Earth, Created to stand forever

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ScottA

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I believe your perception of "Spiritual Body" is not complete?

Jesus Christ in his glorified tangible body of flesh and bone was 100% spiritual eternal.

The Angels that ate with Abraham And Lot were eternal "Spiritual Beings" with tangible bodies that ate and drank.

Possibly the world's
impression of female angels with long hair, harps, floating around in the air?

"Human Flesh And Blood" can't inherit the kingdom.

Jesus Christ Maintains Glorified Flesh And Bone, That Is Eternal.

Ephesians 5:30KJV
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

In Love
The issue is not about the make up of the spiritual body, but rather whether the the spiritual body is also a "physical body" of "flesh" - which it is not.

Nonetheless, in addition to your Ephesians 5:30 quote, Paul also said, that "to live is Christ", meaning...in the world, referring to "those who are alive and remain." Therefore it does not pertain to what kind of body we have in the kingdom of heaven.

But the whole "glorified body" idea comes from the teachings of men - it's not biblical, and cannot be substantiated through the scriptures.
 
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ScottA

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LOL I'm done here.
Yes...you are.

But don't forget to make good on your own judgement:

"When your belief conflicts with the scripture, the right thing to do is change your belief to that of what the scripture tells you. That's what it means to be humble and teachable. You cannot grow spiritually if you refuse to change when you are wrong."
 
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Truth7t7

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The issue is not about the make up of the spiritual body, but rather whether the the spiritual body is also a "physical body" of "flesh" - which it is not.

Nonetheless, in addition to your Ephesians 5:30 quote, Paul also said, that "to live is Christ", meaning...in the world, referring to "those who are alive and remain." Therefore it does not pertain to what kind of body we have in the kingdom of heaven.

But the whole "glorified body" idea comes from the teachings of men - it's not biblical, and cannot be substantiated through the scriptures.
We will disagree, the "Spiritual Body" Jesus had after the resurrection, of flesh and bone, could be touched, ate and drank food, and had no physical boundaries in this world, as Jesus appeared with this glorified body while the doors were closed.

The future eternal kingdom is going to have tangible water from the river of life, fruit from the tree of life, vineyards, fish, a recreation of the garden of eden.

Jesus Christ In His Glorified Eternal Body, Maintains The Wounds Of Calvary, "Eternally"

Zechariah 13:4-6KJV
4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

We will disagree, I'm out :)
 
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ScottA

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We will disagree, the "Spiritual Body" Jesus had after the resurrection, of flesh and bone, could be touched, ate and drank food, and had no physical boundaries in this world, as Jesus appeared with this glorified body while the doors were closed.

The future eternal kingdom is going to have tangible water from the river of life, fruit from the tree of life, vineyards, fish, a recreation of the garden of eden.

Jesus Christ In His Glorified Eternal Body, Maintains The Wounds Of Calvary, "Eternally"

Zechariah 13:4-6KJV
4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

We will disagree, I'm out :)
You apparently are blind to anything but your own way of viewing things...you missed the point completely. The contention is not a "spiritual body", but a a "physical body" of "flesh."
 

Harvest 1874

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Acts 3:19-21-At that time, Peter foretold, Jehovah would “send forth” his Son in the sense that He would allow Jesus to carry out his role as the central figure in God’s purposes. The Bible describes the event in symbolic language: “And [God’s heavenly organization] gave birth to a son, a male, [God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ] who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod.”—Revelation 12:5.
Acts 1:11 I disagree that anyone including his disciples on earth will literally see him if that is what you are trying to say here if not my bad.
the only ones who will literally see Jesus is those of the Heavenly calling who are resurrected into Heaven.

1Thess.4:16,17
anointed Christians who died before Christ’s presence were raised to heavenly life ahead of those who were still alive during Christ’s presence. This means that the first resurrection must have begun early in Christ’s presence, and it continues “during his presence.” (1 Corinthians 15:23) Rather than occurring all at once, the first resurrection takes place over a period of time.


Jesus descends, that is, turns his attention to them, and resurrects them to spirit life, giving them “a white robe.” Afterward, those who are still alive as humans finish their earthly course, many of them dying violently at the hands of opposers. They do not, however, sleep in death as their predecessors did. Rather, when they die, they are instantly changed—“in the twinkling of an eye”—caught away to the heavens to be with Jesus and fellow members of the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:50-52

I see nothing in 1Thess. 4:16,17 that makes me believe that Jesus will literally be in our atmosphere and resurrect any of the anointed into our atmosphere. Earths atmosphere is not the home Jesus prepared for them, why wouldn't Jesus simply resurrect those of the heavenly calling straight into Heaven, what's the purpose of resurrecting them into our atmosphere first and spending any amount of time there, like I said it is not their home that Jesus prepare for them. I disagree with a literal physical appearance by Jesus because I believe it contradicts scripture, I'm not going to agree with a literal physical appearance by Jesus simply because the words "meet the Lord in the air" are in this scripture.

In regards to Act 3:19-21 you state: At that time, Peter foretold, Jehovah would “send forth” his Son in the sense that He would allow Jesus to carry out his role as the central figure in God’s purposes. The Bible describes the event in symbolic language: “And [God’s heavenly organization] gave birth to a son, a male, [God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ] who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod.” (Rev 12:5)

In Reply, first of all there’s no connection between these two texts as you imagine, attempting to equate a literal statement with a symbolic statement so that you can imply the whole thing is basically symbolic is just a ruse. The scriptures which we quoted are quite implicit it states that the heavens must retain our Lord UNTIL the times of restitution of all things, upon which time he would be sent from those heavens.

