10 different NT warning-types against eternal security

There are those who produce heresies (such as Universalism) and that is what the Bible is for...to defend the truth as it exists on every subject.

justbyfaith said:

There are those who produce heresies (such as Universalism) and that is what the Bible is for...to defend the truth as it exists on every subject.

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u·ni·ver·sal·ism
/ˌyo͞onəˈvərsəˌlizəm/
noun

Again thank you JBF.
Universalism
The belief that all humankind will eventually be saved.

1. It is a doctrine stating that every human soul will ultimately be reconciled to God.

God is real and makes sense. The doctrine of universalism does not make any sense. How would that work? How could that work? I once had a preacher tell me that reasoning and logic cannot be applied to the scriptures or God! He got a lecture! God is the most intelligent being, He is logical and His reasoning is the best. We should expect the scriptures to make sense and in most cases not contradictory. When we cannot understand the scriptures it can be our lack of understanding and sometime we do not know the circumstances that the words were said. Get behind me Satan! He said to Peter. You must hate your mother and father to be my disciple. We don't know all that was going on there. But over all the scriptures make sense. But don't make religions out of scriptures that do not make sense or are not clearly explained.

Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the World. Christ did just that, He took away the Old Testament system of sin and tally. Now, that being done, as Christian, our sins are between us and Christ, as members of the family of God. He is the ultimate judge. You think that means that sin is not a threat, that morality is not important! Wrong thinking. Keep in mind that the Jews were not threatened with hell. If God was mad at them He would address their punishment in this world....How many times did He sell them into the hands of their enemies? Our sins can land us in a burning hell for eternity. No, Christian sins are the most dangerous! But unlike the Old Testament, we have an advocate

1st John 2:1-5
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:

This scripture sums it up. His atoning sacrifice was for sins of the whole world. That system. John the Baptist was standing with Jews. He was referring to their system of sin and tally, that had no provision for forgiveness or a relationship with God. But that did not stop sin, it did not reduce morality. In effect it increased the liability of sin and He increased morality. Christ's teaching are divinely moral. Christ is not worried about the color of the cattle in the fields or raisins. He is not going to regulate selling your daughter into slavery. This is higher morals with higher responsibilities. Obedience alone is a limited understanding of what it is to be Christian, because that is just the beginning. Following Christ's teachings, using him as an example. You are of no use to Christianity sitting in a closest, or even your homes. In effect we have made Christianity in to a social club of people that edify themselves by what they don't do.

You and I are going to sin, and you and I do not want that, sin crouches at our doorstep and it want us! And if you sin enough, it will become you and you will receive the punishment for sin in your life and in the destination ahead. As Christians, when we sin, we do not sin against the pale expression of the morality of the Mosaic Law, we sin against Christ. 1st John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Now this is probably where Universalism come from, thinking this scripture means perpetual forgiveness. How many times did Christ tell us to forgive? But then are you going to forgive the thief even once, if he is asking for forgiveness, as he runs out the door with your belongings? How can Christ forgive a sin you do not intend to stop? Your repentance is a lie! Sin onto death, you will die in your sins. Habitual sins are the most damning! Paul was forgiven for how many murders? We do not understand the power or the extent of Christ forgiveness? Did he forgive the people that crucified Him? Don't try to understand or put yourself in the judgement seat of Christ, that is His business.

Again I am going to point out that the singular focus on sin is wrong thinking. What good are we if we are sinless in a closet? How many threads on this forum discusses what we should be doing as Christians, there should be. Oh I know, you are not saved by works or deeds. But most of the time that is just a lazy man's approach to religion. Shouldn't we be discussing what it is to apply our religion. If we believe in Christ and how He lived, shouldn't we be helping one another. Charity is a wonderful thing but it is not giving of your time, your companionship, or your heart. That point will become painfully clear to you, when you are in a nursing home and no one comes to visit.

I think we can come up with scriptures about stacking up rewards in heaven. If you exhaust yourself doing the things you should be doing, you will not have the energy or the time to sin. Walk the walk....walk with Christ....He will be there when you fall, and if you have been doing His business on earth, He will dust you off and send you on your way.

Davy said:

There's a condition for Israel's future salvation. It depends on their belief on Jesus Christ as Messiah once God removes the blindness He put upon them. No one is automatically saved just by blood birth. We learn that even back in Old Testament times as only the believing remnant of Israel saved were under God's grace and election.

