Old and New Creations

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Netchaplain

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In creation, two elements came into being concerning man’s makeup: body and spirit. In Christianity, the body of man will eventually be recreated, but the spirit of man is already recreated, which manifests the omnipotence of the Spirit of God as its Creator. The first creation was intentionally temporary; the last or new creation—eternal! Thus, Christians have, not the life of the Spirit, but the “life” of Christ, from the power of the Spirit, which is the “life in Christ Jesus” (Rom 8:2). The life of the believer is Christ Himself (Col 3:4), and the power of this new Life in Christ is the Holy Spirit—who “shall abide with you forever” (Jhn 14:16; Rev 22:17).
NC​





Old and New Creations


Of the first creation we read, “all things were made by Him” (Jhn 1:3); and again, “all things were created by Him and for Him” (Col 1:16). Not so the second creation, for the formula of this is “in Me” (Jhn 15:4). This is “the creation of God” (Rev 3:14) with Christ as its Head, as the first was by Christ with Adam as its head. Accordingly, in Ephesians we are said to be God’s “workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has before prepared that we should walk in them” (Eph 2:10). So that this new creation (new creature - 2Co 5:17; Gal 6:15—NC), and the works morally suited in character to it, are as truly as the first creation divinely formed and prepared. And, what is of deepest moment, they are altogether and exclusively in the Lord Jesus in every respect.

Thus we are chosen in the Lord Jesus, have redemption in Him; are made nigh, sealed, blessed, accepted, and seated in Him, in “whom also we have obtained an inheritance” (Eph 1:11; Heb 9:15 ), etc. In the same Epistle too, we read, “Having put on the new man, renewed into full knowledge, according to the image of Him that has created him,” wherein there is neither Greek nor Jew . . . but Christ is all, and in all” (Col 3:10, 11). Clearly we see here the righteous title of the Lord Jesus as sovereign Head of the new creation, and the same scriptures constitute our title-deeds to this inheritance in Him, in whom all its moral characteristics find full and blessed display.

In Romans 6:11 we get the first mention (not only the concept but also the direct wording—NC) of this new ground. “Likewise, reckon ye also yourself to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God in Jesus Christ our Lord.” So in verse 23, “the wages of sin is death”—this is the old creation—“but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”—this is the new creation. For, be it observed, it is not only eternal life, but in “Christ Jesus our Lord,” which establishes it as this new, positive order of blessing which is ours in union with Him as “the beginning of the creation of God” (could probably mean “beginning of the new creation”—NC) and which is perfectly exemplified only in the moral beauty of His own character—“the fruit of the Spirit” (who is the Spirit of the Father and of Christ - Rom 8:9; 1Pe 1:11; Phl 1:19—NC).

Then, in Romans Eight, it is “no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,” making it clear our deliverance judicially the curse of the first creation. In Adam is condemnation, in Christ Jesus, none; because in the reckoning of faith we have died with Him out of the creation to which condemnation belonged, and for those who are His it is “irrevocably” abolished (Rom 11:29). “Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation.” Hence our present portion is that we are actually upon virgin soil, as it were, of a new creation—“in Christ, a new creation” (first One to possess the eternal body—NC).

“Old things are passed away”; this was indispensable, for it is impossible that we should have at the same time a standing in Adam to answer for ourselves (law), and a standing in the Lord Jesus who has answered for us (grace). It is the total relegation, morally, for faith of the former and abrogated creation, now no longer acknowledged, and carrying with it a final repudiation of the flesh and its activities.

What a thorough, what a perfect, deliverance this is! In fine, it is God’s solution for us of every problem as to our relation morally to man’s world. I have died in the death of Christ. As the reckoning of faith, and in the same reckoning, the “old things”, in which the life of the first man found gratification, “have passed away”; be it the world, with its: lust of the flesh, lust of the eye, and pride of life; or be it the flesh itself, with all its nameless variety of ways of working; or be it man’s religiousness, or will-worship (Col 2:23); all that God traces to that parent root of self-will, or lawlessness, He in His supremacy over evil, assures us that all has “passed away,” as between us and Himself.

- Unknown
 
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marks

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for it is impossible that we should have at the same time a standing in Adam to answer for ourselves (law), and a standing in the Lord Jesus who has answered for us (grace).

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Much love!
 

Davy

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1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV



Believing that we are going to get new flesh bodies is an old Jewish doctrine. They didn't understand the resurrection in Old Testament times, and most of them still don't today.
 
