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soul man

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Before Jesus coming into the earth, the cross, and Penecost, man only had a outer relationship with God, a God to people relationship. Since then it is all an inner relationship with God. To go outside of yourself to look for God is like Jesus said would happen; the day would come when they say he is here or he is there, no he is in the desert. The problem is with trying to find God is he is not in any of those places, he is in you. If the HolySpirit convicts a sinner it will be an inner conviction, when a sinner believes their salvation will be inner. In the age of grace eveything is inner, inside you, nothing is outer. There may be outer things involved such as; God answering a prayer for something, but your relationship with the God head bodily will be inner.

Have you seen those that want to be super spiritual saints and will build alters to meet with the Lord, frivolous, a waste of time and shows a very deep lack of understanding on the believers part. You may have a prayer time set apart to pray same time everyday, that's nice you pray and nothing wrong with praying same time everyday, but don't think that the Lord has set his clock to meet you then at a certain time. Your life is a prayer, the very words you speak are a prayer, no wonder we are cautioned to watch what we say in idle times. Religion wants nothing to do with an inner relationship, why? because you loose all the fan fair and flesh pleasing of doing something to be spiritual. You dont light candles and swing a smoking flask and dress to the nines.

Inner relationship you just are. You are already spiritual you don't work it up, inner relationship you have moved from doing to be, to a knowing. Paul said "I know in whom I believed." The word believe opens to a sinner a brand new world, they become the same thing as the saint that has been in the lord for twenty years. They will not have the knowledge yet but they are fixed the same instantaneous. That is the cross, the cross is the starting place of all any believer will ever be, as they grow in grace and knowledge, it will be the ending place as well. The cross will never leave the equation of your life because it all started with you being crucified with Christ, Hallelujah!

Galatians 2:20,

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 
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Not me

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Before Jesus coming into the earth, the cross, and Penecost, man only had a outer relationship with God, a God to people relationship. Since then it is all an inner relationship with God. To go outside of yourself to look for God is like Jesus said would happen; the day would come when they say he is here or he is there, no he is in the desert. The problem is with trying to find God is he is not in any of those places, he is in you. If the HolySpirit convicts a sinner it will be an inner conviction, when a sinner believes their salvation will be inner. In the age of grace eveything is inner, inside you, nothing is outer. There may be outer things involved such as; God answering a prayer for something, but your relationship with the God head bodily will be inner.

Have you seen those that want to be super spiritual saints and will build alters to meet with the Lord, frivolous, a waste of time and shows a very deep lack of understanding on the believers part. You may have a prayer time set apart to pray same time everyday, that's nice you pray and nothing wrong with praying same time everyday, but don't think that the Lord has set his clock to meet you then at a certain time. Your life is a prayer, the very words you speak are a prayer, no wonder we are cautioned to watch what we say in idle times. Religion wants nothing to do with an inner relationship, why? because you loose all the fan fair and flesh pleasing of doing something to be spiritual. You dont light candles and swing a smoking flask and dress to the nines.

Inner relationship you just are. You are already spiritual you don't work it up, inner relationship you have moved from doing to be, to a knowing. Paul said "I know in whom I believed." The word believe opens to a sinner a brand new world, they become the same thing as the saint that has been in the lord for twenty years. They will not have the knowledge yet but they are fixed the same instantaneous. That is the cross, the cross is the starting place of all any believer will ever be, as they grow in grace and knowledge, it will be the ending place as well. The cross will never leave the equation of your life because it all started with you being crucified with Christ, Hallelujah!

Galatians 2:20,

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Very nice read.... may your fingers, as well as the rest of you be blessed and prosper in all you do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“your life is a prayer”

“the cross is the starting place....it is all you will ever need. .... it is the ending place also....

Such truths, to know these truths by experience,,,, oh to know them more and more.

Be most blessed as they grow in you and all that would have them,

In Christ, Not me
 

farouk

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Before Jesus coming into the earth, the cross, and Penecost, man only had a outer relationship with God, a God to people relationship. Since then it is all an inner relationship with God. To go outside of yourself to look for God is like Jesus said would happen; the day would come when they say he is here or he is there, no he is in the desert. The problem is with trying to find God is he is not in any of those places, he is in you. If the HolySpirit convicts a sinner it will be an inner conviction, when a sinner believes their salvation will be inner. In the age of grace eveything is inner, inside you, nothing is outer. There may be outer things involved such as; God answering a prayer for something, but your relationship with the God head bodily will be inner.

