The Religious Mind

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Both of you are denying what the holy scripture says:

1Co 11:3, But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:4, Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1Co 11:5, But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

I would suggest that you have bigger problems than your haircuts. You either don't know the Bible or else you don't believe what it says; and that would make you less than Christian.

I would suggest that you have a problem too. In the OP we see a religious zealot acting out hypocrisy. Why, because he is persecuting a child of God with accusations of sin when, in fact, he himself, is committing a sin. He is certainly not loving his neighbor as himself and that means he is committing a sin. A person accusing someone of sinning while they are committing sin themselves is the very definition of hypocrisy. No wonder those outside of religion accuse those in religion of being hypocrites.

What amazes me is the the religious can not see this. Nor can they see the words in the scripture you gave. In 1 Co 11: 4 there are words that say """every man praying or prophesying"'. I did not see where the man with a hat was praying or prophesying. Just like a religious zealot to make a false accusation.
 

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,342
17,179
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Both of you are denying what the holy scripture says:

1Co 11:3, But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:4, Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1Co 11:5, But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

I would suggest that you have bigger problems than your haircuts. You either don't know the Bible or else you don't believe what it says; and that would make you less than Christian.
So please answer my question - How long is long? Do you mean never-been-cut long, shoulder length long or waist length?
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
He is certainly not loving his neighbor as himself and that means he is committing a sin. A person accusing someone of sinning while they are committing sin themselves is the very definition of hypocrisy.

By all means tell me what sin it is that you see me committing, so that I can bring it before the Lord in repentance and surrender to Him.

I did not see where the man with a hat was praying or prophesying. Just like a religious zealot to make a false accusation.

If he was not praying in that situation, then he was failing to keep another command; to pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:17).

Now of course, I don't advocate a man seeking to save himself by works anyway; so if the man was not praying as the Bible commands him to do 24/7 (keeping God at least on a back-burner of his thought life every moment, see Psalms 10:4), it does not necessarily mean that he is not saved (unless he is of the attitude that he is trying to save himself by his works, in which case his failure to be perfect in this area will place him outside the kingdom). For a man is saved by simple faith in Jesus.

Now if any man is forgiven through simple faith in Jesus, he will love Jesus much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

But if someone is dishonouring Jesus in their public manner of worship, I fail to see how that is love for Him.

As I said before, if they are ignorant of the scriptures in question, I do not consider their dishonouring of Him to be deliberate; and therefore it may even be true of them that they do indeed love Him.

It remains that those who deliberately dishounour the Lord do not love Him as far as I can tell: for honour and love go hand-in-hand.
 
Last edited:

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Haha! You think??? LOL
For sure...lots of 'em it seems.
They say that wine is a mocker...but certainly one does not have to drink wine to be a mocker.

Yes, mocking includes holding in low esteem those who preach the truth of God's word and considering them to be "wet blankets" or "having issues".
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
those who preach the truth of God's word
then preach the truth..... stop adding to the word a woman that does not wear long hair does not dishonor her husband or Christ. honestly i think the woman should speak . if you had some type scripture base maybe.. all you have is how you believe.. are you married do you make your wife submit to every thing you say? is she a robot ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,155
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
then preach the truth..... stop adding to the word a woman that does not wear long hair does not dishonor her husband or Christ. honestly i think the woman should speak . if you had some type scripture base maybe.. all you have is how you believe.. are you married do you make your wife submit to every thing you say? is she a robot ?


Im more worried about what 'image' in his own making does he have of Father God!!!
His God seems to be an angry legalist God, full of all kinds or rules.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pearl

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When the scripture said to "not forsake the assembling ourselves together," why do most assume it is in the formal religious services in a church building?

Heb 10:25
25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so

Oh my! I see a lot I disagree with on this forum. Most I just let it go, but this is a topic I will defend as long as I have my being!

It depends on what you call a formal religious service and what you consider a church building. But I will prove that God through Paul DID call for formal services in a Church building (sorta on the last point).

The bottom line is that verse is talking about assembling you physical body with other physical bodies. How often? Every time an assembly is called together! Without drawing back and without wavering!

Why can't it be referring to Sunday school classes, Bible study classes, Bible study in the homes, or even home churches?

I think it does, but as opposed to what? What do you mean by "Sunday school classes"? Is that where the kiddies get together and color pictures of Jesus? I go to Church on Sunday and every service I learn! Thus, it's a class on Sunday!

On down the line! As for home Churches, well yes... "Church" was held in homes, but guess what? When service was in session it was no longer someone's "home". I have Pauline scripture on that, my friend! Will you ignore Paul?

But I doubt very seriously that we are to worship God by the things we do physically (external). I think we are to worship God in our hearts (inside).

The Bible says otherwise, and not just in Hebrews 10:25. Yes, we are to worship God in our hearts, but our physical presence is also required. Matthew 8:22. Jesus didn't say, "Well I know your heart is with me". He said, "follow me, let the dead bury the dead".

Let's start with some light insights:

PAUL said:

1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Yea, preaching is foolish. God through Paul admitted it. But that's what God chose! He didn't chose that to save unbelievers, either. PAUL said God chose preaching to save them that actually believe.


PAUL said:
Romans 10:14 KJV
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

He said in the previous verse whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. So... To call on his name you have to hear, and you can't hear without a...

Preacher.

So who's a preacher? Verse 15 says he has to be sent by God.

There's a sidenote. What if you don't agree?

Romans 10:16 KJV
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

So if you disagree, you haven't obeyed the gospel. You haven't believed the report of Esaias, and since PAUL is writing this, you don't believe him either. Why? Cause he wrote it.

What about "faith"? Grace comes by faith, right? Grace fixes fixes all, right? We just need faith and that's the bottom line! Well, yes... But..

