Just For Catholics.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,467
1,537
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Correction: I forgot the word "each" .
In that collection of born again believers (God's people- Rom. 8:8-9), called the church, they each are the pillar and ground of His Truth.
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
>
When Jesus was physically here with us, He said that He was "the way, THE TRUTH and the Life".
Now, if Jesus (the Truth) be in you, by the Holy Spirit of God, you are now a member of His body, which is collectively called "the church" , aka "called out ones".
In that collection of born again believers (God's people- Rom. 8:8-9), called the church, they are the pillar and ground of His Truth.

BUT if you are not a "born again" member of His body, then Romans 8:8-9 also says that you are none of His.
From that scripture, what is the determining factor that authorizes one to be a member of His body, aka the "church"?
Ans. Whosoever HAS the Holy Spirit of Christ/God.
.
Now lets go back to those scriptures I previously quoted:
"Rev. 3[12] Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,"
.
1 John 5[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcomeththe world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
[5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
.

Every person, who believes in Jesus, and has recieved the free Gift of His Holy Spirit,
IS an overcomer!!
Therefore, every overcomer will be made by Jesus to be a pillar (of His Truth) in God's temple (His church).
Quite literally, they become "the pillar and ground of [the Lord's] truth.
Thank you.

If we are all the pillar and ground of truth what does that mean when my truth is different than your truth? Are YOU the true pillar or am I the true pillar?

If all of us are the church spoken of in 1 Timothy 3 then what or who is the church spoken of in Matthew 18:17?


Bible study Mary
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,467
1,537
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you.

If we are all the pillar and ground of truth what does that mean when my truth is different than your truth? Are YOU the true pillar or am I the true pillar?

If all of us are the church spoken of in 1 Timothy 3 then what or who is the church spoken of in Matthew 18:17?


Bible study Mary
Once again, where does the Living God desire to dwell?
Please select the correct answer:
1. In a house/temple/church building made of stone/wood.
2. In only one Christian religion.
3. In all people who "hear his Voice and open the door".
2 Peter 3:9; Revelations 3:20.

"...the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.", is scripturally proved to be all Christians who have placed their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus, as their only Savior.
That is the only truth one needs, for only Jesus is the Truth for Eternal Life.

Therefore, whosoever has the Holy Spirit of Christ/God dwelling within them, has been made to be a "pillar" in the temple of God.
Romans 8:8-9; Revelations 3:12; 1 Corinthians 3:16;
2 Corinthians 6:16
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,467
1,537
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If all of us are the church spoken of in 1 Timothy 3 then what or who is the church spoken of in Matthew 18:17?
Any and all who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus, as being "the truth" concerning Eternal Life, and have recieved the Gift of the Holy Spirit of Jesus/God, has recieved the Truth, because Jesus Himself is "the Truth".
Jesus within you, is the ONLY Truth that matters!
 

epostle

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2018
859
289
63
72
essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
>
When Jesus was physically here with us, He said that He was "the way, THE TRUTH and the Life".
Now, if Jesus (the Truth) be in you, by the Holy Spirit of God, you are now a member of His body, which is collectively called "the church" , aka "called out ones".
In that collection of born again believers (God's people- Rom. 8:8-9), called the church, they are the pillar and ground of His Truth.

BUT if you are not a "born again" member of His body, then Romans 8:8-9 also says that you are none of His.
From that scripture, what is the determining factor that authorizes one to be a member of His body, aka the "church"?
Ans. Whosoever HAS the Holy Spirit of Christ/God.
.
Now lets go back to those scriptures I previously quoted:
"Rev. 3[12] Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,"
.
1 John 5[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcomeththe world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
[5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
.

Every person, who believes in Jesus, and has recieved the free Gift of His Holy Spirit,
IS an overcomer!!
Therefore, every overcomer will be made by Jesus to be a pillar (of His Truth) in God's temple (His church).
Quite literally, they become "the pillar and ground of [the Lord's] truth.
Jesus defines "born again" in John 3:5. Accepting Jesus as personal savior and/or having an emotional moral renewal are all well and good, but it is not "born again". Why don't you come up with a definition that is agreeable to all Protestants?

You have an earthly house of God with no physical head. That's why you have no unity. Even Calvinists splinter into a multitude of denominations. You have already dismissed Peter as a game playing con artist. Severing the head from the body is a man made tradition.

But as they are a small and despised number, concealed in an immense crowd, like a few grains of wheat buried among a heap of chaff, to God alone must be left the knowledge of his Church, of which his secret election forms the foundation. Institutes IV, 1:1-2

Calvin seems to equate “elect” and “Church” here, which is a false equation, and tending towards the erroneous “invisible church” notion endemic among Protestants today. Elsewhere, he understands, however, that sinners are part of a visible, institutional Church as well. Apart from that, we agree that God alone knows who the elect are. Calvin (as I have noted in a past paper) elsewhere states that no one can know for sure who is in the elect (e.g., Inst. III, 21, 2; IV, 1, 3; IV, 1, 8; IV, 12, 9; Commentary on John 6:40) . Many Calvinists today, nevertheless, sure seem to think that they know (especially where orthodox Catholics are concerned!), and they (curiously) go against the founder of their brand of Christianity.

Nor is it enough to embrace the number of the elect in thought and intention merely. By the unity of the Church we must understand a unity into which we feel persuaded that we are truly ingrafted.

This unity is doctrinal and institutional as well as spiritual, and that was a great truth that the “Reformation” spurned, by espousing institutional schism and fostering (by false first premises on authority) the very sectarianism and denominationalism that both Luther and Calvin always derided as absurd and scandalous. They didn’t seem to realize the connection between first principles (sola Scriptura, private judgment, denial of an infallible Church and councils and popes, supremacy of the individual conscience even over against the Church in instances of disagreement) and how folks consistently acted on and applied these first principles.

