This may be tough for some to swallow, but....

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Man on Fire

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Question: How does a man end up with a clean slate of honor?

Lets say a man was a thief. He may be able to seek and find God. Given he found God, he may have been suddenly saved. Part of a process of sanctification, through the Spirit of God, he may have had to ask forgiveness and/or give back what he stole. He may have to pay some sort of penance. In The Body of Christ, he may have caused hurt and darkness. He may have to work to fix that hurt and darkness?

A man who murdered someone, and is in jail may be able to find God. He still may have created some hurt in society, or the Body of Christ. He may have to pay the penance, finishing his prison sentence, the penance given to him by society. Given he paid his penance, and was released, should his sin follow him around? No. He paid for his crimes correct?

The Body of Christ

Christians are a Body of Christ. When they take communion they eat of the body and drink of the blood. In the Body, some are the hands, some the feet, some the mouth, some the eyes. Some are Apostles, some are Prophets, some are Pastors, some are Evangelists. We all have a function in the Body. A society of believers. We are a Body of Christ, an Organic Society. (Ephesians 4:11-16)

Where this is profound for teachers and understanding:

Atomism - A belief that society is made up of a collection of self-interested and largely self-sufficient individuals or atoms, rather than social groups. (Liberal Belief on Society)

Organicism - A belief that society operates like an organism or living entity, the whole being more than a collection of its individual parts. (Conservative View on Society.)

(“Political Ideologies An Introduction” Third Edition by Andrew Heywood.)

Given your left hand causes you to sin, cut it off. Being cut off, may be an exile or excommunication. Given there is sin, and a problem, that sin needs to be addressed.

Young women at a Church Youth group gets a boyfriend. She really loves him and would like that perfect marriage. She did something wrong, and was in sin, and he left her. She is now a hurt woman. Given that is not addressed, she may have potentially worked to sabotage her friends, and their relationships and do wicked things. She may have a bad attitude. There would be a wound there in the Body of Christ, and it would need to be fixed so it does not fester.

Someone with an Atomistic view of society may have liked to have the false belief that their actions have no effect on others. They may have had the false belief that their actions influence nobody. Why? They were in sin, and are non-repentant, and they, to live with themselves, they may have needed false ideology. Hillary Clinton, for example, was a Conservative Republican. She became a Feminist and follower of Saul Alinsky. What happened? She wasn't married until her late 20's, and went to college in the middle of a sexual revolution and a lot of debauchery around her peers. Was being in sin, and unrepentant something that changed her and how she viewed the world?

There is a process of sanctification someone may experience growing in Faith with God. Someone's honor may need to be clean. God is a Judge. He is Your Honor or The Honorable.
 

Man on Fire

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Exactly. In working to understand what "The Body of Christ" is we have layers of understanding.

We may be able to say that The Hebrews coming out of Egypt were a Body of Christ or a Body of People. A society. God wanted them to be a Holy people and separate from the Nations around them. Balaam son of Boer comes along and leads some Hebrews into sin. A plague happened. Many were "cut off."

Sin in the Body may be like a wound or cancer. Given that sin isn't addressed and fixed it could fester or grow and the whole body dies.
 

bbyrd009

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Exactly. In working to understand what "The Body of Christ" is we have layers of understanding.

We may be able to say that The Hebrews coming out of Egypt were a Body of Christ or a Body of People. A society. God wanted them to be a Holy people and separate from the Nations around them. Balaam son of Boer comes along and leads some Hebrews into sin. A plague happened. Many were "cut off."

Sin in the Body may be like a wound or cancer. Given that sin isn't addressed and fixed it could fester or grow and the whole body dies.
well, cleaning the outside of the cup is easy i guess. careful of that right eye though :)
imo sin is no problem at all; lack of forgiveness might be tho
 
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farouk

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Exactly. In working to understand what "The Body of Christ" is we have layers of understanding.

We may be able to say that The Hebrews coming out of Egypt were a Body of Christ or a Body of People. A society. God wanted them to be a Holy people and separate from the Nations around them. Balaam son of Boer comes along and leads some Hebrews into sin. A plague happened. Many were "cut off."

