To all the Rome haters.....

goldy · Dec 6, 2008

(Alpha and Omega;65433)
Please show me these verses then. As for christmas and easter do some research and you might find how they started and what they actually are.As far as my interpretation, well I think it is pretty clear who the rock of the church is. If you cannot see that then there is a problem.as for catholics praying to statues well here you go....

1. So you're saying that Christians can't celebrate the death and resurrection of our Lord and His birth? Wow......2. Again, I disagree with your interpretion. How is it a problem that I can't see your interpretation? Do I need to follow the interpretation of the Alpha and Omega for it not to be a problem?3. Nice try on the picture. Still doesn't prove that we worship statues unless the pope said we did.

Alpha and Omega · Dec 6, 2008

(goldy;65427)
I disagree with your interpretation about the Peter in the Bible. With regard to Mary, there is no division within the Church about her. We've had the same beliefs about her for the past 20 centuries. You seem to claim you know an awful lot about Catholicism. Where do you get your information? Maybe you could teach me since I'm obviously not an "informed Catholic"
It seems he knows more than you. You say you do not worship her but the Catholic church seems to disagree with you....
ndeed, she is clearly the mother of the members of Christ since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church who are members of its head. Wherefore she is hailed as pre-eminent and as a wholly unique member of the Church, and as its type and outstanding model in faith and charity. The Catholic Church taught by the Holy Spirit, honours her with filial affection and devotion as a most beloved mother. THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL, 1964
Furthermore, When a woman praised Mary loudly, Jesus corrected her, making it clear that the woman who gave birth to him is not blessed above those who are saved by the grace of God.And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company liftedup her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the papswhich thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the wordof God, and keep it. (Luke 11:27-28)And look at this goldy. The RCC even says Mary can save people for destruction amazing..
With her whole heart, unhindered by sin, she embraced the salvific will of God and consecrated herself totally as a handmaid of the Lord to the person and work of her Son, under whom and with whom, by the grace of the Almighty, she served in the mystery of the redemption. Justly, therefore, do the holy Fathers consider Mary not merely as a passive instrument on the hands of God, but as freely co-operating in the salvation of humankind by her faith and obedience. As St. Irenaeus says; ‘through her obedience she became cause of salvation both for herself and for the whole human race.’ THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL, 1964
Now it seems to me that you and the church are at odds. The church is also at odds with Gods word. I do not remember anything like that in the Bible. Now I know that I wouldn't want to be a part of something like that. That is why I left. I used to say the same things just like you are right now. But if you are truly honest with yourself and actually want to learn more about Jesus and not a church that doesn't know him than you need to ask, knock and look and you can't keep denying these biblical arguments. Because after all who are you denying me or Jesus?Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8)

Jordan · Dec 6, 2008

Alpha how many times are you going to keep trying? It's like you're trying to convince a sand castle... God can only give them the wisdom. We can plant the seed only. We can never grow it.Goldy as I said earlier, I tried by quoting scripture, but you literally refused to hear God, and Christ. You really are in denial.

Christina · Dec 6, 2008

Sorry but You are in complete denial Goldy... You cant see the truth because then you would have to see your church for what it really is ... not that yours is the only wrong one but it is among the top. And sense you are taught church above all things to depend on church above God ...confess to man above God ect ect ..you will always be in denial no matter who says what... Alpha and Omega is right but you accuse her/him of lying rather than come out of your denial.. I ve tried to stay out of this because you and I have had our rounds before... but it sickens my heart to see one defend church doctrine above Gods words and his teachings .. I pray you listen to Alpha and Omega before its to lateI dare you to watch this and then come here and tell us your church doesnt worship Mary or a statue of (scroll toward the bottom and you can watch each 10 12 min section)http://christiananswers.net/catalog/messages-vs.html

bullfighter · Dec 6, 2008

you do not have to protect the rcc.they are wrong and you should get use to it.i hope your spiritual pride does not get in the way..your faith in christ is the path.