Have you seen those that want to be super spiritual saints and will build alters to meet with the Lord, frivolous, a waste of time and shows a very deep lack of understanding on the believers part. You may have a prayer time set apart to pray same time everyday, that's nice you pray and nothing wrong with praying same time everyday, but don't think that the Lord has set his clock to meet you then at a certain time. Your life is a prayer, the very words you speak are a prayer, no wonder we are cautioned to watch what we say in idle times. Religion wants nothing to do with an inner relationship, why? because you loose all the fan fair and flesh pleasing of doing something to be spiritual. You dont light candles and swing a smoking flask and dress to the nines.

Inner relationship you just are. You are already spiritual you don't work it up, inner relationship you have moved from doing to be, to a knowing. Paul said "I know in whom I believed." The word believe opens to a sinner a brand new world, they become the same thing as the saint that has been in the lord for twenty years. They will not have the knowledge yet but they are fixed the same instantaneous. That is the cross, the cross is the starting place of all any believer will ever be, as they grow in grace and knowledge, it will be the ending place as well. The cross will never leave the equation of your life because it all started with you being crucified with Christ, Hallelujah!

Galatians 2:20,

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Only after Pentecost was the believer indwelt by the Spirit. "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His" (Romans 8.9)
 

prism

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Before Jesus coming into the earth, the cross, and Penecost, man only had a outer relationship with God, a God to people relationship. Since then it is all an inner relationship with God.
So you are going to tell me that the cries of David in the Psalms was only 'an outer relationship' with God, even after God said that David was a man after His own heart in Acts 13:22.
 
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soul man

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So you are going to tell me that the cries of David in the Psalms was only 'an outer relationship' with God, even after God said that David was a man after His own heart in Acts 13:22.

What I'm saying is there were no born again saints in the OT. They had a relationship with God but is was soulish, what Christian's have is spirit relationship, born again relationship. Just like our earthly parents birthed us, accept now it is our Heavenly father that has birthed us in spirit.
 

prism

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What I'm saying is there were no born again saints in the OT. They had a relationship with God but is was soulish, what Christian's have is spirit relationship, born again relationship. Just like our earthly parents birthed us, accept now it is our Heavenly father that has birthed us in spirit.
I have leaned towards that view that the OT saints were not born again but have no concrete Scriptures stating so. Do you have any verses that clearly reveal that?
 
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soul man

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I have leaned towards that view that the OT saints were not born again but have no concrete Scriptures stating so. Do you have any verses that clearly reveal that?[/Q

Genesis 1:27.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:7,
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
-Creator God did not birth sons at creation, that would follow, he created man in his image. Another major point here is; Adam became a living soul no mention of spirit anywhere as of yet.
John 3:3,
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
-This is our first look at God as father other than what Jesus was telling them "I and my father are one." This is the verse that shows the fatherhood of God, and his desire to be father to others, just like he is to only Son Jesus.

Romans 16:25,
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

-The ultimate plan of God is found in this verse, you can see in scripture where Jesus is coming to the earth, and be a Savior to people, and the cross, and even the nail prints. But nowhere is it revealed before in scripture (Old Testament) that God will birth his own children. The importance of the wonderful apostle Paul cannot be stressed enough, the understanding of God birthing his own children by Christ in them was revealed to him.

-and of coarse the greatest of all scripture for a Christian is Ephesians 1:4. It is the ultimate knowing that everything takes place in Christ. It relieves the believer from trying to be something, to knowing something. The believers knowledge of the plan and purpose of God before the foundation of the world (the birthing of God the father, that happens the moment you are placed in Christ) gives them a different out look when dealing with the world. The simplicity of the understanding of God going to birth his own children out of the world, and train them in the world to live in his house, John 14, Galatians 4:1-2.
So Ephesians 1:4, lets us see before anything was created God had in his mind to get children out of the world he was to create, that is most exhilarating!! for lack of a better word. So everything is a build up to that plan and purpose, even the Old Testament. What it does show is man cannot give God what he wants in their ceation alone.
 

