Self-Indulgence

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Episkopos

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The Lord has been putting this subject on my heart lately. I think that this is an important subject and necessary to understand properly for any kind of spiritual maturity.

Now we all indulge our flesh to some degree and at some point if we are walking in our own strength. There are different levels of indulgence of the flesh...some quite innocuous but others quite or very harmful.

Just when we may think we are not indulging our flesh in carnal things, we may then become indulgers of religious judgment on others for THEIR more obvious indulgences. And this is the very worst kind of indulgence we can undertake. How can we judge others for their indulgences as we indulge our own flesh in judging them?

So we are all in the same boat when we are walking in our own strength...no matter how much or little we seem to be in control of ourselves. Sin is ever present. It is like trying to put too much water into too little a glass. There will be spillage. There will be indulgence. It is our responsibility to see that that spillage is kept under some control...especially in regards to others.

Of course ALL that is not of faith is sin. We sin when we indulge our flesh. But not all sins lead to death (the 2nd death). Some sins are petty sins....sins of omission or carnal preference. We should go easy on people, and ourselves, for these things (unless the Holy Spirit is convicting us).

I have already spoken on the death away from holiness and the presence of God...that is the first death. It was the death experienced by Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden.

But there is another layer of death...and that is a complete loss of life through the destruction of the soul. That is the 2nd death.

There are sins (indulgences) that do lead to death.

So in the flesh we struggle to keep our flesh at bay. Of course no one can do this perfectly (there will be spillages along the way). But this is the human condition of all people that are NOT yet crucified with Christ.
 

Episkopos

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When one is crucified with Christ, the desires of the flesh are nailed to the cross. If a person is Christ's (in ownership) then his flesh is crucified...out of the way...so that he might serve the Lord fully...without need to indulge his own desires.

No longer I but Christ.

Now Jesus NEVER indulged His flesh. He had the very same bodies that we have...yet He looked to His Father in all things.

John 5:30
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Who can say that they do NOTHING of themselves?

Now there are many faithful believers that seek the will of God on a daily basis....even perhaps hourly. And this is a good thing. But do these do ALL things that way? So then we must be crucified with Christ to be perfectly innocent of all fleshly indulgences.....be they trifling or severe. Then we can walk in the power of the risen Christ, to do exactly as He did.

So we are either in the flesh...in our own power and independent choices. Or, we are in the Spirit, fully crucified to the lusts and desires of this world, where we are crucified to this world...and the world is crucified to us.

Galatians 6:14
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
 

Windmillcharge

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So in the flesh we struggle to keep our flesh at bay

Self indulgence certainly spoils many relationships if not restrained.
But the flesh or our physical beings is not inherently evil. That is our sinful nature.
 

Episkopos

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Now can we be justified IN our indulgences? Yes...God is merciful. All is possible with God...since even children innocently indulge their fleshly whims. But we can never justify our indulgences before the Lord. God can justify a person in the flesh if that person's heart is righteous. Then it is a question of power or strength. A weak person can still have a righteous heart even though the fleshly spillage is present.

God's grace empowers us to overcome our weaknesses in the flesh. But not everyone is aware of God's grace. Many who profess to have grace remain ignorant of it's power over the carnal life. His grace is still the best kept secret in the world...even among believers. We will all be judged according to what we have been given...and what we know. So we know that believers will be judged harder for their dishonesties.

It comes down to our dependence on God.

Do we understand what it means to have a Master? can we be happy to be a servant? Or is the spirit of personal freedom and independence so strong in us that our flesh looks to that instead of Christ filling our weakness in a total dependence on God? i fear that many of us Westerners idolize our personal freedoms and independence (live free or die). I think we must choose death to self over the freedom of self. We are to choose dependence on God over independence of the carnal man to freely choose to do what he wants all the time.

Many believers look to God in an external dependency...for health, jobs, security...etc. But far less depend on God inwardly...always rejoicing in the Lord in a dependence on His grace to empower their lives continually in all things and at all times. Only by grace is this possible.