Sin in the Body may be like a wound or cancer. Given that sin isn't addressed and fixed it could fester or grow and the whole body dies.
John's First Epistle has a lot to say about being cleansed and walking in the light and fellowship with the Lord and with one another.
 
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Man on Fire

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well, cleaning the outside of the cup is easy i guess. careful of that right eye though :)
imo sin is no problem at all; lack of forgiveness might be tho

There is a difference between forgiveness and justice.

A man is a teacher in a classroom. Given there are rules and standards, the rules and standards should be kept. Given someone was breaking the rules, applying the standards and discipline may have nothing to do with forgiveness. Applying the standards and correction has to do with Justice. Enforcing the rules, how is someone in his heart? It takes maturity to do. A police officer who had bad things in heart may have been sadistic or unfair. He didn't apply the standards or the law equally. The Law is the Law? Not the Law 100% like in the Laws of Moses, but God has law like in Psalms 1:1-4.

Jesus chastises and rebukes those he loves. (Revelations 3:19) To chastise and rebuke someone, there must be some standard. A standard may be like a dress standard at work. The dress standard may be "Business attire, shirt tucked in." Someone who came to work not in business attire, may have ended up chastised and rebuked. Given he doesn't repent, and keeps coming to work wrong, he could lose his job. Given the manager does not apply the standards, and enforce them, why should anyone keep them? A group of co-workers see people break the standards, and get away with it, and they think, if he can do it than so can I, or I guess the standards were not really important. They start showing up to work in sweat pants. To apply or enforce the standards again, the manager may have to have some sort of meeting where the standards are against explained, and they start to be enforced.
 

bbyrd009

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There is a difference between forgiveness and justice.

A man is a teacher in a classroom. Given there are rules and standards, the rules and standards should be kept. Given someone was breaking the rules, applying the standards and discipline may have nothing to do with forgiveness. Applying the standards and correction has to do with Justice. Enforcing the rules, how is someone in his heart? It takes maturity to do. A police officer who had bad things in heart may have been sadistic or unfair. He didn't apply the standards or the law equally. The Law is the Law? Not the Law 100% like in the Laws of Moses, but God has law like in Psalms 1:1-4.

Jesus chastises and rebukes those he loves. (Revelations 3:19) To chastise and rebuke someone, there must be some standard. A standard may be like a dress standard at work. The dress standard may be "Business attire, shirt tucked in." Someone who came to work not in business attire, may have ended up chastised and rebuked. Given he doesn't repent, and keeps coming to work wrong, he could lose his job. Given the manager does not apply the standards, and enforce them, why should anyone keep them? A group of co-workers see people break the standards, and get away with it, and they think, if he can do it than so can I, or I guess the standards were not really important. They start showing up to work in sweat pants. To apply or enforce the standards again, the manager may have to have some sort of meeting where the standards are against explained, and they start to be enforced.
ok, ty
 

farouk

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There is a difference between forgiveness and justice.

A man is a teacher in a classroom. Given there are rules and standards, the rules and standards should be kept. Given someone was breaking the rules, applying the standards and discipline may have nothing to do with forgiveness. Applying the standards and correction has to do with Justice. Enforcing the rules, how is someone in his heart? It takes maturity to do. A police officer who had bad things in heart may have been sadistic or unfair. He didn't apply the standards or the law equally. The Law is the Law? Not the Law 100% like in the Laws of Moses, but God has law like in Psalms 1:1-4.

Jesus chastises and rebukes those he loves. (Revelations 3:19) To chastise and rebuke someone, there must be some standard. A standard may be like a dress standard at work. The dress standard may be "Business attire, shirt tucked in." Someone who came to work not in business attire, may have ended up chastised and rebuked. Given he doesn't repent, and keeps coming to work wrong, he could lose his job. Given the manager does not apply the standards, and enforce them, why should anyone keep them? A group of co-workers see people break the standards, and get away with it, and they think, if he can do it than so can I, or I guess the standards were not really important. They start showing up to work in sweat pants. To apply or enforce the standards again, the manager may have to have some sort of meeting where the standards are against explained, and they start to be enforced.
Justification in Scripture brings the believer out of the penalty of sin, but the penalty was still borne by Another...
 

