Should we pray the imprecatory psalms?

Soverign Grace · Oct 2, 2019

Mayflower said:
To me honestly, I don't know what these Psalms are. I never heard this term and will have to look it up. Are there certain ones you are talking about?

They're prayers for vengeance upon one's enemies: https://www.theopedia.com/imprecatory-psalms

You can find a spectrum of views regarding praying them - it's very confusing.

Soverign Grace · Oct 2, 2019

Giuliano said:
There was -- at that time -- children who were born inclined to great wickedness. Abraham was told his offspring would not enter the Land of Promise until the "iniquity" of the Amorites was full.

Genesis 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

As long as the iniquity is incomplete, there is a chance for repentance. God often defers judgment then until the wickedness is so great, there is no hope for change.

We see something similar in Sodom. For some odd reason, the KJV changes the order of words -- so let me cite Young's Literal.

YLT Genesis 19:4 Before they lie down, the men of the city -- men of Sodom -- have come round about against the house, from young even unto aged, all the people from the extremity;

Why young first? They were the instigators. The adults were wicked enough; but their children were even worse. It was God's plan, of course, that every nation and tribe be represented in Heaven; so Lot's two daughters played a key role -- and both became ancestors of Jesus eventually.

The intense evil present in the world then has been largely dealt with; but back then, I believe some parents were so evil, God did not permit children to be born to them. Their offspring were demonic. If I'm right, thank goodness that evil was wiped out.

These were the wicked ones David said were corrupt from birth.

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

I don't think of them as human to tell the truth. They looked like humans; but they had nothing of the image and likeness of God about them. They were like the beasts of the earth but worse since they were demonic.

They weren't completely wiped out though. They attempted to marry into the Aaronic priestly line -- they did in fact -- Joshua the High Priest had done nothing when his sons married pagan women. The serpent's seed was trying to infiltrate the line of the High Priests. That is what got him in trouble with Satan, the Jews say. He repented and had his sons divorce those pagans, so he was given clean garments again by God.

I think too that the seed of the serpent had intermarried with the priestly class over time -- which was the reason Jesus said they were children of the serpent, not of Abraham. The whole Temple system had been undermined. I think many of the serpent's children got wiped out in 70 AD.

It is a hard concept to fathom of how this could be; but I don't think we have to worry too much about it today, thanks to David and others like him. Don't forget that David eliminated much evil, and then his son reigned in peace. Judah is like that -- the lion that rages until "shiloh" or "peace" comes.

Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

In the New Testament, we see it being said the Lion of Judah will open the Seals, but the lion doesn't. The lamb does. The lion has become the lamb.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

That's very interesting - I hadn't linked Psalm 58:3 like that. Yet we see overt wickedness being practiced today so a lot of evil has been allowed to be perpetrated. I was reading yesterday that the Jews in Israel are not the biblical jews - they're Ashkenazi and therefore imposters. They've done much evil to America.

I had to deal with a situation where there was much corruption - one after another person joined in, in a conspiracy of silence, knowing full well of the evil being perpetrated - it let me see just how corrupt some people have truly become. There are no moral underpinnings. You would expect God to act yet I have not seen it - yet. Yet we read throughout the Psalms that God is a God of justice - but we don't see much justice in the world.

Giuliano · Oct 2, 2019

Soverign Grace said:
That's very interesting - I hadn't linked Psalm 58:3 like that. Yet we see overt wickedness being practiced today so a lot of evil has been allowed to be perpetrated. I was reading yesterday that the Jews in Israel are not the biblical jews - they're Ashkenazi and therefore imposters. They've done much evil to America.

I wouldn't call them impostors; but I would say most of them were not of the original Israel. Many were grafted in, and those can be cut off as Paul tells us.

I had to deal with a situation where there was much corruption - one after another person joined in, in a conspiracy of silence, knowing full well of the evil being perpetrated - it let me see just how corrupt some people have truly become. There are no moral underpinnings. You would expect God to act yet I have not seen it - yet. Yet we read throughout the Psalms that God is a God of justice - but we don't see much justice in the world.

