Should women teach the bible?

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Soverign Grace

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Here is an example.
Above the passage was cut off to make it fit one's agenda. Let's read it in full...
(1Ti 2:8) I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
(1Ti 2:9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
(1Ti 2:10) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
(1Ti 2:11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
(1Ti 2:12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(1Ti 2:13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(1Ti 2:14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


Deceptively the person left out vss 13&14 showing it was not just a desire or non permission of Paul but an issue embedded in the history of mankind transcending culture.

Oh how reason can twist God's Word.

I'm not really sure what you mean?
 

Soverign Grace

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Everyone's *take* should be according to Scripture. Women are NOT permitted to (1) preach to an assembly of Christians, (2) teach within a local church, and (3) take any kind of spiritual authority within the home or the church. Also, according to Scripture, Christian women must cover their heads and their hair during worship.

Since we are seeing evidence of the Great Apostasy within Christendom today, we are also seeing (a) women preachers, (b) homosexual ministers, (c) sexual perverts as priests and bishops and (d) atheists in Christian pulpits.

I tend to think along these lines as well. I was influenced by the strict Presbyterian church, but it is in the bible - and it can't be explained away. Unless like Scott said there is a deeper spiritual meaning behind it - that I haven't yet been given understanding about.

Because of the church we attended I still can't listen to women preachers.

We do see pastors outright ignoring Scripture as Enoch pointed out. I saw where 12 pastors blessed an abortion clinic. We see still other "pastors" doing quite outrageous things.

I just wonder if women teachers is apostasy. It's interesting that there are differing views.
 

Heart2Soul

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You're right - he did say not to usurp authority over a man. But Paul said. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Even on this forum there are a lot a female members sharing and teaching what they have learned......
How do you reconcile that scripture to the one Paul says: Galatians 3:25-29 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There are many scriptures that speak of women teaching.....Aquilla and Priscilla were very essential in teaching the Church of Ephesus along with Apollos.

Ephesus was the 1st church addressed in Revelation....an interesting read is the history of the Church of Ephesus....

In my belief, I think anyone who is a disciple of Christ can teach. We are all teachers in some way or another when we share with others about Christ.
 

amadeus

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........
Indeed, the bible's main context...is not history. The words must be discerned spiritually.

In this case, the greater word of God collectively identifies God as male, and mankind as female...as it is with marriage and the church (the bride of Christ). Thus, the message may well have been about unruly women of Paul's day, but that is not why it is in the bible. It is in the bible so that the church (female) from that time forward would get the spiritual message to hear only from the male component (the Groom/Christ), while the rest of the world would go about their own interpretations without the Spirit...dividing the sheep from the goats.
…….
Even so...

As the natural woman is to receive the natural seed of the man to bear natural children, so is the spiritual woman to receive the spiritual seed of man to bear spiritual children. But who is the spiritual womand and who is the spiritual man? Consider Paul's written words:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

There is a male role and a female role. In the Church, the male is the presenter of the Word (the seed via the preacher, or singer, or musician, or testifier, etc.) and the female is the Church that listens "silently" and receives. Any natural man or natural women who silently listens and receives is the spiritual woman. Any natural man or natural woman who presents the Word is the spiritual man. Jesus was the Man and all of the listeners were the Woman. Jesus is the Head while the Church is the Body (of Christ), the Body consisting of both physical males and physical females.

Mary the natural mother of Jesus fits into this pattern as well. God is the Father and Mary is the Mother. The offspring is of the kind that we are intended to have... God is the perfect Father. Mary is human, but unspoiled by a flawed man.

In the "real" world of churches, the preacher when he is presenting the Word is as the Father, but actually, as we know, he misses the mark many times in many places. But... the same is true of the Woman who is supposed to listen and receive silently, but actually is too often not silent and is critical even when the Preacher is not missing it. Error exists in both parts but an ideal pattern exists if we are able to see it and to replicate it.
 

prism

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The point is, it was Paul's opinion and prejudice, that scripture doesn't agree with, not a commandment of the Lord.

As for Adam and Eve, who had the greater sin? Eve was tricked, and nothing happened; but when Adam willfully sinned (the greater sin) their eyes were opened and they saw themselves as naked. We were damned because of Adam's sin, not Eve's.
Still, Eve was deceived, not Adam; that is why women are not to teach men. (Perhaps Adam disobeyed for his love for Eve, knowing the consequences? _who knows?).
 

Truth

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We went to a strict Presbyterian church one time and I adopted at least some of their values: they were very strictly against women teachers in accordance with Paul's admonition that he "does not allow a woman to teach." Yet we see more and more women teachers.

What is your take on this?

Paul taught that women should be silent in the Assembly! BUT, Women are a large part of Mankind, within the Scriptures the Masculine form is always prominent, yet we are all a part of mankind!! I believe that Women should not usurp Authority over men, but to teach the Truth, who would want to stop them!!
 
