10 different NT warning-types against eternal security

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charity

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1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV


If you're not in the future "kingdom of God", then where else do you think you'd be??

Your Universalist salvation idea doesn't work. The wicked will only be saved IF they repent and believe on Jesus, and follow Him. Otherwise they will go into the future "lake of fire".
Hello @Davy,

I am not a Universalist: and I do not know to what, 'idea', you are referring.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Davy

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Hello @Davy,

I am not a Universalist: and I do not know to what, 'idea', you are referring.
I suggest you go and find someone your own size to bully.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You said:
"You are correct to point out these very important warnings, but again, it is the 'inheritance' which is at stake and not 'life' (i.e., salvation)."

God's Word teaches - no Kingdom inheritance, then NO eternal life.

Universalism pretty much teaches the falsehood that everyone... is going to have life with God's future Kingdom. NO, the wicked and unbelieving will be cast into the future "lake of fire", along with the abode of hell and death (Rev.20).
 

marks

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You Revolutionaries who hate God's laws, take heed!!!
Seriously?

I hate God's Law? I'm a revolutionary?

That's like saying I hate Canadian Law. Some might. But my point is that, as a citizen of the US, living in the US, I'm simply not subject to Canadian Law. Nor am I subject to Jewish Law.

But that doesn't mean I'm a rebel, or that I hate God's Law, I'm to obey Jesus, being under the Law of Christ.

If you reject being under the Law of Christ in favor of imagining yourself under Jewish Law, then what does that say?

What a way to have a conversation.

Haters! Rebels!

much love?
 
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farouk

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Hello @dave

No one to my knowledge has said, in this thread, that we are not capable of sinning: and as you have pointed out there are warnings against doing so; however there is no suggestion that salvation can be lost.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
John's First Epistle has verses here that are very relevant.
 

Davy

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Seriously?

I hate God's Law? I'm a revolutionary?

If you hate God's laws, then you actually hate God.

Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you hate God's laws which are designed for His people so they might enjoy life while keeping the wicked under wraps, then you are a rebel and a reprobate against Him and His Son.

Rom 1:28-32
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
KJV


By the way, that is Apostle Paul speaking there about the reprobates and rebels. That is the company those who hate God's laws place themselves into.
 

bbyrd009

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And yet I say again per Apostle Paul... it was the old covenant that was done away with, NOT all of God's laws!

1 Tim 1:8-11
8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


If you don't understand those 1 Tim.1:8-9 verses especially, then you'll never understand what was actually done away by our Lord Jesus on His cross.

By believing the foolish doctrines of men that wrongly teach all of God's laws are now 'dead' that is to say man can do ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DO and it doesn't matter! That is CRIMINAL thinking. That is exactly what SATAN'S SERVANTS WANT! They would love all notion of the idea of law to just go away and be no more! That way the Devil and his servants can rule this world completely!!! No wonder there's so many Christian brethren that have fallen away and are in jails and prisons today!!!

So Sorry! GOD's LAW is still... manifest here on earth today! from The Father and His Son! Just NOT the old covenant portions of His laws which Jesus nailed to His cross.

You Revolutionaries who hate God's laws, take heed!!!
"this is that, and
that is this"

nice start though imo, ty.
is it so hard to contemplate the Decalogue as the minimum standard?
and of course you have your own ritual "laws" now, right
 

Stranger

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And yet I say again per Apostle Paul... it was the old covenant that was done away with, NOT all of God's laws!

1 Tim 1:8-11
8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


If you don't understand those 1 Tim.1:8-9 verses especially, then you'll never understand what was actually done away by our Lord Jesus on His cross.

By believing the foolish doctrines of men that wrongly teach all of God's laws are now 'dead' that is to say man can do ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DO and it doesn't matter! That is CRIMINAL thinking. That is exactly what SATAN'S SERVANTS WANT! They would love all notion of the idea of law to just go away and be no more! That way the Devil and his servants can rule this world completely!!! No wonder there's so many Christian brethren that have fallen away and are in jails and prisons today!!!

So Sorry! GOD's LAW is still... manifest here on earth today! from The Father and His Son! Just NOT the old covenant portions of His laws which Jesus nailed to His cross.

You Revolutionaries who hate God's laws, take heed!!!

The Law was the Old Covenant. The "ministration of death, written and engraven in stones" concerns the whole Law. (2 Cor. 3:7) It is "that which is done away" with. (2 Cor. 3:11)

You cannot separate the Law from the Old Covenant. Engraven in stones and done away.

Stranger
 

charity

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You said:
"You are correct to point out these very important warnings, but again, it is the 'inheritance' which is at stake and not 'life' (i.e., salvation)."

God's Word teaches - no Kingdom inheritance, then NO eternal life.

Universalism pretty much teaches the falsehood that everyone... is going to have life with God's future Kingdom. NO, the wicked and unbelieving will be cast into the future "lake of fire", along with the abode of hell and death (Rev.20).

