The Seven Spirits of God

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Waiting on him

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Revelation 21:3-5 KJV
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. [4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. [5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


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101G

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2 Corinthians 12:1-4 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. [2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. [3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth[4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Considering John was instructed to go back and write...what is “I was in the Spirit” in John still had to be in a body to go back and write these things...
that's a good observation, but, Revelation 10:4 "And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."
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101G

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Agreed, where or whatever the heavens are He’s placed His tabernacle within them, and they declare His Glory.
his Spirit?, for, Revelation 10:1 "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:"
Revelation 10:2 "And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,"
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101G

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Revelation 21:3-5 KJV
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. [4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. [5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


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Revelation 1:12 "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;"Revelation 1:13 "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle."Revelation 1:14 "His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;"Revelation 1:15 "And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters."Revelation 1:16 "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."
Who is this? the Holy Ghost, the Lord JESUS.
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Waiting on him

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his Spirit?, for, Revelation 10:1 "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:"
Revelation 10:2 "And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,"
PICJAG.

Psalm 19:4 KJV
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,


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VictoryinJesus

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that's a good observation, but, Revelation 10:4 "And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."
PICJAG.

I’m sorry ....don’t see your point in “don’t write” and all the other “write” ...when you and I are reading what was (is)written and seen ...with a new heart hopefully. ...the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him(John)to show unto his servants which things must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.” (Revelation 1:1)

...can one read and understand “what the Spirit says” unless they also are in the Spirit? Galatians 1:10-12 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. [11] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:13
[13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Revelation 21:5-6 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. [6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Many others...
 
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101G

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, Revelation 10:1 "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:"
the Holy Ghost is the symbol here, and this is confirm by the apostle Peter, 1 Peter 1:12 "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."
see how the book of Revelation confirm the apostles.
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101G

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Psalm 19:4 KJV
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
the Gospel has goine throughout the earth. Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
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Waiting on him

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the Gospel has goine throughout the earth. Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
PICJAG.
Yes the heavens declaring His Glory, still are.
 
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4Jesus

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GINOLJC, first thanks for the reply.

Thanks also to you.

second,
who and when did any angel murder anyone?. physically speaking.

In John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.".

Who specifically did he murder? I don't have the information to state who specifically, but I believe Jesus when he says that the devil was a murderer from the beginning.

To guess theoretically, any war on earth is due to the devil, so all those deaths that occurred were because of him.

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. the stars in revelation 12 are humans, and the verses tghat proves this are found in the book of Matthews chapter 2 which clearly display all the actors.

I believe the "stars" in Revelation 12:4 "4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven", are the same stars found later in Revelation 12, in verse 7 "7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

The stars in Revelation 12:4 are the same stars/angels found in verse 12:7 which battle Michael and his angels (Michael is an angel of the supernatural type) - no human can match an angel in strength and might.

As for Matthew chapter 2, sometimes, a star is an angel, sometimes a star is a cosmological body, such as in the sky at night (the constellations). We know this because in scripture God also refers to them when talking of cosmological bodies, in Genesis 37:9 "And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me." and in Luke 21:25 "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;".

Those two verses describe stars as cosmological bodies, also with the sun and the moon.

In Matthew chapter 2, the star here is a cosmological body - it was a guide for the three humans to find the child, the Messiah (since there were no directions or maps to find him, a landmark in the sky was needed to find Him). In Matthew 2:2 "2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.", there are two things discussed here, his = Him the Messiah, and his "star", which means they are two different objects being discussed, one a child the Messiah, and a cosmological body.

This is further described in Matthew 2:9 "9When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was." The cosmological body, a star, stood over where the young child was. The star and the young child are two separate concepts here, not one in the same. It would read "the star that was the child" or something if the two concepts of a cosmological body and a child were one and the same.

Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12
the Child = the Messiah.
Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Israel, the church in the wilderness).
Dragon = a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power, (here king Herod).
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, not angelic).
Sun = the gospel, or word of God.
Moon = Mosaic Law.

I disagree with some of these findings. The Dragon, is the Devil, and not Herod. This is described later in Revelation 13:16 "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet." This is not speaking about Herod here. Also, in Revelation 12:9 "9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Herod is not the Devil/Satan, the dragon. Also, we find the link between the dragon being the Devil/Satan, in Revelation, 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,". Again, Herod is not the Devil and Satan.

Obviously I disagree that the Stars you mentioned are not humans, but angels of the supernaturaly type.