Man on Fire

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Justification in Scripture brings the believer out of the penalty of sin, but the penalty was still borne by Another...

In the Secular world in 2019, there may have been a lot of unrepentant people who did wrong. There may have been a lot of illusions or false perceptions around certain people. An illusion or false perception may have been someone watching the movie "Iron Man" and then associating Gwyenth Paltrow with the character Pepper Potts. Gwyenth Paltrow would be an actress, and is a very different person from some of the characters. When it comes to sin, there may have been a lot of people who did a lot of wrong, but there wrong has been more "private" or "behind closed doors." There may have been some illusions or false perceptions about certain people, and who they were.
Someone like Harvey Weinstein was doing a lot of wrong, it was public knowledge in his peer group, and people looked the other way. Suddenly, what had been more private, was made public knowledge, and suddenly Harvey Weinstein was in trouble.

In the Body of Christ, how much wrong doing has been going on in private or "behind closed doors?" Given we are building the Kingdom of God, men should be called into repentance. They need to desire a relationship with God, and in their hearts be penitent men. Given people are blindmen, blindmen in sin, and there has been a lot of sin around and in The Body of Christ, a lot of people have not been justified, they do not a have a relationship with God, and they may have been given over to dishonorable passions, and spiritual blindness and deafness. People may have ended up with more of a tradition and doctrines than a faith.

God is Holy and Separate from sin. Given someone was saved.....they were saved. Do they have sin and guilt on their soul? Does an old girlfriend or some people have a grudge or unforgiveness in their hearts towards a person saved by God's Grace? Given there were issues, those issues may need to fixed. A man shows his faith by his deeds.
 

Yehren

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Best let them go for it among themselves, as all that the West is doing over their is spinning it's wheels and getting no where, if you try to help them they only bite you in the back.
Not one Kurd or any of the Semitic people over in the East has any love for the USA at all...

Kurds aren't Semites. They are Indo-Europeans, speaking several related languages that are derived from Proto-Indoeuropean, like ours.

in fact, if they had it there way they would kill everyone in the USA and the in West

That seems unlikely, seeing as the Muslim Kurds have been protecting non-Muslim groups in Syria. In fact Alevi and Christian militias in Syria are coordinating with Kurdish Peshmerga. The Kurds (at least before Trump betrayed them) were very fond of Americans. We gave them aid and respect, and being Kurds, they responded. They aren't gentle, compliant people; if they were, they'd be extinct by now. They make really bad enemies, but strong and solid friends.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Kurds aren't Semites. They are Indo-Europeans, speaking several related languages that are derived from Proto-Indoeuropean, like ours.



That seems unlikely, seeing as the Muslim Kurds have been protecting non-Muslim groups in Syria. In fact Alevi and Christian militias in Syria are coordinating with Kurdish Peshmerga. The Kurds (at least before Trump betrayed them) were very fond of Americans. We gave them aid and respect, and being Kurds, they responded. They aren't gentle, compliant people; if they were, they'd be extinct by now. They make really bad enemies, but strong and solid friends.
Your kidding !
The Kurds are trash always were and always will be, their history proves it. and as you said they make really bad enemies ? and with friends like them who needs enemy's.
A mate had a Kurd as a friend and what a mongrel this bloke was, just so full of malice and try take advantage of you all the time and my mate has noting to do with him anymore.
I prefer a Moslem over him any day by far. it was that he was trying to take advantage of all around him 24/7 and when he could not take advantage of you then you seen the other side of him, what a moron, he thought that he was smart. the Moslems are a lot smarter then him but they show no malic and are very controlled when you are working with them, but if they were to hate you they will let you know all about it. I have never had a problem with a Moslem myself and when I got to know them they respected me because I talked openly with them.
 

Enoch111

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The Kurds (at least before Trump betrayed them) were very fond of Americans.
I would have to agree, but the Americans have betrayed them too many times. The Kurds (just like the Armenians) have been a persecuted minority and deserved total support from the USA (which should have pulled out of Afghanistan long ago, stopped aid to Paklstan and Iraq, and made serious efforts to give the Kurds their own territory since they are in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey). Turkey should have been booted out of NATO a long time ago, and Erdogan should have been put on notice regarding his support for ISIS and Islamist terrorists.

