Religious but lost:

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justbyfaith

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As to 1 Cor. 6:11 - I'm not sure why you posted this as some sort of "proof text" for Sola Fide. It doesn't support this false doctrine at ALL.
I did not quote it in support of sola fide per se...but rather to point out that salvation can indeed be a one-time, slam-dunk event in a person's life.
 

BreadOfLife

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Concerning eternal security; it is perfectly compatible with the holiness of the believer, see 1 John 3:6 as compared to 1 John 2:17...he who does the will of God abideth for ever...now, how long is that? Can it ever come to an end?

As for the rest of your post, Titus 3:5 is clear...regeneration is not through works of righteousness which we have done.

If I give $5 to the poor...or even $5,000,000...that is not going to produce within me the work of the Holy Spirit that we call regeneration.

Such a thing is through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Jesus did indeed say, Ye must be born again.

If this is accomplished through works, then a bunch of scripture is invalid.

I suggest you meditate on the following:

Romans 4:1-8,

Ephesians 2:8-9,

Romans 11:5-6 (kjv),

Titus 3:4-7.

Now, when we are truly born again, it will produce good works in our lives...2 Corinthians 5:17 is clear that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old has gone; behold, all things are become new!

The love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart through the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5) and we receive the Holy Spirit through faith (Galatians 3:14). This love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4) and is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14). It is also not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). Thus faith without works is dead.

However, it should be clear that we obtain this love through simple faith in Christ and what He did for us on the Cross...if we add works to this we are mixing something in that will corrupt the whole...for if we trust in our works to save us, we will not be saved. Our only hope is in that Christ died for us and thereby brought forgiveness for all of our sins.

As a result of being forgiven much, we love Him much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5). (And this will produce good works, for real love is always in deed and in truth)...

But our salvation is solely and completely through faith in Christ's finished work on the hill called Calvary.
From the top down again . . .

First of all - Eternal Security is a false doctrine that is not only NOT supported by Scripture but condemned:
Romans 11:22

“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person . . .

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5

He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.


"Epignosis" is where your Eternal Security doctrine collapses.
Only truly, born again, regenerated people have an Epignosis of Christ.


As for faith and works - you keep missing the point.
NOBODY is saying that works alone save us or that works alone regenerate us. Belief alone doesn't save you either.
Faith without works is DEAD (James 2:14-26).
Works without belief is ALSO dead.
Belief and works are dead if that faith doesn't WORK in love (1 Cor 13:1-3).

TRUE Faith = Belief + Obedience.
Obedience = Works done in Love.


DEMONS have "faith alone" (James 2:19) - but they don't have obedience . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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I did not quote it in support of sola fide per se...but rather to point out that salvation can indeed be a one-time, slam-dunk event in a person's life.
Yes, if they drop dead at that moment.
Otherwise - they need to cooperate with God's grace by obedience and endurance in faith for however long they live.
 
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Davy

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I have made the statement "Satan wants to make us religious but lost" and I now want to expand this idea.

It is a fact that some of the "Christian Jews" wanted the Gentile Christians to become Jewish by doing the things that the Jews did ""under the law."" This was the big problem that was discussed in Acts 13:1-2, Acts 15:1-20. It was an attempt to get Christians back under the law, which by the way, no one could keep. It was the subject of Acts 21:20-21 as well.

But that did not end the attempts of the Judaizers from continuing their assault on the Gentile believers. Most all of Paul's writings are in response to those that would add the Jewish law requirements to his gospel of the grace of God. Galatians 3:1-10 is just one example.

I want to tell you three reasons why I want to post this article.

My wife, and I, went on a cruise tour to Alaska in June this year. She and I like to visit historical sites. In Juneau we found an old "Russian Orthodox Church" and there was a person there that gave us a tour of the building. Towards the back of the room there was a partition that went from one side of the room to the other. In the middle of this partition was an arched doorway with a red curtain in it, (think veil of the Temple Matthew 27:51). It was explained that only the Priest could go behind that veil. It was also said that the Priest must offer up incense before the podium that stood before the curtain.

In July of this same year my wife and I attended a wedding in an "Eastern Orthodox Church." The inside of the church was the same as the "Russian Orthodox Church" and they had the same functions. During the wedding ceremony the Priest went behind the curtain and took a pot of incense with small decorative ropes and brought it out from behind the partition. This incense was swung around the podium. The Priest asked each of the bride and groom the same question "three time" and after each answer he would lead the couple around the podium swinging the incense and chanting in a monotone voice. The explanation was that the ceremony had to reference each member of the trinity.