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Blood-Soaked
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Genesis 1:27.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:7,
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
-Creator God did not birth sons at creation, that would follow, he created man in his image. Another major point here is; Adam became a living soul no mention of spirit anywhere as of yet.
John 3:3,
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
-This is our first look at God as father other than what Jesus was telling them "I and my father are one." This is the verse that shows the fatherhood of God, and his desire to be father to others, just like he is to only Son Jesus.

Romans 16:25,
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

-The ultimate plan of God is found in this verse, you can see in scripture where Jesus is coming to the earth, and be a Savior to people, and the cross, and even the nail prints. But nowhere is it revealed before in scripture (Old Testament) that God will birth his own children. The importance of the wonderful apostle Paul cannot be stressed enough, the understanding of God birthing his own children by Christ in them was revealed to him.

-and of coarse the greatest of all scripture for a Christian is Ephesians 1:4. It is the ultimate knowing that everything takes place in Christ. It relieves the believer from trying to be something, to knowing something. The believers knowledge of the plan and purpose of God before the foundation of the world (the birthing of God the father, that happens the moment you are placed in Christ) gives them a different out look when dealing with the world. The simplicity of the understanding of God going to birth his own children out of the world, and train them in the world to live in his house, John 14, Galatians 4:1-2.
So Ephesians 1:4, lets us see before anything was created God had in his mind to get children out of the world he was to create, that is most exhilarating!! for lack of a better word. So everything is a build up to that plan and purpose, even the Old Testament. What it does show is man cannot give God what he wants in their ceation alone.

I realize we have oodles more revelation and even revelation of an eternal kind that the OT saints did not have, but still, does that preclude them from being regenerate?
 
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soul man

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I realize we have oodles more revelation and even revelation of an eternal kind that the OT saints did not have, but still, does that preclude them from being regenerate?

Ok try this in your study time, look to see if you can find God as father anywhere before the cross. He was father but to just one, the Son. You have to have a father for there to be a birthing, Lucifer was called "son of the morning" but that was a given position not a birthed position. We know Lucifer was created. What we see in the OT is all mighty God, creator God, a God to people God (Israel) but no "I'll be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me," as we find in the New Testiment. Another thing about Romans 16:25 is the mystery Paul talks about. If you read Paul you see he never uses the term born again, he always referrs to that action as "the mystery," which translates to "Christ in you.
 

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Ok try this in your study time, look to see if you can find God as father anywhere before the cross. He was father but to just one, the Son. You have to have a father for there to be a birthing, Lucifer was called "son of the morning" but that was a given position not a birthed position. We know Lucifer was created. What we see in the OT is all mighty God, creator God, a God to people God (Israel) but no "I'll be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me," as we find in the New Testiment. Another thing about Romans 16:25 is the mystery Paul talks about. If you read Paul you see he never uses the term born again, he always referrs to that action as "the mystery," which translates to "Christ in you.
Paul uses the term mystery referring to various things...
Of Israel-Rom 11:25
Preaching of the Gospel Rom 16:25
Rapture 1Cor 15:51
His will in this dispensation Eph 1:9
The inclusion of the Gentiles Eph 3:5-9
Christ in us Col 1:27 and others.

Paul may not use the term ’born again’ but the concept is there...

2 Corinthians 5:17 NKJV
[17] Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV
[14] But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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Giuliano

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Ok try this in your study time, look to see if you can find God as father anywhere before the cross. He was father but to just one, the Son. You have to have a father for there to be a birthing, Lucifer was called "son of the morning" but that was a given position not a birthed position. We know Lucifer was created. What we see in the OT is all mighty God, creator God, a God to people God (Israel) but no "I'll be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me," as we find in the New Testiment. Another thing about Romans 16:25 is the mystery Paul talks about. If you read Paul you see he never uses the term born again, he always referrs to that action as "the mystery," which translates to "Christ in you.
How about this?

1 Chronicles 28:6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.
7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments, as at this day.
 
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soul man

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How about this?

1 Chronicles 28:6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.
7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments, as at this day.
Not a birthed son! As the born again
 

soul man

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Paul uses the term mystery referring to various things...
Of Israel-Rom 11:25
Preaching of the Gospel Rom 16:25
Rapture 1Cor 15:51
His will in this dispensation Eph 1:9
The inclusion of the Gentiles Eph 3:5-9
Christ in us Col 1:27 and others.

