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Enoch111

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There is a good, brief article on the background of the city of Corinth by J R McRay in Dictionary of New Testament Background (IVP 2000, pp 227-231).
A lot of evangelicals want to teach that 1 Cor 11:1-16 is only applicable to the Corinthian church. But a proper exegesis of the passage itself (which no reference to anything else other than Scripture) confirms that this teaching on women's head covering is from the Holy Spirit, not a man-made idea.
 

justbyfaith

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i dont know how to break this to you but the woman are allowed to ask questions .

Married women are to ask questions of their husbands at home. Single women have more liberty to ask a pastor their questions since they have no husband. But married women who ask the pastor their questions instead of their husbands are bucking against the authority of their husband.

you sir are a legalist .

It has been said that those who preach the Lord's holy standard are most often accused of being legalists.

I am very much about the grace of God.

Grace in scripture is never to be used as a license to sin.

If you think that dishonouring the Lord by the way you have impropriety in worship by a man wearing his hair long; or dishonouring the man by impropriety in worship by a woman wearing her hair short without an extra covering, is not a sin; then you have another think coming.

so what if you told her wrong?

What if I have it right and the pastor would have told her wrong?

I am commanded to love my wife as Christ loves the church...my pastor has no such commandment concerning my wife.

Therefore the husband is the proper authority to be asked by any woman who has a husband.

we are not under law but grace

For this reason, sin shall not have dominion over us (Romans 6:14).

And I would say that dishonouring the Lord or your husband is a sin.
 

Ezra

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It has been said that those who preach the Lord's holy standard are most often accused of being legalists.
see your not preaching the Lord's holy standard
And I would say that dishonouring the Lord or your husband is a sin.
i dont have a husband
Therefore the husband is the proper authority to be asked by any woman who has a husband.
pssst my wife has the right to ask whom she pleases in fact i had rather her gte it for her self . there are certain scriptures we see different
 
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Butterfly

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It is a shame for women to speak in church; and this is a timeless principle not based on culture.

One time my wife asked the pastor a question and I answered the question right in front of the pastor (though the answer was not an answer that I believe the pastor would have given). She is supposed to ask her own husband at home; he is the head of the household and is supposed to love his wife as Christ loves the church: and therefore he is perfectly capable of giving the answer to his woman in any situation where she might have a question.

I have also heard of situations where a woman has asked her unbelieving husband a Bible question and the husband got saved looking for the answer. There are all kinds of reasons why it is a to follow the principles identified in the scriptures in question.
I was thinking about your reply, your words and account of what happened when your wife exercised her right to her own voice, that isn't submission, it's control. ( wonder if that made you angry when she spoke out of turn ). I equally wonder if she had to seek your forgiveness.
Your words ' his women ' kind of say so much.......
Actually I was curious as to how far this goes, we use to have coffee and tea served in the Church after the service - people would mingle and catch up ect. So would your wife not be allowed to talk at all at anything ' social ' within the church building - So was it just the men who would be allowed to communicate with one another ?
Also if your wife bumped into the pastor while not in church, would she be free to talk to him and ask him a question if you were not with her ?
Rita
 

farouk

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I was thinking about your reply, your words and account of what happened when your wife exercised her right to her own voice, that isn't submission, it's control. ( wonder if that made you angry when she spoke out of turn ). I equally wonder if she had to seek your forgiveness.
Your words ' his women ' kind of say so much.......
Actually I was curious as to how far this goes, we use to have coffee and tea served in the Church after the service - people would mingle and catch up ect. So would your wife not be allowed to talk at all at anything ' social ' within the church building - So was it just the men who would be allowed to communicate with one another ?
Also if your wife bumped into the pastor while not in church, would she be free to talk to him and ask him a question if you were not with her ?
Rita
Same questions with things like shoes, ear piercing, etc., right?
 

farouk

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And red lipstick !
Think I already know the answers Farouk x
Red lipstick? it shouldn't be problematic, either, should it?

Historically, a century ago lipstick was connected with women's suffrage and popularized by Elizabeth Arden, a supporter of women's suffrage.
 
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justbyfaith

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I do believe that if you are not faithful in that which is least, you will not be faithful in that which is greater.