Rev chapter 12 Verse 4. "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”.
The main key here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in, “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here is symbolic, stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men.

I disagree, because in three more verses we clearly see there is an angelic war of the supernatural type, in Revelation 12, in verse 7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

These are not men that are fighting with Michael the angel nor the Devil/Satan/dragon the angel, of the supernatural types. Men stand no chancee to fight either.

I agree that stars mean either angels or cosmological beings, and a star is not automatically an angel, it could be a cosmological body. I haven't seen one verse proving that stars are linked to men.

those on earth that have heavenly information, or a message, that’s the symbolization used here of, of, of, heavenly stars. when reading about the birth of Jesus the Christ, revelation chapter 12 correspond to it to a tee. Matthews chapter 2 tells us how Herod the king, (the red dragon), tried to kill the baby Jesus.

There is not one verse that links Herod to the dragon. Please provide the verse that links Herod to a/the dragon. This link you're suggesting is nonexistent, even in Revelation 12.

it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this to me is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew here, is another word to "gather" together. so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together unto himself? it's the stars or messengers that is on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean to "gather"/draw together, king Herod inquired of the men of God, the (Heavenly messengers, or men of God), as to where the babe was born at. lets pick up the account in the scriptures. Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 third), and scribes, (2 third), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, for they had the written word of the prophets, and yes, they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". here it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part, or the final third of stars, the wise men. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, of the stars, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, all of the third part of the STARS. lets recap Matthews 2:4. 1/3 chief priests, 2/3 the scribes, and our 3/3 the wise men. there you have it.

I disagree with this finding in full. I don't think the keyword you're using here, "drew", is enough to link Herod to people gathering near him, nor being a/the dragon. I've shown why I think so in the above responses. No need to be redundant and retype that.

understand, just because a vision is shown in heaven do not nesseary mean it took place in heaven. so Matthews chapter 2 is the vision John saw which was the things that was "PAST". if one keep one hand on Revelation chapter 12, and the other hand on Matthews chapter 2, it the same event.

I agree, that it does or doesn't mean it took place in Heaven. However, in this case, I believe it does mean it took place in Heaven.

Revelation 1:1 is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;". This doesn't mean "past", it means it is yet unfulfilled, therefore is not "past" yet.

Thanks again for the conversation.
 

4Jesus

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just because a vision is shown in heaven do not nesseary mean it took place in heaven.

That all depends on where we believe heaven is

Psalm 19:1-5 KJV
[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. [2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. [4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

We would make the statement that all of this took place in the heart of John

Usually, as I understand it, when scripture discusses "Heaven", single form, it means "where God's throne is". God's throne is only in one place, "The" Heaven. The Earth is God's footstool, and the "first Heaven" (depending on if you're a human on Earth or from God's perspective - probably where His throne is is the First Heaven) would be right above that, but under the "other two Heavens".
 
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4Jesus

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don't forget, since sin is defeted, he can dwell in us and everywhere. Psalms 139:7 "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?"
Psalms 139:8 "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."
PICJAG.

In Isaiah 66:1 "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?" the single form of Heaven is where God's throne is, and the Earth is his footstool. The area right above the Earth, the sky/atmosphere as we know it, is right above his footstool, but below his throne. This is furthered in Matthew 5:34-35 "34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King."
 

oldhermit

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"And from the seven spirits who are before His throne." There is no justification for the capitalization of "spirits". This is not a description of the nature of God.

a. This statement cannot be understood apart from 4:5 which reads "And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;" The seven spirits which are the seven lamps of fire that burn before to throne are the seven churches to whom this revelation is sent (verse 20), "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

b. Their position is "before" the throne.

* The significance of "before the throne" could be for the purpose of judgment, particularly since we will see the judgment of the fidelity of these seven churches weighed in the balances in chapters two and three.