Alpha and Omega · Dec 6, 2008

(Jordan;65436)
Alpha how many times are you going to keep trying? It's like you're trying to convince a sand castle... God can only give them the wisdom. We can plant the seed only. We can never grow it.
I know your right Jordan. I just feel like this church wasted 20+ years of my life I am just trying to pay them back.(Christina;65437)
Sorry but You are in complete denial Goldy... You cant see the truth because then you would have to see your church for what it really is ... not that yours is the only wrong one but it is among the top. And sense you are taught church above all things to depend on church above God ...confess to man above God ect ect ..you will always be in denial no matter who says what... Alpha and Omega is right but you accuse her/him of lying rather than come out of your denial.. I ve tried to stay out of this because you and I have had our rounds before... but it sickens my heart to see one defend church doctrine above Gods words and his teachings .. I pray you listen to Alpha and Omega before its to lateI dare you to watch this and then come here and tell us you dont pray to Mary or a statue (scroll toward the bottom and you can watch each 10 12 min section)http://christiananswers.net/catalog/messages-vs.html
I'm a he by the way Christina.

Jordan · Dec 6, 2008

(Alpha and Omega;65439)
(Jordan;65436)
Alpha how many times are you going to keep trying? It's like you're trying to convince a sand castle... God can only give them the wisdom. We can plant the seed only. We can never grow it.
I know your right Jordan. I just feel like this church wasted 20+ years of my life I am just trying to pay them back.That's fine and dandy, In fact I want you to do it, to preach to them, The Truth of God's Words. However it is not healthy to keep trying repeatedly to a brick wall. There is always a line, a point of where we should and have to stop trying and move on with other people.What I'm trying to say is this, when you feel like it's pointless to keep on trying, it reminds me of this verse. (Matthew 7:6) Just an advice, remember that if you felt that way.I love you.

goldy · Dec 7, 2008

(Alpha and Omega;65435)
It seems he knows more than you. You say you do not worship her but the Catholic church seems to disagree with you....Furthermore, When a woman praised Mary loudly, Jesus corrected her, making it clear that the woman who gave birth to him is not blessed above those who are saved by the grace of God.And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company liftedup her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the papswhich thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the wordof God, and keep it. (Luke 11:27-28)And look at this goldy. The RCC even says Mary can save people for destruction amazing..Now it seems to me that you and the church are at odds. The church is also at odds with Gods word. I do not remember anything like that in the Bible. Now I know that I wouldn't want to be a part of something like that. That is why I left. I used to say the same things just like you are right now. But if you are truly honest with yourself and actually want to learn more about Jesus and not a church that doesn't know him than you need to ask, knock and look and you can't keep denying these biblical arguments. Because after all who are you denying me or Jesus?Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8)
The Catholic Church doesn't worship Mary. Even the quotes above from Vatican II don't say that. Show me where it says, SPECIFICALLY, that we worship Mary.Look, I'm sorry that your personal experience in the Church was so bad. Maybe you were poorly taught the faith.....I don't know. I would have to say that my experience in the Church has been just the opposite. The more I've studied God's Word in relationship to my Catholic faith, the STRONGER my faith has grown. But how can this be? If
the Church is so un-biblical like you say it is, how can this be?

