CharismaticLady
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You never had any intention of telling me your definition of grace, because you don't know.
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Calvinism
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You never had any intention of telling me your definition of grace, because you don't know.
CharismaticLady
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This is very true. The gospel can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink. Repentance is the key to finding grace. And grace IS the power of God.
In advanced studies on the language of the apostles and the style they write in which is key to understanding the meaning of their writings, we see one example of a parallelism in Acts 4:33.
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.
The purpose of a parallelism is to confirm and elaborate that one is the same as the other. Here grace is power.
Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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Yes charisma is one representation, but this modern movement is not representative.
CharismaticLady
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Waiting on him
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CharismaticLady
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That's what you've been told by people that do not have the Spirit to begin with, and erroneous twisting of Scripture leads to more false statements.
CharismaticLady
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Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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FHII
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So what is the Bible definition of Grace?
There is none. The Bible doesn't actually define "Grace". Nor does it define "faith". You may think it does on the latter, but it doesn't. Sure... Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of the unseen.
True... But that tells you what it is without defining it. It's like saying a car is substance that moves you from place to place. It's evidence that we are technologically advanced. Given that, a caveman would still have no idea what a car is.
What the Bible does tell us is the characteristics of Grace and faith are. We know:
Grace comes only by faith.
Grace doesn't come by works.
Grace and works don't mix.
Grace saves us, while the law doesn't.
Grace allows us to serve God Acceptably.
Grace is accompanied by truth.
Grace and faith are inseperatable.
Grace is a gift from God, and thus cannot be earned.
None of these statements really define Grace. Yet they do give us characteristics. So while it may be incomplete, I like the definition of "unmerited favor".
Is it "unmerited"? Do we deserve it? I think not! God gave the law, and if we could actually keep all of it, perhaps it would be merited. Perhaps we would deserve and earn it. But we do sin every day, and willfully.
Are you wearing polyester socks and underwear? You are guilty! Do you have a battlement on your house? If not you are guilty! Find a penny on the street? Did you seek to return it to its owner? Guilty!
I could go on and on and find something we are all guilty of.
Isaiah 64:6 KJV
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
The Bible says we are all unclean. Grace is truly, by God's standards, unmerited.
Or do you disagree? Is there someone who disagrees? Is there someone here who believes they actually deserves God's grace? God is looking for a bride without spot, wrinkle or blemish. Is there someone here who thinks they are that or will ever achieve that?
Do you really think you will ever live up to God's standards?
So if Grace only covers past sins, what exactly is the difference between Jesus dying and a goat dying? See, a goat, bull or Bullock could atone for pass sins. Not for future sins. It's not possible for them to take away sins. Simply out of remembrance.
Jesus took away sins once and for all. Past, present and future. That is sriptiral from Hebrews 10.
So Grace as "unmerited favor"... Yea... As a two word definition, it's good! It is unmerited and it is favor. There may be more to it, but It's alot better than a whole book saying otherwise with either perverse biblical verses or no backing at all.
There is none. The Bible doesn't actually define "Grace". Nor does it define "faith". You may think it does on the latter, but it doesn't. Sure... Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of the unseen.
True... But that tells you what it is without defining it. It's like saying a car is substance that moves you from place to place. It's evidence that we are technologically advanced. Given that, a caveman would still have no idea what a car is.
What the Bible does tell us is the characteristics of Grace and faith are. We know:
Grace comes only by faith.
Grace doesn't come by works.
Grace and works don't mix.
Grace saves us, while the law doesn't.
Grace allows us to serve God Acceptably.
Grace is accompanied by truth.
Grace and faith are inseperatable.
Grace is a gift from God, and thus cannot be earned.
None of these statements really define Grace. Yet they do give us characteristics. So while it may be incomplete, I like the definition of "unmerited favor".
Is it "unmerited"? Do we deserve it? I think not! God gave the law, and if we could actually keep all of it, perhaps it would be merited. Perhaps we would deserve and earn it. But we do sin every day, and willfully.
Are you wearing polyester socks and underwear? You are guilty! Do you have a battlement on your house? If not you are guilty! Find a penny on the street? Did you seek to return it to its owner? Guilty!
I could go on and on and find something we are all guilty of.
Isaiah 64:6 KJV
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
The Bible says we are all unclean. Grace is truly, by God's standards, unmerited.
