10 different NT warning-types against eternal security

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Stranger

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In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.


Warnings about being blotted out of the Book of Life
Revelation 3:5 ● “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life”

Please note: the “overcomer” of 1 John 5:4-5 only overcomes “the world”,
which is the world of unbelievers in John’s writings!


.

Please note that (1 John 5:1) says, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:...." Then read (1 John 5:4). "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

That faith that resulted in the believer's new-birth is the same faith that overcomes the world. (1 John 5:5) "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God."

And as (Rev. 3:5) says, God "will not blot out his name from the Book of Life."

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.


Warnings about NOT being an overcomer
Revelation 21:7-8 ● “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his
God and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the
lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Please note: in Revelation 3:21, Jesus defines who an “overcomer” is!

.

See post #(262)

Please note that (Rev. 3:21) does not define who an overcomer is. (1 John 5:1-5) does.

Stranger
 
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charity

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You may disagree with the doctrines of the Calvinists and Reformers, but that's a lot of the basis of where you're coming from. The way you quote Scripture in such a broad coverage absolutist sense is why I say that. Those movements started in Germany in the 15th century, and continued to much of Europe and then to the Americas through the New England Puritan movement.

For example, the Jeremiah 31 Scripture you quote is 'conditional', even for Israel. It depends on those believing on Christ Jesus when He appears. The part of Israel God blinded per Romans 11 is about the orthodox Jews. God did not blind all of Israel. He preserved a remnant of the seed of Israel like Paul also said in Romans 11. And those are the ones Paul said are the election according to grace. That is not MY summation, nor MY opinion. It is written Scripture. All must bow to Jesus Christ to be saved regardless of their birth, and regardless of your interpretation of Jer.31:33-34 like it's automatically applied to all Israel when it's still dependent upon believe on Jesus Christ.
Hello @dave,

With respect, I did not single out any doctrinal category as one that I disagree with.
I agree that believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is vital, I did not say otherwise.
I agree also that there was a believing remnant saved out from among Israel, during the Lord's ministry and that of the twelve, but the nation itself went away into the blindness of unbelief. As far as Jeremiah 31:33-34 is concerned, I have not interpreted it, I simply believe what it says.
---------------------​

* (further note @ 2.0am) (re. #243) I fear I have not made myself clear to you, Dave. and have led you to misunderstand me, and to place a wrong interpretation upon my words regarding our standing in Christ. I will try to explain, if God wills.

* Ephesians reveals the truth concerning a 'Calling', into which these Ephesians 'Saints', who were not only saved by God's grace, but described as 'faithful' too; were being called into. It is this calling that they could fail to enter into, and not salvation. This calling is being described in Ephesians, Colossians and Philippians. (It would seem, also, by the words of Paul later to Timothy in 2 Timothy 1:15, that they failed to enter into it). This calling is concerning the church which is His (Christ's) Body, of which He is the Head: which was the subject of the revelation received by Paul, while in prison in Rome, and made known in these later epistles written from there.

* So it is not salvation which is at issue in Ephesians, but a Calling: and it is that Calling which is the subject of election, and not salvation. I hope that clarifies my position for you, (even if you do not agree with it). They would not lose their salvation by failing to enter into this further truth: their standing before God remains sure; but they would fail to enter into this wondrous Calling and Election with it's Heavenly inheritance, and blessing, which was established in Christ, before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4).

Praise God!
Praise His Holy Name!

I thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Stranger

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In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.


Warnings in conditional “IF” verses
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 ● “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel
… by which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you
unless you believed in vain.”


.

When you see the term 'saved' you must distinguish which aspect of salvation is being addressed. Even after the born-again believer is saved, or justified, or saved from the penalty of sin, he has a walk of salvation that he endures here and now. That is the salvation spoken of here.

Some of the Corinthians had rejected the resurrection. (1 Cor. 15:12) The resurrection is all important in the walk of salvation now. (Rom. 1:4) To deny this was to deny the power of God in the believers life to walk in that salvation. So Paul is emphasizing to the Corinthians that you cannot deny the resurrection and walk in that salvation, for that is the power from which it comes.

