Gather 'Round Peter

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ScottA

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No because that would mean that Jesus is a liar.
He guaranteed that the gates of Hell would NOT prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18).
Your definition of "prevail" is sorely naive...like calling the cross failure.

You may as well say, His strength is made perfect by force.

But, no, His "strength is made prefect in weakness"...and you are so mislead and lacking in understanding.
 

Webers_Home

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1Pet 2:1-3 . . Lay aside all hypocrisy

The Greek word for "hypocrisy" is hupokrisis (hoop-ok'-ree-sis) which is a
mite ambiguous. It basically refers to acting under a feigned part.

Not all hypocrisy is bad; quite a few people earn an honest living by
accepting parts in movies and plays. That we can live with.

But hypocrisy in religion is insufferable; for example Mark 12:13-15, which
reads like this:

"Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him
in his words. They came to him and said: Teacher, we know you are a man
of integrity. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who
they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it
right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? Should we pay or shouldn't we? But
Jesus knew their hypocrisy."

Their inquiry was sensible and practical; but it was based upon a hidden
agenda. They didn't care one whit about the taxes; they were only looking
for a legitimate excuse to have Jesus arrested and put away where he could
no longer influence public opinion.

Hypocrisy is also exemplified in double standards, for example Luke 6:41-42
and Matt 23:2-4

"And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not
notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother:
Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye, when you yourself do
not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out
of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in
your brother's eye."

"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of
Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do
according to their deeds; for they say things, and do not do them. And they
tie up heavy loads, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves
are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger."
_
 

BreadOfLife

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Your definition of "prevail" is sorely naive...like calling the cross failure.

You may as well say, His strength is made perfect by force.

But, no, His "strength is made prefect in weakness"...and you are so mislead and lacking in understanding.
There is nothing “mysterious” or perplexing about the word “Prevail”.
It is defined as:
1) prove more powerful than opposing forces;
2) to be victorious.


For Christ’s Church to have fizzled out in 1500 years and to have been replaced by something else - means that something else prevailed. Christ guaranteed that this would NOT happen (Matt. 16:18).

The Christ YOU’VE invented for yourself might indulge in lying – but NOT the Christ of Scripture.
 

BreadOfLife

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1Pet 2:1-3 . . Lay aside all malice

The seven examples of malice listed in post No.7 are pretty good, but I
would certainly include spite were it my list. Webster's defines it as petty ill
will or hatred with the disposition to irritate, annoy, or thwart; i.e. just plain
meanness.

A companion to spite is persecution; from the Greek word dioko (dee-o'-ko)
which means to pursue; i.e. to hound, to harass. In other words; a
persecuting personality is one whose mission in life is to ruin somebody's
day at every opportunity; and they are pretty good at finding ways to do it.

Heaven is described in the Bible as a place of peace. I think it goes without
saying that malicious people cannot be allowed to go there because they
would soon turn heaven into a hellish world like they've made the Earth.
_
After reading your anti-Catholic/anti-Christ diatribes, I couldn't agree with you more . . .
 
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Webers_Home

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1Pet 2:1 . . Lay aside all envy

Webster's defines envy as painful or resentful awareness of an advantage
enjoyed by another, coupled with a desire to possess the same advantage

There are musicians that I greatly admire for their talent and their creativity.
But I don't hate them for it; no, I truly love their work, i.e. I'm a fan rather
than a rival. For example; famed sessions musician Carol Kaye can lay down
smooth jazz lines with an electric bass using nothing more than a flat
guitar pick. I wish I could do what Carol does, and I would sincerely like for
her to continue playing and teaching forever.

But when admiration is mixed with pain and resentment, it can become ugly
and extremely dangerous.

For example, it was envy that motivated Cain to murder his kid brother, and
it was envy that motivated Joseph's brothers to sell him into slavery, and it
was envy that motivated Jesus' opponents to have him arrested and put to
death.