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Heart2Soul

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Paul taught that women should be silent in the Assembly! BUT, Women are a large part of Mankind, within the Scriptures the Masculine form is always prominent, yet we are all a part of mankind!! I believe that Women should not usurp Authority over men, but to teach the Truth, who would want to stop them!!
Agreed, women should not usurp authority over a man in an assembly if the man is present as that authority. I am not a fan of female preachers, I would rather sit under a male pastor. I can't even explain why it bothers me....it just does.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Still, Eve was deceived, not Adam; that is why women are not to teach men. (Perhaps Adam disobeyed for his love for Eve, knowing the consequences? _who knows?).
Why do people present Adam as innocent in this way? He wasn't deceived yet deliberately partook. Eve sinned out of being deceived, Adam out of his own choice.
Scripture says by one man's disobedience many were made sinners so by the One shall many be made righteous.
So how does this verse imply this is why women shouldn't teach.
Proverbs 31 starts out with King Lemuel sharing the prophesy his mother taught him....
Deborah was a judge and a prophetess....she was the only female to hold that position and under her guidance Barak conquered Sisera and delivered Israel from the oppression of the Canaanite king.
 
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Enoch111

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I just wonder if women teachers is apostasy. It's interesting that there are differing views.
Yes it is. You will note that when women have taken the role of prophetess or Bible teacher, they have promoted heresies. We have Jezebel in the church at Thayatira "who calleth herself a prophetess" but led her adherents into sin and idolatry. Then we have Ellen G. White who also claimed to be a prophetess but promoted many strange teachings, Feminist Catherine Booth, New Ager Elizabeth Claire Prophet, Beth Moore, Joyce Meyer, etc. and probably several others.

It is according to divine revelation that Paul connected the deception of Eve to God's injunction against female preachers, teachers, prophetesses, *pastors* or *elders*. And the divine principle of headship also applies, which too many Christians are not even aware of.

This is not to say that men have not promoted heresies and apostasy. But that is a separate issue, and Christ had some very harsh things to say about those wolves who would enter into the churches to devour the flocks.

The root of the problem is that evangelical and fundamental churches have generally departed from the New Testament pattern of a PLURALITY of pastor/elder/bishops (all mature Christian men appointed and anointed by God for their ministry, who would be true shepherds). And it is because the hurting sheep are neglected that they turn to the wolves for comfort (like little Red Riding Hood).
 

Heart2Soul

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Yes it is. You will note that when women have taken the role of prophetess or Bible teacher, they have promoted heresies. We have Jezebel in the church at Thayatira "who calleth herself a prophetess" but led her adherents into sin and idolatry. Then we have Ellen G. White who also claimed to be a prophetess but promoted many strange teachings, Feminist Catherine Booth, New Ager Elizabeth Claire Prophet, Beth Moore, Joyce Meyer, etc. and probably several others.

It is according to divine revelation that Paul connected the deception of Eve to God's injunction against female preachers, teachers, prophetesses, *pastors* or *elders*. And the divine principle of headship also applies, which too many Christians are not even aware of.

This is not to say that men have not promoted heresies and apostasy. But that is a separate issue, and Christ had some very harsh things to say about those wolves who would enter into the churches to devour the flocks.

The root of the problem is that evangelical and fundamental churches have generally departed from the New Testament pattern of a PLURALITY of pastor/elder/bishops (all mature Christian men appointed and anointed by God for their ministry, who would be true shepherds). And it is because the hurting sheep are neglected that they turn to the wolves for comfort (like little Red Riding Hood).
Well every woman on this forum better stop teaching then. :)
 

amadeus

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Agreed, women should not usurp authority over a man in an assembly if the man is present as that authority. I am not a fan of female preachers, I would rather sit under a male pastor. I can't even explain why it bothers me....it just does.
A great many years ago, 1976 to be more precise, my wife and I were called by God to a certain meeting in a little assembly in El Sobrante, CA. The pastor, a male, was not preaching, but rather two very anointed young female evangelists. They had the Word of God. My wife and I received the Lord that night and went on from that female led by the Spirit beginning to receive the Holy Ghost and to serve God. God saved both of us and our failing marriage through those two female preachers.

Give God the glory!
 

Enoch111

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Why do people present Adam as innocent in this way? He wasn't deceived yet deliberately partook. Eve sinned out of being deceived, Adam out of his own choice.
The Bible does not say that Adam was innocent. He was guilty as sin. But he was NOT deceived. Eve, on the other hand, chose to be deceived.
On top of that she also perverted and corrupted what God had said:

I. GOD SAID: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
EVE SAID: We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden
Do you see the subtle difference and the failure to acknowledge that every tree was there to be FREELY partaken of? (And there was a superabundance of trees, shrubs, plants, and herbs for their enjoyment)

II. GOD SAID:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it
EVE SAID: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden
Do you see the subtle difference? And how the proper designation of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was changed to "the tree in the midst of the garden" (as if there was no harm in it)?