It does not mean that you don't have salvation; just that you will only be saved so as by fire.

The Lord will say to you, "You made it..."
 

justbyfaith

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Applies to men too.
That is what I am saying...

Both men and women need to be faithful in this doctrine which seems to be least important (in 1 Corinthians 11:1-16).

I certainly do not desire to dishonour the Lord; which I would be doing if I wore a hat or my hair long, since He has called me to also pray without ceasing.

I do believe that the commandments in the scriptures at hand are in fact less binding on women than they are on men; since if women are disobedient in this, they are only dishonouring their husbands and/or the established order that God has instituted of man having the authority over the woman. But if a man is disobedient to these scriptures, he is dishonouring the Lord.
 

Pearl

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That is what I am saying...

Both men and women need to be faithful in this doctrine which seems to be least important (in 1 Corinthians 11:1-16).

I certainly do not desire to dishonour the Lord; which I would be doing if I wore a hat or my hair long, since He has called me to also pray without ceasing.

I do believe that the commandments in the scriptures at hand are in fact less binding on women than they are on men; since if women are disobedient in this, they are only dishonouring their husbands and/or the established order that God has instituted of man having the authority over the woman. But if a man is disobedient to these scriptures, he is dishonouring the Lord.
I know you are sincere in what you believe jbf, and that you are trying to pass on that belief to the rest of us out of concern for our spiritual wellbeing. But have you looked at it from the Jewish perspective of modern day Messianic Jews?

A few years ago I read a book called, 'Woman, the full story' by Michelle Guinness, a Jew turned Christian and married to an Anglican vicar. Her book is an eye opener into the roles of Godly women throughout the bible and in today's Christian Church written from a Jewish perspective and using the original text as study material. Her findings couldn't be more opposite of your own and I prefer to believe her version than yours. And I say that without meaning any offence. Blessings and peace in Jesus.
 

justbyfaith

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I know you are sincere in what you believe jbf, and that you are trying to pass on that belief to the rest of us out of concern for our spiritual wellbeing. But have you looked at it from the Jewish perspective of modern day Messianic Jews?

A few years ago I read a book called, 'Woman, the full story' by Michelle Guinness, a Jew turned Christian and married to an Anglican vicar. Her book is an eye opener into the roles of Godly women throughout the bible and in today's Christian Church written from a Jewish perspective and using the original text as study material. Her findings couldn't be more opposite of your own and I prefer to believe her version than yours. And I say that without meaning any offence. Blessings and peace in Jesus.
If it takes an entire book to convince you of a pov, then that pov is very likely not valid.

I would suggest meditating on the passage at hand (1 Corinthians 11:1-16); attempting to see it apart from the lens that was given you through the reading of that book. Take the holy scripture at face value.
 

Pearl

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If it takes an entire book to convince you of a pov, then that pov is very likely not valid.

I would suggest meditating on the passage at hand (1 Corinthians 11:1-16); attempting to see it apart from the lens that was given you through the reading of that book. Take the holy scripture at face value.
It wasn't the book that convinced me; I was already convinced when I read the book and the book supported my views. My views are indeed valid. And I do not need your approval. As I said before I know you are sincere in your beliefs. But so am I.
 
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justbyfaith

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It wasn't the book that convinced me; I was already convinced when I read the book and the book supported my views. My views are indeed valid. And I do not need your approval. As I said before I know you are sincere in your beliefs. But so am I.
I believe that if your views are contrary to what I have taught about the scripture at hand, that they are unbiblical.

I would suggest taking a second look at the scriptures at hand (1 Corinthians 11:1-16) and be a Berean about what I have taught concerning them. See if they say what I have said they say.

I know that there is a tendency to gloss over the rest of people's posts when they say something that we disagree with; so if you don't remember everything that I have said about these scriptures, then go back and read what I have said about them. I believe that it has all been recorded in this very thread.

If what I have said lines up with what the scripture actually says, then to continue to reject my view would be to reject the scriptural view and to thus be less of a Christian; at the very least you would be a Christian who is unfaithful in that which is least (and by proxy (Luke 16:10), unfaithful in that which is greater)...and if you were to continue down such a path I would even question your salvation (because how can an unfaithful person claim to be a follower of Christ; redeemed by the blood of the Lamb?)
 