We can pray for the protection of the innocent. I don't pray against evil -- don't resist it -- but pray for the protection of the innocent. Let God decide how that comes about. If He decides the wicked need to be removed, so be it. I won't cry.

I don't know, but I have a feeling that the iniquity we can see today may not have yet reached it fullness. When it does, then I expect God to take strong action.

Mayflower · Oct 2, 2019

Soverign Grace said:
They're prayers for vengeance upon one's enemies: https://www.theopedia.com/imprecatory-psalms

You can find a spectrum of views regarding praying them - it's very confusing.

I have some close friends that pray to break those who need to be broken. I wonder if they ever prayed this for me in those days. I personally would rather pray for God to show my enemies the light rather then pray an all out prayer of vengeance.

Of course, I have never been through anything like King David.

CharismaticLady · Oct 2, 2019

Soverign Grace said:
What fades is a sense of closeness and some kind of infusion of faith.

What do you doubt?

marks · Oct 2, 2019

Windmillcharge said:
I would be careful chosing the psalm to use. Not everyone has a detailed knowledge of the psalms, which is why I suggest telling God what is wrong.

In this I mean that as we read the Psalms, the emotional language penetrates into our minds, renewing us emotionally according to God's design. Not that we search through the Psalms til we find the right wording to match how I feel, more like,

Anger is such a strong emotion, and so common among man. Anger is also prominently featured in the Psalms. We read of David's anger, hot words of rage, but then they always end in being comforted by God, by turning things over to God, by trusting in God.

As we renew our minds according to the words of Scripture, I think that we reform our thinking to think in these ways. So that though I become blindingly angry over something, yet I will look to God for redress, and for comfort, and for restoration to peace and joy.

Much the same with Ecclesiastes. Taking that book in, meditating on it, filling one's self with it, reforms our world view to match God's.

So mostly I recommend reading over and over and over all the Words of Scripture, until this becomes the language of your mind, and the pattern for your thoughts. This is renewing the mind to be conformed to the mind of Christ.

Much love!

marks · Oct 2, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Why does it fade? Do you start doubting the verse was a message to you? Well, now you don't have to. Now, you know it WAS from God to YOU.

A pity I can only give one "Like"!

Remember! All the things the Lord has given!

Much love!

marks · Oct 2, 2019

Soverign Grace said:
Yes I have had that - and quite a burst of faith following it. But then it fades.

That's interesting - I've never heard that before.

Remember . . . God knew you when He wrote the Bible. He knew you would read His words, and He wrote to you.

The one thing in this world that we can touch, and hold, and know without a doubt that this is actually what God said, is the Bible. I guess I've learned to look at it in the same sort of way I do this forum.

I log on to see what others have written, and carefully read and re-read as we all work to grow together. I want to understand what's being said so I can both learn and appropriately respond. Hopefully both are happening!

And when I pick up my Bible, I want to read God's "post" to me. His word will accomplish His purpose, and His purpose is to conform me to the image of Jesus, to be one of His brothers. So I know what I'll read will contain that which will both silence the mind of the flesh, and make alive the mind of Christ.

And this happens as I learn about God, as I come to hear His voice to me in the words I read, as I seek for Him. As we know, the one who seeks, finds.

You've hit the nail on the head, I think. God shows us amazing and wonderful things, and we forget.

God told Moses that after such and such, the Israelites would "believe you forever". But what was going to happen was them being trapped against the cliffs and against the sea by the Egyptian army. Why is it so hard for us to learn? God says, Trust Me, and if we do, all is well. But we so often don't. Then some terrible seeming thing happens, God delivers us, we grow in our trust, and we need to remember all that He has done for us.