Thinking about these things I realized that the RCC uses incense around the podium too and have other rituals and ceremonies that they say a person has to do to be saved and to be kept saved.

It seems to me that the Judaizers started the three churches listed above and that many of these same things are found in protestant churches. Have we begun in the spirit and fallen back into a form of Judaism? Did the JUDAIZERS win a place in history? Can anyone tell me that they are no longer with us?

Most all "religious" people are seeking to produce good works in their lives to earn salvation. This is a never-ending battle that is filled only with frustration and defeat. Until they accept the true gospel of Jesus Christ, they will never be able to rest in His finished work on the cross and consequently will never be able to experience the liberty of new life in Christ.

True liberty can come only in Christ. Only when we realize that we are SECURE in Him can we cease from our own works and rest in his work on the cross. This gives us a position of complete peace with God.

Think about it.

Zech 14:20-21
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein:
and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV

Because of your following Hyper-Dispensationalism (Hyperdispensationalism - Wikipedia), which I know from your other posts, you probably won't understand that above Zechariah 14:20-21 Scripture is for after... Christ's 2nd coming to this earth.

If you understood the above Scripture in red, and the timing of that being when Jesus returns, then you would have known when the crept in unawares in God's House will finally be removed forever.
 

justbyfaith

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@BreadOfLife,

the scriptures you have quoted are dealt with by the scriptures that I have brought up (1 John 3:6 and 1 John 2:17)...he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever...and whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not.

Therefore, there is not going to be any departure from the faith for those who are truly born again...

Because,

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 

justbyfaith

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Yes, if they drop dead at that moment.
Otherwise - they need to cooperate with God's grace by obedience and endurance in faith for however long they live.
What you're missing is that this is not the requirement but the supernatural result of being truly born of God.
 

BreadOfLife

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@BreadOfLifethe scriptures you have quoted are dealt with by the scriptures that I have brought up (1 John 3:6 and 1 John 2:17)...he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever...and whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not.

Therefore, there is not going to be any departure from the faith for those who are truly born again...

Because,

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
What you're missing is that this is not the requirement but the supernatural result of being truly born of God.
Sorry, but, as I stated before - your entire argument goes down the drain with "Epignosis".

Epignosis is different from oida or gnosis, which are "knowledge".
Epignosis is s full, experiential and relational knowledge of Christ.

Here is some Protestant scholarship on the meaning of Epignosis . . .
'
Richard Chenevix Trench notes, “In comparing epignosis with gnosis, the “epi” must be regarded as an intensive use of a preposition that gives the compound word a greater strength than the simple word alone possesses” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

Quoting Culverwell, he writes, “Epignosis and gnosis differ. Epignosis is the complete comprehension after the first knowledge (gnosin) of a matter. It is bringing me better acquainted with a thing I knew before; a more exact viewing of an object that I saw before afar off. That little portion of knowledge which we had here shall be much improved, our eye shall be raised to see the things more strongly and clearly” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

He goes on to say on the same page, “All Paul’s uses of epignosis justify and bear out this distinction. This same intensive use of epignosis is confirmed by similar passages in the New Testament and in the Septuagint. It also was recognized by the Greek fathers. Thus Chrysostom stated: ‘You knew (egnote), but it is necessary to know thoroughly (epignonai).”

J.B. Lightfoot commenting on epignosis, notes, “The compound epignosis is an advance upon gnosis, denoting a larger and more thorough knowledge...Hence also epignosis is used especially of the knowledge of God and of Christ, as being the perfection of knowledge” (St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians and Philemon, page 138).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, “epignosis, akin to A, No. 3, denotes "exact or full knowledge, discernment, recognition,"

The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon (page 237):
1. Precise and correct knowledge
2. Knowledge of things ethical and divine
3. Of God, especially knowledge of His holy will and of the blessings which He has bestowed and constantly bestows on men through Christ
4. Of Christ, i.e., the true knowledge of Christ’s nature, dignity, benefits
5. Of God and Christ, i.e., to keep the knowledge of the one true God which has illumined the soul

Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament
, volume 2, page 25:
1. Knowledge as recognition of the will of God that is effective in the conduct of the one who knows God
2. Christian faith

This last entry defines Epignosis as Christian Faith itself.