Our strength fades...we grow weary. But God's Spirit never does. God doesn't require sleep as we do. :)
 

Willie T

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Are you sitting on a cushioned chair, the Air Conditioned room in your unnecessarily over-sized home (or office) lighted by electric lighting, while typing on that expensive electronic marvel in front of you? (How was breakfast this morning, BTW?)
We need to be relatively realistic about these things.
 

marks

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Are you sitting on a cushioned chair, the Air Conditioned room in your unnecessarily over-sized home (or office) lighted by electric lighting, while typing on that expensive electronic marvel in front of you? (How was breakfast this morning, BTW?)
We need to be relatively realistic about these things.
I think episkopos wants to start arbitrating how much ice cream I eat before bed. Well, I'm not telling!

But breakfast was wonderful!

1 cup of goat yogurt with 1/2 cup of granola. This is what God has guided me to, it's healthy, and I love it! All things are pure to the pure. All things are good, being received with thanksgiving and supplication.

Yes, of course, we're not to go overboard on the ice cream. But thankfully I don't need someone else to tell me what the Holy Spirit already works in me.

It think it's realistic to remember these things are relative between us and our Father.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Just when we may think we are not indulging our flesh in carnal things, we may then become indulgers of religious judgment on others for THEIR more obvious indulgences. And this is the very worst kind of indulgence we can undertake. How can we judge others for their indulgences as we indulge our own flesh in judging them?
All levity aside, I think this is very expressive.

Judging another's servant.

And whatever form it takes. You say, "as we indulge our own flesh in judging them", all judging of others by you is from the flesh.

So yes, it's bad enough when we start letting our own flesh appetites get the better of us, worse still when we appoint ourselves as the judge of others. Hopefully we can rise above that.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Or is the spirit of personal freedom and independence so strong in us that our flesh looks to that instead of Christ filling our weakness in a total dependence on God?

If we look to the flesh, we will certainly get a fleshy response.

But what we need to remember is that the freedom we know in Christ is absolute. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. It is for freedom that Christ made us free.

But not so that we can turn around and live as though enslaved to sin. That's not liberty. That is to ignore Christ's gift.

Much love!
 
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marks

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But there is another layer of death...and that is a complete loss of life through the destruction of the soul. That is the 2nd death.

There are sins (indulgences) that do lead to death.

To those not redeemed, all sins lead to spiritual death. For the redeemed, we are alive forevermore.

But I do realize that you preach a "works" salvation, which can be won or lost based on your behavior.

Much love!
 
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Episkopos

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Are you sitting on a cushioned chair, the Air Conditioned room in your unnecessarily over-sized home (or office) lighted by electric lighting, while typing on that expensive electronic marvel in front of you? (How was breakfast this morning, BTW?)
We need to be relatively realistic about these things.


Being "dead to self" is not by a human effort...it is a gift of God...by grace. At that point what seems "normal" has nothing to do with what we once found to be normal. We do things quite instinctively as we have always done until we question what we are living by. But it is good to question these suppositions and well worn traits to compare these with the walk in Christ.

Jesus said...The Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.

Was Jesus a pilgrim and stranger to this earth? Are we so used to this world that we take belonging to it as a given? Are we not also to be pilgrims and strangers here?

What is being realistic about? About our being outside the realm of God and at home here?
 

Truth

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Was Jesus a pilgrim and stranger to this earth? Are we so used to this world that we take belonging to it as a given? Are we not also to be pilgrims and strangers here?

What is being realistic about? About our being outside the realm of God and at home here?

Well said! This is true, for as I do not feel at home in this realm!
Now concerning indulgence, Did not Our Creator, Create Us with certain necessary Appetites'?
Our senses, Sight, Smell, Taste, Feel, Hear? Let us not forget the Emotional side effects of said Appetites!
We are in this world, But we are not to be liken to it! He overcame the World, and so should we, Through the Grace Of God, His Power, not of our own. For we can do nothing apart from Them. Father & Son, they are of one mind!
 

Episkopos

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In our time the standard of Christianity has been lowered into what people can do in their own strength...not what grace can do in a person. It is seen as offensive to many to post about the victory in Christ.

The good news is for they who are weak in need of strength...a strength made available through grace. Salvation is away from sin...not in sin. But it seems that less and less people experience this victory.