III. GOD SAID:
For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
EVE SAID: God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Do you see the enormous difference? God said nothing about touching the tree, but He did say "SURELY DIE" not "perhaps (lest) ye shall die"? Even Satan had to quote the exact words of God ("surely die") then deny them! That should have been a red flag for Eve.

IV. EVE SUCCUMBED TO THE THREE PRIMARY LUSTS EVEN WHEN THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE

1. THE LUST OF THE FLESH:
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food...
2. THE LUST OF THE EYES:...and that it was pleasant to the eyes...
3. THE PRIDE OF LIFE:...and a tree to be desired to make one wise..

So Eve was FIRST guilty as sin, and then made Adam guilty as sin.
But at the same time, Adam had been negligent about the spiritual welfare of his wife, since she was his responsibility. How did it happen that she could dialogue with the devil while he twiddled his thumbs? And Adam was not in the least shocked by what she had done. He gladly partook of the fruit as though nothing earthshaking had happened. So in retrospect, Adam behaved like a fool, and the human race paid the price.
 

101G

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That's a good point. I never thought about missionaries. But what about 1 Tim. 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
first thanks the post, but in 1 Tim. 2:12 it is speaking of a "WIFE" and not all women. how do we know that it is speaking about a wife? it's right in the scriptures. just keep on reading down to, 1Tim 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".
STOP, and think. the only type of woman who suppose to be having children is a married one .... a "wife". so again here, the term "woman" is G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n. meaning a "wife"
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096

as said, don't read just 1 verse, but get the whole context so that one can understand fully. by reading unto verse 15 it clearly identifies what kind of woman it is the apostle is speaking of. here it's a "wife"

knowing this, it answeres 1Cor 14:34 "Let your women (wives) keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law".
for if their husband had taught them at home, (1 Tim. 2:12) there would be no need for 1 Cor 14:34, for it is clear, as the apostle said, 1Cor 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church".

again it's speaking of "Wives", because the only type of woman who have a "husband" is a married one.... a "WIFE". BINGO.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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what people must understand is that there is neither male nor female in christ, Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus". also this, 2Cor 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more". so the ugly sin of Sexsiem with these two scriptures just went out the door. there is no discrimination in the body of christ.

next time the Pastor, for your edification, the Female Pastor.

PICJAG.
 

Grailhunter

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Paul said it is good for man not to touch a woman. Hey guys live by that motto!
Some of the early Christians took this so seriously that they lived in tower, trees, and caves, to get away from the world.

He gave up marriage as a concession.
There is really no big push for family and children....as much as Christians would like it to be there. Christ loved children but no big push or guidance for family matters, except to put women in their place by stating a chain of command. Oh and women should wash the feet of the saints.

He also said they should remain silent in church and have no authority over man. lol I guess they never heard that old saying, no one is happy unless momma is happy. I don't know how that works in relation to authority. If you look into the history of women in Christian societies, it is a sad thing. Women did not get rights until a few decades ago.

So when Paul sat down and wrote letters to the churches, he said to himself, Here I write scriptures?
Did he? So now they are scriptures?

So why do we menz touch women? Why did Christianity not become celibate if that is the preferred way?
Christianity went on to adopt the belief that women were second rate citizens in religion and society, even though the Bible says there is no difference. Not withstanding she shall be saved in child bearing. Now that is an Idea! Not belief? As it is, and as it always will be, people pick out the scriptures they want to believe in.

Just like you and me, Paul's journey in Christianity was matter of learning. In the end he used women as deaconesses, and commended them. The scriptures are important but sometimes you have to stand back and look at the storyline.
Christ said you have to hate your mother and father to be his disciple....you might want to take that in context.

Common sense and fairness does apply, what is the alternative, cruelty and non-sense! Literal interpretation of the scriptures caused some bad thing for women, we are just now recovering from that non-sense. It is my opinion that Christianity has long suffered without the female presence in voice and leadership. It is my opinion, marriage and family is important, even though I do not have a whole lot of New Testament scriptures to back me up. Where would Christianity be today if women were equal decision makers throughout its history. As much blood shed? As many wars?
 
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Enoch111

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what people must understand is that there is neither male nor female in christ...
What people should understand is that verses should not be taken out of context and misapplied. Within the Body of Christ all distinctions are obliterated -- all are children of God by God's grace. But within the home and the local assembly, God has given Christians very specific instructions about the roles of men and women.
 

101G

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What people should understand is that verses should not be taken out of context and misapplied. Within the Body of Christ all distinctions are obliterated -- all are children of God by God's grace. But within the home and the local assembly, God has given Christians very specific instructions about the roles of men and women.
at home, yes, but at church, all rules applies in the work of Christ.

PICJAG.
 
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