Hello @Davy,

In reply #273, you quoted Ephesians 5:3-7, and highlighted verse 5, as a proof text for your belief that salvation can be lost. I responded in reply #275, by quoting that same Scripture, and pointed out that the wording is clear that what could be lost was 'inheritance', and not the gift of life.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person,
.. nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
.... hath any
inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
...... Let no man deceive you with vain words:
........ for because of these things cometh
.......... the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
............ Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
For ye were sometimes darkness,
.. but now are ye light in the Lord:
.... walk as children of light: ... '

(Ephesians 5:1-8)

Again I say, I am not a universalist. I believe that the way of reconciliation with God is open to all men: because of the sacrificial offering of Christ; however though open to all, not all will receive it, because not all will believe the good news of God concerning His Son, and come to God for salvation, on the basis of the blood that was shed on their behalf by the Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Davy

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Seriously?

I hate God's Law? I'm a revolutionary?

That's like saying I hate Canadian Law. Some might. But my point is that, as a citizen of the US, living in the US, I'm simply not subject to Canadian Law. Nor am I subject to Jewish Law.

But that doesn't mean I'm a rebel, or that I hate God's Law, I'm to obey Jesus, being under the Law of Christ.

If you reject being under the Law of Christ in favor of imagining yourself under Jewish Law, then what does that say?

What a way to have a conversation.

Haters! Rebels!

much love?

Like I showed from Apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 1, God's law is not dead. So every time someone makes idiotic statements against the existence of God's laws that are still in effect, they push anarchy, which is foolishness from the devil.
 

Davy

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The Law was the Old Covenant. The "ministration of death, written and engraven in stones" concerns the whole Law. (2 Cor. 3:7) It is "that which is done away" with. (2 Cor. 3:11)

You cannot separate the Law from the Old Covenant. Engraven in stones and done away.

Stranger

No, the law was NOT all about the old covenant. The first 5 commandments are about our relationship with God, and the last 5 commandments are about our civil relationship with each other. Jesus did not nail any of that to His cross. Nor did He do away with God's laws against murder, thefts, perjury, rape, etc., which those laws in Christian society are still enforced today. Paul covered many of them as part of New Testament doctrine; 1 Timothy 1 was just one NT example.

You cannot just bypass what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1 about God's laws, for he made that teaching part of Christian doctrine.

What you've been wrongly taught comes from some preacher's misunderstanding of this...

Rom 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
KJV


By loving our neighbor as ourself, we fulfill the law. But what happens if we hate our neighbor instead, and murder? We will be punished for it, because society's laws in the Christian west mostly originate from God's laws in the Old Testament Books. If you doubt this, research into the old Blue laws in the United States.
 

Davy

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Hello @Davy,

In reply #273, you quoted Ephesians 5:3-7, and highlighted verse 5, as a proof text for your belief that salvation can be lost. I responded in reply #275, by quoting that same Scripture, and pointed out that the wording is clear that what could be lost was 'inheritance', and not the gift of life.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person,
.. nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
.... hath any
inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
...... Let no man deceive you with vain words:
........ for because of these things cometh
.......... the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
............ Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
For ye were sometimes darkness,
.. but now are ye light in the Lord:
.... walk as children of light: ... '

(Ephesians 5:1-8)

Again I say, I am not a universalist. I believe that the way of reconciliation with God is open to all men: because of the sacrificial offering of Christ; however though open to all, not all will receive it, because not all will believe the good news of God concerning His Son, and come to God for salvation, on the basis of the blood that was shed on their behalf by the Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You may claim you're not pushing the idea of Universalism, but that's what you do when you infer that the unbelieving will still have life in God's future Kingdom. I'm not going to argue with you; if you don't know this basic fact from Scripture then pray to our Lord Jesus that He will help you with understanding it.
 

charity

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You may claim you're not pushing the idea of Universalism, but that's what you do when you infer that the unbelieving will still have life in God's future Kingdom. I'm not going to argue with you; if you don't know this basic fact from Scripture then pray to our Lord Jesus that He will help you with understanding it.
Hello @Davy,

I suggest that you look back over my entries, and show me where I have ever 'inferred' that the unbelieving will have life. You are putting words in my mouth, Davy, and I don't appreciate it. However, if I have inadvertently given that impression, I'm sorry.

* Eternal life is a gift from God, given to those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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farouk

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Hello @Davy,

I suggest that you look back over my entries, and show me where I have ever 'inferred' that the unbelieving will have life. You are putting words in my mouth, Davy, and I don't appreciate it. However, if I have inadvertently given that impression, I'm sorry.

* Eternal life is a gift from God, given to those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Romans 8.38-39 is clear, indeed... :) As are various verses in John's First Epistle... And indeed the promises of the Lord Jesus in John's Gospel...
 