goldy · Dec 7, 2008

(Christina;65437)
Sorry but You are in complete denial Goldy... You cant see the truth because then you would have to see your church for what it really is ... not that yours is the only wrong one but it is among the top. And sense you are taught church above all things to depend on church above God ...confess to man above God ect ect ..you will always be in denial no matter who says what... Alpha and Omega is right but you accuse her/him of lying rather than come out of your denial.. I ve tried to stay out of this because you and I have had our rounds before... but it sickens my heart to see one defend church doctrine above Gods words and his teachings .. I pray you listen to Alpha and Omega before its to lateI dare you to watch this and then come here and tell us your church doesnt worship Mary or a statue of (scroll toward the bottom and you can watch each 10 12 min section)http://christiananswers.net/catalog/messages-vs.html
1. Could you tell me how I accused Alpha and Omega of lying?2. The whole reason I started this thread was because so many people on here attack the Catholic Church it's not even funny. If you disagree with Church teachings, that's your opinion.But let me ask you this Kriss: Throughout recent history, what church has stood up against the evils of abortion (the bishops even came out with an official document speaking out against abortion before this election)? What church has stood tall against the attacks on marriage? Against the evils of embryonic stem cell research? Against cloning? Against euthanasia? Against secularization? I could go on and on. The Catholic Church has stood alone through all of this. And so many people want to criminalize my church. I wonder why?3. I'll watch your little video. But I would challenge you that if you are going to disagree with Church doctrine, please at least disagree with what the Church TRULY teaches. Don't disagree with what you THINK the Church teaches.

goldy · Dec 7, 2008

(Jordan;65436)
Alpha how many times are you going to keep trying? It's like you're trying to convince a sand castle... God can only give them the wisdom. We can plant the seed only. We can never grow it.Goldy as I said earlier, I tried by quoting scripture, but you literally refused to hear God, and Christ. You really are in denial.
And as I said earlier, I read your scripture verses and I disagree with your PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of these verses. So no I'm not in denial. But thanks for assuming I am in denial.

goldy · Dec 7, 2008

Christina;65437 said:
Sorry but You are in complete denial Goldy... You cant see the truth because then you would have to see your church for what it really is ... not that yours is the only wrong one but it is among the top. And sense you are taught church above all things to depend on church above God ...confess to man above God ect ect ..you will always be in denial no matter who says what... Alpha and Omega is right but you accuse her/him of lying rather than come out of your denial.. I ve tried to stay out of this because you and I have had our rounds before... but it sickens my heart to see one defend church doctrine above Gods words and his teachings .. I pray you listen to Alpha and Omega before its to lateI dare you to watch this and then come here and tell us your church doesnt worship Mary or a statue of (scroll toward the bottom and you can watch each 10 12 min section)http://christiananswers.net/catalog/messages-vs.html[/QUOTOk, so I watched the video. What you need to understand is that none of the messages say that we are to worship Mary. You also need to understand that the vast majority of reported apparitions are never officially approved by the Church (i.e.: Medjugorje is still under investigation). There is a ton of studies done to see if any of the apparitions contradict Church teachings. The most famous approved apparitions of Mary took place in Fatima, Portugal and Lourdes, France. And guess what? The principal messages of these apparitions were prayer, fasting, and conversion. Hmmmm, that doesn't sound too unbiblical. And with Medjugorje (which I feel will eventually be approved.....the reported apparitions began in 1981 to give you an idea of how long many of these things take to approve) the principal messages are prayer, fasting, and SCRIPTURE READING!!!!! Now I know nobody on here would have a problem with that. The bottom line is that Mary loves each one of us personally and wants us to be in heaven for all eternity with her Son. She is always pointing us to Christ: Remember her quote in the bible at the wedding feast at Cana: "Do whatever He tells you"Finally, I'm personally sick and tired of these ridiculous claims about statues. So we have statues of Mary. SO THE HECK WHAT!!!!!!!!! We also have pictures of Jesus and crucifixes galore to remind us of HIs saving grace. The argument is a straw man's argument. If I had a statue of Barrack Obama in my front yard and I worshipped it each day, then you would have an argument

Jordan · Dec 7, 2008

(goldy;65461)
(Jordan;65436)
Alpha how many times are you going to keep trying? It's like you're trying to convince a sand castle... God can only give them the wisdom. We can plant the seed only. We can never grow it.Goldy as I said earlier, I tried by quoting scripture, but you literally refused to hear God, and Christ. You really are in denial.
And as I said earlier, I read your scripture verses and I disagree with your PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of these verses. So no I'm not in denial. But thanks for assuming I am in denial.Private interpretations? Care to show me where on this forum (CB) have I had a private interpretations?

