Urgent warning about Donald Trump

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Marymog

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Paul also advises elsewhere that bishops should be married so people can look at how he manages his family to give clues about how well he will govern his flock.
Simply NOT TRUE.

Paul said a bishop must be above reproach AND the husband of one wife. He never said a bishop should/must be married. Verses 4-6 say what bishops must do. None of those passage say he must or should be married.
 

Giuliano

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Which question is that?

I thought I was responding to a statement you made....
Say you had a son of about 14 or 15. Would you rather live next door to a happily married gay couple -- or a single gay man pretending to be straight who might have an eye for your son?
 

Marymog

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[QUOTE="Giuliano, post: 636256, member: 8320]It might be a good thing if unmarried priests could realistically be like Jesus. It could also be vanity if unrealistic.[/QUOTE]
Unrealistic to try to be like Jesus? What do you make of 1 Corinthians 11:1 and 1 John 2:6?

Scripture allows married priest AND unmarried celibate priest. So does the CC. Why do you have a problem with the CC following Scripture?

Curious Mary
 

Giuliano

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Simply NOT TRUE.

Paul said a bishop must be above reproach AND the husband of one wife. He never said a bishop should/must be married. Verses 4-6 say what bishops must do. None of those passage say he must or should be married.
Does a man with no wife have one wife? Should an unmarried man with children be made a bishop?

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

The reason is a good one for having bishops married. You can observe how well they manage their families. How could a celibate priest be scrutinized about how well he reared his children unless he had children out of wedlock?

I find it curious that people read "one" to mean "not two or more" but can read it as "zero."
 

Marymog

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Say you had a son of about 14 or 15. Would you rather live next door to a happily married gay couple -- or a single gay man pretending to be straight who might have an eye for your son?
I apologize. I got confused as to the flow of the matter at hand. :rolleyes:

Your question is like asking someone would you rather a potential child predator live next to you or someone who you don't think is a child predator because they appear to be happily married. I thank you have asked a straw man question.

But to answer your question.... of course NO ONE would want to live next to a person who might have an eye on defiling their child. Just like NO ONE would want to live next to a person who might have an eye out for having an affair with your spouse or stealing from your home or watching you thru binoculars or having loud parties every day.

Can you see how ridicules your question is?
 

Giuliano

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Unrealistic to try to be like Jesus? What do you make of 1 Corinthians 11:1 and 1 John 2:6?
I Corinthians is written to everyone in the church at Corinth. Do you think Paul was advising them all to be unmarried? Was 1 John 2:6 written only to priests, advising them to be celibate and chaste? Is that what it means? Why pick those two verses and think they refer to priests being unmarried? They're written to everyone in the church.

Scripture allows married priest AND unmarried celibate priest. So does the CC. Why do you have a problem with the CC following Scripture?

Curious Mary
I don't think I'm the one with the problem, Mary. Good practices ->good results. Bad practices -> bad results. I'm not a naive bishop who doesn't know what to do with unruly priests.
 

Marymog

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Does a man with no wife have one wife? Should an unmarried man with children be made a bishop?

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

The reason is a good one for having bishops married. You can observe how well they manage their families. How could a celibate priest be scrutinized about how well he reared his children unless he had children out of wedlock?

I find it curious that people read "one" to mean "not two or more" but can read it as "zero."
I think Scripture is pretty clear. It is not one or the other. They CAN be married or they CAN be single which REQUIRES celibacy.
 

Giuliano

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I apologize. I got confused as to the flow of the matter at hand. :rolleyes:

Your question is like asking someone would you rather a potential child predator live next to you or someone who you don't think is a child predator because they appear to be happily married. I thank you have asked a straw man question.

But to answer your question.... of course NO ONE would want to live next to a person who might have an eye on defiling their child. Just like NO ONE would want to live next to a person who might have an eye out for having an affair with your spouse or stealing from your home or watching you thru binoculars or having loud parties every day.

Can you see how ridicules your question is?
Still no answer. Instead you try to demean me by saying my question is ridiculous. I know what fallacies are; and a question cannot be a straw man fallacy. You are wasting my time, Mary. I have some standards for conversing with people, and you aren't measuring up. I expect better from people, really.
 

Ezra

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I already told you I do not think government and religion shouldn't mix; and I already gave my opinions about gay marriage. If you want a theocracy, then maybe you want to go back to the good old days when Catholics and Protestants were killing each other for control of the government. A Protestant king would take over and kill Catholics. A Catholic king would take over and kill Protestants. I'd rather not do things that way. I think everyone-- everyone -- has the right to make up his own mind about religion; and I think it's unwise and even sometimes evil for one person to try to impose his religion on other people.

Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world. It isn't. He doesn't need soldiers, policemen, kings and presidents to establish his kingdom by force. Apparently you seem to need the government to tell you if you can marry a woman but not a man. If your belief is you should marry a woman, by all means do that. Don't marry a man if you think it's wrong.
sigh i am so sorry you cannot answer a straight up question .
I think everyone-- everyone -- has the right to make up his own mind about religion; and I think it's unwise and even sometimes evil for one person to try to impose his religion on other people.
so in other words live and let live dont rock the boat . i can only take you do not agree with Biblical marriage
I think it's unwise and even sometimes evil for one person to try to impose his religion on other people.
lol did you vote for obama ?
 

Marymog

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I Corinthians is written to everyone in the church at Corinth. Do you think Paul was advising them all to be unmarried? Was 1 John 2:6 written only to priests, advising them to be celibate and chaste? Is that what it means? Why pick those two verses and think they refer to priests being unmarried? They're written to everyone in the church.

I don't think I'm the one with the problem, Mary. Good practices ->good results. Bad practices -> bad results. I'm not a naive bishop who doesn't know what to do with unruly priests.
Hi,

No, Paul was not advising them all to be unmarried. o_O I believe I have made it CLEAR that is not what I or the CC believes or Scripture says. However when Paul was speaking about married couples he said I wish that all were as I myself am. Paul was NOT MARRIED and was CELIBATE because practiced what he preached and what was taught to him by Jesus and the Apostles: The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. Paul ALSO said this about the matter of marriage: I wish that all were as I myself am (celibate and unmarried). But each has a particular gift from God, one having one kind and another a different kind.

I NEVER said that 1 John advises priest to be celibate.......Where on Gods green earth did you come up with that notion. :eek: It CLEARLY says, Whoever says, “I abide in him,” ought to walk just as he walked. Jesus was celibate. If we are able to walk as He walked then we should remain celibate. But not all can walk that walk that is why 1 Corinthians ALSO SAYS let each of you lead the life that the Lord has assigned, to which God called you.

Soooo stop pretending that Scripture says it can be only one way.

Bible study Mary
 

Giuliano

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sigh i am so sorry you cannot answer a straight up question . so in other words live and let live dont rock the boat . i can only take you do not agree with Biblical marriage lol did you vote for obama ?
I wrote: " God and God alone decides who's married." Yet you write something like that about me. Get a grip on yourself, please.

Are you pretending to be stupid or aren't you reading what I write? Is your memory failing? Churches can't decide who's married. The government can't. "What God has joined together. . . ." Stop asking silly questions please. And no, I never voted for Obama if that's relevant to this discussion or any of your business. What is your problem?
 

Giuliano

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Hi,

No, Paul was not advising them all to be unmarried. o_O I believe I have made it CLEAR that is not what I or the CC believes or Scripture says. However when Paul was speaking about married couples he said I wish that all were as I myself am. Paul was NOT MARRIED and was CELIBATE because practiced what he preached and what was taught to him by Jesus and the Apostles: The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. Paul ALSO said this about the matter of marriage: I wish that all were as I myself am (celibate and unmarried). But each has a particular gift from God, one having one kind and another a different kind.

I NEVER said that 1 John advises priest to be celibate.......Where on Gods green earth did you come up with that notion. :eek: It CLEARLY says, Whoever says, “I abide in him,” ought to walk just as he walked. Jesus was celibate. If we are able to walk as He walked then we should remain celibate. But not all can walk that walk that is why 1 Corinthians ALSO SAYS let each of you lead the life that the Lord has assigned, to which God called you.

Soooo stop pretending that Scripture says it can be only one way.

Bible study Mary
Then why bring up those passages when we were talking about priests? They aren't about priests, and you know it.
 

Marymog

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Still no answer. Instead you try to demean me by saying my question is ridiculous. I know what fallacies are; and a question cannot be a straw man fallacy. You are wasting my time, Mary. I have some standards for conversing with people, and you aren't measuring up. I expect better from people, really.
Ummmm....Yes I did answer your question when I said But to answer your question.... of course NO ONE would want to live next to a person who might have an eye on defiling their child.
 

Marymog

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Then why bring up those passages when we were talking about priests? They aren't about priests, and you know it.
Ummmm......those passages are about ALL Christians and priests are Christians. They are fulfilling scripture by leading the life that the Lord has assigned, to which God called them. Christ himself gave the pastors and teachers. Haven't you read the bible you quote from?
 

Ezra

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I wrote: " God and God alone decides who's married." Yet you write something like that about me. Get a grip on yourself, please.