* Since this is found in the body of the salutation, "before the throne" could also simply represent the position that the church holds as those who belong to God hence the expression "which are the seven spirits of God;" ('Which are' - ἃ - nominative neuter plural).
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all.
In John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.".
that's Spiritual murder, I believe we asked for an example of physical murder.
Who specifically did he murder? I don't have the information to state who specifically, but I believe Jesus when he says that the devil was a murderer from the beginning.
that's what we was peaking of, see above. it's not there.
war? that's the declaration to kill, not murder, war is authorized.
As for Matthew chapter 2, sometimes, a star is an angel, sometimes a star is a cosmological body, such as in the sky at night (the constellations). We know this because in scripture
only on context of the scriptures.
In Matthew 2:2 "2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.", there are two things discussed here, his = Him the Messiah, and his "star", which means they are two different objects being discussed, one a child the Messiah, and a cosmological body.
Matthew 2:9 "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was." do you actually believe that this "star" was a cosmological body?
I disagree with some of these findings. The Dragon, is the Devil, and not Herod.
sure, that's your oponion.
I disagree, because in three more verses we clearly see there is an angelic war of the supernatural type, in Revelation 12, in verse 7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"
again, you are entitle to your oponion. but I'm going to make a bold statement. not one holy angel was kicked out of the THIRD HEAVEN, notice my bold print. now an angel was fallen to the Ground from the 1st heaven (smile).
There is not one verse that links Herod to the dragon. Please provide the verse that links Herod to a/the dragon. This link you're suggesting is nonexistent, even in Revelation 12.
Herod "Power" was of Rome .... the Beast.
I disagree with this finding in full. I don't think the keyword you're using here, "drew", is enough to link Herod to people gathering near him, nor being a/the dragon. I've shown why I think so in the above responses. No need to be redundant and retype that.
this is why Revelation is symbolic. as he said to the 7 churches "those who have ears to hear".
Revelation 1:1 is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;". This doesn't mean "past", it means it is yet unfulfilled, therefore is not "past" yet.

Thanks again for the conversation.
MUST shortly? if we use the apostle assessment, 2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." based on that the Lord Jesus haven't been gone away for only a "couple of DAYS". ;)
and thank you for the civil conversation.
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ScottA

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Good morning forum! Well I am still studying in Revelation.....it is not a book you can just read through and be done so it is taking me a great deal of time to get even half way....so here is another NEW revelation the Holy Spirit has opened my eyes to see and I put out here for comment....
Revelation 4:5
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Seven spirits of God? well....this made me want to study and research what the seven Spirits of God are and this is what I have found so far.
Isaiah 11:1-3
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

Revelation 3:1
“To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of Him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.”

Revelation 5:6
“Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it has been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He has seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.”

As I continued to study and research I found almost all teachers on the subject say that the seven Spirits of God are the 7 attributes of the Holy Spirit.....one even states that is is the perfect completeness of the Holy Spirit.....and Revelation 5:6 seems to back this up with the "sent out into all the earth"....and He has 7 horns and 7 eyes....so I had to look up this....
Seven=Fullness
Seven Horns=Fullness of Power
Seven Eyes=Fullness of Insight

View attachment 7319

As I am continuing to learn this really struck me so profoundly that I prayed and asked God to let me experience the fullness of the Holy Spirit in my life....the 7 anointings of God.....

This is a comment made by an individual:
God is complex and so is the work of the holy spirit as well.. 7 is the number of spiritual perfection.. to be perfect we should experience all of God 7 anointings now too..

The Holy Spirit is a person who combines the 7 Spirits of God, EXPRESSIONS OF GOD’S CHARACTER, PERSONALITY OR NATURE
7 Spiritual anointings, 7 Spirits of God

Also here is the link to the source I referenced as well:
Do You Know the 7 Spirits of God? - by James W. Goll

I want to come to that place of completeness and experience the fullness of God through Jesus and the Holy Spirit...

What's your take on this?
They are the seven churches:

Revelation 1:20
"The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches."

Revelation 4:5
"And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."
 

101G

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They are the seven churches:

Revelation 1:20
"The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches."

Revelation 4:5
"And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."
GINOLJC, this is correct, for the Lord Jesus is the seven Spirit, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." the building of the Spiritual Temple is in effect, the "RESTORATION" of man, and these seven Spirts are the "LORD'S" and that "LORD" with all cap, who the Lord Jesus, for he is, omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Zechariah 4:10 "For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth."
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." the first resurrection is in full swing, cap off upon his return, with the change of our bodies, the final "change". "Restoration from the inside out, First our spirits, Ephesians 4:23 & 24 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;" 24 "And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." next at his coming, bodily restoration, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." 15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." 16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" ... 1 Corinthians 15:51 & 52 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed," 52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." full regeneration of spirit and body.
PICJAG.
 
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4Jesus

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GINOLJC, to all.

that's Spiritual murder, I believe we asked for an example of physical murder.

There is no "Spiritual murder" that is undifferent than "physical murder". Additionally, Jesus is speaking of the physical, in that He is also calling the devil a liar, who speaks (uses his mouth, a physcial part of the body) to lie, as well as "lusts of your father ye will do", which are actions, and actions are physical.