Calvinism is the idea that our fates are already chosen for us, i.e., that we believe on Jesus because God called us to believe before the foundation of this world (Ephesians 2). That is actually true, for 'some', like the OT Patriarchs, prophets, and Christ's Apostles. That is even shown in John 17, but John 17 also reveals a 2nd group that believe from the preaching by Christ's sent Apostles. Then Jesus prayed that we all become one in Him and The Father, one Body.

Thus there is an election according to grace like Paul taught, Paul himself being one of them, as Christ divinely intervened in his life and converted him. But the rest of us who come to believe on Jesus by our own free will, we are called, but not chosen like Paul, the Apostles and OT saints. This is why it's up to us to work out our own salvation by staying in Christ Jesus all the way to the end of this world. But for those who are chosen elect, like Paul, Christ will divinely intervene in their lives, even like Jonah who tried to get out of his duty he was chosen for by God.

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'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
Having pre-destinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
(Ephesians 1:1-6)

Hello @Davy,

With respect I do not share your understanding expressed in the last two paragraphs of your entry.

I believe that God, loved and fore-ordained the Lord Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world (John 17:24 & 1 Peter 1:20): and that Paul in writing to 'the faithful in Christ Jesus' (their risen and glorified Head) tells them that they too have not only been blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: but were also 'chosen' 'in Him' 'before the foundation of the world'; that they should be 'holy and without blame' before Him in love. He pre-destined them, unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself: this was according to the good pleasure of His will; and was to the praise of the glory of His grace; wherein He had made them accepted in the Beloved.

This was written to the believers at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: and along with Colossions and Philippians, 2 Timothy and Titus, was written after Paul received the revelation of God concerning the Church which is His Body, the Fulness of Him that filleth all in all: following the descent of Israel as a nation into the blindness of unbelief, and the sending of salvation to the Gentiles (see Acts 28).

These were Gentiles in the flesh, who had been without Christ, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. These were made 'nigh' by the blood of Christ, and were 'strangers' and 'foreigners' no more, but were fellow-citizens with the saints and of the household of God.

This is the church I identify myself with, and I share their hope, in Christ Jesus the Lord.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

* Please see reply #260

Zachary said:

In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.

Warnings about losing eternal life
Luke 9:23-25 ● “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will
lose it (eternal life), but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit
is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost (eternally)?”
.

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(Luke 9:23-25) This setting here begins with the Kingdom Gospel. Not the Gospel of Grace. (9:2)"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God...." This was directed only to the house of Israel. (Matt. 10:5)

Note that when Christ asked the disciples, (Luke:20) "...whom say ye that I am?", Peter responded, "The Christ of God" (20). And Christ said, 'tell no man that thing'. (21) In other words, don't follow Me now as One sent from God. Follow Me as a condemned criminal heading to death on the Cross. Will you identify with Me now?

There were plenty of people following Christ at this time. But followers don't necessarily mean they are saved or born-again. Christ tells the disciples His purpose now is to go to Jerusalem and be killed and then raised from the dead. (22) If any want to follow Me, then they must be willing to identify with Me as heading towards death and the cross. (23) Christ says if you want to follow me, you must eat my flesh and drink my blood. (John 6:54) As a result many disciples quite following. (6:66)

This is not characterizing how to be born-again. It is characterizing the attitude the believer in Christ should have. Believers can stray away from this right attitude in following Christ. Just look at Peter. He made that grand confession, yet he later denied the Lord three times. Is that a loss of eternal salvation? Will Jesus exhibit shame towards Peter when he returns? ( Luke 9:26) Peter definitely was the loser in his walk of salvation, in those denials of Christ. At the moment he gained his life in the world...but in reality he lost it to God, as he was not living as he should. Not eternal life. Discipleship.

Stranger

Zachary said:

In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.

Warnings about gaining eternal death
Romans 6:16-23 ● “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves)
of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness”
.

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Note that you had to add 'eternal'.

This is not about gaining or losing eternal life. It is about a believer not letting sin have dominion over him. (Rom. 6:14) The believer is under grace. But does that mean he should sin just because he is not under law? (14-15) Of course not. If you yield yourself a servant to one, then his servant you are. (16) Even as a believer. If we yield ourselves as to sins of the flesh, then we become servants of the flesh. And death works in us as opposed to righteousness.