If we followed your logic that our Lord sitting upon his throne merely turns his attention toward the affairs of earth then he never leaves heaven, the heavens still retain him.

In regards to Acts 1:11 you state: I disagree that anyone including his disciples on earth will literally see him if that is what you are trying to say here if not my bad. The only ones who will literally see Jesus is those of the Heavenly calling who are resurrected into Heaven.

In Reply, you are correct on both accounts, we did not imply that anyone would see him physically. When we stated at his return that he would be known (seen) only by his faithful and watchful servants, we meant seen in the since of being recognized as present by means of the various signs given, but most importantly by the more sure word of prophecy.

Not until we have experienced our change, from flesh to spirit, until we are like him, will we see him as he is. (1 John 3:2) As for the rest of mankind, what say the scriptures? "Without holiness no man shall see the Lord." (Heb. 12:14) QUESTION: Is the world holy?

In regards to 1 Thess 4:16, 17 you state: anointed Christians who died before Christ’s presence were raised to heavenly life ahead of those who were still alive during Christ’s presence. This means that the first resurrection must have begun early in Christ’s presence, and it continues “during his presence.” (1 Cor 15:23) Rather than occurring all at once, the first resurrection takes place over a period of time.

In reply, with this first part we are in full agreement.

You state: Jesus descends, that is, turns his attention to them, and resurrects them to spirit life, giving them “a white robe.” Afterward, those who are still alive as humans finish their earthly course, many of them dying violently at the hands of opposers. They do not, however, sleep in death as their predecessors did. Rather, when they die, they are instantly changed—“in the twinkling of an eye”—caught away to the heavens to be with Jesus and fellow members of the body of Christ. (1 Cor 15:50-52)

In Reply, here once again we agree fully with the exception of the thought that the heavens still retain him and that from there he simply turns his attention to the resurrection of the saints.

You state: I see nothing in 1 Thess. 4:16, 17 that makes me believe that Jesus will literally be in our atmosphere and resurrect any of the anointed into our atmosphere. Earth’s atmosphere is not the home Jesus prepared for them, why wouldn't Jesus simply resurrect those of the heavenly calling straight into Heaven, what's the purpose of resurrecting them into our atmosphere first and spending any amount of time there, like I said it is not their home that Jesus prepare for them. I disagree with a literal physical appearance by Jesus because I believe it contradicts scripture, I'm not going to agree with a literal physical appearance by Jesus simply because the words "meet the Lord in the air" are in this scripture.

In Reply, No one said that the earth’s atmosphere was to be the home of the risen saints where did you get this idea? Nevertheless our Lord having prepared a heavenly abode for this new creation does not imply that they are to be immediately ushered into it. They only remain in the earth’s atmosphere until the bride is complete; this gathering together in the air is the marriage. When the last member of the Body shall have finished his course and has been changed into the glory of the Lord the marriage will be consummated, brought to perfection, only then as one body, complete will the Lord present them before the Father in heaven.

To be caught to the air implies to be brought into the realm of spiritual control of the earth--in kingdom power and great glory, the same spiritual ruler-ship which is presently controlled by the present "prince of the power of the air." (Eph 2:2)

“As Satan has for a long time been “the prince of the power of the air,” “the prince of this world,” so Messiah, after binding Satan for a thousand years, will assume His rightful title as the King of this world, the King of Glory. His Power will also be the “Power of the Air,” or a spirit power; but, unlike that of Satan. It will be a Holy Spirit power. His saints will be called away with Him, to share His Throne and Empire, “the Power of the Air,” His Spiritual Kingdom.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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In regards to Act 3:19-21 you state: At that time, Peter foretold, Jehovah would “send forth” his Son in the sense that He would allow Jesus to carry out his role as the central figure in God’s purposes. The Bible describes the event in symbolic language: “And [God’s heavenly organization] gave birth to a son, a male, [God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ] who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod.” (Rev 12:5)

In Reply, first of all there’s no connection between these two texts as you imagine, attempting to equate a literal statement with a symbolic statement so that you can imply the whole thing is basically symbolic is just a ruse. The scriptures which we quoted are quite implicit it states that the heavens must retain our Lord UNTIL the times of restitution of all things, upon which time he would be sent from those heavens.

If we followed your logic that our Lord sitting upon his throne merely turns his attention toward the affairs of earth then he never leaves heaven, the heavens still retain him.

In regards to Acts 1:11 you state: I disagree that anyone including his disciples on earth will literally see him if that is what you are trying to say here if not my bad. The only ones who will literally see Jesus is those of the Heavenly calling who are resurrected into Heaven.

In Reply, you are correct on both accounts, we did not imply that anyone would see him physically. When we stated at his return that he would be known (seen) only by his faithful and watchful servants, we meant seen in the since of being recognized as present by means of the various signs given, but most importantly by the more sure word of prophecy.

Not until we have experienced our change, from flesh to spirit, until we are like him, will we see him as he is. (1 John 3:2) As for the rest of mankind, what say the scriptures? "Without holiness no man shall see the Lord." (Heb. 12:14) QUESTION: Is the world holy?