TWC · Dec 7, 2008

(goldy)
And as I said earlier, I read your scripture verses and I disagree with your PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of these verses. So no I'm not in denial. But thanks for assuming I am in denial.
I assume that you're referencing 2 Peter 1:20. The RCC uses this verse a lot to limit the interpretation of scripture to priests and the like. However, it has been taken out of context. Peter never said that no prophecy in scripture is up to private interpretation; he said that no prophecy in scripture is of private interpretation. As you'll see with the following verse, he was saying that the prophecy in scripture was divinely inspired and not by the thoughts (interpretations) of men.The RCC has altered the Ten Commandments to exclude the one about graven images. That alone, should tell you that something is up.

goldy · Dec 7, 2008

(Jordan;65466)
Private interpretations? Care to show me where on this forum (CB) have I had a private interpretations?
Well, I believe that you said in an earlier post that the Catholic Church was an antichrist, and you quoted scripture verses to support your claim. But we as Catholics would look at the same verses and say there's no way on earth these refer to the Church being an antichrist. So who's right, your interpretation or our interpretation? To use an example: Catholics believe that when we receive the Eucharist, we are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. We would refer you to John chapter 6 to back up this claim. I'm guessing that you would disagree with this, but that is how we interpret John chapter 6. Does this make sense? I'm perfectly fine with agreeing to disagree. But if you choose to slam my church, don't think I'm gonna just sit back and say nothing.

goldy · Dec 7, 2008

(TWC;65470)
I assume that you're referencing 2 Peter 1:20. The RCC uses this verse a lot to limit the interpretation of scripture to priests and the like. However, it has been taken out of context. Peter never said that no prophecy in scripture is up to private interpretation; he said that no prophecy in scripture is of private interpretation. As you'll see with the following verse, he was saying that the prophecy in scripture was divinely inspired and not by the thoughts (interpretations) of men.The RCC has altered the Ten Commandments to exclude the one about graven images. That alone, should tell you that something is up.
Well, that would be one verse I would use. I would also use 1 Cor.11:2, 2 Thess.2:15, and many more. Again, you are using your private interpretation for 2 Peter1:20!! Do you realize that? You said, "he was saying that the prophecy in scripture was divinely inspired and not by the thoughts (interpretations) of men" This is YOUR interpretation. I would simply disagree with you. All of this comes down to Sola Scriptura (The Bible alone as the sole rule of faith). As a Catholic, I believe everything there is in the Bible......everything. But, I simply disagree with your fallible interpretation of these verses. Finally, do you have specific documentation about the "RCC altering the Ten Commandments to exclude the one about graven images"? I believe you are really reaching there......

Jordan · Dec 7, 2008

(goldy;65472)
(Jordan;65466)
Private interpretations? Care to show me where on this forum (CB) have I had a private interpretations?
Well, I believe that you said in an earlier post that the Catholic Church was an antichrist, and you quoted scripture verses to support your claim. But we as Catholics would look at the same verses and say there's no way on earth these refer to the Church being an antichrist. So who's right, your interpretation or our interpretation? To use an example: Catholics believe that when we receive the Eucharist, we are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. We would refer you to John chapter 6 to back up this claim. I'm guessing that you would disagree with this, but that is how we interpret John chapter 6. Does this make sense? I'm perfectly fine with agreeing to disagree. But if you choose to slam my church, don't think I'm gonna just sit back and say nothing.Slam your church? I don't slam a church ever. I slam as many doctrines created by men that is clearly teaching against the Son of God and the OT, and that include yours. I hate lies more than anything.Again show me on this forum (CB) where did I ever have a private interpretations.

