is about whether or not the Word is like rain. All the rest of your nonsense is just that. And those who came forth from their graves too had a water baptism and that when the rocks split. Are you saying that , that has nothing to do with what Moses did? And lastly historians (EYEWITNESSES) say ALL nature convulsed and there was a clamor and a veil and wind .Not just an unprecedented Eclipse, out of season but all the universe and nature reacted to THE AUTHOR OF LIFE'S, crucifixion.
 

BreadOfLife

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Whether you believed it rained or not, His Word certainly went forth as such and did what you claim it did not do and that is- prosper Him according to His standard . It watered and produced fruit according to His standard: "Truly ,Truly I tell you unless a man be born of both water and spirit he will not enter the kingdom of heaven" So when He spoke that, that thief would be in paradise that day , His Word MOST certainly was as rain and Christ personally, according to His Word and own STANDARD, did accomplish the will of the Father, which is what His Word is purposed in . THAT IS A FACT THAT ISAIAH UPHOLDS, no matter what your opinion is. No Isaiah does not say in exact words "IT RAINED AT THE CRUCIFIXION" but Isaiah does say:
Isaiah 55:10-12
Invitation to the Needy
…10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, 11so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. 12You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.…

What does the word accomplish? What He pleases. And that is not your false doctrine of a "Baptism of Desire" with No baptism. But rather according to Christ's OWN doctrine. The only desire there is, is a Baptism of the Lord's desire to fulfill, according to the VERY standard He laid . Which states:"Truly ,Truly I tell you unless a man be born of both water and spirit he will not enter the kingdom of heaven" THAT IS WHAT HE SAID. PERIOD. So His Word accomplished this when He sent it forth to that thief and was like water upon the ground and dry land and brought forth fruit according to HIS WORD do you get it-the standard . He is not a liar , nor a hypocrite, nor does He change His mind. But acts upon His own standard and performs according to His UNCHANGING WORD. Christ is the same yesterday , today and FOREVER. Are you illiterate?
Hebrews 13:8
8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace and not by foods of no value to those devoted to them.…
You doctrine is like a food of no value.
Christ's Word worked according to the VERY STANDARD put forth BY CHRIST . The (Word) baptized that man ACCORDING to Christ's own Words. WHY, because He is UNCHANGING ,GET IT. and That same word can do the same for any victim of circumstance especially for INNOCENT BABIES. But it will be done , and not your view, that it will not be done , because Christ is NO liar!
I never said He was - but YOU'RE all over the place on this . . .

FIRST, you say that we MUST be water-baptized - which is something that I agree with you on.
You used John 3:5 as proof text, which is great.
HOWEVER - YOU have gone so far as to say that there are NO exceptions to the rule, so the Thief HAD to have gotten wet at some point.

So. I brought up the case of aborted babies - who have NEVER had the chance to be Baptized.
NOW, you say that they HAVE been baptized - but NOT with water.

Sooooooo, which is it??
Water or NO water??
Exceptions or NO exceptions??

Make up your mind already . . .
 

Yehren

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Water isn't magic. It's merely a sacramental; a symbol. The good thief was saved by God by his act of faith, without water at all. Likewise, if one feigns faith and undergoes baptism, it is nothing. The symbol is not salvation.

Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do, but by the Church's prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. "For well-disposed members of the faithful, the liturgy of the sacraments and sacramentals sanctifies almost every event of their lives with the divine grace which flows from the Paschal mystery of the Passion, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. From this source all sacraments and sacramentals draw their power. There is scarcely any proper use of material things which cannot be thus directed toward the sanctification of men and the praise of God."
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Sacramentals
 

CovenantPromise

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Maybe you need different versions that mean all the same thing...... I promise, I mean it, Truly , Truly, VERILY , VERILY, I assure you, you know- without a doubt. I mean clearly you and the "father- in- laws" do not like truth but TRULY, TRULY Christ does not care.

New International Version
Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

New Living Translation
Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

English Standard Version
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Berean Study Bible
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless anyone be born of water and of the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.

New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

New King James Version
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

King James Bible
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly I tell you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered: I tell you for certain that before you can get into God's kingdom, you must be born not only by water, but by the Spirit.

Good News Translation
"I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Jesus answered, "I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

International Standard Version
Jesus answered, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

NET Bible
Jesus answered, "I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

New Heart English Bible
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua answered and said to him: “Timeless truth I am telling you: “If a person is not born from water and The Spirit, it is impossible that he shall enter the Kingdom of God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Jesus answered Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

New American Standard 1977
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

King James 2000 Bible
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

American King James Version
Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

American Standard Version
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Darby Bible Translation
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

English Revised Version
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say to thee, Except a man be born of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Weymouth New Testament
"In most solemn truth I tell you," replied Jesus, "that unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

World English Bible
Jesus answered, "Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God!

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus answered, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
 

BreadOfLife

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Hey BOL, PRAY AND READ:
John 3:5
5Jesus answered,, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
AGAIN:
Numbers 23:
19God is not a man, that He should lie, or a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?
AGAIN:
Do you know what Truly, truly means? It means I PROMISE YOU, I MEAN IT, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

PROVE THAT WRONG. This is not about whether or not YOU believed it rained it is about whether or not the Word is like rain. All the rest of your nonsense is just that. And those who came forth from their graves too had a water baptism and that when the rocks split. Are you saying that , that has nothing to do with what Moses did? And lastly historians (EYEWITNESSES) say ALL nature convulsed and there was a clamor and a veil and wind .Not just an unprecedented Eclipse, out of season but all the universe and nature reacted to THE AUTHOR OF LIFE'S, crucifixion.
"LIKE rain" and actual rain are two different things.
There is not ONE SINGLE account - Biblical OR extrabiblical - that it rained at the Crucifixion.

It makes for a great scene in movies like "Ben-Hur" - but there is absolutely ZERO evidence for it.
So - YOU can continue to rave on about how "heretical" I and others are for not having the same wacky interpretations that spill out of your head - but that's on YOU, not us.
 

BreadOfLife

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Also spoken like a person who doesn't understand what the church is... You left out this passage:

John 6:70
"Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Apples and oranges.
There have ALWAYS been bad individuals within the Church - and there will be until the end of time (Matt. 7:15-23).

STUDY your Bible, dude . . .