In regards to 1 Thess 4:16, 17 you state: anointed Christians who died before Christ’s presence were raised to heavenly life ahead of those who were still alive during Christ’s presence. This means that the first resurrection must have begun early in Christ’s presence, and it continues “during his presence.” (1 Cor 15:23) Rather than occurring all at once, the first resurrection takes place over a period of time.

In reply, with this first part we are in full agreement.

You state: Jesus descends, that is, turns his attention to them, and resurrects them to spirit life, giving them “a white robe.” Afterward, those who are still alive as humans finish their earthly course, many of them dying violently at the hands of opposers. They do not, however, sleep in death as their predecessors did. Rather, when they die, they are instantly changed—“in the twinkling of an eye”—caught away to the heavens to be with Jesus and fellow members of the body of Christ. (1 Cor 15:50-52)

In Reply, here once again we agree fully with the exception of the thought that the heavens still retain him and that from there he simply turns his attention to the resurrection of the saints.

You state: I see nothing in 1 Thess. 4:16, 17 that makes me believe that Jesus will literally be in our atmosphere and resurrect any of the anointed into our atmosphere. Earth’s atmosphere is not the home Jesus prepared for them, why wouldn't Jesus simply resurrect those of the heavenly calling straight into Heaven, what's the purpose of resurrecting them into our atmosphere first and spending any amount of time there, like I said it is not their home that Jesus prepare for them. I disagree with a literal physical appearance by Jesus because I believe it contradicts scripture, I'm not going to agree with a literal physical appearance by Jesus simply because the words "meet the Lord in the air" are in this scripture.

In Reply, No one said that the earth’s atmosphere was to be the home of the risen saints where did you get this idea? Nevertheless our Lord having prepared a heavenly abode for this new creation does not imply that they are to be immediately ushered into it. They only remain in the earth’s atmosphere until the bride is complete; this gathering together in the air is the marriage. When the last member of the Body shall have finished his course and has been changed into the glory of the Lord the marriage will be consummated, brought to perfection, only then as one body, complete will the Lord present them before the Father in heaven.

To be caught to the air implies to be brought into the realm of spiritual control of the earth--in kingdom power and great glory, the same spiritual ruler-ship which is presently controlled by the present "prince of the power of the air." (Eph 2:2)

“As Satan has for a long time been “the prince of the power of the air,” “the prince of this world,” so Messiah, after binding Satan for a thousand years, will assume His rightful title as the King of this world, the King of Glory. His Power will also be the “Power of the Air,” or a spirit power; but, unlike that of Satan. It will be a Holy Spirit power. His saints will be called away with Him, to share His Throne and Empire, “the Power of the Air,” His Spiritual Kingdom.

I understand that you disagree with me, that's fine but you haven't said anything that convinced me that your right about what you have said either, so we have to agree to disagree. I however don't think anyone likes being called a deceiver or someone who is trying to trick someone, I mean "ruse" really. I have read a lot of stuff I don't agree with on this website, but I honestly can say I never thought of anyone to be a deceiver or they were trying to trick someone, I honestly thought they were simply stating what they honestly believed and their motivation wasn't that they were trying to deceive me or trick me. You don't agree with something someone says or believes, there is nothing wrong with that, but when people start judging people for expressing their beliefs, I'm always going to be against that because I know people can disagree without doing that. I'm sorry you think that I'm a deceiver or someone who is trying to trick someone. That's not who I am, I'm just stating what I truly believe, nobody has to agree with it.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV I
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Psalm 46:6KJV
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earthmelted.

Psalm 97:5KJV
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

The scriptures show us that a Heaven and Earth passed away during the flood of Noah day. You honestly believe this to be an entirely new universe and entirely new Earth . The literal Heaven and Earth that existed in Noah's day are the same Earth and heaven today. So the heaven and Earth being discussed in the scriptures must be symbolic.
 
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Davy

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Glancing at some recent posts here, there seems to be some question as to the duration of the earth, i.e. specifically as to how long it will last. Various scriptures have been applied some suggesting the earth is to be destroyed others that it will remain. As all true Bible Students know the Bible is the Living Word of God and therefore cannot contradict itself, if therefore something seems to be a contradiction it is usually found that the fault lies not with God’s word but with ourselves in our not properly interpreting a questionable scripture or text. The number one mistake is that someone tried to force a literal interpretation on something that is clearly symbolic.

Naturally the first scripture used in support of the fact that the earth abides forever is found in Eccl 1:4,

One generation passes away, and another generation comes; but the earth abides forever.”

Likewise we have,

“For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.” (Isa 45:18)

“Bless Jehovah, O my soul. O Jehovah my God, thou art very great; Thou art clothed with honor and majesty: Who covers thyself with light as with a garment; Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain…Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved forever.” (Psa 104:1, 4)

These scriptures in regards to the length or duration of the earth seem pretty much straight forward, and thus are taken as literal statements of fact. The earth abideth forever, He hath established it that, it should not be moved FOREVER, pretty plain isn’t it?

Now on the other hand, what shall we make of the following scriptures?

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matt 24:35)

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thy hands: They shall perish; but thou continues: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment” (Heb 1:10, 11) a quote of Psa 102:25, 26

Therefore wait ye for me, saith Jehovah, until the day that I rise up to the prey; for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger; for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.” (Zep 3:8)

But the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men.” (2 Pet 3:7)

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” (2 Pet 3:10)

In these scriptures we seem to have an apparent contradiction, but that is ONLY if they are taken literally, rather than symbolically as they were intended.