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Netchaplain

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A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Much love!
Hi and thanks for the comment! I would like to share this: "The word here used, δίψυχος dipsuchosoccurs only here and in James 4:8. It means, properly, one who has two souls; then one who is wavering or inconstant. It is applicable to a man who has no settled principles; who is controlled by passion; who is influenced by popular feeling; who is now inclined to one opinion or course of conduct, and now to another." Albert Barnes (1798-1870)
James 1 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible
 

Netchaplain

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1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV



Believing that we are going to get new flesh bodies is an old Jewish doctrine. They didn't understand the resurrection in Old Testament times, and most of them still don't today.
Hi, and appreciate your comment, but it's my understanding that the Lord declared that His new eternal body is flesh and bones, as ye see Me have (Luk 24:39). Blessings!
 

marks

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Hi and thanks for the comment! I would like to share this: "The word here used, δίψυχος dipsuchosoccurs only here and in James 4:8. It means, properly, one who has two souls; then one who is wavering or inconstant. It is applicable to a man who has no settled principles; who is controlled by passion; who is influenced by popular feeling; who is now inclined to one opinion or course of conduct, and now to another." Albert Barnes (1798-1870)
James 1 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

Thank you for pointing this out!

Wavering between two souls, that's very expressive!

Much love!
 

bbyrd009

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1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV



Believing that we are going to get new flesh bodies is an old Jewish doctrine. They didn't understand the resurrection in Old Testament times, and most of them still don't today.
"flesh and blood cannot inherit" is surely a clever way to say "flesh and blood are all that can possibly inherit, only via the spirit, not the flesh"
 

bbyrd009

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Hi and thanks for the comment! I would like to share this: "The word here used, δίψυχος dipsuchosoccurs only here and in James 4:8. It means, properly, one who has two souls; then one who is wavering or inconstant. It is applicable to a man who has no settled principles; who is controlled by passion; who is influenced by popular feeling; who is now inclined to one opinion or course of conduct, and now to another." Albert Barnes (1798-1870)
James 1 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible
like believers who imagine that they will get another life after they have died maybe?
despite the ample Scriptural evidence?
the body of man will eventually be recreated
so you say
 

Netchaplain

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Hi and appreciate what you mean, but the newly created body is in reference to the resurrection (which applies only to the body that dies, not the spirit that cannot die). Both the blessed and the damned will be resurrected with indestructible bodies (Jhn 5:29).

God bless!
 
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Davy

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Hi, and appreciate your comment, but it's my understanding that the Lord declared that His new eternal body is flesh and bones, as ye see Me have (Luk 24:39). Blessings!

Our Lord Jesus' flesh body was transfigured and kept the marks of His crucifixion. Remember Genesis 19 about the two angels the sodomites wanted to have sex with. Lot prepared food for the angels and they did eat. So the body of that other dimension has substance too, we simply don't know of what yet today. And our Lord Jesus did say those of the resurrection are as the angels of God in heaven. He was talking about the resurrection state, as angels don't marry either. Apostle Paul also made it clear that the resurrection body is not a flesh and bones body, but a "spiritual body". So you have all these Scripture examples that the future resurrection is not one of literal flesh.
 

Netchaplain

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Our Lord Jesus' flesh body was transfigured and kept the marks of His crucifixion. Remember Genesis 19 about the two angels the sodomites wanted to have sex with. Lot prepared food for the angels and they did eat. So the body of that other dimension has substance too, we simply don't know of what yet today. And our Lord Jesus did say those of the resurrection are as the angels of God in heaven. He was talking about the resurrection state, as angels don't marry either. Apostle Paul also made it clear that the resurrection body is not a flesh and bones body, but a "spiritual body". So you have all these Scripture examples that the future resurrection is not one of literal flesh.
Hi, and you make good points. My belief is that Christ will forever have the body He had when He told Thomas to touch Him (Luk 24:39). The spirit does not die but continues on, so resurrection has only to do with the body, which is like the one we now have, but incorruptible (indestructible).
 
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Davy

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Hi, and you make good points. My belief is that Christ will forever have the body He had when He told Thomas to touch Him (Luk 24:39). The spirit does not die but continues on, so resurrection has only to do with the body, which is like the one we now have, but incorruptible (indestructible).

The following verses reveal that flesh is not... what the future resurrection will be.

Eccl 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.
KJV

Back in the OT, we were shown the difference between our flesh and our spirit that is inside our flesh. Even though that above didn't mention our soul (i.e, person), it is included with that spirit. They are never separated. But our flesh can be separated from our spirit and soul. Jesus shows this below...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV


The meaning for "hell" (geena) there is the "lake of fire", not the abode of hell.

1 Cor 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV

Our flesh is the "natural body" Apostle Paul was speaking of there. The "spiritual body" is not a body of flesh and bones.

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


As we have worn the image of the earthly, which is a flesh body outward form, we shall also wear the image of the heavenly outward body form, which is not of flesh and bones. Paul makes it plain. The idea you're preaching is from Jewish traditions of men and does not align with what Apostle Paul taught, nor what God's Word teaches.
 

Netchaplain

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Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
I like how you present why you believe what you believe, but it's my understanding (and all Bible commentators) that the physical body portrayed in this passage is just not the same as the "body that shall be" (1Co 15:37); this one corruptible (destructible); the new body incorruptible (indestructible - 1Co 15:53). Hence God "shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body (Phl 3:21); which will be done as God "shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit" (Rom 8:11), thus bringing about the promise concerning "the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23).