As to Syria, people can thank Obama for the mess it has become. One has to feel sorry for the Syrian people and the total ruination of their country because of one evil man who should have been targeted and eliminated a long time ago.

Mr. Trump has been inconsistent in his foreign policy in the Middle East, and chances are this latest development will hurt him.

"...While Erdoğan and Turkish diplomats may complain that the U.S. should not partner with Syrian Kurds regardless, it is important to remember that U.S. partnership occurred only after failing for three years to get Turkey to stop supporting radical and extremist groups in Syria. At the pivotal battle for Kobane, Kurdish fighters held out for weeks against an Islamic State onslaught only to emerge victorious. That in itself was a miracle which Turkey sought to undermine, even allowing Islamic State fighters to cross its border in order to attempt to outflank Kurds fighting the Islamist radicals..."

Trump's Syria decision will be responsible for ISIS 2.0
 
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Yehren

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Yehren writes:
The Kurds (at least before Trump betrayed them) were very fond of Americans.

I would have to agree, but the Americans have betrayed them too many times.

Not until now. And the Kurds realize this. They aren't fools; they know Turkey has been a loyal ally to America, and is a key element in NATO. Trump's support for Erdogan makes it less likely for democracy to be re-established in Turkey, but the Turks are not uniformly happy with Erdogan; he's lost some key elections lately, and like Trump, he's finding that his people are getting tired of his autocratic ways.

The Kurds (just like the Armenians) have been a persecuted minority and deserved total support from the USA (which should have pulled out of Afghanistan long ago, stopped aid to Paklstan and Iraq, and made serious efforts to give the Kurds their own territory since they are in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey).

How simple, it is, um? No, it's not for example, there are also Marxist Kurdish groups, and cutting up those nations to make a greater Kurdistan would be destabilizing in the same way the Balkanization of Southern Europe has repeatedly been a flash point for trouble. For the foreseeable future, an autonomous Kurdistan within Iraq is the best that can be done. And that's a done deal; the Arab Iraqis might not be happy about it, but Kurdistan is a pillar of stability for the country; there's a good reason ISIS gave them a wide berth.

Turkey should have been booted out of NATO a long time ago,

Turkish troops have been loyal and effective allies. Read a little about their performance alongside American forces in the Korean War. Erdogan, like so many other leaders in the last few years, has drifted to the right, and is seeking to dismantle Turkish democracy. But he's not Turkey.

and Erdogan should have been put on notice regarding his support for ISIS and Islamist terrorists.

The massacre targeting New Year's Eve revelers at an Istanbul nightclub illustrates that the relationship between ISIS and Turkey has shifted from an uneasy peace to an all-out war, according to experts.

ISIS has claimed responsibility for the shooting, identifying the attacker who killed 39 people as "a heroic soldier of the caliphate." The group said the rampage had been carried out "in response to a call" from its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, although it didn't say whether it directed or merely inspired the perpetrator. They did not identify the attacker by name or provide proof he was acting on their behalf.

Michael Horowitz, director of intelligence at Middle East-based political risk consultancy Prime Source, suggested that Sunday's attack signaled that ISIS had initiated "open war" with Turkey, which boasts NATO's second-largest military.

Throughout 2014 and part of 2015, Turkey and ISIS had "an implicit understanding," according to Fawaz Gerges, the author "ISIS: A History." Their mutual approach was live and let live, he added.

During that period, Ankara prioritized unseating Syrian President Bashar al-Assad over direct engagement in the war against the Sunni militants.

As ISIS' atrocities mounted, Turkey, as a major player in the region, faced huge pressure to take action.

On July 20, 2015, a suicide bomber killed more than 30 people in the Turkish town of Suruc, near the Syrian border.

Two days later, Erdogan received a phone call from President Barack Obama. Within days, American warplane began roaring off the runway the the Incirlik Air Base in southern Turkey to strike ISIS targets in Syria.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/i...anbul-attack-signals-descent-open-war-n702611


As to Syria, people can thank Obama for the mess it has become.