bullfighter · Dec 7, 2008

(goldy;65473)
Well, that would be one verse I would use. I would also use 1 Cor.11:2, 2 Thess.2:15, and many more. Again, you are using your private interpretation for 2 Peter1:20!! Do you realize that? You said, "he was saying that the prophecy in scripture was divinely inspired and not by the thoughts (interpretations) of men" This is YOUR interpretation. I would simply disagree with you. All of this comes down to Sola Scriptura (The Bible alone as the sole rule of faith). As a Catholic, I believe everything there is in the Bible......everything. But, I simply disagree with your fallible interpretation of these verses. Finally, do you have specific documentation about the "RCC altering the Ten Commandments to exclude the one about graven images"? I believe you are really reaching there......
i am sorry your denial causes your pride to stand out .the truth about the rcc is most true.and you will fall into great disception in the near furture if you keep this up..you do what you want .i am just tilling you about a great dilution of faith that is in many places.i do not say follow me ,i am a sinner.i am not a proffit[ my spelling is bad i am sorry]i love people from everywhere.and know there is wolves in sheep clothes in high places..the papacy is a wolf in sheep clothes

TWC · Dec 7, 2008

(goldy)
Well, that would be one verse I would use. I would also use 1 Cor.11:2, 2 Thess.2:15, and many more. Again, you are using your private interpretation for 2 Peter1:20!! Do you realize that? You said, "he was saying that the prophecy in scripture was divinely inspired and not by the thoughts (interpretations) of men" This is YOUR interpretation. I would simply disagree with you.
It says it in plain English. There was no interpretation necessary, just as Genesis 1:1 doesn't require any interpretation when saying that God created the heavens and the earth. It just says it.As for the Ten Commandments, try this: (taken from catholic.com)...And yet, as Catholics watched the monument being removed from the judicial building in Alabama, they may have observed in a close-up shot of the commandments that they were not the same ten nor the numerical arrangement they had learned in childhood. The courthouse rendition read: 1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. 3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 4. Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. 5. Honor thy father and thy mother. 6. Thou shalt not kill. 7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8. Thou shalt not steal. 9. Thou shalt not bear false witness. 10. Thou shalt not covet.Whereas the Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments for memorization are: 1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me. 2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. 3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day. 4. Honor your father and mother. 5. You shall not kill. 6. You shall not commit adultery. 7. You shall not steal. 8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. 10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.The Catholic version clearly does not line up with Exodus 20:2-17, nor does it line up with Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Once again, this isn't my interpretation.

goldy · Dec 7, 2008

(bullfighter;65476)
i am sorry your denial causes your pride to stand out .the truth about the rcc is most true.and you will fall into great disception in the near furture if you keep this up..you do what you want .i am just tilling you about a great dilution of faith that is in many places.i do not say follow me ,i am a sinner.i am not a proffit[ my spelling is bad i am sorry]i love people from everywhere.and know there is wolves in sheep clothes in high places..the papacy is a wolf in sheep clothes
I respectfully disagree with you.

goldy · Dec 7, 2008

(TWC;65477)
It says it in plain English. There was no interpretation necessary, just as Genesis 1:1 doesn't require any interpretation when saying that God created the heavens and the earth. It just says it.As for the Ten Commandments, try this: (taken from catholic.com)...And yet, as Catholics watched the monument being removed from the judicial building in Alabama, they may have observed in a close-up shot of the commandments that they were not the same ten nor the numerical arrangement they had learned in childhood. The courthouse rendition read: 1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. 3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 4. Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. 5. Honor thy father and thy mother. 6. Thou shalt not kill. 7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8. Thou shalt not steal. 9. Thou shalt not bear false witness. 10. Thou shalt not covet.Whereas the Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments for memorization are: 1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me. 2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. 3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day. 4. Honor your father and mother. 5. You shall not kill. 6. You shall not commit adultery. 7. You shall not steal. 8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. 10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.The Catholic version clearly does not line up with Exodus 20:2-17, nor does it line up with Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Once again, this isn't my interpretation.
I'll have to take a look at this one......

To all the Rome haters.....

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