Jesus' grace saves and "works" are part of that Salvation

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

07-07-07

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,083
668
113
Rust Belt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Many in the Christian world have taken one verse in Ephesians and twisted it to suit their flesh. It's the Scripture that seems to suggest that Salvation requires no work, but that's not what the Scripture is trying to convey. Salvation does indeed require work, but not the works of the Law nor the works of man; those works do not save. What works do save? Ephesians 2:10 answers the question.

Ephesians 2
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The same author (the Apostle Paul) of Ephesians also told King Agrippa the process of Salvation.

Acts 26
[19] Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
[20] But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Episkopos and Nancy

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Many in the Christian world have taken one verse in Ephesians and twisted it to suit their flesh. It's the Scripture that seems to suggest that Salvation requires no work, but that's not what the Scripture is trying to convey. Salvation does indeed require work, but not the works of the Law nor the works of man; those works do not save. What works do save? Ephesians 2:10 answers the question.

Ephesians 2
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The same author (the Apostle Paul) of Ephesians also told King Agrippa the process of Salvation.

Acts 26
[19] Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
[20] But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

I see good works as a result of salvation, a side effect...lol. He is molding us to walk into these good works He has pre-ordained beforehand that we should.
When a person is newly saved, just a babe with a thumb in their mouth...they still have allot of shedding of the old man yet to be done. So, I cannot agree "good works" are a pre-requisite FOR salvation, as who just goes out there, not knowing much of anything about the Word, or the Lord, and just starts walking old ladies across the street, or any other thing they never thought to do B.C.? Once they become mature in understanding then I would expect to see "good works" coming naturally to them. Of course, this is my own experience so I cannot pin it on everyone who is newly saved... :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 07-07-07

Windmillcharge

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2017
2,934
1,823
113
68
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Depends entirely where one puts the emphersis.
Are works part of salvation, or are works evidence of salvation.
The basic understanding of scripture is it is the later.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

07-07-07

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,083
668
113
Rust Belt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Depends entirely where one puts the emphersis.
Are works part of salvation, or are works evidence of salvation.
The basic understanding of scripture is it is the later.

While I don't involve myself in splitting hairs, it's Scripturally clear that no works = no salvation, as mere belief is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus lights a candle and expects it to burn bright in the dark.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ephesians 2:10 does not teach us that works are required for salvation. v.9 is clear that we are not saved by our works.

And so are such passages as Romans 4:1-8, Titus 3:4-7, and Romans 11:5-6.

Scripture is clear that we are justified apart from works.

If someone receives Christ (see John 1:12), and dies two minutes later, they had not opportunity to do any good works.

Is God going to condemn them to hell because of it?

I do ask this question of you, @07-07-07.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,341
17,174
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
While I don't involve myself in splitting hairs, it's Scripturally clear that no works = no salvation, as mere belief is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus lights a candle and expects it to burn bright in the dark.
What would you describe as 'works'?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,341
17,174
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Acts 26
[19] Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
[20] But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Acts 26:19-20 NIV
‘So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds."


Acts 26:19-20 (NLT)
“And so, King Agrippa, I obeyed that vision from heaven. I preached first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that all must repent of their sins and turn to God—and prove they have changed by the good things they do.
 

07-07-07

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,083
668
113
Rust Belt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ephesians 2:10 does not teach us that works are required for salvation. v.9 is clear that we are not saved by our works.

And so are such passages as Romans 4:1-8, Titus 3:4-7, and Romans 11:5-6.

Scripture is clear that we are justified apart from works.

I disagree with that interpretation. We are made new creations in Christ to bring forth works good for repentance.

If someone receives Christ (see John 1:12), and dies two minutes later, they had not opportunity to do any good works.

Is God going to condemn them to hell because of it?

I do ask this question of you, @07-07-07.

No. The thief on the Cross received Salvation at the last minutes of his life; it's the grace of God that saved him. Given the opportunity, however, he would have gone forth to bring forth works good for repentance.
 

Ernest T. Bass

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,845
616
113
out in the woods
Many in the Christian world have taken one verse in Ephesians and twisted it to suit their flesh. It's the Scripture that seems to suggest that Salvation requires no work, but that's not what the Scripture is trying to convey. Salvation does indeed require work, but not the works of the Law nor the works of man; those works do not save. What works do save? Ephesians 2:10 answers the question.

