The Religious Mind

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justbyfaith

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As I see it obeying Him is putting faith in His work on the cross and only in His work. It certainly is not putting faith in the flesh to keep rules and regulations to save it's self.

To Obey Him is to put faith in His work on the cross nothing else. It certainly IS NOT putting faith in man. and that includes putting faith in the work of the flesh.

I notice you quoted from the book of James. A book that was written to the Jews who were under the law of Moses. It certainly was not written to the Gentiles. If you think it was then you make James 1:1 a lie.

I didn't quote from the book of James. But even if I had, James 1:1 does not render the book of James inapplicable to us. Otherwise Philippians 1:1 renders Philippians inapplicable to us; since it says that Philippians is written to the saints at Philippi with the bishops and deacons. Therefore, if the fact that James was written to the twelve tribes scattered abroad means that it is not for us today, then the fact that Philippians was written to the saints at Philippi with the bishops and deacons means that it is not applicable for us today.

I happen to believe that both Philippians and James are applicable, 2 Timothy 3:16.

Now to obey Jesus has practical aspects; it does not refer only to the faith that we place in Jesus for our salvation.

Truly, if we have placed our faith in His finished work, we will also be submitted to Him in the specifics of His commandments to us, such as the specific details of obedience that He laid out for us in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) and the Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6:20-49).

In James 1:22 it is written that if we are a hearer of the word only, and not a doer, we are deceiving ourselves. This applies whether we accept the applicability of the epistle of James or not. All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for doctrine, for correction, for reproof, and for instruction in righteousness.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). As those who are spiritually-minded, we are subject in our minds to the law of God, and cannot be otherwise (Romans 8:7). The love of the Lord is shed abroad in the hearts of those who truly believe (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5); and this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4) within us. This love is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

Therefore, obedience in our lives is a practical thing (see 1 John 3:7, Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19) that is more than just our simple faith in what Jesus did for us on the Cross.

Truly. it is faith alone in what Christ did for us that is our salvation. However, if we have truly received this, we have been made into new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17); and out of gratitude and love for the One who redeemed us (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5), we obey Him in every matter where He desires/requires obedience.
 
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Pearl

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If you don't want to heed my teaching on the scriptures at hand, that is your prerogative. Just be aware of the following scripture:
Yes well perhaps you need you heed my teaching but it is your prerogative to ignore it. So apply that scripture you quoted to yourself.
 

justbyfaith

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Yes well perhaps you need you heed my teaching but it is your prerogative to ignore it. So apply that scripture you quoted to yourself.
What exactly is your teaching on the matter, is my question.

And you can be certain that I will be a Berean about it once I know what it is.

However, you are not being a Berean about my teaching on the matter; otherwise you would have gone to the scriptures in question and meditated on them: and you would have seen that they do indeed say what I say they say.

Secondly, I believe that it was Paul the apostle who wrote that he does not allow a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man.

So then, whatever your teaching might be, it is something that I am told to not even listen to or heed; since it is the teaching of woman to man.
 

H. Richard

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I didn't quote from the book of James. But even if I had, James 1:1 does not render the book of James inapplicable to us. Otherwise Philippians 1:1 renders Philippians inapplicable to us; since it says that Philippians is written to the saints at Philippi with the bishops and deacons. Therefore, if the fact that James was written to the twelve tribes scattered abroad means that it is not for us today, then the fact that Philippians was written to the saints at Philippi with the bishops and deacons means that it is not applicable for us today.

I happen to believe that both Philippians and James are applicable, 2 Timothy 3:16.

Now to obey Jesus has practical aspects; it does not refer only to the faith that we place in Jesus for our salvation.

Truly, if we have placed our faith in His finished work, we will also be submitted to Him in the specifics of His commandments to us, such as the specific details of obedience that He laid out for us in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) and the Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6:20-49).

In James 1:22 it is written that if we are a hearer of the word only, and not a doer, we are deceiving ourselves. This applies whether we accept the applicability of the epistle of James or not. All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for doctrine, for correction, for reproof, and for instruction in righteousness.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). As those who are spiritually-minded, we are subject in our minds to the law of God, and cannot be otherwise (Romans 8:7). The love of the Lord is shed abroad in the hearts of those who truly believe (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5); and this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4) within us. This love is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

Therefore, obedience in our lives is a practical thing (see 1 John 3:7, Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19) that is more than just our simple faith in what Jesus did for us on the Cross.

