10 different NT warning-types against eternal security

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Zachary

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I don't know what BAC stands for, I'm afraid.
No true believer will consciously engage in sinful ways,
for he seeks to please His heavenly Father.
Born Again Christian.
I agree, those with true saving belief-faith forsake habitual sinning.
And I'm here to warn those who are not, but need to be.
BTW, many in today's churches are involved in habitual unrepentant sinning.
.
 

Zachary

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John 3:29
“Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.”
You have free will to accept dozens of NT verses,
and
you have free will to reject dozens of NT verses!

I'm warning you ... you need to reconcile all of them.
Do you agree? ... And do you desire to?
.
 

Grailhunter

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You have free will to accept dozens of NT verses,
and
you have free will to reject dozens of NT verses!

I'm warning you ... you need to reconcile all of them.
Do you agree? ... And do you desire to?
.

Matthew 18:12-14
“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish."

Ephesians 2:8-9
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Colossians 2:12-14
"Having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled"
 
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justbyfaith

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ALL of you lived that sinning lifestyle.

the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God

In this, it appears that you are attempting to condemn all of us; not realizing that you are condemning yourself in the process.

We, not God or Jesus, are the buyers.

I beg to differ. Scripture teaches that we are the purchased possession.

So yes, God (even Jesus) is the buyer.

Of course it must appear that way since my understanding does not line up with yours. This is the way it frequently happens with people...

"All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits." Prov 16:2

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

These scriptures should not be used as an excuse to reject correction when it is administered to you.

It is written three times in the epistle to the Hebrews, "Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your heart."
 
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justbyfaith

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"Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your heart."
.
I always make it my endeavor to have a heart that is soft and malleable before the Lord. It is my constant prayer that He might form me into a vessel of honour and mercy; as clay in the hand of the potter.
 

Enoch111

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Would any of you care to see 10 more of these NT warning-types that refute eternal security?
Nothing in the Bible refutes the eternal security of the believer. But all must examine themselves if they are truly in the faith and in Christ. There are many who *profess* Christ, but all need to be born again.
 

Grailhunter

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"Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your heart."
.

1st John 1:9
“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

John 1:12
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,”

John 6:37
“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.”
 

amadeus

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I beg to differ. Scripture teaches that we are the purchased possession.

So yes, God (even Jesus) is the buyer.
You are right in that we are never more than stewards until and if we ever inherit, but as stewards we still during our allotted time have complete authority to use whatever we have received [the purchase price is in our own hands] anyway we choose. It is this choice, this authority that we must give to God. This is our price. This is what we must pay as often as necessary until and if we endure to the end with Him.

"...nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

These scriptures should not be used as an excuse to reject correction when it is administered to you.

It is written three times in the epistle to the Hebrews, "Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your heart."
Correction from God must be accepted, but for you to presume that what you say, or for me to presume that what I say, is that correction from God is another thing altogether. It is of course also possible for both of us to be wrong on a given point. If we do not admit the possibility that we are wrong, then we may be wrong even though the letter of our words may be right because our spirit is wrong.
 

Grailhunter

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"Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your heart."
.


John 10:27-29
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.”

Ephesians 4:30
“And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”

John 8:15 “You people judge according to the flesh, I am not judging anyone.”

John 12:47
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”


 

Zachary

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So, no one wishes to understand what is absolutely necessary to understand,
which is ... how to reconcile all of the NT verses re: eternal security.
News Flash:
it is utter foolishness to give up and reject half of the verses, i.e. my half.
 

Grailhunter

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So, no one wishes to understand what is absolutely necessary to understand,
which is ... how to reconcile all of the NT verses re: eternal security.
News Flash:
it is utter foolishness to give up and reject half of the verses, i.e. my half.

Bingo! Give that man a bear! You might want to read post #12 lol
 

justbyfaith

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Correction from God must be accepted, but for you to presume that what you say, or for me to presume that what I say, is that correction from God is another thing altogether.
I am merely saying that any time someone presumes to correct us, we need to consider deeply as to whether that correction is from the Lord or not. It would not be good to pass off what the other person is saying simply because they might be wrong; because everyone considers themself to be right. Seek the Holy Spirit as to how to receive any correction that is presented to you.

I am not even saying that the person was right in their correction of you. But I am saying that you ought not to discard it simply because everyone thinks they are right in what they believe. Everyone does; but this is no reason to discard what the other person is saying. We must needs be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and also seek Him when others presume to correct us; because their words may indeed be right on the money.