When Obama demanded that Assad give up his chemical weapons, Putin initially backed up Assad. But when Obama said that failure to surrender the weapons would result in U.S. military attacks on Syria, Putin folded and told Assad he'd have to comply. And he did. To Trump's credit, when Assad assumed a weak U.S. president would allow him to re-arm, Trump bombed Syrian installations when Assad rebuilt his chemical program and used gas on civilians. But he failed to follow up on that, and Syria took advantage by crushing the rebellion. Now Trump wants to also withdraw Obama's support for the Kurds.

Mr. Trump has been inconsistent in his foreign policy in the Middle East, and chances are this latest development will hurt him.

Ya think? That cowardly capitulation to Erdogan was too much even for lapdogs like Lindsey Graham. I doubt very much if ISIS will return to a physical "caliphate." More likely, Trump's appeasement will enable it to rebuild as a stateless terrorist group.
 
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Yehren

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Your kidding !
The Kurds are trash always were and always will be, their history proves it. and as you said they make really bad enemies ? and with friends like them who needs enemy's.

I have several friends who are Kurds. Solid as they come. Sorry about your friend's friend. I suppose there are evil people in all cultures.

I prefer a Moslem over him any day by far.

Kurds are mostly Muslims. They just don't feel compelled to force other people to be Muslims.

the Moslems are a lot smarter then him but they show no malic and are very controlled when you are working with them, but if they were to hate you they will let you know all about it.

My assistant coach was a Muslim. And a Kurd. A gentleman, quite open about his religious beliefs; he moved to America precisely because he didn't want to be where one's faith was up to the government.
 
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Giuliano

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When it rains, it pours. I'm sure Trump's lawyers will appeal the case involving his tax returns all the way to the Supreme Court in necessary. I think he needs to get better lawyers. I can't imagine why his current ones would make this claim of "absolute immunity" in the courts. Couldn't they find any better legal arguments? I could see delaying cases maybe if someone is President, but I can't see "absolute immunity."

Judge tosses a Trump lawsuit to keep his taxes secret

A federal judge in New York spiked President Donald Trump’s attempt to block a Manhattan prosecutor from obtaining his tax and financial records from the accounting firm Mazars USA, dismissing his "extraordinary" claim to be immune from criminal investigation.

In a 75-page ruling on Monday, Judge Victor Marrero sharply rejected longstanding Department of Justice opinions that say a president cannot be indicted or prosecuted while in office, calling their conclusions "not warranted" or backed up by the authority of the courts.


Marrero said Trump's claim of "absolute immunity" from criminal proceedings is counter to the intent of the framers of the Constitution, who rejected having an executive with the limitless power of an absolute monarch. Marrero described the president's argument as "repugnant to the nation's governmental structure and constitutional values."

In addition, the effort by Trump to scuttle the district attorney’s subpoena would protect any potential accomplices from facing justice while Trump remained in office, Marrero noted — a sweeping claim of immunity that could result in Trump and his allies being above the law. Similar arguments have been soundly and repeatedly rejected by the Supreme Court and other federal judges, he noted in his ruling.

"The notion of ... presidential immunity from judicial process that the President here invokes, unqualified and boundless in its reach described above, cuts against the grain of these Constitutional precedents," wrote Marrero, an appointee of President Bill Clinton.

Trump’s private legal team immediately filed an “emergency appeal” of the decision to the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. And the appeals court quickly issued a temporary stay of Marrero's ruling while proceedings are pending.

The 2nd Circuit’s brief order indicated a three-judge panel would conduct “expedited review” of whether a stay pending the outcome of the appeal is appropriate.
 
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4Jesus

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Ugh, now the Kurd/Turkey situation in Syria is blowing up, literally. Turkey launches offensive in northern Syria with air strikes.

They're bombing civilian and Kurdish areas, along with Turkish ground troops building up.

I wonder if Israel is going to start in sometime soon...

I wonder if Trump is going to keep his word and go after Turkey now, since bombing civilians, one would presume and if it's true, is "off-limits", and not just bombing storage depots.