We never seen Scripture refer to a spirit as a body, and the phrase "spiritual body" (1Co 15:44) does not mean spirit body. The terms spirit and body never have the same reference or used together, but rather makes it clear they are not the same thing, e.g. "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I myself: handle Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have" (Luk 24:39).

Of course we know it's okay to be different in understanding what we believe, and a good plus is that regardless of who's right or wrong, presenting the scriptures in our sharing increases repeated exposure to the knowledge of the Word, which is always good and eventually shows us the truths of issues we seek to understand, if we continue in Word study.

God bless friend in Christ!
 
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Davy

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I like how you present why you believe what you believe, but it's my understanding (and all Bible commentators) that the physical body portrayed in this passage is just not the same as the "body that shall be" (1Co 15:37); this one corruptible (destructible); the new body incorruptible (indestructible - 1Co 15:53). Hence God "shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body (Phl 3:21); which will be done as God "shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit" (Rom 8:11), thus bringing about the promise concerning "the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23).

1 Cor.15:53 is covering 4 different conditions per the Greek. Those are 4 different Greek words. Our Lord Jesus' flesh body was transfigured, ours won't be, but will simply be cast off which is what Paul's 'changed' at the twinkling of an eye is about.

The Romans 8:11 "mortal" is about a liable to die soul, not a flesh body. In 1 Cor.15:53, the 3rd term is "this mortal" and is the same Greek word as in Rom.8:11. All alive on earth will be changed to the resurrection body which Paul declared as a "spiritual body". But not all will put on immortality through Christ Jesus. Just as in today's world, there are many souls that are still spiritually dead inside their flesh bodies, being without Faith on Jesus Christ, likewise there will be those of the resurrection of damnation still with liable to die mortal souls during Christ's future thousand years reign. Their souls will still be in a 'mortal' state. Ours will not be.

1 Cor.15:53 = "corruption" (perishable flesh) must put on "incorruption" (spiritual body) AND... "this mortal" (liable to die soul) must put on "immortality" (endless eternal life, via Christ Jesus). It's about TWO changes, not just one. The unsaved will only go through the first change at Christ's return.


We never seen Scripture refer to a spirit as a body, and the phrase "spiritual body" (1Co 15:44) does not mean spirit body. The terms spirit and body never have the same reference or used together, but rather makes it clear they are not the same thing, e.g. "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I myself: handle Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have" (Luk 24:39).

By that you directly contradict Apostle Paul. I'll go with what Apostle Paul said instead of following Jewish traditions:

1 Cor 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a
spiritual body (pneumatikos soma). There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV


A body outward image is exactly... the idea Apostle Paul was speaking of there. There is one body for this earthly dimension, and then there is another type body for the heavenly dimension. Both are bodies, outward images, just for two different dimensions of existence. And God's Word reveals only 2 different dimensions of existence.

Mark 12:25
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
KJV





Of course we know it's okay to be different in understanding what we believe, and a good plus is that regardless of who's right or wrong, presenting the scriptures in our sharing increases repeated exposure to the knowledge of the Word, which is always good and eventually shows us the truths of issues we seek to understand, if we continue in Word study.

God bless friend in Christ!

The only difference here between you and I is that I'm keeping to God's Word as written in the above.
 

Netchaplain

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The only difference here between you and I is that I'm keeping to God's Word as written in the above.
I believe we'll both be in difference of understanding concerning this subject, and both will continue to keep with what we understand to be God's Word, and as we continue studying it He will continue to reveal it's understanding to us. God bless!
 

Davy

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I believe we'll both be in difference of understanding concerning this subject, and both will continue to keep with what we understand to be God's Word, and as we continue studying it He will continue to reveal it's understanding to us. God bless!

I have already studied it in-depth. There are more Scripture examples about it I didn't cover, like 2 Cor.5. Putting them all together makes the matter simple. But the Eccl.12:5-7 Scripture gave a huge revelation that most just pass over, i.e., the "silver cord". It mentioned that if that "silver cord" is severed, then our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, and our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. That strongly confirms that those two parts are two different and separate things. Our Lord Jesus showed this also in John 3 when He said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

That our flesh and our spirit are two separate and different operations shouldn't be a surprise, because we are shown about two different dimensions of existence in God's Word. All Christians understand that, otherwise they don't really believe God exists. This is about the very matter involving proof of God's existence as shown in Hebrews 11:3...

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV


That verse is basically saying that we know God framed the worlds, simply because material matter did not create itself. It confirms the law of physics that material matter cannot be created nor destroyed, but only change its form. It also confirms that something not of material matter created matter. That something is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. It is declaring the existence of two different dimensions of existence, that of flesh (or material matter) vs. Spirit, because we are told by Jesus that God is a Spirit in John 4.