The “heavens” and the “earth” here mentioned do not refer to the literal heavens and earth, but rather to the symbolic heavens and earth, that is, the “heavens” here mentioned represent the spiritual controlling powers presently in control, Satan, the fallen angels with him, and also his master work, ecclesiasticism, the present religious systems.

The “earth” here mentioned is not the literal either, but rather refers to the present social order, society as it is now presently organized under Satan’s control.

It is to these “heavens” and “earth” that the foregoing scriptures had referred, these are they, which shall, perish, which are reserved for the “fire” of the Great Day, The Day of His Vengeance, The Great Time of Trouble, these shall be burned up, dissolved (melt) with fervent heat (turmoil, strife, anarchy, human passion and wrath).

This in order to make way for the NEWheavens” and “earth” (2 Pet 3:13) New spiritual powers, Christ’s Kingdom, our Lord taking the place of Satan, and his body the Church, taking the place of the fallen angles, a new religious order or system, one based upon truth and righteousness. A NEWearth”, a new social order, reorganized on the new basis of love and justice. This is the new earth symbolically, but it is the same earth (or globe) literality.

In 2 Peter 3, Peter gave previous... examples of God's destructions involving the earth using water. Those times didn't literally destroy the whole earth de facto, but only cleansed the surface of the earth. That is the context for destruction in 2 Peter 3, not some new idea that God is going to destroy the whole planet turning it into some kind of asteroid belt. So there is no contradiction with what is said in the OT. This earth is forever, but what is on it's surface is not. The KJV word for "elements" can be misleading, because the Greek word isn't really about earthly matter, it's about a time, a world age involving man and his works. The end of Hebrews 12 also shows this, a destruction of man's works off the earth, with the creation remaining.

Brethren should read the Old Testament examples of how accurate God's Fire coming down out of Heaven upon the earth can be. It didn't harm the earth, it just burned up what God wanted burned. (2 Kings 1:9-15; 1 Kings 18; Numbers 11; Leviticus 10)
 
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marks

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Heaven and earth fled away, and no place was found for them . . . and I saw a new heaven and new earth. How hard is it?
 
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marks

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And . . . for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.
 

Davy

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And . . . for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Doing that kind of interpretation is like taking a book on electronics and reading just a paragraph in a latter chapter, and then thinking to know all about electronics. God didn't give us just one example of an event in His Word. He gave us several, often in separate Bible Books. They all have to be weighed within their context and then all understood.

Gen 1:6-9
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
KJV


Those waters were originally spread over the whole earth at Gen.1:2. The way God created today's sky atmosphere around the earth was to take part of those waters overspread upon the earth and move them up to form our cloud atmosphere. That's the "firmament" talked about above. So today's remaining seas on the earth in final... ???
 

marks

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Doing that kind of interpretation is like taking a book on electronics and reading just a paragraph in a latter chapter, and then thinking to know all about electronics. God didn't give us just one example of an event in His Word. He gave us several, often in separate Bible Books. They all have to be weighed within their context and then all understood.

Gen 1:6-9
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
KJV


Those waters were originally spread over the whole earth at Gen.1:2. The way God created today's sky atmosphere around the earth was to take part of those waters overspread upon the earth and move them up to form our cloud atmosphere. That's the "firmament" talked about above. So today's remaining seas on the earth in final... ???

Actually, I think that's the kind of interpretation that allows you to understand what electronics are and do. If you can't receive the simplicity of a transistor, how will you understand the rest?

In your passage quoted above, what does this say about whether this earth goes away or not? I'm not sure I understand what you are seeing here. Can you explain more this passage to me, and how it teaches that this earth remains?

Much love!
 

Davy

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Actually, I think that's the kind of interpretation that allows you to understand what electronics are and do. If you can't receive the simplicity of a transistor, how will you understand the rest?

In your passage quoted above, what does this say about whether this earth goes away or not? I'm not sure I understand what you are seeing here. Can you explain more this passage to me, and how it teaches that this earth remains?

Much love!

Study of transistors are far into the study of electronics brother. Electron flow is usually first.

If you study the Scriptures and my last question more carefully, you'll come to it.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Heaven and earth fled away, and no place was found for them . . . and I saw a new heaven and new earth. How hard is it?


And . . . for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.


There are 4 recorded predictions in the most widely owned and read book, which is also widely misunderstood and ignored—the Bible.
They actually foretell a future that is very bright. Moreover, these four key prophecies outline what your future and that of your loved ones can be.

The first is found in Isaiah chapter 65. At
Isaiah 65:17-19: “Here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart. But exult, you people, and be joyful forever in what I am creating. For here I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation. And I will be joyful in Jerusalem and exult in my people; and no more will there be heard in her the sound of weeping or the sound of a plaintive cry.” Look at the expression“new heavens and a new earth.” This is the first of four occurrences of that phrase in the Bible, and these four passages can have a direct bearing on our future, even foretelling it.

The initial fulfillment of Isaiah 65:17-19 involved the ancient Jews who, as Isaiah accurately predicted, did return to their homeland, where they reestablished pure worship. (Ezra 1:1-4; 3:1-4) That realization can help us to see what Isaiah meant by new heavens and a new earth. We do not have to speculate, as some do, about vague prophecies of Nostradamus or other human prognosticators. The Bible itself clarifies what Isaiah meant.