I'm certain that you already know all of this; but I say it also for the sake of others who might be watching; as a word of wisdom for all to follow.
 
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justbyfaith

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You are right in that we are never more than stewards until and if we ever inherit, but as stewards we still during our allotted time have complete authority to use whatever we have received [the purchase price is in our own hands] anyway we choose. It is this choice, this authority that we must give to God. This is our price. This is what we must pay as often as necessary until and if we endure to the end with Him.

"...nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

1Co 6:20, For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1Co 7:23, Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
 
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amadeus

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I am merely saying that any time someone presumes to correct us, we need to consider deeply as to whether that correction is from the Lord or not. It would not be good to pass off what the other person is saying simply because they might be wrong; because everyone considers themself to be right. Seek the Holy Spirit as to how to receive any correction that is presented to you.

I am not even saying that the person was right in their correction of you. But I am saying that you ought not to discard it simply because everyone thinks they are right in what they believe. Everyone does; but this is no reason to discard what the other person is saying. We must needs be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and also seek Him when others presume to correct us; because their words may indeed be right on the money.

I'm certain that you already know all of this; but I say it also for the sake of others who might be watching; as a word of wisdom for all to follow.
The "eyes to see" and the "ears to hear" are how the Holy Spirit in us sifts through it all. People with the Holy Spirit err when they quench the Holy Spirit in favor of their own ways.
 
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charity

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Sanctimonious? I surely and sincerely do hope not. I really did not presume to say that I was right while you were in error. Of course, I believe that I am right as does each person or if he were honest and could he would change, would he not?

Do you like some [many?] on this forum insist that you are right in any disagreement with anyone? I certainly strive Not do that myself... but I too am man who has very often erred. Over the years that I have strived to serve God, I have been corrected more than once so as to head more directly toward that Light... that is closer to God. What I do know is that still I continue to fall short of His glory very often indeed... but...

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." I John 3:2-3


Would you condemn every person who has not seen the pathway to God to precisely as you have seen it?

Give God the glory!
'In Whom (the Lord Jesus Christ) ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in Whom
(the Lord Jesus Christ) also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance

until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'

(Ephesians 1:13-14)

Hello @amadeus,

Forgive me, please, for calling you sanctimonious, I have had no peace about it since. However your entry #32 shocked me so very much, and your attempt to ward off criticism by using the word of God as your defence, just added insult to injury. This is not just a matter of a difference in interpretation, but something very much more serious.

* The words 'seal' and 'earnest' in Ephesians, have the meaning of 'surety': e.g., like when Judah stood as 'surety' for his brother Benjamin in Genesis 43:8-9:-

'And Judah said unto Israel his father,
Send the lad with me,
and we will arise and go;
that we may live, and not die,
both we, and thou, and also our little ones.
I will be surety for him;
of my hand shalt thou require him:
if I bring him not unto thee,
and set him before thee,
then let me bear the blame for ever:'


* We are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, and the Lord Jesus Christ is our 'surety': it therefore cannot be broken. The 'earnest' is like a promissory note, a bond which ensures our receipt of the inheritance promised.

* We are 'the purchased possession' for which Christ stands as surety, and we shall be 'redeemed' at the resurrection out from among the dead, when we will enter into our inheritance, in Christ.

* The seal and earnest rest with Christ ('in Whom' - above), and cannot therefore be lost or broken.

Praise God!
Praise His Holy Name!


In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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amadeus

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'In Whom (the Lord Jesus Christ) ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in Whom
(the Lord Jesus Christ) also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance

until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'

(Ephesians 1:13-14)

Hello @amadeus,

Forgive me, please, for calling you sanctimonious, I have had no peace about it since. However your entry #32 shocked me so very much, and your attempt to ward off criticism by using the word of God as your defence, just added insult to injury. This is not just a matter of a difference in interpretation, but something very much more serious.
Apology accepted. As to me attempting to defend my beliefs, I must do what I must according to my own understanding of God's plan. I cannot change anyone's mind unless God is in the change, but the reverse is also true. There is apparently a chasm of difference between us. On both sides the scriptures are used but the chasm remains for God's purposes. Are we both sincere and steadfast in where we stand? Apparently so, and I bid thee well in thy walk with Him as He leads you.