Much love!

brakelite · Oct 2, 2019

Soverign Grace said:
That verse in Micah is one of my favorite. I read throughout the bible that God is a God of justice yet we don't see much of justice in this world. I tell God that He put that desire for justice within our hearts and ask Him what are we to do when we don't see it. David apparently experienced heavy attacks to have prayed so strongly - and a number of times I've wondered where God's promises for justice are when answers don't come. People are absolutely corrupt these days and I feel like Habakuk. Someone in local government is corrupt and we reported it and it was sickening to see how this politically connected person was absolved by all the people in government who should have held her accountable and fired her - one after another refused to take action and money was stolen from us. It's hard when you ask God to step in and nothing happens. This world is getting harder to live in because there are no generally accepted morals anymore. "Every man does what is right in his own eyes..."

It's interesting that pastors are divided over whether to pray the imprecatory psalms or not.

Life can be hard, no doubt about that. I started a thread that deals with this matter in a way, entitled Verdict...Guilty. I think, lol. You may find some help and encouragement in there as the thread develops. God bless.

Soverign Grace · Oct 3, 2019

Giuliano said:
We ought not take justice into our own hands. Let the rulers of the world do it. If they're faithful to their ordained purpose, they will root out evil.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

If the rulers are unfaithful and do not act to preserve the good while stamping out evil, God has His ways of removing their authority. Think of Pharaoh who ordered children killed and who refused to allow Israel religious freedom. He was creating evil and preventing good, so God took him out. We needn't do it. God takes care of such things.

I have seen great evil committed by those in authority, yet I have not seen all removed. I do remember that one evil individual was removed, and a friend and I prayed for a corrupt principal to be removed and he was. But I've dealt with other evil individuals who God seemingly allowed to retain their positions. Maybe it hasn't happened yet or God has other plans. It's sometimes hard to have faith that God will act when you're staring into the face of evil rulers.

Soverign Grace · Oct 3, 2019

Giuliano said:
I wouldn't call them impostors; but I would say most of them were not of the original Israel. Many were grafted in, and those can be cut off as Paul tells us.

We can pray for the protection of the innocent. I don't pray against evil -- don't resist it -- but pray for the protection of the innocent. Let God decide how that comes about. If He decides the wicked need to be removed, so be it. I won't cry.

I don't know, but I have a feeling that the iniquity we can see today may not have yet reached it fullness. When it does, then I expect God to take strong action.

I don't know a lot about it yet - I happened across and article on the Ashkenazis.

I've had to pray against evil as Satan has at times used evil people to attack. I hope and pray the iniquity has reached its fulness - I cannot imagine things getting worse. "No one is righteous" has been what I've found out - many have been given over to evil. It's such a relief to be in church or bible study because much of the world is corrupt now.

Soverign Grace · Oct 3, 2019

brakelite said:
Life can be hard, no doubt about that. I started a thread that deals with this matter in a way, entitled Verdict...Guilty. I think, lol. You may find some help and encouragement in there as the thread develops. God bless.

Thanks Brakelite - I'll look for it.

Giuliano · Oct 3, 2019

Soverign Grace said:
I don't know a lot about it yet - I happened across and article on the Ashkenazis.

I've had to pray against evil as Satan has at times used evil people to attack. I hope and pray the iniquity has reached its fulness - I cannot imagine things getting worse. "No one is righteous" has been what I've found out - many have been given over to evil. It's such a relief to be in church or bible study because much of the world is corrupt now.

I try never to pray against anyone. I think it's best to look for who's innocent, or mostly innocent, and pray for their protection.

Soverign Grace · Oct 4, 2019

Giuliano said:
I try never to pray against anyone. I think it's best to look for who's innocent, or mostly innocent, and pray for their protection.

I'm unsure what is right - I think the psalms are in the Bible for a reason - but I vacillate because there are opposing Scriptures - turn the other cheek. I had a thread on it and I still can't come to some kind of peace regarding it. I'm going to continue to seek God because something doesn't click.

Search

Search

Should we pray the imprecatory psalms?

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member

Giuliano

Well-Known Member

Mayflower

Well-Known Member

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member

marks

Well-Known Member

marks

Well-Known Member

marks

Well-Known Member

brakelite

Guest

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member

Giuliano

Well-Known Member

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member

Similar threads