In the Bible, “earth” does not always refer to our globe. For instance, Psalm 96:1 says literally: ‘Sing to Jehovah, all the earth.’ We know that our planet—the terra firma and the vast oceans—cannot sing. People sing. Yes, Psalm 96:1 is referring to the people on the earth.* But Isaiah 65:17 also mentions “new heavens.” If the “earth” represents a new society of people in the Jews’ homeland, what are the “new heavens”?

The Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by M’Clintock and Strong, states: “Wherever the scene of a prophetic vision is laid, heaven signifies . . . the whole assembly of the ruling powers . . . being over and ruling the subjects, as the natural heaven stands over and rules the earth.” As to the combination phrase “heaven and earth,” the Cyclopædia explains that ‘in prophetic language the phrase signifies the political condition of persons of different ranks. The heaven is the sovereignty; the earth is the peasantry, men who are ruled by superiors.’

When the Jews returned to their homeland, they gained what might be called a new system of things. There was a new ruling body. Zerubbabel, a descendant of King David, was governor, and Joshua was high priest. (Haggai 1:1, 12; 2:21; Zechariah 6:11) These constituted “new heavens.” Over what? The “new heavens” were over “a new earth,” the cleansed society of people who were back in their land in order to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple for worshiping Jehovah. Hence, in this real sense, there were new heavens and a new earth in the fulfillment involving the Jews at that time.

The apostle Peter wrote his letter over 500 years after the Jews returned to their homeland. As one of Jesus’ apostles, Peter was writing to the followers of Christ, “the Lord” mentioned at 2 Peter 3:2. In 2Pe 3 verse 4, Peter brings up Jesus’ “promised presence,” which makes the prophecy very pertinent today. I believe there is ample evidence showing that since World War I, Jesus has been present in the sense of having authority as Ruler in God’s heavenly Kingdom. (Revelation 6:1-8;11:15, 18) This takes on special meaning in view of something else that Peter foretold in this chapter.

We read at 2 Peter 3:13: “There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” You may already have learned that Jesus in heaven is the key Ruler in the “new heavens.” (Luke 1:32, 33) Yet, other Bible texts indicate that he does not rule alone. Jesus promised that the apostles and some others like them would have a place in heaven. In the book of Hebrews, the apostle Paul described such ones as “partakers of the heavenly calling.” And Jesus said that those of this group would sit on thrones in heaven with him. (Hebrews 3:1; Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:28-30;John 14:2, 3) The point is that others reign with Jesus as part of the new heavens. Then what did Peter mean by the term “new earth”?

As with the ancient fulfillment—the return of the Jews to their homeland—the current fulfillment of 2 Peter 3:13 involves people who submit to rulership by the new heavens. These make up the basis of “a new earth” in the sense that they form a global society of all nationalities, languages, and races, and they work together in submission to the reigning King, Jesus Christ. A significant fact is that you can be part of this!—Micah 4:1-4.

As we examine the context of 2 Peter chapter 3, we find indications of a great change ahead. In 2Pe 3 verses 5 and 6, Peter writes about the Flood of Noah’s day, the Deluge that ended the wicked world back then. In 2Pe 3 verse 7, Peter mentions that “the heavens and the earth that are now,” both the rulerships and the masses of people, are reserved for “the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.” This confirms that the phrase “the heavens and the earth that are now” refers, not to the material universe, but to humans and their rulerships.

Peter explains thereafter that the coming day of Jehovah will bring about a great cleansing, making way for the new heavens and new earth mentioned in 2Pe 3 verse 13. Note the end of that verse—“in these righteousness is to dwell.” Does that not suggest that some major changes for the better must occur? We have looked at the occurrence of the phrase “new heavens and a new earth” in Isaiah chapter 65 and another instance in 2 Peter chapter 3. Now turn to Revelation chapter 21, which contains one other occurrence of this expression in the Bible.

John The apostle begins with the thrilling words: “I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.” Based on what we have seen in Isaiah chapter 65 and 2 Peter chapter 3, we can be sure that this does not mean replacing the literal heavens and our planet, with its watery deep. As the preceding chapters showed, wicked people and their rulerships, including the invisible ruler Satan, will be removed. Yes, the promise here is of a new system of things involving people on earth.

We are assured of this as we move into this wonderful prophecy. The end of Re 21 verse 3 speaks of the time when God will be with mankind, turning his beneficent attention toward people doing his will. (Ezekiel 43:7) John continues in Re 21 verses 4, 5: “He [Jehovah] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.
 

marks

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There are 4 recorded predictions in the most widely owned and read book, which is also widely misunderstood and ignored—the Bible.
They actually foretell a future that is very bright. Moreover, these four key prophecies outline what your future and that of your loved ones can be.

The first is found in Isaiah chapter 65. At
Isaiah 65:17-19: “Here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart. But exult, you people, and be joyful forever in what I am creating. For here I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation. And I will be joyful in Jerusalem and exult in my people; and no more will there be heard in her the sound of weeping or the sound of a plaintive cry.” Look at the expression“new heavens and a new earth.” This is the first of four occurrences of that phrase in the Bible, and these four passages can have a direct bearing on our future, even foretelling it.