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.


Warnings about failing to remain in Jesus and produce fruit
John 15:1-10 ● “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener.
He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit,
… Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.”


.

Abiding is not part of one being born-again. You are born-again by faith in Christ. The abiding affects your walk of salvation now. Because you are born-again, then you are clean. (John 15:3) That is settled. As a believer as long as you abide in Christ, your enjoy the benefits of that abiding. If you cease to abide, then it won't be long till the Lord will remove you from those benefits. Loss of salvation is not one of them, for you are already clean.

Just because the term 'fire' is used in (John 15:6) does not imply it is the fire of hell. It is a fire of judgement, yes. Just like (1 Cor. 3:13) is for the believer.

Stranger
 
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Davy

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Well, (Gal. 5) doesn't exactly say that. (Gal. 5:18) says, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

Stranger

Walk by The Spirit, led by The Spirit, same idea. Confusing the two as if they are different meanings is straining at a gnat.


Gal 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh.
KJV
 

Davy

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Hello @dave,

With respect, I did not single out any doctrinal category as one that I disagree with.
I agree that believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is vital, I did not say otherwise.
I agree also that there was a believing remnant saved out from among Israel, during the Lord's ministry and that of the twelve, but the nation itself went away into the blindness of unbelief. As far as Jeremiah 31:33-34 is concerned, I have not interpreted it, I simply believe what it says.
---------------------​

* (further note @ 2.0am) (re. #243) I fear I have not made myself clear to you, Dave. and have led you to misunderstand me, and to place a wrong interpretation upon my words regarding our standing in Christ. I will try to explain, if God wills.

* Ephesians reveals the truth concerning a 'Calling', into which these Ephesians 'Saints', who were not only saved by God's grace, but described as 'faithful' too; were being called into. It is this calling that they could fail to enter into, and not salvation. This calling is being described in Ephesians, Colossians and Philippians. (It would seem, also, by the words of Paul later to Timothy in 2 Timothy 1:15, that they failed to enter into it). This calling is concerning the church which is His (Christ's) Body, of which He is the Head: which was the subject of the revelation received by Paul, while in prison in Rome, and made known in these later epistles written from there.

* So it is not salvation which is at issue in Ephesians, but a Calling: and it is that Calling which is the subject of election, and not salvation. I hope that clarifies my position for you, (even if you do not agree with it). They would not lose their salvation by failing to enter into this further truth: their standing before God remains sure; but they would fail to enter into this wondrous Calling and Election with it's Heavenly inheritance, and blessing, which was established in Christ, before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4).

Praise God!
Praise His Holy Name!

I thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The subject of this thread are the warnings to the Church that the OP presented from God's Word. It's about the topic that we are to be on watch against sin while waiting for our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming.

Ephesians is both about the calling to believe on Jesus Christ, and Paul's admonitions to those who believe to be watchful against doing those things those at Ephesus once did as unbelievers. Paul warns to not fall back into those sins. And those things Paul shows emphatically that they ARE A SALVATION ISSUE (see the verses in red).

Eph 4:1
4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
KJV

Eph 4:17-19
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
KJV

Eph 4:21-24
21 If so be that ye have heard Him, and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
KJV

Eph 4:27-28
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
KJV

Eph 5:3-7
3
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
KJV

Eph 5:15
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
KJV

Eph 5:21
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
KJV



As can be seen by those Scriptures in Ephesians, we cannot just create doctrines of men from a certain section of verses in it, and make up false ideas that we can never fall away from Jesus back into sin.

If we could never be in danger of falling back to doing those things like Paul said about the old man to those at Ephesus, then he would have had no need... to give those warning Scriptures above that are in Ephesians. Thus we have to take the whole Book of Ephesians into account, and not just parts of it.

 
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Davy

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Can BACs get away with a sinning lifestyle
whilst non-believers cannot get away with it?

How ludicrous!

.

That is especially... the point!