Truly. it is faith alone in what Christ did for us that is our salvation. However, if we have truly received this, we have been made into new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17); and out of gratitude and love for the One who redeemed us (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5), we obey Him in every matter where He desires/requires obedience.

Everyone knows you believe what you post. But that does not make what you post correct.
 
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justbyfaith

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and that is exactly what it is YOUR teaching i bet your wife has to walk 10 paces behind you
She doesn't have to...she normally walks pretty slow however and sometimes I walk ahead of her because it is difficult for me to slow down...when I do slow down she often walks even slower; so I just tend to walk at my own pace: and when she gets too far behind I stop and wait for her to catch up.

Sometimes I make her walk ten paces ahead of me...but only when there are land mines. :eek::p:D.

But you have no idea how much I love my wife. Because in case you are too dense to understand it, that last thing was a joke.

I would take a land mine for her. But you can be sure that most people would identify me as being an MCP.

Everyone knows you believe what you post. But that does not make what you post correct.

It doesn't make it incorrect either. I encourage you to be a Berean (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) on the matter.
 
B

Butterfly

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and that is exactly what it is YOUR teaching i bet your wife has to walk 10 paces behind you
Certainly does make you wonder what kind of life she has. I never had a problem with men and women having different roles when I was married, despite the problems that came along to end the marriage, we were kind of compatible. I am into more equality, but definitely not the extreme kind.
I cannot imagine Jesus not allowing a women's words to be relevant, valuable - and yet here we have it. Some on here ' dont listen to much of what we write, and definitely dont adhere if it states anything here relates to teaching ' So if the Holy Spirit imparts the gift of wisdom / word of knowledge ect onto a women and she shares that wisdom, those with this view, actually end up ignoring the Holy Spirit.
Rita
 

justbyfaith

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@H. Richard and @Pearl

I put that person on ignore, and the forums now are a bit more intelligent. It's like weeding with Roundup.

This is what the Lord says unto me concerning this:

Jhn 15:18, If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Jhn 15:19, If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Jhn 15:20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.


1Jo 3:11, For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jo 3:12, Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
1Jo 3:13, Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jo 3:14, We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

 
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Butterfly

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I dont think you are a MSP justbyfaith, my father in law was one, but I simply think that many women are trapped and dont have the freedom in christ that he died for. That's just my opinion. You may really love your wife, but it's how your wife must feel at times that concerns me. You are not the one who isn't allowed the freedom to speak at times, she is, so how would you know the impact of the rules that are placed on her. As I dont believe in your interpretation, I believe you are restricting her freedom.
Rita
 

justbyfaith

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Certainly does make you wonder what kind of life she has. I never had a problem with men and women having different roles when I was married, despite the problems that came along to end the marriage, we were kind of compatible. I am into more equality, but definitely not the extreme kind.
I cannot imagine Jesus not allowing a women's words to be relevant, valuable - and yet here we have it. Some on here ' dont listen to much of what we write, and definitely dont adhere if it states anything here relates to teaching ' So if the Holy Spirit imparts the gift of wisdom / word of knowledge ect onto a women and she shares that wisdom, those with this view, actually end up ignoring the Holy Spirit.
Rita
Paul said, I don't allow a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man.

Therefore, the Holy Spirit might say something authoritative to a woman through a woman; but He is not going to say something authoritative to a man through a woman.

Adam was formed first, then Eve. And the man was not deceived, but the woman, being deceived, fell into transgression.

Some of the worst heresies in all of church history came about through women who tried to take on an authoritative role in the church. Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen G. White, the false Christ of the church of Almighty God, to name a few.

Just look at Solomon's words in Ecclesiastes 7:26-28.

One man among a thousand might be worthy; but a woman among that many, he could not find that was worthy.
 
B

Butterfly

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This is what the Lord says unto me concerning this:

Jhn 15:18, If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Jhn 15:19, If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Jhn 15:20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.


1Jo 3:11, For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jo 3:12, Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
1Jo 3:13, Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jo 3:14, We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Have you noticed that ' submission ' is very much apart of the world as well , look at muslims - how they treat their women - if you honestly believe that what you do cannot be influenced by the wrong kind of submission , which has become more about power than love and submission to Christ.
Then you are deceived.
Rita
 
B

Butterfly

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Paul said, I don't allow a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man.

Therefore, the Holy Spirit might say something authoritative to a woman through a woman; but He is not going to say something authoritative to a man through a woman.