People prone to envy share a very common denominator: they simply must
be either equal to, or better than, others. It's that simple. And if they cannot
be equal to, or better than others, then nothing would make them happier
than to see those others failed, maimed, silenced, disfigured, dishonored,
disgraced, humiliated, handicapped for life and/or deceased.
_
 

Webers_Home

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1Pet 2:1. .Lay aside all evil speaking;

The Greek word for "evil speaking" is katalalia (kat-al-al-ee'-ah) which
basically means defamation; defined by Webster's as the act of
communicating false statements about a person that injures their reputation.

Talking about someone behind their back counts as defamation only when
the statements are untrue; especially if the statements are deliberately
untrue and calculated to assassinate someone's character and/or question
their good name.


NOTE: As newborn infants, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may
grow thereby. (1Pet 2:2)

When Christians neglect to study Peter's epistles to learn what is, and what
is not, appropriate behavior for Christ's followers, they are certain to end up
stunting their spiritual growth; and quite naturally retain and practice all five
of the ugly behaviors listed in my last few posts; viz: malice, deceit,
hypocrisy, envy, and evil speaking.
_
 

Webers_Home

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1Pet 2:21-24 . . Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that
you should follow His steps . . who, when he was reviled, did not revile in
return

There's a couple of Greek words translated "revile" in that passage. The first
is loidoreo (loy-dor-eh'-o) which means to reproach, i.e. vilify; in other
words: insult; defined by Webster's as to treat with insolence, indignity, or
contempt.

The second word is antiloidoreo (an-tee-loy-dor-eh'-o) which means to rail in
reply; i.e. toxic rejoinders.

What we're looking at is the apostle Peter testifying to Christ's practicing
what he preached about turning the other cheek; which some apparently
seem to honestly believe has gone out of vogue.
_
 

BreadOfLife

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When Christians neglect to study Peter's epistles to learn what is, and what is not, appropriate behavior for Christ's followers, they are certain to end up stunting their spiritual growth; and quite naturally retain and practice all five of the ugly behaviors listed in my last few posts; viz: malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and evil speaking._
You mean like going on an obsessive mission to denigrate Christ's Church because of your own disgruntled bitterness towards it?

It might interest you to know that Christ also rebuked hypocrites (Matt. 6:5, 23:13, Mark 7:6) . . .
 

Webers_Home

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1Pet 1:22b . . See that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

The Greek word translated "love" in that passage is agapao (ag-ap-ah'-o)
which is actually a very easy love to practice because it doesn't consist of
things like affection and/or sentiment; which are components of the other
love in the New Testament translated from the Greek word phileo (fil-eh'-o).

Agapao is impersonal; commonly expressed in things like charity, kindness,
sympathy, lenience, and tolerance; viz: agapao isn't expressed by liking
people; rather, it's expressed by being nice to people, i.e. civil; defined by
Webster's as adequate in courtesy and politeness: mannerly.

Phileo, on the other hand, is personal and not as common as agapao
because phileo is felt rather than expressed; viz: phileo refers to emotional
attachments.

An excellent contrast between the two loves is seen by comparing John 3:16
and John 16:27.

In the first; God is shown sympathetic.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that
whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

In the latter, God is shown affectionate.

"The Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed
that I came from God."

Obtaining God's sympathy is very easy because that's on Him; whereas
winning His affections is not so easy because that's on us.

"If you obey my commands, you will abide in my love, just as I have obeyed
my Father's commands and abide in His love." (John 15:10)

Anyway; 1Pet 1:22b only requires Christians to be civil, which I'm convinced
is within every Christian's capabilities; even for Christians whose sensitivities
are those of a catcher's mitt or a wooden nickel.

A pure fervent heart refers to taking Peter's requirement seriously enough to
make a conscientious effort to comply with it; viz: every Christian, even the
bi-polar ones, really ought to be doing their level best to be good people not
just some of the time, nor even most of the time; but all the time— at the
very least among themselves and with each other.
_
 

BreadOfLife

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1Pet 1:22b . . See that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

The Greek word translated "love" in that passage is agapao (ag-ap-ah'-o)
which is actually a very easy love to practice because it doesn't consist of
things like affection and/or sentiment; which are components of the other love in the New Testament translated from the Greek word
phileo (fil-eh'-o).