Ergo - the Scriptures I presented show that a person with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ can indeed fall away and be LOST
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)
.
 

justbyfaith

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Sorry, but, as I stated before - your entire argument goes down the drain with "Epignosis".

Epignosis is different from oida or gnosis, which are "knowledge".
Epignosis is s full, experiential and relational knowledge of Christ.

Here is some Protestant scholarship on the meaning of Epignosis . . .
'
Richard Chenevix Trench notes, “In comparing epignosis with gnosis, the “epi” must be regarded as an intensive use of a preposition that gives the compound word a greater strength than the simple word alone possesses” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

Quoting Culverwell, he writes, “Epignosis and gnosis differ. Epignosis is the complete comprehension after the first knowledge (gnosin) of a matter. It is bringing me better acquainted with a thing I knew before; a more exact viewing of an object that I saw before afar off. That little portion of knowledge which we had here shall be much improved, our eye shall be raised to see the things more strongly and clearly” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

He goes on to say on the same page, “All Paul’s uses of epignosis justify and bear out this distinction. This same intensive use of epignosis is confirmed by similar passages in the New Testament and in the Septuagint. It also was recognized by the Greek fathers. Thus Chrysostom stated: ‘You knew (egnote), but it is necessary to know thoroughly (epignonai).”

J.B. Lightfoot commenting on epignosis, notes, “The compound epignosis is an advance upon gnosis, denoting a larger and more thorough knowledge...Hence also epignosis is used especially of the knowledge of God and of Christ, as being the perfection of knowledge” (St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians and Philemon, page 138).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, “epignosis, akin to A, No. 3, denotes "exact or full knowledge, discernment, recognition,"

The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon (page 237):
1. Precise and correct knowledge
2. Knowledge of things ethical and divine
3. Of God, especially knowledge of His holy will and of the blessings which He has bestowed and constantly bestows on men through Christ
4. Of Christ, i.e., the true knowledge of Christ’s nature, dignity, benefits
5. Of God and Christ, i.e., to keep the knowledge of the one true God which has illumined the soul

Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, volume 2, page 25:
1. Knowledge as recognition of the will of God that is effective in the conduct of the one who knows God
2. Christian faith

This last entry defines Epignosis as Christian Faith itself.

Ergo - the Scriptures I presented show that a person with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ can indeed fall away and be LOST
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)
.
Please show, in each scripture that you have referenced, where the word epignosis is used.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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Let's start from the top down . . .

A person can be born again, regenerated - then LOSE his secure position. The Bible warns us over and over that this can happen
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).
Unfortunately, YOU seem to have fallen for the false Protestant invention of "OSAS" - Once Saved Always Saved.

We are warned in Scripture that ravenous wolves will arise from our own numbers - and to beware of them (Matt. 7:15, Acts 20:29).
As I explained to you before - Judas was one of those to whom Jesus gave the Authority to excommunicate in Matt. 18:15-18.
NOT sure why you need this to be explained again.

As to 1 Cor. 6:11 - I'm not sure why you posted this as some sort of "proof text" for Sola Fide. It doesn't support this false doctrine at ALL.
As to John 3:24 & Eph. 1:13, those are wonderful verses - for those who understand them.

You keep cherry-picking verses here and there without taking ALL of the verses in their proper CONTEXT. One verse of Scripture cannot refute another or it is ALL a lie. When you have verses that say we are saved by our "belief" - what is that really saying??
Let's see what the Bible says about "Believing" in Christ:

"Believing" in Christ means . . .
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2).


As I showed you earlier - faith is ACTION - not just mental assent because is is motivated by love (1 Cor. 13:1-3). Even the DEMONS believe in Christ (James 2:19) - but they don't have a faith of action because they don't have love.

Finally - Catholics agree that salvation is not of works that any man should boast (Eph. 2:9). Not of OUR works, at least.
HOWEVER - this verse is talking about works of the LAW (Mosaic Law). For Christians, GOD prepared our works for us in advance (Eph. 2:10). They are GIFTS from HIM for us to do.
They are for HIS glory - not ours . . .
I will have to point out your point at the start is wrong as you are looking at a water only baptised person in that.
But if one is truly born again such a one will not fail in Christ or loose ones Salvation, because no one can pluck such a one out of Gods Hand.

What you are saying as to such is about a water baptised of such faith in Jesus can lose such, because such a one does not have Faith that can move mountains, because one is only religious, parable of the weeds ? so one is not out of the woods so to speak and not truly a Servant of Jesus Christ, as John the Baptist said even he was not worthy of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in Christ Jesus.
One must remember that the, Oh you of little faith ? is pointing out that such faith does not truly cut it, and that the Faith that can move Mountains is where it's all at in Christ Jesus, because it's solid faith that comes from Jesus Christ himself only.