Adam was formed first, then Eve. And the man was not deceived, but the woman, being deceived, fell into transgression.

Some of the worst heresies in all of church history came about through women who tried to take on an authoritative role in the church. Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen G. White, the false Christ of the church of Almighty God, to name a few.

Just look at Solomon's words in Ecclesiastes 7:26-28.

One man among a thousand might be worthy; but a woman among that many, he could not find that was worthy.
Sorry justbyfaith, I have little respect for your take on things. That post also reveals so much - you honestly believe you are beyond being deceived because you are a man!
 

justbyfaith

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I dont think you are a MCP justbyfaith, my father in law was one, but I simply think that many women are trapped and dont have the freedom in christ that he died for. That's just my opinion. You may really love your wife, but it's how your wife must feel at times that concerns me. You are not the one who isn't allowed the freedom to speak at times, she is, so how would you know the impact of the rules that are placed on her. As I dont believe in your interpretation, I believe you are restricting her freedom.
Rita
There are certain things that restrict everyone's freedom. For example, speaking from the pulpit is limited to the minister that is appointed to speak. I know what that is like for me; because I have a gift for speaking the word to people (believe it or not); and I feel that my gifts and talents are not being used to the fullest extent possible.

But as for my wife, she teaches children's church and has more influence than you can even imagine because of that. She is affecting the next generation for Christ. I also do not restrict her from sharing her faith with anyone she chooses outside of a church setting. Women can operate in gifts in many ways, apart from speaking in a church setting. And also, in a church setting, they are definitely allowed to minister to other women. But there is a biblical, and therefore eternal, restriction on women teaching or usurping authority over a man. Because the Bible is the eternal word of God; it is timeless in nature. And therefore, when it says that women are not to teach men, it is to be heeded.

It is indeed a peripheral and perhaps minor issue in things. But if we are unfaithful in that which is least, we will also be unfaithful in much. Therefore if someone rejects this word, how can they be trusted to be faithful in issues that are of major importance to salvation?
 

justbyfaith

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Sorry justbyfaith, I have little respect for your take on things. That post also reveals so much - you honestly believe you are beyond being deceived because you are a man!
That is not what I said...

I am not beyond being deceived over the fact that I am a man (though I might be beyond it for that I am one of the Lord's elect).

What I am saying is that that scripture (1 Timothy 2:11-15) teaches that women are more prone to being deceived than men...not that men are immune from the possibility.
 
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justbyfaith

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Have you noticed that ' submission ' is very much apart of the world as well , look at muslims - how they treat their women - if you honestly believe that what you do cannot be influenced by the wrong kind of submission , which has become more about power than love and submission to Christ.
Then you are deceived.
Rita
I am simply attempting to bring forth an exegesis of the Bible passage at hand (1 Corinthians 11:1-16); in such a way as to be faithful in that which is least.

I know also that I am getting flack for it; but that Jesus sees me being faithful to Him.

I know also that I will be given more because I am faithful in that which is least.

I am not being deceived, dear Rita.

I know that I am being faithful to the text...God's word to all of us on the issues at hand.
 
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Butterfly

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Hi just by faitb - I am on the bus to work now, will read your posts and respond later- didn't want you to think I was ignoring your posts x
 

H. Richard

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She doesn't have to...she normally walks pretty slow however and sometimes I walk ahead of her because it is difficult for me to slow down...when I do slow down she often walks even slower; so I just tend to walk at my own pace: and when she gets too far behind I stop and wait for her to catch up.

Sometimes I make her walk ten paces ahead of me...but only when there are land mines. :eek::p:D.

But you have no idea how much I love my wife. Because in case you are too dense to understand it, that last thing was a joke.

I would take a land mine for her. But you can be sure that most people would identify me as being an MCP.



It doesn't make it incorrect either. I encourage you to be a Berean (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) on the matter.

I encourage you to THINK. Saul (Paul) was so religious that he went about persecuting and having all those that believed Jesus was the Christ killed. He believed he was doing God a favor. The RCC persecuted all those that would not believe what they believed and calling them Heretics had them killed. And here you are with the same attitude of imposing your belief's on others and if they refuse you castigate them. Your attitude is that you are the only one that is right and it is you doing God a favor by criticizing them for their beliefs.

Personally I see no difference between what Saul and the RCC did and what you are doing. I believe that if you were living in the dark ages you would do the same thing the RCC did. With your attitude there is no way I can believe as you do.
 
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