Stranger

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And yet I say again per Apostle Paul... it was the old covenant that was done away with, NOT all of God's laws!

1 Tim 1:8-11
8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


If you don't understand those 1 Tim.1:8-9 verses especially, then you'll never understand what was actually done away by our Lord Jesus on His cross.

By believing the foolish doctrines of men that wrongly teach all of God's laws are now 'dead' that is to say man can do ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DO and it doesn't matter! That is CRIMINAL thinking. That is exactly what SATAN'S SERVANTS WANT! They would love all notion of the idea of law to just go away and be no more! That way the Devil and his servants can rule this world completely!!! No wonder there's so many Christian brethren that have fallen away and are in jails and prisons today!!!

So Sorry! GOD's LAW is still... manifest here on earth today! from The Father and His Son! Just NOT the old covenant portions of His laws which Jesus nailed to His cross.

You Revolutionaries who hate God's laws, take heed!!!

I understand (1 Tim. 1:8-9). The law is not made for the righteous. It is made for the law breakers. That doesn't mean Christians are under the Law. It doesn't affect (2 Cor. 3:7-11) that says the law has been done away.

The Law, everything that was etched in stone, has been done away. That doesn't mean it isn't true. It means it is not over the believer.

The Law is not made for the righteous. Are you righteous?

Stranger
 
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justbyfaith

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The law is written on the hearts and in the minds of those who are under the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10).

His love is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5) through faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14); which love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 john 1:6, Romans 8:4) and the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14). It is also not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18); thus faith without works is dead; while we are saved through faith alone apart from works (Romans 4:5-6).

If we bear the fruit of the Spirit, none of our behaviour will be in violation of any just law (Galatians 5:22-23, Psalms 94:20).

God has given us a righteousness apart from the law, that the law and the prophets nevertheless both testify to the fact that it is righteousness indeed! (Romans 3:21).
 

Davy

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I understand (1 Tim. 1:8-9). The law is not made for the righteous. It is made for the law breakers. That doesn't mean Christians are under the Law. It doesn't affect (2 Cor. 3:7-11) that says the law has been done away.

The Law, everything that was etched in stone, has been done away. That doesn't mean it isn't true. It means it is not over the believer.

The Law is not made for the righteous. Are you righteous?

Stranger

You have to take what Apostle Paul was teaching there as a whole, and all his Epistles as a whole. By the time you get to 2 Cor.6, he's reminding brethren to get rid of the old habits and cleanse the flesh and spirit unto holiness.

2 Cor 6:16-18
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
"I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be My sons and daughters", saith the Lord Almighty.
KJV

That in red is Apostle Paul quoting from the Old Testament Books (see Jeremiah 31:33 for example).

2 Corinthians 7
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
KJV


Thus it's not just about discerning the difference between the clean and unclean using the letter, it's about allowing The Holy Spirit to show us what is the clean and unclean, and urge us into holiness. And the Jeremiah 31:33 Scripture, which is quoted in Hebrews 10, reveals this is what The Holy Spirit will do for us under The New Covenant...

Heb 10:15-19
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
KJV


Notice that says God would put His laws in the hearts and minds per that "covenant", which is about The New Covenant Jesus Christ.

So it's not just some idea that God's laws no longer apply to us, but only to the wicked. We are supposed to be listening and following God and His Son by The Holy Spirit, showing us the difference. It certainly is not about some imagined libertine lifestyle which the devil has tricked many brethren into.
 

justbyfaith

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Consider that there is no condemnation for them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

As Christians, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

Also, consider the following:

Eph 2:15, Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16, And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
 

Stranger

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You have to take what Apostle Paul was teaching there as a whole, and all his Epistles as a whole. By the time you get to 2 Cor.6, he's reminding brethren to get rid of the old habits and cleanse the flesh and spirit unto holiness.

2 Cor 6:16-18
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
"I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be My sons and daughters", saith the Lord Almighty.
KJV

That in red is Apostle Paul quoting from the Old Testament Books (see Jeremiah 31:33 for example).

2 Corinthians 7
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
KJV


Thus it's not just about discerning the difference between the clean and unclean using the letter, it's about allowing The Holy Spirit to show us what is the clean and unclean, and urge us into holiness. And the Jeremiah 31:33 Scripture, which is quoted in Hebrews 10, reveals this is what The Holy Spirit will do for us under The New Covenant...

Heb 10:15-19
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
KJV


Notice that says God would put His laws in the hearts and minds per that "covenant", which is about The New Covenant Jesus Christ.

So it's not just some idea that God's laws no longer apply to us, but only to the wicked. We are supposed to be listening and following God and His Son by The Holy Spirit, showing us the difference. It certainly is not about some imagined libertine lifestyle which the devil has tricked many brethren into.

You didn't answer my question. Why? Are you righteous?

Stranger