Most people who peddle OSAS are just on a ego trip I have found.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Please show, in each scripture that you have referenced, where the word epignosis is used.
Heb. 10:26-27 & 2 Pet. 2:20-22 BOTH speak of those with an “Epignosis” being in danger of falling away and LOSING their security.

The other 7 or 8 verses I presented support this idea.
 

BreadOfLife

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I will have to point out your point at the start is wrong as you are looking at a water only baptised person in that.
But if one is truly born again such a one will not fail in Christ or loose ones Salvation, because no one can pluck such a one out of Gods Hand.

What you are saying as to such is about a water baptised of such faith in Jesus can lose such, because such a one does not have Faith that can move mountains, because one is only religious, parable of the weeds ? so one is not out of the woods so to speak and not truly a Servant of Jesus Christ, as John the Baptist said even he was not worthy of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in Christ Jesus.
One must remember that the, Oh you of little faith ? is pointing out that such faith does not truly cut it, and that the Faith that can move Mountains is where it's all at in Christ Jesus, because it's solid faith that comes from Jesus Christ himself only.

Most people who peddle OSAS are just on a ego trip I have found.
According to Paul – you can have faith that can move mountains – yet have NOTHING because you have not LOVE.

The 9 or 10 verses I presented show unequivocally that a converted BORN AGAIN person can fall away and LOSE their security if they do not endure in faith.

We are NOT guaranteed salvation UNLESS we endure to the end.
 

justbyfaith

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Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This scripture proclaims to me the eternal security of the believer quite clearly. "shall not come into condemnation" is absolute terminology. It is also clear that we have passed from death into everlasting life...if that life ever comes to an end, it was not everlasting but temporal.

Jhn 6:47, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Everlasting life lasts for ever...it can never come to an end.

Jhn 10:27, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jhn 10:28, And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jhn 10:29, My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30, I and my Father are one.


Here there is a threefold assurance. 1) the nature of the life given is that it is eternal. 2) those who receive it shall never perish. 3) No one is able to snatch them out of God's hand.

Now with 3), some would argue that while we cannot be snatched out of the Lord's hand, we can walk away ourselves. The following scripture refutes this idea:

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Some would then argue that it says "that they may fear me for for ever," which is not absolute terminology. I would answer with the following scripture:

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

It is the nature of the fear of the LORD that it endures for ever; and therefore the only way a person who has faith in Jesus can ever be lost is if they never obtain the fear of the LORD.

So then, I define to you a new epignosis that is not bound by your definitions. It is an epignosis wherein the fear of the Lord exists in the person's heart as a keeping element; and a person with such an epignosis cannot lose their salvation as long as they retain the fear of the LORD; which we have found is clean and enduring for ever.
 

BreadOfLife

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Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This scripture proclaims to me the eternal security of the believer quite clearly. "shall not come into condemnation" is absolute terminology. It is also clear that we have passed from death into everlasting life...if that life ever comes to an end, it was not everlasting but temporal.

Jhn 6:47, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Everlasting life lasts for ever...it can never come to an end.

Jhn 10:27, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jhn 10:28, And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jhn 10:29, My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30, I and my Father are one.


Here there is a threefold assurance. 1) the nature of the life given is that it is eternal. 2) those who receive it shall never perish. 3) No one is able to snatch them out of God's hand.

Now with 3), some would argue that while we cannot be snatched out of the Lord's hand, we can walk away ourselves. The following scripture refutes this idea:

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Some would then argue that it says "that they may fear me for for ever," which is not absolute terminology. I would answer with the following scripture:

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

It is the nature of the fear of the LORD that it endures for ever; and therefore the only way a person who has faith in Jesus can ever be lost is if they never obtain the fear of the LORD.

So then, I define to you a new epignosis that is not bound by your definitions. It is an epignosis wherein the fear of the Lord exists in the person's heart as a keeping element; and a person with such an epignosis cannot lose their salvation as long as they retain the fear of the LORD; which we have found is clean and enduring for ever.
You’re doing it again.

You‘re cherry-picking verses to refute others. Scripture CANNOT refute itself.

The verses you just posted – in CONTEXT - reveal a faithful GOD – and His desire for a faithful people.