Agapao is impersonal; commonly expressed in things like charity, kindness,
sympathy, lenience, and tolerance; viz: agapao isn't expressed by liking
people; rather, it's expressed by being nice to people, i.e. civil; defined by Webster's as adequate in courtesy and politeness: mannerly.

Phileo, on the other hand, is personal and not as common as agapao
because phileo is felt rather than expressed; viz: phileo refers to emotional
attachments.

An excellent contrast between the two loves is seen by comparing John 3:16
and John 16:27.

In the first; God is shown sympathetic.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that
whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

In the latter, God is shown affectionate.

"The Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed
that I came from God."

Obtaining God's sympathy is very easy because that's on Him; whereasI coulsn
winning His affections is not so easy because that's on us.

"If you obey my commands, you will abide in my love, just as I have obeyedc
my Father's commands and abide in His love." (John 15:10)

Anyway; 1Pet 1:22b only requires Christians to be civil, which I'm convinced
is within every Christian's capabilities; even for Christians whose sensitivities are those of a catcher's mitt or a wooden nickel.

A pure fervent heart refers to taking Peter's requirement seriously enough to
make a conscientious effort to comply with it; viz: every Christian, even the bi-polar ones, really ought to be doing their level best to be good people not just some of the time, nor even most of the time; but all the time— at the very least among themselves and with each other._
I couldn't agree with you more.
It's unfortunate that you don't practice what you preach.

Your utter hatred for all things Catholic is a dangerous obsession that pretty much contradicts everything you just posted . . .
 

Webers_Home

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1Pet 2:17a . . Honor all men.

The Greek word translated "honor" is timao (tim-ah'-o) which basically
means to prize, i.e. fix a valuation upon and/or to revere

The first place that timao shows up in the New Testament is Matt 15:4 which
reads:

"God said: Honor your father and mother."

Right after the Flood, God outlawed murder; and the reason given for the
ban was not because murder is necessarily wrong, but because people are
made in the likeness of God. (Gen 9:5-6)

James criticizes the use of language that expresses a wish that someone be
sent to hell. The reason given is not because that sort of language is
necessarily wrong, but because people were made in the likeness of God.
(Jas 3:8-9)

In other words; murder and cursing dishonors the likeness of God, and by
extension dishonors God too.

From that I gather that failure to treat everyone with dignity-- regardless of
age, race, or gender --not only dishonors men but by extension also
dishonors God in whose likeness everyone was made.


FAQ: Does that mean even serial killers, mass murderers, and monsters like
Osama Bin Laden, Robert Mugabe, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Saddam
Hussein, and crooks like Al Capone and Bernie Madoff have to be treated
humanely and with dignity the same as everyone else?


A: Yes, absolutely because the honor that Peter is talking about doesn't have
to be earned, merited or otherwise deserved.

Take for example Lev 19:32 which reads like this:

"Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly and revere
your God. I am The Lord"

The honor required for senior citizens doesn't have to be earned, merited or
otherwise deserved. The only requirement is age; and failure to dignify
senior citizens is all the same as failure to dignify God.


NOTE: You can tell a lot about people by the way they treat senior citizens.
Now that I myself am old and gray-haired, I'm sensitive to things like that.
_
 
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BreadOfLife

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1Pet 2:17a . . Honor all men.

The Greek word translated "honor" is timao (tim-ah'-o) which basically
means to prize, i.e. fix a valuation upon and/or to revere

The first place that timao shows up in the New Testament is Matt 15:4 which
reads:

"God said: Honor your father and mother."

Right after the Flood, God outlawed murder; and the reason given for the
ban was not because murder is necessarily wrong, but because people are
made in the likeness of God. (Gen 9:5-6)

James criticizes the use of language that expresses a wish that someone be
sent to hell. The reason given is not because that sort of language is
necessarily wrong, but because people were made in the likeness of God.
(Jas 3:8-9)

In other words; murder and cursing dishonors the likeness of God, and by
extension dishonors God too.