Which is why in Matthew 7:18-27 Jesus showed even those who did many wonderful works in His name, but still did iniquity, will be cast out.
 

charity

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The subject of this thread are the warnings to the Church that the OP presented from God's Word. It's about the topic that we are to be on watch against sin while waiting for our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming.

Ephesians is both about the calling to believe on Jesus Christ, and Paul's admonitions to those who believe to be watchful against doing those things those at Ephesus once did as unbelievers. Paul warns to not fall back into those sins. And those things Paul shows emphatically that they ARE A SALVATION ISSUE (see the verses in red).

Eph 4:1
4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
KJV

Eph 4:17-19
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
KJV

Eph 4:21-24
21 If so be that ye have heard Him, and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
KJV

Eph 4:27-28
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
KJV

Eph 5:3-7
3
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
KJV

Eph 5:15
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
KJV

Eph 5:21
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
KJV



As can be seen by those Scriptures in Ephesians, we cannot just create doctrines of men from a certain section of verses in it, and make up false ideas that we can never fall away from Jesus back into sin.

If we could never be in danger of falling back to doing those things like Paul said about the old man to those at Ephesus, then he would have had no need... to give those warning Scriptures above that are in Ephesians. Thus we have to take the whole Book of Ephesians into account, and not just parts of it.
Hello @dave

No one to my knowledge has said, in this thread, that we are not capable of sinning: and as you have pointed out there are warnings against doing so; however there is no suggestion that salvation can be lost.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Stranger

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Walk by The Spirit, led by The Spirit, same idea. Confusing the two as if they are different meanings is straining at a gnat.


Gal 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh.
KJV

No. Walk by the Spirit, and Led by the Spirit is not the point in question.

The point in question is walking in the Spirit and no longer under the law. The law no where comes into play here.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Stranger

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In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.


Warnings about not loving and obeying Jesus
John 14:15-23 ● “If you love Me, keep My commandments …
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me
… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
He who does not love Me does not keep My words”

Who gets into heaven who does NOT love Jesus?

.

Nothing here about a loss of eternal life.

If the believer loves Christ, he will keep His commandments and enjoy fellowship with Him and the Father. All of which will be possible by the coming Holy Spirit.

Perhaps you should ask, who loves Jesus more? Thus, on your measuring scale of 'love for Jesus', where on that scale do you fall too far down and are lost because you didn't have enough love?

(Luke 18:9-14) and (Luke 7:36-50) comes to mind.

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.


Warnings about falling away from the faith
Hebrews 10:36-39 ● “ ‘Now the just shall live by faith;
but IF anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.’
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition”
.

Do you even read these verses you post or did you just copy them from somewhere?

(Heb. 10:39) is very clear. "we are not of those who draw back to perdition" Yes, those Hebrew Christians that were turning back to the Law, instead of faith, were displeasing to God. But not to the extent of losing their salvation.

Stranger
 

Davy

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Hello
... however there is no suggestion that salvation can be lost.

The following Scripture, especially verse 5, is Paul emphatically showing us that one CAN... loose their Salvation by following those things. If you have a problem with what he said here, then take it up with our Lord Jesus so you can better understand, and won't be listening to men's doctrines instead.

Eph 5:3-7
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
KJV
 

Davy

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No. Walk by the Spirit, and Led by the Spirit is not the point in question.

The point in question is walking in the Spirit and no longer under the law. The law no where comes into play here.

Good-Ole-Rebel

You're trying to add to the Scripture. The Scripture is simple. Walk according to our promised Guide, The Holy Spirit Comforter Who is to show us all things. The Holy Spirit is sent to believers on Christ Jesus to show us how to do what is not against God's laws, because like Apostle John said, sin is the transgression of the law. And your saying this has nothing to do with God's law is to totally miss Apostle Paul's Message.