Note how (Rom. 6:6) and (6:11-12) say the same thing:

(6:6) "Knowing this that our old man is crucified with him"
(6:11) "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin but alive unto God"

(6:6) "that the body of sin might be destroyed"
(6:12) "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body"

(6:6) "that henceforth we should not serve sin."
(6:12) that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

Our body of sin will always be a body of sin. Even when you are walking in the Spirit, and yielding your body to the Spirit, the body is still a body of sin and will be until it dies. But it doesn't have to reign over us. Note in (Rom. 6:13) Paul, in giving the solution to this constant problem the believers have, doesn't say, quit doing this or that. No, he first says, yield to God. Then follows the yielding of your members to righteousness. Direct your attention to God, and the body will be brought to heel. (Gal. 5:16) "...walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh."

You have taken verses that are given for the believer to learn how to walk in this life with a sinful body and born-again Spirit and have turned them into a legalistic demand from God producing nothing but condemnation.

Stranger

Zachary said:

In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.



Warnings about being shut out of the kingdom of God
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ● “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit
the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous,
nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”


.

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And Paul immediately says, (1 Cor. 6:11) "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Those things listed in (1 Cor. 6:9-10) describe the unrighteous. Describe the believers before they were saved. It doesn't describe them now.

That which God calls clean it is unwise to call unclean. (Acts 10:15)

Stranger

charity said:

* I do not agree with your summation here, @dave. Yet, I cannot respond to it at the moment, being called upon to do something else by my husband at the moment, which requires that I go off-line. Hopefully, I will be able to return to it when I am free.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

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You may disagree with the doctrines of the Calvinists and Reformers, but that's a lot of the basis of where you're coming from. The way you quote Scripture in such a broad coverage absolutist sense is why I say that. Those movements started in Germany in the 15th century, and continued to much of Europe and then to the Americas through the New England Puritan movement.

For example, the Jeremiah 31 Scripture you quote is 'conditional', even for Israel. It depends on those believing on Christ Jesus when He appears. The part of Israel God blinded per Romans 11 is about the orthodox Jews. God did not blind all of Israel. He preserved a remnant of the seed of Israel like Paul also said in Romans 11. And those are the ones Paul said are the election according to grace. That is not MY summation, nor MY opinion. It is written Scripture. All must bow to Jesus Christ to be saved regardless of their birth, and regardless of your interpretation of Jer.31:33-34 like it's automatically applied to all Israel when it's still dependent upon believe on Jesus Christ.

Stranger said:

Note that you had to add 'eternal'.

This is not about gaining or losing eternal life. It is about a believer not letting sin have dominion over him. (Rom. 6:14) The believer is under grace. But does that mean he should sin just because he is not under law? (14-15) Of course not. If you yield yourself a servant to one, then his servant you are. (16) Even as a believer. If we yield ourselves as to sins of the flesh, then we become servants of the flesh. And death works in us as opposed to righteousness.

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It's good to note what Paul also said in Galatians 5, which goes with the Book of Romans where both set Christian doctrine.

In Galatians 5, Apostle Paul declares that IF... we walk by The Spirit, then we won't be doing anything against God's laws. He showed that only if we walk by The Spirit then are we dead to the law, and that means doing the good things which there is no law against.

But if we instead walk by our flesh, then we put ourselves back under the law, for even as he said in 1 Timothy 1, the law wasn't made for the righteous man, but for the sinner and ungodly.

It is especially that Galatians 5 chapter that shows us how to properly interpret those things in Romans. It means we have to be watchful against sin and repent when we do slip up and sin.

charity said:

'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
Having pre-destinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
(Ephesians 1:1-6)

Hello @Davy,

With respect I do not share your understanding expressed in the last two paragraphs of your entry.

I believe that God, loved and fore-ordained the Lord Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world (John 17:24 & 1 Peter 1:20): and that Paul in writing to 'the faithful in Christ Jesus' (their risen and glorified Head) tells them that they too have not only been blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: but were also 'chosen' 'in Him' 'before the foundation of the world'; that they should be 'holy and without blame' before Him in love. He pre-destined them, unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself: this was according to the good pleasure of His will; and was to the praise of the glory of His grace; wherein He had made them accepted in the Beloved.

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You have chosen to believe a Calvinist doctrine, i.e., that those who have believed on Jesus, being predestined to Salvation, can never fall away. That's really what you are saying. What you're not seeing is the distinction God's Word makes between a very elect that indeed has been 'chosen' compared to another group that has been 'called' only, and must use their own free will to believe on Jesus.

John 17 covers this matter I speak of, so let's not pretend that you can just slap that fore-ordained idea out and try to use John 17 to back it up...