From that I gather that failure to treat everyone with dignity-- regardless of
age, race, or gender --not only dishonors men but by extension also
dishonors God in whose likeness everyone was made.


FAQ: Does that mean even serial killers, mass murderers, and monsters like
Osama Bin Laden, Robert Mugabe, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Saddam
Hussein, and crooks like Al Capone and Bernie Madoff have to be treated
humanely and with dignity the same as everyone else?


A: Yes, absolutely because the honor that Peter is talking about doesn't have
to be earned, merited or otherwise deserved.

Take for example Lev 19:32 which reads like this:

"Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly and revere
your God. I am The Lord"

The honor required for senior citizens doesn't have to be earned, merited or
otherwise deserved. The only requirement is age; and failure to dignify
senior citizens is all the same as failure to dignify God.


NOTE: You can tell a lot about people by the way they treat senior citizens.
Now that I myself am old and gray-haired, I'm sensitive to things like that.
_
Then, as an “old, grey-haired” man, you should have the knowledge and wisdom to understand that God does not look kindly on hypocrites.
Accusing people of precisely what YOU are doing is something that Christ condemned . . .

Matt. 7:1-2
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Not very wise for an “old, grey-haired” man . . .
 

ScottA

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There is nothing “mysterious” or perplexing about the word “Prevail”.
It is defined as:
1) prove more powerful than opposing forces;
2) to be victorious.


For Christ’s Church to have fizzled out in 1500 years and to have been replaced by something else - means that something else prevailed. Christ guaranteed that this would NOT happen (Matt. 16:18).

The Christ YOU’VE invented for yourself might indulge in lying – but NOT the Christ of Scripture.
Get over yourself.

(and your identity with the flesh and the world, and their foes. Neither has prevailed).

The defining point of Christ's church was given by Christ when He made that claim in Matthew 16 was not by a succession of men, but by the spirit of the Father.

Thus, like the cross, the enemy thinking he has won, has actually lost by the same evil spirit that overtakes men; while in doing so they unknowingly gave the victory over to God by their own shameful acts. The precedence is the cross, and the same spirit will deny both victories.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Get over yourself.

(and your identity with the flesh and the world, and their foes. Neither has prevailed).

The defining point of Christ's church was given by Christ when He made that claim in Matthew 16, was not by a succession of men, but by the spirit of the Father.

Thus, like the cross, then enemy thinking it has won, has lost by the same evil spirit that overtakes men; while in doing so they unknowingly gave the victory over to God by their own shameful acts. The precedence in the cross, and the same spirit will deny both victories.
As usual - your arguments don’t make any sense.

I believe that you argue just for the sake of arguing and nothing more.

Suffice it to say – nothing has ever prevailed against Christ’s Church – and never will.
That’s HIS promise (Matt. 16:18) . . .
 

ScottA

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As usual - your arguments don’t make any sense.

I believe that you argue just for the sake of arguing and nothing more.

Suffice it to say – nothing has ever prevailed against Christ’s Church – and never will.
That’s HIS promise (Matt. 16:18) . . .
One may just as well have asked the Jews, prior to Christ's crucifixion, if what He did made sense.

It doesn't make sense to you, just like it didn't make sense to the Jews during the time of Christ's first coming. But this is now the time of His coming again in spirit...and you are one of the jeering crowd--you the sons of fathers, yelling, “Not this Man, but Barabbas!

It is written.
 

Webers_Home

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1Pet 2:17 . . Fear God, honor the king.

Webster's defines kings as as 1) monarchs, 2) paramount chiefs and/or 3)
one that holds a preeminent position; e.g. monarchs, sovereigns, presidents,
prime ministers, czars, chairmen, etc.

There is currently throughout America a wave of hate, hysteria, and
disrespect for the U.S. President the intensity of which is unlike anything I've
ever seen in my 75 years on this planet. I should hope that none of Christ's
followers get caught up in it.