People look to God but expect very little from Him. It is the sign of the times.

The bible is so often subverted from the precious truth it means to convey. So the word remains constant...even in this time of subversion. We can turn to God at any time.

But who is being helped in this religious time of misappropriation of the biblical message? We need the grace of God. Short-circuiting God's message to us only hurts us.

Where is the faith that releases the full power of grace in His church?
 

VictoryinJesus

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Jesus said...The Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.

Was Jesus a pilgrim and stranger to this earth? Are we so used to this world that we take belonging to it as a given? Are we not also to be pilgrims and strangers here?

“The Son of Man has nowhere to lay His Head.” Is no longer the case? in Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Curious what your perspective is on Ephesians 2:18-22
[18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
 
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Helen

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So in the flesh we struggle to keep our flesh at bay. Of course no one can do this perfectly (there will be spillages along the way). But this is the human condition of all people that are NOT yet crucified with Christ.


We 'struggle' if we have not come fully to the faith.
If we have not had a vision of the power of the cross where our old man was crucified with Jesus Christ our Lord.
If we refuse this , and in the face of it still declare that the old man is still alive...woe unto us...life will be 'a struggle' unto the very end!!!

Many waste so much time in 'trying' to put to death the old man, rather than 'reckoning it dead' , and themselves alive to Christ.
 

VictoryinJesus

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We 'struggle' if we have not come fully to the faith.
If we have not had a vision of the power of the cross where our old man was crucified with Jesus Christ our Lord.
If we refuse this , and in the face of it still declare that the old man is still alive...woe unto us...life will be 'a struggle' unto the very end!!!

Many waste so much time in 'trying' to put to death the old man, rather than 'reckoning it dead' , and themselves alive to Christ.

Well said.
 

Helen

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Well said.

Just like from the beginning in the Garden, we have a choice.
We can believe what God says about us, or we can believe the lies of the devil...who will always tell us that our old man is still alive and needs dealing with daily.

I think Paul was showing us the old man in Rom 7 ( that he used to be) and in Rom 8 the man who has seen the glory of what Jesus did for us on the cross, once and for all.

But, so often we/old man "feels" so alive...but we must continue to reject the lie and reckon ourselves dead indeed to sin.

I don't think that the "Hath God said..." will ever go away...the tool of the Enemy has always been - doubt...if he can find a place to sow it in us.

just my two cents ....H
 

marks

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If we can only come to understand that we're not waiting for something we don't have. By faith alone in Christ alone we stand in grace. And God gave us His grace in Christ. And now we can live, if we will only believe.

And then we find, there is no struggle, because the battle is already won.

I'd like to repeat that.

Christ in me is sufficient for everything to maintain me in holiness and righteousness and life and peace and joy. I trust Him for this, and find that life is this way.

Come to rest in Christ!

Much love!
 

Lady Crosstalk

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We 'struggle' if we have not come fully to the faith.
If we have not had a vision of the power of the cross where our old man was crucified with Jesus Christ our Lord.
If we refuse this , and in the face of it still declare that the old man is still alive...woe unto us...life will be 'a struggle' unto the very end!!!

Many waste so much time in 'trying' to put to death the old man, rather than 'reckoning it dead' , and themselves alive to Christ.

I once heard the testimony of a gambling addict/alcoholic (these two types of slavery often go together). He said that, when he came to Christ, he was at the "end of the rope," having lost his family through divorce and nearly all of his possessions. He was in severe depression and contemplating suicide. But God had another plan for this man's life. Even when the man came to Christ, he said he had no intention to give up drinking (and the sexual sin that often accompanies alcoholism) and gambling. But, ultimately, God moved powerfully in this man's life through His Holy Spirit. After an encounter with the Holy Spirit, the man said that he was suddenly stricken with a total distaste for drinking and gambling. He went on to finish his university degree, become a teacher and serve the Lord in all his ways. God strives with His children--so that we really don't need to. All we need is to lay our lives bare before Him, in faith, and He will take on our burdens. He is the "Great Physician"--healing us from all wounds (whether inflicted by others or by ourselves).