Romans 10:17 KJV
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

What does this verse say? Faith doesn't come by reading. It doesn't come by fasting. It doesn't come by praying and it doesn't come EVEN by giving! It comes by one thing according to this verse: HEARING. And it's already been established that it's hearing a preacher. Not voices in your head, not your conscience, not even angels.

A preacher.

Paul said this stuff. Not me.

Check out Romans 13 and Hebrews 13:17 as well. Just as powerful, but I am anxious to move on to some heavier stuff.

1 Corinthians 11:18 KJV
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

We are going to analyze this verse. But first, you said this:

It is a fact that the NT scriptures do not tell us what we are to do when we gather together except as written in the scripture above (exhorting one another) and to worship God.

That is totally untrue! This chapter in context proves it to be untrue as do others. (Don't worry, I will get to them).

1 Cor 11:18 says, "when ye come together...". Well, that IS the Church! The "ye" part of that verse. Paul is speaking to the Church (one body, many members... Romans 12:4-5, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 20). What are the "ye" doing and called to do? Come together. Where? How? Not in the spirit, though that is to happen... Where? "In the church"

He is talking about coming together in a physical place. It could be a Grove, a park, a house or a building. But when they do physically come together, it's called "the church" and it's referring to an geographical location.

Furthermore, PAUL gives certain rules of behavior to abide by. So yea,the NT does tell us what to do physically.

Sidenote: to those who still think they met in houses, that may be true but PAUL called it a church and differentiated it from a house in verse 22. It may have actually been a house, but during the service, it was THE CHURCH.

1 Corinthians 14:23 KJV
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

The Church is together in one place... One physical place... And PAUL is again laying down some ground rules.

1 Corinthians 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Yea, I know it isn't popular. But it's there.. and the next verse says let them ask their husbands at home... There's another separation of church and "home".

1 Corinthians 14:26 KJV
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

More on order in the Church. More rules on how a service should be run from the pen of PAUL.

And what is the need of a deacon or a bishop if Paul didn't believe order is needed in an actual gathering? Why was he training Timothy and Titus? Need more? I am sure I can find more examples.

I'm not done.

I say this because, as a young man, while in Church, I heard someone say

Ok. So are you going to throw out what the Bible says and PAUL (the grace apostle who was chosen last to reveal the final message) based on your few experiences? Yes they are a tradedy. Yes it's terrible. But that doesn't make God's chosen plan wrong!

You have these two terrible tales, but did you ever see a success? Why not speak of them? Furthermore, how many failures do you think there are of people following themselves? Yes, there are thousands of bad preachers but there are millions who are following their own misguided beliefs.

My final statement:. Hebrews 10:25 is actually talking about physically assembling yourselves. Paul approved of church services done decently and in order. He said we need preaching and preachers and that we should actually come together physically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: justbyfaith

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do...1 Corinthians 11:1-16, 1 Thessalonians 5:17, Luke 16:10.
are you married ? do you make her wear a veil ? in public and church? these 2 scriptures 1 Thessalonians 5:17, Luke 16:10. have NOTHING to do with the subject. do you make her wear a dress all the time ? do you make her keep silent in church ?
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Her long hair is given to her for a covering, 1 Corinthians 11:15.



I don't need to...she does that on her own (she knows what the Bible says about the matter).
your not answering my questions
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There are religious people who think they are supposed to make others believe what they believe. They become religious policemen and think they are doing God a service by attacking other for what they believe.

It amazes me that the religious can not see that what they are doing is exactly what the Jewish Pharisees were doing when they plotted the murder of Jesus. They were not only breaking the law by wanting to kill a person but were also creating lies to use against that person.

I do not like, or use, the label of "Christian". It is used by so many, that certainly are not Children of God, to add legitimacy to their religion.

There are those on this forum that think they are doing God a favor by attacking anyone that has a message that they do not approve and as I see it they are the modern day Pharisee

Thank you FHII for your reply. I see that you approve of the religions of today But I do not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pearl

Giuliano

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2019
5,978
3,676
113
Carlisle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Let's do remember Paul goes on to say that was his opinion, that's it not something necessary for people in the church. People are free to disagree with him. It's not worth fighting over.

1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There are those on this forum that think they are doing God a favor by attacking anyone that has a message that they do not approve

I feel that you, in the post that contains the above words, are attacking me for having a message that you do not approve of.

Let's do remember Paul goes on to say that was his opinion, that's it not something necessary for people in the church. People are free to disagree with him. It's not worth fighting over.

1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

1 Corinthians 11:16 tells us that the commandments given by Paul concerning propriety in worship in 1 Corinthians 11:1-15 are not based on the culture of the day. In 1 Corinthians 11:10 the reasoning for the commandments is that it has to do with the fact that angels are watching. Which indicates that there is something in God that requires these things in the eternal sense.

Now a different passage which speaks on a similar subject does tell us, If any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

So it is true that it is not worth fighting over.

If anyone wants to rebel against these scriptures, what do I have to say about it? Do what you're going to do.

Ecc 11:9, Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.
 
Last edited:

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I feel that you, in the post that contains the above words, are attacking me for having a message that you do not approve of.

I do not address my writing to you personally. But you address your replies to me personally. As a matter of fact I, as a rule, do not reply to what you write in an OP.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Let's do remember Paul goes on to say that was his opinion, that's it not something necessary for people in the church. People are free to disagree with him. It's not worth fighting over.

1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
That verse is THE OPPOSITE of a personal opinion. What Paul says there is that all the churches of God have a custom of having Christian women cover their heads during worship. So "we have no such custom" of UNCOVERING heads, for those who seek to be contentious, and wish to argue about this matter.

It is impossible that the Holy Spirit would contradict Himself at the very end of this passage. But the way it worded leads to the wrong conclusion.