(As usual, I have to quote Scripture to show the fallacy of following men's doctrines):

John 17:16-22
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

These above our Lord Jesus is speaking of are His Apostles He was praying for. The idea of being 'sent' is where the Greek word for apostle comes from. Jesus showed His Apostles were owned by The Father before, and gave them to Him. This part is not about all believers. It is about a very elect group, like His Apostles He first chose, especially like Apostle Paul whom He divinely intervened with and converted (Acts 9).


20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
22 And the glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one:
KJV

Those in bold red above is a 2nd group of believers.

These are us, elect according to our free will belief on Christ Jesus. When we believe by the preaching of The Gospel by those Jesus sends, then we become elect with them, and both become one body in Christ Jesus. This 2nd group applies to ANYONE who hears The Gospel of Jesus Christ by those 'sent' to preach it to the nations and believes on Jesus Christ. That is the majority of us Christians today.

As per the OT example of Jonah, one that was sent by God to go preach to those at Nineveh, Jonah tried to get out of his chosen sent duty, and God directly intervened to cause Jonah to do it. This Jesus does not do for every believer on Him. Not all fit the case of Jonah or the Apostles. Instead, we most often receive just an inner urge by The Holy Spirit in serving Jesus. We can choose not to do it and our Lord will not intervene against our free will. Not so with those whom He 'sent'. If you're not able to grasp that from Scripture, as it is well written of, then you have simply chosen to follow a doctrine of men on this matter instead.

^:rolleyes
wow, its way worse than i thought. Among most "Christians" anyway.
careful you dont start believing everything you think k bro?

Zachary said:

In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.

Warnings about losing eternal life
Luke 9:23-25 ● “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will
lose it (eternal life), but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit
is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost (eternally)?”

Warnings about gaining eternal death
Romans 6:16-23 ● “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves)
of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness”

Warnings about being shut out of the kingdom of God
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ● “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit
the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous,
nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Warnings about being shut out of the New Jerusalem
Revelation 22:14-15 ● “Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through
the gates of the city. But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually
immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”

Warnings about being blotted out of the Book of Life
Revelation 3:5 ● “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life”
Please note: the “overcomer” of 1 John 5:4-5 only overcomes “the world”,
which is the world of unbelievers in John’s writings!

Warnings about NOT being an overcomer
Revelation 21:7-8 ● “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his
God and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the
lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Please note: in Revelation 3:21, Jesus defines who an “overcomer” is!

Warnings in conditional “IF” verses
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 ● “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel
… by which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you
unless you believed in vain.”

Warnings about failing to remain in Jesus and produce fruit
John 15:1-10 ● “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener.
He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit,
… Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.”

Warnings about not loving and obeying Jesus
John 14:15-23 ● “If you love Me, keep My commandments …
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me
… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
He who does not love Me does not keep My words”
Who gets into heaven who does NOT love Jesus?

Warnings about falling away from the faith
Hebrews 10:36-39 ● “ ‘Now the just shall live by faith;
but IF anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.’
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition”
.

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wow, ten days old and i am the first like? wth?

justbyfaith said:

There are those who produce heresies (such as Universalism) and that is what the Bible is for...to defend the truth as it exists on every subject.

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you sound so confident and sure, jbf. this makes it harder to take you seriously wadr.
Universalists might as easily be raised as you, an Intrepid Roman, imo anyway.
Yet you seem to imply otherwise? Can you Quote "No Universalists will inherit the kingdom" bro?

Grailhunter said:

God is real and makes sense.

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narf, good one.

Grailhunter said:

The doctrine of universalism does not make any sense. How would that work? How could that work?

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every knee will bow, every tongue confess maybe?

Grailhunter said:

I once had a preacher tell me that reasoning and logic cannot be applied to the scriptures or God!

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awesome, can you recall his name? ty

Grailhunter said:

His atoning sacrifice was for sins of the whole world. That system.

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ty, could you rectify this with No Son of Man may die for another's sins so that i might get a clearer pov of your system? ty
but i do agree with your conclusion here, i think. nice.

Grailhunter said:

Now, that being done, as Christian, our sins are between us and Christ, as members of the family of God.

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great stuff for the most part imo, ty.
but i would suggest that our sins are between us and those we have sinned against? At least also?

Grailhunter said:

You and I are going to sin,

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Not necessarily. btw, the doctrine of the inevitablity of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.

Grailhunter said:

Oh I know, you are not saved by works or deeds.

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However, once you are saved you cannot help but do good works or deeds. Consider:

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Jas 4:17, Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

bbyrd009 said:

Yet you seem to imply otherwise? Can you Quote "No Universalists will inherit the kingdom" bro?