The initial fulfillment of Isaiah 65:17-19 involved the ancient Jews who, as Isaiah accurately predicted, did return to their homeland, where they reestablished pure worship. (Ezra 1:1-4; 3:1-4) That realization can help us to see what Isaiah meant by new heavens and a new earth. We do not have to speculate, as some do, about vague prophecies of Nostradamus or other human prognosticators. The Bible itself clarifies what Isaiah meant.

In the Bible, “earth” does not always refer to our globe. For instance, Psalm 96:1 says literally: ‘Sing to Jehovah, all the earth.’ We know that our planet—the terra firma and the vast oceans—cannot sing. People sing. Yes, Psalm 96:1 is referring to the people on the earth.* But Isaiah 65:17 also mentions “new heavens.” If the “earth” represents a new society of people in the Jews’ homeland, what are the “new heavens”?

The Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by M’Clintock and Strong, states: “Wherever the scene of a prophetic vision is laid, heaven signifies . . . the whole assembly of the ruling powers . . . being over and ruling the subjects, as the natural heaven stands over and rules the earth.” As to the combination phrase “heaven and earth,” the Cyclopædia explains that ‘in prophetic language the phrase signifies the political condition of persons of different ranks. The heaven is the sovereignty; the earth is the peasantry, men who are ruled by superiors.’

When the Jews returned to their homeland, they gained what might be called a new system of things. There was a new ruling body. Zerubbabel, a descendant of King David, was governor, and Joshua was high priest. (Haggai 1:1, 12; 2:21; Zechariah 6:11) These constituted “new heavens.” Over what? The “new heavens” were over “a new earth,” the cleansed society of people who were back in their land in order to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple for worshiping Jehovah. Hence, in this real sense, there were new heavens and a new earth in the fulfillment involving the Jews at that time.

The apostle Peter wrote his letter over 500 years after the Jews returned to their homeland. As one of Jesus’ apostles, Peter was writing to the followers of Christ, “the Lord” mentioned at 2 Peter 3:2. In 2Pe 3 verse 4, Peter brings up Jesus’ “promised presence,” which makes the prophecy very pertinent today. I believe there is ample evidence showing that since World War I, Jesus has been present in the sense of having authority as Ruler in God’s heavenly Kingdom. (Revelation 6:1-8;11:15, 18) This takes on special meaning in view of something else that Peter foretold in this chapter.

We read at 2 Peter 3:13: “There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” You may already have learned that Jesus in heaven is the key Ruler in the “new heavens.” (Luke 1:32, 33) Yet, other Bible texts indicate that he does not rule alone. Jesus promised that the apostles and some others like them would have a place in heaven. In the book of Hebrews, the apostle Paul described such ones as “partakers of the heavenly calling.” And Jesus said that those of this group would sit on thrones in heaven with him. (Hebrews 3:1; Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:28-30;John 14:2, 3) The point is that others reign with Jesus as part of the new heavens. Then what did Peter mean by the term “new earth”?

As with the ancient fulfillment—the return of the Jews to their homeland—the current fulfillment of 2 Peter 3:13 involves people who submit to rulership by the new heavens. These make up the basis of “a new earth” in the sense that they form a global society of all nationalities, languages, and races, and they work together in submission to the reigning King, Jesus Christ. A significant fact is that you can be part of this!—Micah 4:1-4.

As we examine the context of 2 Peter chapter 3, we find indications of a great change ahead. In 2Pe 3 verses 5 and 6, Peter writes about the Flood of Noah’s day, the Deluge that ended the wicked world back then. In 2Pe 3 verse 7, Peter mentions that “the heavens and the earth that are now,” both the rulerships and the masses of people, are reserved for “the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.” This confirms that the phrase “the heavens and the earth that are now” refers, not to the material universe, but to humans and their rulerships.

Peter explains thereafter that the coming day of Jehovah will bring about a great cleansing, making way for the new heavens and new earth mentioned in 2Pe 3 verse 13. Note the end of that verse—“in these righteousness is to dwell.” Does that not suggest that some major changes for the better must occur? We have looked at the occurrence of the phrase “new heavens and a new earth” in Isaiah chapter 65 and another instance in 2 Peter chapter 3. Now turn to Revelation chapter 21, which contains one other occurrence of this expression in the Bible.

John The apostle begins with the thrilling words: “I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.” Based on what we have seen in Isaiah chapter 65 and 2 Peter chapter 3, we can be sure that this does not mean replacing the literal heavens and our planet, with its watery deep. As the preceding chapters showed, wicked people and their rulerships, including the invisible ruler Satan, will be removed. Yes, the promise here is of a new system of things involving people on earth.

We are assured of this as we move into this wonderful prophecy. The end of Re 21 verse 3 speaks of the time when God will be with mankind, turning his beneficent attention toward people doing his will. (Ezekiel 43:7) John continues in Re 21 verses 4, 5: “He [Jehovah] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.
That's a pretty good explanation about how these words don't mean what they say in normal usage. But the new earth is just that, not a "new kosmos", which would be your society of man, rather, new ges, the orbiting rock.

Much love!
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The new earth is just that, not a "new kosmos", which would be your society of man, rather, new ges, the orbiting rock.

Much love!