Christians don't have to particularly like Mr. Trump as a person, but we do
have to render him the dignity and the respect that a president's position
has been given by God. Failure to do so not only fails to comply with the
apostle Peter's instructions, but also fails to fear God.

Prov 24:21 . . My son, fear The Lord and the king; have nothing to do with
those who hate them.
_
 
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Webers_Home

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1Pet 2:17 . . Love the brotherhood.

The Greek word translated "brotherhood" is adelphotes (ad-el-fot'-ace)
which appears in only two places in the entire New Testament; both are in
the apostle Peter's epistles: one here and the other in 1Pet 5:9.

It's a curious word because it essentially refers to a fraternity; defined by
Webster's as a group of people associated or formally organized for a
common purpose, interest, or pleasure; i.e. persons of the same class,
profession, character, or tastes: for example leagues, guilds, societies, and
trade unions.

"We're all in this together" pretty much sums up adelphotes; for example
1Pet 5:8-9 which reads:

"Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a
roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the
faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are
undergoing the same kind of sufferings."

But now; exactly who is in this frat about which Peter speaks? Well, the
apostle identifies them by his greeting in 1Pet 1:1-2 which reads:

"To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus,
Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to
the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the
Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood"

Just to be on the safe side, assume that Peter's greeting applies to anyone
and everyone calling themselves a Christian regardless of their
denominational affiliation. This can be done very easily just by following his
instructions to honor all men. (see post No.31)

One thing to our advantage is that the Greek word for "love" in 1Pet 2:17 is
impersonal, viz: it doesn't require affection, it only requires that we be
humane, e.g. civil, courteous, friendly, peaceable, hospitable, sympathetic,
tolerant, lenient, forgiving, charitable, and generous. In other words; we
don't actually have to like our fellow Christians, we only have to allow them
the dignity that the image and likeness of God deserves.
_
 

BreadOfLife

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One may just as well have asked the Jews, prior to Christ's crucifixion, if what He did made sense.

It doesn't make sense to you, just like it didn't make sense to the Jews during the time of Christ's first coming. But this is now the time of His coming again in spirit...and you are one of the jeering crowd--you the sons of fathers, yelling, “Not this Man, but Barabbas!

It is written.
Once again proving my point that you simply argue for the sake of arguing and NOT because you have a point to make about the topic.

“Barabbas”, indeed . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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1Pet 2:17 . . Love the brotherhood.

The Greek word translated "brotherhood" is adelphotes (ad-el-fot'-ace)
which appears in only two places in the entire New Testament; both are in
the apostle Peter's epistles: one here and the other in 1Pet 5:9.

It's a curious word because it essentially refers to a fraternity; defined by
Webster's as a group of people associated or formally organized for a
common purpose, interest, or pleasure; i.e. persons of the same class,
profession, character, or tastes: for example leagues, guilds, societies, and
trade unions.

"We're all in this together" pretty much sums up adelphotes; for example
1Pet 5:8-9 which reads:

"Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a
roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the
faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are
undergoing the same kind of sufferings."

But now; exactly who is in this frat about which Peter speaks? Well, the
apostle identifies them by his greeting in 1Pet 1:1-2 which reads:

"To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus,
Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to
the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the
Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood"

Just to be on the safe side, assume that Peter's greeting applies to anyone
and everyone calling themselves a Christian regardless of their
denominational affiliation. This can be done very easily just by following his
instructions to honor all men. (see post No.31)

One thing to our advantage is that the Greek word for "love" in 1Pet 2:17 is
impersonal, viz: it doesn't require affection, it only requires that we be
humane, e.g. civil, courteous, friendly, peaceable, hospitable, sympathetic,
tolerant, lenient, forgiving, charitable, and generous. In other words; we
don't actually have to like our fellow Christians, we only have to allow them
the dignity that the image and likeness of God deserves.
_
Then perhaps you should practice what you preach . . .