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance:
against such there is no law.
KJV

Too many country Churches have wrongly taught that our Lord Jesus nailed all of God's laws to His cross when He most definitely did not. And because of that wrong belief they also teach the lie that God's law is dead. That idea is from the devil and his false ministers of righteousness. It is designed to create the very problem those on the OSAS doctrine of men are in, doing iniquity and not repenting of it while thinking they are already saved.
 

charity

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The following Scripture, especially verse 5, is Paul emphatically showing us that one CAN... loose their Salvation by following those things. If you have a problem with what he said here, then take it up with our Lord Jesus so you can better understand, and won't be listening to men's doctrines instead.

Eph 5:3-7
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
KJV

'Be ye therefore followers of God,
.. as dear children;

.... And walk in love,
...... as Christ also hath loved us,
........ and hath given Himself for us
.......... an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,
.. let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
.... Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient:
...... but rather giving of thanks.
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person,
.. nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
.... hath any
inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
...... Let no man deceive you with vain words:
........ for because of these things cometh
.......... the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
............ Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
For ye were sometimes darkness,
.. but now are ye light in the Lord:
.... walk as children of light: ... '

(Ephesians 5:1-8)

Hello @Davy,

You are correct to point out these very important warnings, but again, it is the 'inheritance' which is at stake and not 'life' (i.e., salvation).

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Stranger

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You're trying to add to the Scripture. The Scripture is simple. Walk according to our promised Guide, The Holy Spirit Comforter Who is to show us all things. The Holy Spirit is sent to believers on Christ Jesus to show us how to do what is not against God's laws, because like Apostle John said, sin is the transgression of the law. And your saying this has nothing to do with God's law is to totally miss Apostle Paul's Message.

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance:
against such there is no law.
KJV

Too many country Churches have wrongly taught that our Lord Jesus nailed all of God's laws to His cross when He most definitely did not. And because of that wrong belief they also teach the lie that God's law is dead. That idea is from the devil and his false ministers of righteousness. It is designed to create the very problem those on the OSAS doctrine of men are in, doing iniquity and not repenting of it while thinking they are already saved.

No, Paul added it. (2 Cor. 3:11) "For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

For context: (2 Cor. 3:9) "For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory."

Also: (2 Cor. 3:7-8) for context.

Stranger
 

Davy

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'Be ye therefore followers of God,
.. as dear children;

.... And walk in love,
...... as Christ also hath loved us,
........ and hath given Himself for us
.......... an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,
.. let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
.... Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient:
...... but rather giving of thanks.
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person,
.. nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
.... hath any
inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
...... Let no man deceive you with vain words:
........ for because of these things cometh
.......... the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
............ Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
For ye were sometimes darkness,
.. but now are ye light in the Lord:
.... walk as children of light: ... '

(Ephesians 5:1-8)

Hello @Davy,

You are correct to point out these very important warnings, but again, it is the 'inheritance' which is at stake and not 'life' (i.e., salvation).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV


If you're not in the future "kingdom of God", then where else do you think you'd be??

Your Universalist salvation idea doesn't work. The wicked will only be saved IF they repent and believe on Jesus, and follow Him. Otherwise they will go into the future "lake of fire".
 

Davy

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No, Paul added it. (2 Cor. 3:11) "For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

For context: (2 Cor. 3:9) "For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory."

Also: (2 Cor. 3:7-8) for context.

Stranger

And yet I say again per Apostle Paul... it was the old covenant that was done away with, NOT all of God's laws!

1 Tim 1:8-11
8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


If you don't understand those 1 Tim.1:8-9 verses especially, then you'll never understand what was actually done away by our Lord Jesus on His cross.

By believing the foolish doctrines of men that wrongly teach all of God's laws are now 'dead' that is to say man can do ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DO and it doesn't matter! That is CRIMINAL thinking. That is exactly what SATAN'S SERVANTS WANT! They would love all notion of the idea of law to just go away and be no more! That way the Devil and his servants can rule this world completely!!! No wonder there's so many Christian brethren that have fallen away and are in jails and prisons today!!!

So Sorry! GOD's LAW is still... manifest here on earth today! from The Father and His Son! Just NOT the old covenant portions of His laws which Jesus nailed to His cross.

You Revolutionaries who hate God's laws, take heed!!!