H. Richard

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I believe that if your views are contrary to what I have taught about the scripture at hand, that they are unbiblical.

I would suggest taking a second look at the scriptures at hand (1 Corinthians 11:1-16) and be a Berean about what I have taught concerning them. See if they say what I have said they say.

I know that there is a tendency to gloss over the rest of people's posts when they say something that we disagree with; so if you don't remember everything that I have said about these scriptures, then go back and read what I have said about them. I believe that it has all been recorded in this very thread.

If what I have said lines up with what the scripture actually says, then to continue to reject my view would be to reject the scriptural view and to thus be less of a Christian; at the very least you would be a Christian who is unfaithful in that which is least (and by proxy (Luke 16:10), unfaithful in that which is greater)...and if you were to continue down such a path I would even question your salvation (because how can an unfaithful person claim to be a follower of Christ; redeemed by the blood of the Lamb?)

Oh yes, we know, your view is the only one that is correct and you must see that everyone places their faith in it. Your religion or the highway.
 
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Pearl

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I believe that if your views are contrary to what I have taught about the scripture at hand, that they are unbiblical.
And who are you if I may ask? I don't know you from Adam. But what I do know of you from your posts is that you come across as judgemental and consider your own views to be right and those of others to be wrong.
 
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justbyfaith

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And who are you if I may ask? I don't know you from Adam. But what I do know of you from your posts is that you come across as judgemental and consider your own views to be right and those of others to be wrong.

If you don't want to heed my teaching on the scriptures at hand, that is your prerogative. Just be aware of the following scripture:

Ecc 11:9, Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.

Oh yes, we know, your view is the only one that is correct and you must see that everyone places their faith in it. Your religion or the highway.

I would only encourage you and everyone else to be a Berean concerning the matters of what I am preaching.


It seems to me that when the Lord calls on a person to do what they simply don't want to do (even if it is a minor thing), that they rebel against the Lord's will for them.

This would indicate that Jesus is not their Lord (but they still want Him to be their Saviour).

It is written, "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power"

This means that those who have truly received Jesus as their Saviour are willing to submit to Him as Lord.

The bottom line is that if He is not your Lord, He is not your Saviour.

If you object that you are not under law but under grace I would mention that sin should not have dominion over you because of that (Romans 6:14); and that not obeying the Lord on any issue is sin.

If it is only a minor issue, how much more should we be obedient to Him on that issue? For if we are not faithful in that which is least, we will not be faithful in that which is greater (Luke 16:10).

You should be grateful that He has saved you, and therefore willing to obey Him on any and every issue.
 

justbyfaith

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Jas 1:22, But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23, For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24, For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26, If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27, Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
 

H. Richard

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If you don't want to heed my teaching on the scriptures at hand, that is your prerogative. Just be aware of the following scripture:

Ecc 11:9, Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.



I would only encourage you and everyone else to be a Berean concerning the matters of what I am preaching.


It seems to me that when the Lord calls on a person to do what they simply don't want to do (even if it is a minor thing), that they rebel against the Lord's will for them.

This would indicate that Jesus is not their Lord (but they still want Him to be their Saviour).

It is written, "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power"

This means that those who have truly received Jesus as their Saviour are willing to submit to Him as Lord.

The bottom line is that if He is not your Lord, He is not your Saviour.

If you object that you are not under law but under grace I would mention that sin should not have dominion over you because of that (Romans 6:14); and that not obeying the Lord on any issue is sin.

If it is only a minor issue, how much more should we be obedient to Him on that issue? For if we are not faithful in that which is least, we will not be faithful in that which is greater (Luke 16:10).

You should be grateful that He has saved you, and therefore willing to obey Him on any and every issue.

As I see it obeying Him is putting faith in His work on the cross and only in His work. It certainly is not putting faith in the flesh to keep rules and regulations to save it's self.

To Obey Him is to put faith in His work on the cross nothing else. It certainly IS NOT putting faith in man. and that includes putting faith in the work of the flesh.

I notice you quoted from the book of James. A book that was written to the Jews who were under the law of Moses. It certainly was not written to the Gentiles. If you think it was then you make James 1:1 a lie.
 
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