HOWEVER, since we are imperfect creature – we stray – just as Israel did for thousands of years. God didn’t love THEM any less – and didn’t will that they remain with Him any less.

God is not some Cosmic Rpist who forces His love on us. He gives it to us freely – for us to accept or reject freely.

He doesn’t drag anybody kicking and screaming against their will into Heaven – not does He send anybody kicking and screaming against their will into Hell.

WE make that choice. THAT’s how much He loves us
 

Reggie Belafonte

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According to Paul – you can have faith that can move mountains – yet have NOTHING because you have not LOVE.

The 9 or 10 verses I presented show unequivocally that a converted BORN AGAIN person can fall away and LOSE their security if they do not endure in faith.

We are NOT guaranteed salvation UNLESS we endure to the end.
I believe that one must endure to the end and one who is truly born again 'Saved' truly does so. not to mention I do not believe that such is a one off thing as some claim regardless.
One I know clams now he can do whatever now and kill regardless because OSAS, well I say such is not truly born again or saved in the first place, but only religious like the Pharisees peddling a mans works religion in dictating such stuff on their own behalf as they do not know God, but are peddling a mans works religion and that is what all the people who look to idolise the so called Jews nowadays are only truly doing, as such can not truly know God and do not truly know Jesus at all. for if they did know Jesus is the Christ, then they would not look to the Jews for anything at all, as what has an Anti-Christ have to do with our Lord and Saviour. as they are clearly different.

Christian Charity is real true Love, Christian Charity is as in, 1 Cor 13:13 So there abide faith, hop, and charity. theses three; but the greatest of theses is charity.
If one has no Christian Charity such a one has nothing in Christ Jesus. so if one has malice controlling ones actions, such is of Satan.
 

BreadOfLife

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I believe that one must endure to the end and one who is truly born again 'Saved' truly does so. not to mention I do not believe that such is a one off thing as some claim regardless.
One I know clams now he can do whatever now and kill regardless because OSAS, well I say such is not truly born again or saved in the first place, but only religious like the Pharisees peddling a mans works religion in dictating such stuff on their own behalf as they do not know God, but are peddling a mans works religion and that is what all the people who look to idolise the so called Jews nowadays are only truly doing, as such can not truly know God and do not truly know Jesus at all. for if they did know Jesus is the Christ, then they would not look to the Jews for anything at all, as what has an Anti-Christ have to do with our Lord and Saviour. as they are clearly different.

Christian Charity is real true Love, Christian Charity is as in, 1 Cor 13:13 So there abide faith, hop, and charity. theses three; but the greatest of theses is charity.
If one has no Christian Charity such a one has nothing in Christ Jesus. so if one has malice controlling ones actions, such is of Satan.
True.
Without love, one's faith is meaningless (1 Cor. 13:1-3).
 

justbyfaith

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You‘re cherry-picking verses to refute others. Scripture CANNOT refute itself.

You have not shown clearly any scripture that refutes or is truly contradictory to the verses that I have presented. Also, within every cherry is a seed that can produce an entire tree.
 

justbyfaith

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God is not some Cosmic Rpist who forces His love on us.
You're right...however, he proposes marriage to the people of earth and if we accept the proposal, we will be bound by the laws of holy matrimony (i.e. till death do us part).

Hos 2:19, And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
Hos 2:20, I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

If we choose to reject those bounds and commit adultery against God, well, this is what the scripture says:

Sng 8:6, Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
Sng 8:7, Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned.

Therefore, I believe that it is the fear of the LORD that will preserve His saints.
 

BreadOfLife

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You're right...however, he proposes marriage to the people of earth and if we accept the proposal, we will be bound by the laws of holy matrimony (i.e. till death do us part).

Hos 2:19, And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
Hos 2:20, I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

If we choose to reject those bounds and commit adultery against God, well, this is what the scripture says:

Sng 8:6, Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
Sng 8:7, Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned.

Therefore, I believe that it is the fear of the LORD that will preserve His saints.
No – fear of the Lord SHOULD preserve the faithful, but it doesn’t always work that way.
Just as Israel was an unfaithful spouse – so can ANY individual be unfaithful.

God didn’t have any LESS power in the Old Covenant than He has in the New Covenant.
Fear of the Lord has been a theme with God’s people throughout the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 6:24, Psalm 31:19, Ps. 112:1, Ps. 115:13, Ps. 128:1-4, Prov. 10:27, Prov. 19:23, Prov. 22:4, Prov. 28:14, Ps. 33:18-19).