I'll go with Jesus meaning instead of yours, but thanks anyway.

that's what we was peaking of, see above. it's not there.
war? that's the declaration to kill, not murder, war is authorized.

Yes, it is, to me, and many others. Murder is evil, which is why commanded us not to murder in the OT. The Devil opposes God, and one way is to break his commands, in this case, is murder, as Jesus stated he is a murderer from the beginning.

Yes, war. Only God can authorize war - the devil is a rebel, thus is not authorized. The devil can't just make up his own authority to go and kill against God's commands and it's considered "authority". Therefore, killing without authority, authority from God to be specific, is murder.

only on context of the scriptures.

Yes, "only" in context of the scriptures. I'm not sure where you're pulling your information from, but I've used multiple scriptural verses, some within different books that cross-reference each other.

Where are you pulling your information from? From your own interpretation that most scripture is a "symbol"?

Matthew 2:9 "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was." do you actually believe that this "star" was a cosmological body?

Yes, I do. As I just provided proof of two objects being discussed in that verse, yes, I do believe it was a cosmological body that pointed the way to the newly born child Messiah. If using your logic, the verse wouldn't have separated the two concepts of "star" and "young child"; it would have been written as one-in-the-same, thus no two objects discussed.


sure, that's your oponion.

I gave scriptural proof of who scripture considers to be the dragon, as pointed out a couple of times within scripture. Where is your scriptural proof that you are basing your opinion off of?

Using your logic, and not using scripture as you are, I can say that the dragon is really Pontious Pilate, and not Herod, just because I think so. Pilate is never referred to as a/the dragon in scripture either, and the Messiah did "gather" to Pilate also, so using your logic, how can you say Pilate is the dragon that "drew" the Messiah near to him to put him to death (and succeed where Herod failed)?

again, you are entitle to your oponion. but I'm going to make a bold statement. not one holy angel was kicked out of the THIRD HEAVEN, notice my bold print. now an angel was fallen to the Ground from the 1st heaven (smile).

I don't know what you're trying to say here. Are you saying "the" Heaven is the first or third Heaven? Are you saying that the angel lucifer/satan was not cast out of Heaven by God?

Herod "Power" was of Rome .... the Beast.

"the Beast"? Revelation makes clear that "the beast" and "the dragon" are two different entities.

Furthermore, Herod was not the "power" of Rome, Caesar was. So going by your logic, it would have been Caesar who was the "dragon", and not the Jewish king governed under Rome.

this is why Revelation is symbolic. as he said to the 7 churches "those who have ears to hear".

Na, churches are the humans, and humans have ears to hear, so you're point here is irrelevant to the discussion.

MUST shortly? if we use the apostle assessment, 2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." based on that the Lord Jesus haven't been gone away for only a "couple of DAYS". ;)

Yes, "must shortly come to pass". So are you arguing that you don't agree scripture states this? I'm not sure what you're even arguing anymore - that scripture does not say this or that it does but doesn't mean what it says?

I have no idea what you're even trying to argue with your deflection that 1 day is 1000 years, which I don't deny that that timeframe is to Jesus. "must shortly come to pass", from Jesus point of view, would be 2 days later (or almost 2000 years later to us). Meaning hasn't occurred yet.

and thank you for the civil conversation.
PICJAG.

I think at this point, it's safe to assume we're not going to agree based upon our interpretations of scripture being literal and symolic of literal events versus scripture being purely symbolic.

Thanks also for the conversation. It was interesting.
 
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ScottA

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GINOLJC, this is correct, for the Lord Jesus is the seven Spirit, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." the building of the Spiritual Temple is in effect, the "RESTORATION" of man, and these seven Spirts are the "LORD'S" and that "LORD" with all cap, who the Lord Jesus, for he is, omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Zechariah 4:10 "For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth."
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." the first resurrection is in full swing, cap off upon his return, with the change of our bodies, the final "change". "Restoration from the inside out, First our spirits, Ephesians 4:23 & 24 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;" 24 "And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." next at his coming, bodily restoration, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." 15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." 16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" ... 1 Corinthians 15:51 & 52 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed," 52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." full regeneration of spirit and body.
PICJAG.
Very good...but you should not have added "bodily restoration" and "full regeneration of spirit and body."

That is, unless you do not actually men [flesh] body. Then it is perfect. For the flesh returns to the dust and is destroyed with fervent heat and with fire.