Paul may not use the term ’born again’ but the concept is there...

2 Corinthians 5:17 NKJV
[17] Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV
[14] But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yes he does; point being when he refers to Christ in believers he uses the word mystery. But on the other hand he said that mystery has been revealed, so whether a believer ever sees if or not it is available for all to see and know, because it has been revealed. There is no mystery in God now, it has been revealed, and that revelation is of his son in believers, Galatians 1:11-12, 15-16. The mystery is a person!
 

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Yes he does; point being when he refers to Christ in believers he uses the word mystery. But on the other hand he said that mystery has been revealed, so whether a believer ever sees if or not it is available for all to see and know, because it has been revealed. There is no mystery in God now, it has been revealed, and that revelation is of his son in believers, Galatians 1:11-12, 15-16. The mystery is a person!
Ok, so all in all, I guess I am still no further in my (non) conviction that the OT saints we're or we're not born again. Like I said at the beginning, I tend not to believe they were, I just have no conclusive scriptural support...only inklings here and there.:oops:
 
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Giuliano

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Not a birthed son! As the born again
I didn't understand that's what you meant.

Three questions for you now. When Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, he said Nicodemus should know what he was talking about.

John 1:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

That means "born of the spirit" was Old Testament material. So where is it found in the Old Testament?

Second question, do you believe those who are born of the Spirit can move like the wind?

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Third question: What is the significance of the phrase "Son of Man" and how could he have come down from Heaven and also still be in Heaven?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
 
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soul man

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Ok, so all in all, I guess I am still no further in my (non) conviction that the OT saints we're or we're not born again. Like I said at the beginning, I tend not to believe they were, I just have no conclusive scriptural support...only inklings here and there.:oops:

Totally understand, one more look at it. We know a birthing comes by a seed, look at the seed of God, which is Christ according to scripture. There was no seed in the OT for the saints. You may meed to look at some of the things we have talked about and see if anything comes together for you, and if not that's ok just ask the Lord and wait on him. He gave us the word that all things shall be revealed.
 

farouk

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Totally understand, one more look at it. We know a birthing comes by a seed, look at the seed of God, which is Christ according to scripture. There was no seed in the OT for the saints. You may meed to look at some of the things we have talked about and see if anything comes together for you, and if not that's ok just ask the Lord and wait on him. He gave us the word that all things shall be revealed.
The parable of the sower comes to mind...
 
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farouk

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I have leaned towards that view that the OT saints were not born again but have no concrete Scriptures stating so. Do you have any verses that clearly reveal that?
It was all before Pentecost when the Holy Spirit did not indwell, unlike afterwards. In Psalm 51, David prays: 'And take not Thy Holy Spirit from me'; not a prayer that believers after Pentecost need to pray. What we do have in the Old Testament is believers who are justified by faith; Romans and Hebrews bring this out.
 
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soul man

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I didn't understand that's what you meant.

Three questions for you now. When Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, he said Nicodemus should know what he was talking about.

John 1:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

That means "born of the spirit" was Old Testament material. So where is it found in the Old Testament?

Jesus was expecting Nicodemus to have some knowledge. In all fairness Jesus also knew no man could understand what he was talking about without the help of the HolySpirit. And the HolySpirit had not been poured out on all fleash yet.

Second question, do you believe those who are born of the Spirit can move like the wind?

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I'm not for sure I understand the question, are you talking aboit being translated from one place to another or just a smoothe character. My understanding of the scripture is he was saying a new birth that will happen is going to be in spirit, without much fanfare, just a simple act of God and know one will know it. It's like the wind, it happens and you have no idea where it came from.


Third question: What is the significance of the phrase "Son of Man" and how could he have come down from Heaven and also still be in Heaven?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Your guess is good as mine :) the Omnipresent of God is believed or rejected. How can he be everywhere at one time and know everything that is happening to every individual alive. That is God, believed or not. How does Christ dwell in every born again believer at one time? Those are questions that we just believe because they are written. Over a 150 times is the believer found in Christ written in the scriptures, very weighty and much attention should be given to that specific area of understanding.