Are you pretending to be stupid or aren't you reading what I write? Is your memory failing? Churches can't decide who's married. The government can't. "What God has joined together. . . ." Stop asking silly questions please. And no, I never voted for Obama if that's relevant to this discussion or any of your business. What is your problem?
am i pretending to be stupid? no i am communicating with you..o wait what is my problem? when some one that says they are a christian gives a reply only God declaRES WHO IS MARRIED .i mean serious you cant say what is wrong and what is right? have you ever read ezekiel chapter 3 and 33 .the watch man responsibility ? its not judging saying something is wrong.. same sex marriage/relationships are WRONG---SIN. you refuse to say it is sin so is living in adultery . you like asking questions..if you had a daughter age 14 that come to you and say i am ready to be sexually active. me and my b/f are having sex.. you would say its ok God knows
Is your memory failing? Churches can't decide who's married.
is yours ? we are the church the body of Christ paul wrote in romans chapter 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Galatians 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
what does this say we are to go to them and say or at least speak up and say no. a die hard lost liberal i can deal with.. but a christian who refuses to say same sex marriage is sin ..you must have a different Bible than me .if you read ezekiel 3 and 33 you will find the responsibility of the watchman is to sound the trumpet of danger coming !!! if we fail to sound the trumpet speaking the truth in Love. three Blood is on our hands . we dont beat them w dont misstraet thm.. but we as the church better darn sure say its wrong . there is my problem
 

ScottA

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I'm convinced that Trump was selected by elites to fool the right. Are we going to be wise to the Hegelian Dialectic that has been played on the dumbed down American people? Satan appears as an angel of light we're warned - and many Christians believe that Trump is controlled opposition.

I urge everyone to read this because America's sovereignty along with our rights are being taken right before our eyes as hireling pastors fawn all over Trump and lead Christians down the wide road that leads to destruction. Far from being a Christian I believe Trump is a Judas goat.

Trump Cannot Be Anti-Globalist While Working With Global Elites
That's bologna!

Trump is one, if not the most Christian friendly presidents in modern history, and the reason we now have a Christian in the White House.

Most who are against Trump, are against his crass demeanor. Like many of our generation, they are "offended." (Heaven forbid) And they are not smart enough to see that politics has become so corrupted that a hard-nosed fighter is exactly what was called for. That's the job, and he is doing marvelously.

On the contrary, I recommend you read "The Trump Prophecies" by Mark Taylor.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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I already told you I do not think government and religion shouldn't mix; and I already gave my opinions about gay marriage. If you want a theocracy, then maybe you want to go back to the good old days when Catholics and Protestants were killing each other for control of the government. A Protestant king would take over and kill Catholics. A Catholic king would take over and kill Protestants. I'd rather not do things that way. I think everyone-- everyone -- has the right to make up his own mind about religion; and I think it's unwise and even sometimes evil for one person to try to impose his religion on other people.

Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world. It isn't. He doesn't need soldiers, policemen, kings and presidents to establish his kingdom by force. Apparently you seem to need the government to tell you if you can marry a woman but not a man. If your belief is you should marry a woman, by all means do that. Don't marry a man if you think it's wrong.
Sodomites can not enter the Kingdom of God and anyone who supports them is of Satan.
 

Giuliano

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am i pretending to be stupid? no i am communicating with you..o wait what is my problem? when some one that says they are a christian gives a reply only God declaRES WHO IS MARRIED .i mean serious you cant say what is wrong and what is right? have you ever read ezekiel chapter 3 and 33 .the watch man responsibility ? its not judging saying something is wrong.. same sex marriage/relationships are WRONG---SIN. you refuse to say it is sin so is living in adultery . you like asking questions..if you had a daughter age 14 that come to you and say i am ready to be sexually active. me and my b/f are having sex.. you would say its ok God knows is yours ? we are the church the body of Christ paul wrote in romans chapter 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Galatians 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
what does this say we are to go to them and say or at least speak up and say no. a die hard lost liberal i can deal with.. but a christian who refuses to say same sex marriage is sin ..you must have a different Bible than me .if you read ezekiel 3 and 33 you will find the responsibility of the watchman is to sound the trumpet of danger coming !!! if we fail to sound the trumpet speaking the truth in Love. three Blood is on our hands . we dont beat them w dont misstraet thm.. but we as the church better darn sure say its wrong . there is my problem
Why stop with Romans 1:32? Don't you like the next verse?

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
 

Giuliano

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Ummmm....Yes I did answer your question when I said But to answer your question.... of course NO ONE would want to live next to a person who might have an eye on defiling their child.
You're either playing mind games or in fantasy-land. You do not know how to answer a question straightforwardly.