Or do you disagree? Is there someone who disagrees? Is there someone here who believes they actually deserves God's grace? God is looking for a bride without spot, wrinkle or blemish. Is there someone here who thinks they are that or will ever achieve that?
Do you really think you will ever live up to God's standards?
So if Grace only covers past sins, what exactly is the difference between Jesus dying and a goat dying? See, a goat, bull or Bullock could atone for pass sins. Not for future sins. It's not possible for them to take away sins. Simply out of remembrance.
Jesus took away sins once and for all. Past, present and future. That is sriptiral from Hebrews 10.
So Grace as "unmerited favor"... Yea... As a two word definition, it's good! It is unmerited and it is favor. There may be more to it, but It's alot better than a whole book saying otherwise with either perverse biblical verses or no backing at all.
FHII
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OzSpen
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John,
My understanding of Calvinism is TULIP in the Presbyterian-Reformed tradition of Calvin and Beza. Of course there are Reformed Arminians in the Jacobus Arminius tradition.
A couple months ago I wrote an article, Was John Calvin a TULIP Calvinist?
My estimate is that out of the 5 TULIP points he's 4.9. He waivers sometimes on how he states Limited Atonement. Sometime it's for all the world and at other times he straddles the fence and makes it for the elect. On the L, this is how he looks:
Although I reject the ULI of Calvinism, there are many dimensions to its teaching I accept. I have benefitted greatly from its teaching on the doctrine of God, the nature of Christ's sacrifice, Jesus' resurrection, apologetics, etc. I have used Wayne Grudem's systematic theology since it was first published in 1994. I've greatly benefitted from Charles Hodge's systematics. Of late, even though it's heavy going, I'm working my way through sections of the late Norman Geisler's 4 vols of systematic theology. I see that he want home to be with the Lord recently, only 3 weeks short of his 87th birthday.
Oz
OzSpen
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FH,
Ever heard of using Greek and Hebrew lexicons? Try examining the etymology of charis (grace) and pistis (faith).
Check out the meanings in Kittel & Friedrich's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament AND Colin Brown (ed), Dictionary of New Testament Theology.
Oz
You draw a long bow when you try to convince us that 'the Bible doesn't actually define "Grace". Nor does it define "faith"'.
FHII
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Oz,
Yea I have heard of them... Don't need them but they are useful.
The Bible has already been successfully translated into English. Folks who like to dwell over Greek and Hebrew definitions of words often are just trying to get out of doing what the Bible says. It gives them wiggle room.
Of course, you are the exeption. You would never do that, would you?
CharismaticLady
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True. We have to recognize that ONLY Jesus can save us.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the (spoken) words of God. Without the power gifts of the Spirit, we cannot hear God. Faith is one of the gifts of Spirit. It is more powerful than the measure of faith given to all people to repent unto Christ.
“CHARIS” is a word in the original Greek language of the New Testament. It is often translated as grace, kindness, favour, blessing, etc.
Charisma: a divinely conferred power or talent.
True. We have to recognize that we are helpless, and there are some sins that are too tantalizing to stop on our own. Recognizing that is what causes us to truly repent of our carnal nature and cry out to God. The result of true repentance is the baptism of the Holy Spirit by Jesus.
Our own righteousness is as filthy rags. To be truly righteous we need the power of God to do His own works through us. It is then Him, not us.
The law before Christ had to be kept with our sin nature. That is impossible and is a constant struggle. This is what Paul illustrates in Romans 7. The power of God in us given by Jesus is what saves us.
True. The power of God in us allows us to serve God they way He demands.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Without the Spirit in us, the Scriptures cannot be interpreted correctly. Those teachers without the Spirit are false teachers and produce doctrines of defeatism, such as "we will always be in the flesh and carnal, thus we will always sin every day." Jesus says the opposite, but it is not discerned by false teachers.
We cannot earn anything with filthy rags. We have to repent unto Christ, and He gives us His own power, the seed of the Father. Jesus was conceived with the seed of the Father, the Holy Spirit, and it allowed Jesus to live a life free from sin, and no temptation overpowered Him. Jesus provides the baptism of the Holy Spirit to give us the same seed of the Father, and we are dead to sin, Romans 6, and not in the flesh (carnal nature, but are given the divine nature) Romans 8:9 and 2 Peter 1:4.
1 John 3:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
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CharismaticLady
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I love the picture. It reminds me of the drunk moose that climbed up in an apple tree and ate fermented fruit
Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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