I don't believe this planet to be destroyed but instead the wicked world of mankind simply because that's how I believe the scriptures show it to be. Other people don't have to agree with me. But nothing anyone has said in which they believe has convinced me the scriptures go along with there belief that they say are in the scriptures. The earth will continue to be inhabited, but not by a crooked and twisted generation. The psalmist said that in God’s due time, only ‘the righteous will possess it.’—Psalm 37:2

The word World is the usual English term for translating the Greek koʹsmos in all of its occurrences in the Christian Greek Scriptures except 1 Peter 3:3, where it is rendered “adornment.” “World” can mean (1) humankind as a whole, apart from their moral condition or course of life, (2) the framework of human circumstances into which a person is born and in which he lives (and in this sense it is at times quite similar to the Greek ai·onʹ, “system of things”), or (3) the mass of mankind apart from Jehovah’s approved servants.

The King James Version used “world” to render not only koʹsmos but also three other Greek words in some of its renderings of them (ge; ai·onʹ; oi·kou·meʹne) and five different Hebrew words (ʼeʹrets; cheʹdhel; cheʹledh; ʽoh·lamʹ; te·velʹ). This produced a blurring or confused blending of meanings that made it difficult to obtain correct understanding of the scriptures involved. Later translations have served to clear up considerably this confusion.

The Hebrew 'e'rets and the Greek ge (from which come the English words “geography” and “geology”) mean “earth; ground; soil; land” (Ge 6:4; Nu 1:1; Mt 2:6; 5:5; 10:29; 13:5), although in some cases they may stand in a figurative sense for the people of the earth, as at Psalm 66:4 and Revelation 13:3. Both ʽoh·lamʹ (Heb.) and ai·onʹ (Gr.) relate basically to a period of time of indefinite length. (Ge 6:3; 17:13; Lu 1:70) Ai·onʹ may also signify the “system of things” characterizing a certain period, age, or epoch. (Ga 1:4) Cheʹledh (Heb.) has a somewhat similar meaning and may be rendered by such terms as “life’s duration” and “system of things.” (Job 11:17; Ps 17:14) Oi·kou·meʹne (Gr.) means the “inhabited earth” (Lu 21:26), and te·velʹ (Heb.) may be rendered “productive land.” (2Sa 22:16)

The elementary things of the world.” At Galatians 4:1-3, after showing that a child is like a slave in the sense of being under the stewardship of others until he is of age, Paul states: “Likewise we also, when we were babes, continued enslaved by the elementary things [stoi·kheiʹa] belonging to the world.” He then proceeds to show that God’s Son came at the “full limit of the time” and released those becoming his disciples from being under the Law that they might receive the adoption of sons. (Ga 4:4-7) Similarly at Colossians 2:8, 9, 20 he warns the Christians at Colossae against being carried off “through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things [stoi·kheiʹa] of the world and not according to Christ; because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily,” stressing that they “died together with Christ toward the elementary things of the world.

His letters to the Galatians and Colossians, Paul was evidently not referring to the basic or component parts of the material creation but, rather, as German scholar Heinrich A. W. Meyer’s Critical and Exegetical Hand-Book (1884, Galatians, p. 168) observes, to “the elements of non-Christian humanity,” that is, to its fundamental, or primary, principles. Paul’s writings show this would include the philosophies and deceptive teachings based purely on human standards, concepts, reasoning, and mythology, such as the Greeks and other pagan peoples reveled in. (Col 2:8)


Because the Israelites were made into a covenant relationship with Jehovah distinct from the world in general, Paul could use koʹsmos, “world,” as equivalent to the non-Israelite “people of the nations,” or “Gentiles,” at Romans 11:12-15. (NW; KJ) He there pointed out that Israel’s apostasy led to God’s revoking his covenant relationship with them and that it opened up the way for the Gentiles to enter into such relationship and its riches, by being reconciled to God. (Compare Eph 2:11-13.)

The “world,” or koʹsmos, during the post-Flood and pre-Christian period again designated all humanity outside of God’s approved servants, and specifically those outside Israel during the period of its covenant relationship with Jehovah.—Compare Heb 11:38.


In a similar manner and with great frequency, koʹsmos is used to signify all non-Christian human society, regardless of race. This is the world that hated Jesus and his followers.

The koʹsmos for which Jesus died must mean the world of mankind viewed simply as the human family, all human flesh. (Joh 3:16, 17) As to the world in the sense of human society alienated from God and in actual enmity toward God, Jesus did not pray on behalf of such world but only for those who came out of that world and put faith in him. (Joh 17:8, 9) Even as human flesh survived the destruction of the ungodly human society, or world , in the Deluge, so Jesus showed that human flesh is to survive the great tribulation that he likened to that Flood. (Mt 24:21, 22, 36-39; compare Re 7:9-17.) “The kingdom of the world” (evidently meaning of humankind) is, in fact, promised to become “the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,” and those reigning with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom are due to “rule as kings over the earth,” hence over humankind apart from the deceased ungodly human society dominated by Satan.—Re 11:15;5:9, 10.
 
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marks

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I don't believe this planet to be destroyed but instead the wicked world of mankind simply because that's how I believe the scriptures show it to be. Other people don't have to agree with me. But nothing anyone has said in which they believe has convinced me the scriptures go along with there belief that they say are in the scriptures. The earth will continue to be inhabited, but not by a crooked and twisted generation. The psalmist said that in God’s due time, only ‘the righteous will possess it.’—Psalm 37:2

The word World is the usual English term for translating the Greek koʹsmos in all of its occurrences in the Christian Greek Scriptures except 1 Peter 3:3, where it is rendered “adornment.” “World” can mean (1) humankind as a whole, apart from their moral condition or course of life, (2) the framework of human circumstances into which a person is born and in which he lives (and in this sense it is at times quite similar to the Greek ai·onʹ, “system of things”), or (3) the mass of mankind apart from Jehovah’s approved servants.