Ephesians 2
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The same author (the Apostle Paul) of Ephesians also told King Agrippa the process of Salvation.

Acts 26
[19] Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
[20] But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Paul also said in Romans 6:16 "obedience unto righteousness". God has made obedience to His will a conditin that must be met in order to receive the free gift of grace. Therefore (1) works done to earn some thing (Ephesians 2:9) and (2) meeting the condition placed on a free gift that has already been offered you are not the same things.

John 6:27 Jesus said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life that the Son of man GIVES. Eternal life is a free gift that Jesus gives yet one must work for it and the work in the context is to believe. Belief is a necessary condition one must meet to receive the free gift of eternal life yet the work of belief cannot earn eternal life....no one's belei will be perfect.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,794
19,242
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Every one does works. It is just a matter of what kind they are. There is no such a thing as a person who is void of works...who just sits there and does nothing, says nothing, or thinks nothing.

So then the whole works thing is a strawman argument. :)

Our works reveal our hearts and our ways of thinking.

There is only one way that God will judge us all. And that is according to our works. That is the only biblical judgement.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Your understanding of salvation truth (Soteriology) is skewed.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
This verse does not teach that we are saved through good works. But it does teach that those who are saved, are saved UNTO (for the purpose of doing) good works.

Salvation is PURELY AND SOLELY by the grace of God and through the finished work of Christ. God justifies by His grace the sinner who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. PLUS NOTHING.

Human beings are so used to the idea that there are no free lunches, that they cannot grasp how a just God can freely justify a vile sinner. Hence we have all the false religions, including false Christianity (which you are espousing).


But the grace of God in NOT a license to sin. The Bible is very clear about that also (Titus 2:11-14):

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


What we see here are two important truths: (1) separation from sin and evil and (2) separation unto good works.
 

07-07-07

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,083
668
113
Rust Belt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your understanding of salvation truth (Soteriology) is skewed.

This verse does not teach that we are saved through good works. But it does teach that those who are saved, are saved UNTO (for the purpose of doing) good works.

Salvation is PURELY AND SOLELY by the grace of God and through the finished work of Christ. God justifies by His grace the sinner who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. PLUS NOTHING.

Human beings are so used to the idea that there are no free lunches, that they cannot grasp how a just God can freely justify a vile sinner. Hence we have all the false religions, including false Christianity (which you are espousing).


But the grace of God in NOT a license to sin. The Bible is very clear about that also (Titus 2:11-14):

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


What we see here are two important truths: (1) separation from sin and evil and (2) separation unto good works.

That's what I am saying. A fruitless tree has no value. Jesus rebuked the fruitless fig tree and it withered away, dried up from the roots, to never be eaten of again, forever. So is a mere professing Christian; can his belief save him on that day? No.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
B

brakelite

Guest
Legalism is not the law. If it were so, God Himself would be a legalist, for He is the author of the law... Legalism is not obedience to the law. If it were so, Jesus would be a legalist... Legalism is a counterfeit way of salvation.. ..Legalism always projects obedience as either the only way of salvation or the human part of it... (It is) the assertion of self to come somehow to the assistance of God in the accomplishment of human salvation." Simply put, legalism is making human works of obedience the cause or partial cause of our salvation. It is feeling that our obedience merits salvation for us, in the same way that we earn our paycheck by our faithful work.
Obedience is possible, but not without Christ. Without Him we can do nothing. Yet who could claim any scripture teaching that declares we can be saved in disobedience?
I do not think I am overstating the case when I say that the greatest danger facing the average Christian today is no longer legalism, but a false assurance of salvation. We are being conditioned to believe that as long as we believe in Jesus and have a 'relationship" with Him, we are assured of being saved, irrespective of whether or not we have met the necessary conditions for salvation. This false assurance is based on a false justification, which says that justification is only to be declared righteous, and does not include making righteous as part of the justifying process.
To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience. A W Tozer
 
  • Like
Reactions: justbyfaith

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I disagree with that interpretation.

And I disagree with yours. I suppose that we will have to agree to disagree?

We are made new creations in Christ to bring forth works good for repentance.

But we are not made into new creatures through the works that result out of repentance (see Titus 3:5). We are regenerated and renewed by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

No. The thief on the Cross received Salvation at the last minutes of his life; it's the grace of God that saved him. Given the opportunity, however, he would have gone forth to bring forth works good for repentance.

So the person in question, as well as the thief on the Cross, were saved apart from works, correct?