For unless we are united with all the other members under Christ our head, no hope of the future inheritance awaits us.

A striking assertion of profound unity . . .

Hence the Church is called Catholic or Universal (August. Ep. 48), for two or three cannot be invented without dividing Christ; and this is impossible.

Denominations are thus ruled out. Why, then, are they so prevalent (to put it lightly) in Protestantism? Even Calvinists have many sub-denominations that would have been (presumably) condemned by Calvin based on this statement and many other like-minded ones.

All the elect of God are so joined together in Christ, that as they depend on one head, so they as it were compacted into one body, being knit together like its different members; made truly one by living together under the same Spirit of God in one faith, hope, and charity, called not only to the same inheritance of eternal life, but to participation in one God and Christ.

This unity is doctrinal and institutional as well as spiritual, and that was a great truth that the “Reformation” spurned, by espousing institutional schism and fostering (by false first premises on authority) the very sectarianism and denominationalism that both Luther and Calvin always derided as absurd and scandalous. They didn’t seem to realize the connection between first principles (sola Scriptura, private judgment, denial of an infallible Church and councils and popes, supremacy of the individual conscience even over against the Church in instances of disagreement) and how folks consistently acted on and applied these first principles.

For unless we are united with all the other members under Christ our head, no hope of the future inheritance awaits us.

A striking assertion of profound unity . . .

Hence the Church is called Catholic or Universal (August. Ep. 48), for two or three cannot be invented without dividing Christ; and this is impossible.

Denominations are thus ruled out. Why, then, are they so prevalent (to put it lightly) in Protestantism? Even Calvinists have many sub-denominations that would have been (presumably) condemned by Calvin based on this statement and many other like-minded ones.

All the elect of God are so joined together in Christ, that as they depend on one head, so they are as it were compacted into one body, being knit together like its different members; made truly one by living together under the same Spirit of God in one faith, hope, and charity, called not only to the same inheritance of eternal life, but to participation in one God and Christ.

Then one would think that Protestants could see the importance of this and get together and start eliminating competing (often contradictory) denominations. So far, they mainly seem to do that as they become theologically liberal and thus have more in common with other liberals who believe less and less as they do; hence the ease of uniting in liberal bliss.

For although the sad devastation which everywhere meets our view may proclaim that no Church remains, let us know that the death of Christ produces fruit, and that God wondrously preserves his Church, while placing it as it were in concealment. Thus it was said to Elijah, “Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel” (1 Kings 19:18).

Calvin ends with the “remnant ecclesiology” that suggests an invisible church. This is a direct frontal attack on the Catholic Church. That irrational and unbiblical and unhistorical hostility of Calvin’s will be dealt with over and over again in the course of this critique.
55 Critiques of John Calvin: Introduction & Master List
 
Last edited:

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,467
1,537
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus defines "born again" in John 3:5. Accepting Jesus as personal savior and/or having an emotional moral renewal are all well and good, but it is not "born again". Why don't you come up with a definition that is agreeable to all Protestants?
Revelation 3:20; Romans 8:8-9; John 1:11-12 explains the truth of being "born again" (born of God) extremly well.
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Once again, where does the Living God desire to dwell?
Please select the correct answer:
1. In a house/temple/church building made of stone/wood.
2. In only one Christian religion.
3. In all people who "hear his Voice and open the door".
2 Peter 3:9; Revelations 3:20.

"...the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.", is scripturally proved to be all Christians who have placed their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus, as their only Savior.
That is the only truth one needs, for only Jesus is the Truth for Eternal Life.

Therefore, whosoever has the Holy Spirit of Christ/God dwelling within them, has been made to be a "pillar" in the temple of God.
Romans 8:8-9; Revelations 3:12; 1 Corinthians 3:16;
2 Corinthians 6:16
To further this discussion let's say I agree with you theory. Since we agree on you theory (interpretation of Scripture) we have to read ALL of Scripture not just the cherry picked verses you cite. Sooooooo we have to ask ourselves:

If we are all the pillar and ground of truth what does that mean when my truth is different than someone elses truth? Are YOU the true pillar or am I the true pillar?

If all of us are the church spoken of in 1 Timothy 3 then what or who is the church spoken of in Matthew 18:17?

It seems we are having a difficult time defending your theory when we read ALL of Scripture.....:(

Mary
 

epostle

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2018
859
289
63
72
essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Revelation 3:20; Romans 8:8-9; John 1:11-12 explains the truth of being "born again" (born of God) extremly well.
Those are nice verses but they are the consequences of baptism. None of them describe "born again" according to John 3:5. You refuse to accept the plain words of Jesus in His definition by spiritualizing water AND the spirit.
 
Last edited:

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Any and all who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus, as being "the truth" concerning Eternal Life, and have recieved the Gift of the Holy Spirit of Jesus/God, has recieved the Truth, because Jesus Himself is "the Truth".
Jesus within you, is the ONLY Truth that matters!
Hi Earburner,

In Matthew 18 the two brothers had a disagreement. They were instructed to take that disagreement to 2-3 others to settle their difference. Using your theory that "any and all who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus" are the Church spoken of in Matthew 18:17 then the disagreement should have been settled when the 2-3 told the one brother he was wrong. That didn't happen; your theory is proven wrong in that one passage. According to Scripture they were to take their disagreement to the Church.

Soooooo your theory is not compatible with what Scripture says. :(

Using your theory are you ok if we go to some of my fellow Catholics who have "placed their faith in the Lord Jesus" to settle this difference? Or should we go to your friends who have ""placed their faith in the Lord Jesus"?

Curious Mary