The King James Version used “world” to render not only koʹsmos but also three other Greek words in some of its renderings of them (ge; ai·onʹ; oi·kou·meʹne) and five different Hebrew words (ʼeʹrets; cheʹdhel; cheʹledh; ʽoh·lamʹ; te·velʹ). This produced a blurring or confused blending of meanings that made it difficult to obtain correct understanding of the scriptures involved. Later translations have served to clear up considerably this confusion.

The Hebrew 'e'rets and the Greek ge (from which come the English words “geography” and “geology”) mean “earth; ground; soil; land” (Ge 6:4; Nu 1:1; Mt 2:6; 5:5; 10:29; 13:5), although in some cases they may stand in a figurative sense for the people of the earth, as at Psalm 66:4 and Revelation 13:3. Both ʽoh·lamʹ (Heb.) and ai·onʹ (Gr.) relate basically to a period of time of indefinite length. (Ge 6:3; 17:13; Lu 1:70) Ai·onʹ may also signify the “system of things” characterizing a certain period, age, or epoch. (Ga 1:4) Cheʹledh (Heb.) has a somewhat similar meaning and may be rendered by such terms as “life’s duration” and “system of things.” (Job 11:17; Ps 17:14) Oi·kou·meʹne (Gr.) means the “inhabited earth” (Lu 21:26), and te·velʹ (Heb.) may be rendered “productive land.” (2Sa 22:16)

The elementary things of the world.” At Galatians 4:1-3, after showing that a child is like a slave in the sense of being under the stewardship of others until he is of age, Paul states: “Likewise we also, when we were babes, continued enslaved by the elementary things [stoi·kheiʹa] belonging to the world.” He then proceeds to show that God’s Son came at the “full limit of the time” and released those becoming his disciples from being under the Law that they might receive the adoption of sons. (Ga 4:4-7) Similarly at Colossians 2:8, 9, 20 he warns the Christians at Colossae against being carried off “through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things [stoi·kheiʹa] of the world and not according to Christ; because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily,” stressing that they “died together with Christ toward the elementary things of the world.

His letters to the Galatians and Colossians, Paul was evidently not referring to the basic or component parts of the material creation but, rather, as German scholar Heinrich A. W. Meyer’s Critical and Exegetical Hand-Book (1884, Galatians, p. 168) observes, to “the elements of non-Christian humanity,” that is, to its fundamental, or primary, principles. Paul’s writings show this would include the philosophies and deceptive teachings based purely on human standards, concepts, reasoning, and mythology, such as the Greeks and other pagan peoples reveled in. (Col 2:8)


Because the Israelites were made into a covenant relationship with Jehovah distinct from the world in general, Paul could use koʹsmos, “world,” as equivalent to the non-Israelite “people of the nations,” or “Gentiles,” at Romans 11:12-15. (NW; KJ) He there pointed out that Israel’s apostasy led to God’s revoking his covenant relationship with them and that it opened up the way for the Gentiles to enter into such relationship and its riches, by being reconciled to God. (Compare Eph 2:11-13.)

The “world,” or koʹsmos, during the post-Flood and pre-Christian period again designated all humanity outside of God’s approved servants, and specifically those outside Israel during the period of its covenant relationship with Jehovah.—Compare Heb 11:38.


In a similar manner and with great frequency, koʹsmos is used to signify all non-Christian human society, regardless of race. This is the world that hated Jesus and his followers.

The koʹsmos for which Jesus died must mean the world of mankind viewed simply as the human family, all human flesh. (Joh 3:16, 17) As to the world in the sense of human society alienated from God and in actual enmity toward God, Jesus did not pray on behalf of such world but only for those who came out of that world and put faith in him. (Joh 17:8, 9) Even as human flesh survived the destruction of the ungodly human society, or world , in the Deluge, so Jesus showed that human flesh is to survive the great tribulation that he likened to that Flood. (Mt 24:21, 22, 36-39; compare Re 7:9-17.) “The kingdom of the world” (evidently meaning of humankind) is, in fact, promised to become “the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,” and those reigning with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom are due to “rule as kings over the earth,” hence over humankind apart from the deceased ungodly human society dominated by Satan.—Re 11:15;5:9, 10.
Hi Barney,

I can't say you don't have well formed view.

This seems to me to be one of those cases where we make decisions on what we believe to be poetical or metaphorical, and what to be the literal, "this is what it really Is" passages. That's a well written post, and aside from these hermaneutic differences, it's like, Yeah, I see what you are saying.

One thing I'll mention, I've understood olam to be the portion you can see all the way to the end, and so it signifies eternity to those who see it out that long, but more like "to the vanishing point", so typically amorphous Hebrew, compared to the typically particular Greek, aion, which, again to my understanding, is best understood as "age", as in "an epoch of time", and tous aionos ton aionon, the ages of the ages, that is, the units of time that encompass all units if time, or, eternity.

But I think that's a side point.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. It seems safe to say we share the same hope of ultimately living in a creation wherein only righteousness dwells, and that will be wonderful!

Much love!