Give God the glory!


* The words 'seal' and 'earnest' in Ephesians, have the meaning of 'surety': e.g., like when Judah stood as 'surety' for his brother Benjamin in Genesis 43:8-9:-

'And Judah said unto Israel his father,
Send the lad with me,
and we will arise and go;
that we may live, and not die,
both we, and thou, and also our little ones.
I will be surety for him;
of my hand shalt thou require him:
if I bring him not unto thee,
and set him before thee,
then let me bear the blame for ever:'


* We are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, and the Lord Jesus Christ is our 'surety': it therefore cannot be broken. The 'earnest' is like a promissory note, a bond which ensures our receipt of the inheritance promised.

* We are 'the purchased possession' for which Christ stands as surety, and we shall be 'redeemed' at the resurrection out from among the dead, when we will enter into our inheritance, in Christ.

* The seal and earnest rest with Christ ('in Whom' - above), and cannot therefore be lost or broken.

Praise God!
Praise His Holy Name!


In Christ Jesus
Chris

Without a whole lot of additional discussion, I sincerely believe you have misunderstood. The surety was/[is] not a final payment. Sometimes as with Tamar and Judah the surety is given but there is deception involved and fault on both sides. Tamar was wrong in the way she pursued it playing the part of a prostitute but... as Judah admits...

"She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more." Gen 38:26

So who is the Tamar and who is the Judah, and who is righteous in the eyes of God? God does know and perhaps there is right on both sides, for Tamar from that evil connection gave birth to twins, only one which was in the messianic line... and the first was last.

Things are mixed up to the carnal eyes of men, but to God everything is clear. We...? We still see it as through a glass darkly until we arrive at that face to face vision of Him. Help us dear Lord!
 
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Enoch111

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Can BACs get away with a sinning lifestyle whilst non-believers cannot get away with it? How ludicrous!
You have mixed up a couple of things in your theology.

1. A BAC (presumably a born-again Christian) who is truly born-again will have FORSAKEN his or her sinning lifestyle.

2. An unbeliever will CONTINUE in his or her sins until they repent and are converted.

You seem to have forgotten the difference between sheep and goats, but God does not.
 

Enoch111

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The surety was/[is] not a final payment.
The final payment was made at the cross. The metaphor of the Holy Spirit as the earnest or surety of our ultimate redemption must be viewed in the light of all Scriptures pertaining to God's salvation.

Those who have been born again have become children of God by the grace of God and through the finished work of Christ. And they cannot be unborn. The Holy Spirit is given to believers as a GIFT, which cannot be withdrawn. Christ is given to believers as a GIFT which cannot be withdrawn. Eternal life is given to believers as a GIFT which cannot be withdrawn. Spiritual gifts are given to believers as GIFTS which cannot be withdrawn. All of this is purely by the grace of God.
 
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amadeus

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The final payment was made at the cross. The metaphor of the Holy Spirit as the earnest or surety of our ultimate redemption must be viewed in the light of all Scriptures pertaining to God's salvation.

Those who have been born again have become children of God by the grace of God and through the finished work of Christ. And they cannot be unborn. The Holy Spirit is given to believers as a GIFT, which cannot be withdrawn. Christ is given to believers as a GIFT which cannot be withdrawn.
There is no difference between what men are when they are born again [born from above] than men were prior to disobeying God that first time. What happened the first time is that Adam and Eve cut themselves and their offspring off from access to that other Tree in the Garden, the Tree of Life. The born again have the opportunity to do right for themselves that in which their first carnal parents failed. We may proceed to the Tree of Life as overcomers, if overcomers we ever are. Like those first parents it is also possible for us to fail... even after being born again.

The gifts given by God may not be withdrawn from us once given, but we may indeed misuse or abuse or ignore those gifts as a means to accomplish God's purpose for giving them to us.

Eternal life is given to believers as a GIFT which cannot be withdrawn. Spiritual gifts are given to believers as GIFTS which cannot be withdrawn. All of this is purely by the grace of God.

I agree that once a person has completely overcome the world of his own carnal ways as Jesus did, then he may partake of the Tree of Life. Only those who have already completely overcome may partake. Any one who still ever sins at all is precluded. We stay in the fight to the end on the Lord's side. Then, if we have done so, the Tree of Life is before us and access is given.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7
 
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