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I wouldn't make such a quote because I don't believe that such is the case. A Universalist who casts themselves upon Christ for salvation is saved.

I will say that the doctrine of Universalism is not conducive to such a thing. In their minds, there is nothing to be saved from.

But I do know someone who I believe is born again who later fell for the doctrine of Universalism; and I don't believe that they lost their salvation because of it. I do think that they will miss out on some rewards, because I don't think they have the motivation to deliver certain people from hell.

justbyfaith said:

Not necessarily. btw, the doctrine of the inevitablity of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.

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ty

justbyfaith said:

But I do know someone who I believe is born again who later fell for the doctrine of Universalism; and I don't believe that they lost their salvation because of it. I do think that they will miss out on some rewards, because I don't think they have the motivation to deliver certain people from hell.

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ah well we are functioning under diff defs of "saved" so i will demur there.
Hell, lol. Its like comedy, only its really a tragedy!

if you dig a pit for others, you end up in it yourself

bbyrd009 said:

if you dig a pit for others, you end up in it yourself

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Do you think that God is going to end up in that pit?

As a matter of fact, He already died and rose again.

justbyfaith said:

Do you think that God is going to end up in that pit?

As a matter of fact, He already died and rose again.

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i think you are deflecting in order to avoid the point of the verse, jbf, and i am convinced that hell as you understand it was invented/translated into our Scripture by Norse-Angle scribes who had no better euphemism for the spiritual concept. Which can now be berified online in about five minutes, by anyone. Gehenna is on erets, see. Is hell there too, in our common conception?

the whole world believes that the Christian hell is in some other location, yeh?

justbyfaith said:

There are those who produce heresies (such as Universalism) and that is what the Bible is for...to defend the truth as it exists on every subject.

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priceless, i tell ya.

Wadr how can you say this when you cannot even state one single truth from Scripture? One objective truth.

justbyfaith said:

As a matter of fact, He already died and rose again.

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so did we. supposedly; at baptism, right?
Do you think you are called here to preach to noobs, jbf?

justbyfaith said:

Not necessarily. btw, the doctrine of the inevitablity of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.



However, once you are saved you cannot help but do good works or deeds. Consider:

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Jas 4:17, Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.



I wouldn't make such a quote because I don't believe that such is the case. A Universalist who casts themselves upon Christ for salvation is saved.

I will say that the doctrine of Universalism is not conducive to such a thing. In their minds, there is nothing to be saved from.

But I do know someone who I believe is born again who later fell for the doctrine of Universalism; and I don't believe that they lost their salvation because of it. I do think that they will miss out on some rewards, because I don't think they have the motivation to deliver certain people from hell.

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↑
You and I are going to sin,

Not necessarily. btw, the doctrine of the inevitability of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.

lol Not sure where you are going with this, but I will play along. If you remain sinless long enough we can build you an altar. Do you want it up on the mountain and do you like stone or wood? Are you going to be god or just a lord?

Davy said:

It's good to note what Paul also said in Galatians 5, which goes with the Book of Romans where both set Christian doctrine.

In Galatians 5, Apostle Paul declares that IF... we walk by The Spirit, then we won't be doing anything against God's laws. He showed that only if we walk by The Spirit then are we dead to the law, and that means doing the good things which there is no law against.

But if we instead walk by our flesh, then we put ourselves back under the law, for even as he said in 1 Timothy 1, the law wasn't made for the righteous man, but for the sinner and ungodly.

It is especially that Galatians 5 chapter that shows us how to properly interpret those things in Romans. It means we have to be watchful against sin and repent when we do slip up and sin.

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Well, (Gal. 5) doesn't exactly say that. (Gal. 5:18) says, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

Stranger

Grailhunter said:

↑
You and I are going to sin,

Not necessarily. btw, the doctrine of the inevitability of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.

lol Not sure where you are going with this, but I will play along. If you remain sinless long enough we can build you an altar. Do you want it up on the mountain and do you like stone or wood? Are you going to be god or just a lord?

Click to expand...

Living in freedom and victory does not make a person God; it does mean that he has been set free by the power of the Lord, see John 8:31-36.

Zachary said:

In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.

Warnings about being shut out of the New Jerusalem
Revelation 22:14-15 ● “Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through
the gates of the city. But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually
immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”.

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How this is a warning against eternal security, I don't know. This is the New Heaven and New Earth. Are you suggesting that the believer, even if he goes to Heaven can still lose his salvation?

Stranger