A Most Amazing Message . . .

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Heart2Soul

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Did anyone listen?

Much love!
I listened to most of it....kind of skipped through a little bit....will go back later and listen to it all the way....Good Word!
 
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Butterfly

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Hi Mark I am istening to this but its raised some questions for me - he says that God didn't need anything, that he created this world out of grace ect, but I have always thought that this world was created out of the need to resolve the rebellion in heaven.
Any thoughts?
Rita
 

marks

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I listened to most of it....kind of skipped through a little bit....will go back later and listen to it all the way....Good Word!

Cool!

I've listened about a dozen times, and what he says is certainly true for me, understanding these things gives great confidence!

Much love!
 
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marks

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Hi Mark I am istening to this but its raised some questions for me - he says that God didn't need anything, that he created this world out of grace ect, but I have always thought that this world was created out of the need to resolve the rebellion in heaven.
Any thoughts?
Rita

Hi Rita,

I don't see angels begin created until day 2 or 3, and even so, Hebrews teaches that the angels were created to serve the people God was redeeming.

I see the rebellion in heaven as being instigated by the creation of man, and the angel's realization that this wasn't all about them, (those who fell away, that is), but about us.

I see it as that God began to create, and created the earth, and heaven, and the angels, and then later the angels realized, regardless of their amazing power and glory, they were intended to serve, What??? Those Mud People! You made THEM to become like you? Not me? But I want to be like the Most High! I want to sit in the congregation! Not them, me!

I see envy to be the original sin of Satan, and the base of sins in man. Wanting what is not appointed to us.

I see all of creation to be about mankind. God is love, so He created us to be loved by Him.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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...but I have always thought that this world was created out of the need to resolve the rebellion in heaven.
Where did you hear this bizarre idea?

Also, I do not listen to videos, but I will say this. To say that God does not need us but *wants* us is also not according to Scripture. What we do know from Scripture is this (Rev 5:11): Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

God has neither needs nor wants. But He chose to create for His own good pleasure.
 

marks

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Where did you hear this bizarre idea?

Also, I do not listen to videos, but I will say this. To say that God does not need us but *wants* us is also not according to Scripture. What we do know from Scripture is this (Rev 5:11): Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

God has neither needs nor wants. But He chose to create for His own good pleasure.

Come on, Enoch, no need to be calling people's ideas "bizarre", at least, not on my thread where I want to attract others to the constancy of God's love.

And that "for thy pleasure they are and were created, that's what this means, does it not? God created us because it pleased Him to do so.

If God didn't want us, why did He make us?

Much love!
 

marks

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Also, I do not listen to videos
I'd encourage you to make an exception. I don't watch a lot of videos, I happened to catch part of this on the radio station I listen to.

Much love!
 
B

Butterfly

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Hi Rita,

I don't see angels begin created until day 2 or 3, and even so, Hebrews teaches that the angels were created to serve the people God was redeeming.

I see the rebellion in heaven as being instigated by the creation of man, and the angel's realization that this wasn't all about them, (those who fell away, that is), but about us.

I see it as that God began to create, and created the earth, and heaven, and the angels, and then later the angels realized, regardless of their amazing power and glory, they were intended to serve, What??? Those Mud People! You made THEM to become like you? Not me? But I want to be like the Most High! I want to sit in the congregation! Not them, me!

I see envy to be the original sin of Satan, and the base of sins in man. Wanting what is not appointed to us.

I see all of creation to be about mankind. God is love, so He created us to be loved by Him.

Much love!
I will have to give that some thought Mark as it's not something I have considered, just presumed they existed first !
 
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marks

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I will have to give that some thought Mark as it's not something I have considered, just presumed they existed first !

This is the one clue I find:

Psalm 104
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

This to me suggests the angels were created between the creation of light and the firmament, and separating the land from the water.

And this is where God repeats in Hebrews:

1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

And then . . .

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

One more . . .

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Everything that God created in heaven and earth He created within the 6 days, so that's including the angels.

Much love!
 
B

Butterfly

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Where did you hear this bizarre idea?
.
I have no idea enoch, it's just something I have always presumed- I guess it's because satan was ' in the garden ' -he had already rebelled. I have no idea what I was taught as a child in sunday school, or what I took on board when I followed the Osmonds as a teenager ( my favourite album was ' The Plan ' which was based on their beliefs)
This has been a bit of a ' wow I never considered that' moment !!
Rita
 
B

Butterfly

Guest
This is the one clue I find:

Psalm 104
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

This to me suggests the angels were created between the creation of light and the firmament, and separating the land from the water.

And this is where God repeats in Hebrews:

1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

And then . . .

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

One more . . .

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Everything that God created in heaven and earth He created within the 6 days, so that's including the angels.

Much love!
Thank you Mark - I am a bit taken back that I have never considered this , and not sure of its implications at the moment x
 

Heart2Soul

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Hi Mark I am istening to this but its raised some questions for me - he says that God didn't need anything, that he created this world out of grace ect, but I have always thought that this world was created out of the need to resolve the rebellion in heaven.
Any thoughts?
Rita
I agree with you....I have had visions of once living in heaven until the rebellion.
 
B

Butterfly

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I agree with you....I have had visions of once living in heaven until the rebellion.
I don't think anyone is questioning that there was no rebellion, or a time of peace In the spiritual realm
at first, it's more the timing of when everything happened, so it's the motive behind the creation of the world that I am now questioning - and why the Angels were created too, I think!
I honestly believed that we were created to bring about a solution for a whole bigger problem !!
Rita
 
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marks

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I don't think anyone is questioning that there was no rebellion, or a time of peace In the spiritual realm
at first, it's more the timing of when everything happened, so it's the motive behind the creation of the world that I am now questioning - and why the Angels were created too, I think!
I honestly believed that we were created to bring about a solution for a whole bigger problem !!
Rita

I think the answer is in Romans 8:

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

My understanding is that God's purpose is to have a family.

Much love!
 

marks

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I have no idea enoch, it's just something I have always presumed- I guess it's because satan was ' in the garden ' -he had already rebelled. I have no idea what I was taught as a child in sunday school, or what I took on board when I followed the Osmonds as a teenager ( my favourite album was ' The Plan ' which was based on their beliefs)
This has been a bit of a ' wow I never considered that' moment !!
Rita

At the end of the 6 days of creation, God declared everything He had made to be Good. I don't think the angels had rebelled at that time.

Much love!
 
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Butterfly

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I think the answer is in Romans 8:

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

My understanding is that God's purpose is to have a family.

Much love!
Wow Mark, I am just reading that verse, one of my favourites, in a completely new context- much wider meaning than I had applied it before. I am a bit overwhelmed , and trying to gather my thoughts- I love these moments when you discover something new X
 
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