Why is the "Imputed righteousness" scheme so seductive?

Episkopos · Oct 16, 2019

The carnal man is always looking to get away with things. People like the free stuff. So when the seductive power of the devil gets behind something that SOUNDS like it's from God...it's very hard to resist...unless one loves the truth.

So how can one avoid this great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment for actions and thoughts in these mortal bodies?

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like? Is it like Christ to look to get away with sins?

Nancy · Oct 16, 2019

Episkopos said:
The carnal man is always looking to get away with things. People like the free stuff. So when the seductive power of the devil gets behind something that SOUNDS like it's from God...it's very hard to resist...unless one loves the truth.

So how can one avoid this great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment for actions and thoughts in these mortal bodies?

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like? Is it like Christ to look to get away with sins?

Oh how we humans can justify just about anything...He knows our motives

Can't hide anything from Him.

Episkopos · Oct 16, 2019

The proof text for the imputed error is ...

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

When we are IN Christ we take on His authority and grace so as to walk exactly as He did. People want to take hold of God's attributes as being their own. But these people are never allowed INTO Christ with such an attitude. So it's all a fantasy. God is looking for self-less people....not religious opportunists.

Even the meaning word "imputed" has been taken out of it's original meaning to satisfy a man-made doctrine that makes this a vicarious or "alien" righteousness as being that which covers up the truth of who we really are and what condition we are actually in.

A false imputation is calling a coward brave...a liar an honest man...a sinner a saint....basically calling good evil and evil good. So then this doctrine flips the truth on it's head in order to satisfy the lust of the flesh to feel justified while still in sin.

Enter Luther. And mass media.

Can God be blinded to our true condition because of religious posturings? Really? Who could believe such a thing?

Does God give sight to the blind and take away sight from Himself? And all this to justify oneself.

ScottA · Oct 16, 2019

It sounds like you are making a case for salvation not being of God, but rather of men and their own righteousness.

Episkopos · Oct 16, 2019

ScottA said:
It sounds like you are making a case for salvation not being of God, but rather of men and their own righteousness.

Actually it sounds like you are trying to take something of God for yourself. Calling good evil and evil good is the way of men.

But God judges righteously...comparing men with men. Righteous is as righteous DOES. With God there are no favourites. God is NOT religious. Men are. And men IMPUTE religiosity to God...falsely. Just as men IMPUTE righteous to themselves...falsely.

ScottA · Oct 16, 2019

Episkopos said:
Actually it sounds like you are trying to take something of God for yourself. Calling good evil and evil good is the way of men.

But God judges righteously...comparing men with men. Righteous is as righteous DOES. With God there are no favourites. God is NOT religious. Men are. And men IMPUTE religiosity to God...falsely. Just as men IMPUTE righteous to themselves...falsely.

I never said anything about me.

But what you have said is not clear. Are you saying that salvation is only of God and not of men? Or are you saying something else?

Episkopos · Oct 16, 2019

If we take away God's ability to judge righteously then we are seeking to take away His righteousness in order to justify ourselves.

Job 40:8
8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Episkopos · Oct 16, 2019

ScottA said:
I never said anything about me.

But what you have said is not clear. Are you saying that salvation is only of God and not of men? Or are you saying something else?

i'm saying that all things rest with God...salvation included. People want security even in sins. But people are not like God.

amadeus · Oct 16, 2019

Episkopos said:
The carnal man is always looking to get away with things. People like the free stuff. So when the seductive power of the devil gets behind something that SOUNDS like it's from God...it's very hard to resist...unless one loves the truth.

So how can one avoid this great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment for actions and thoughts in these mortal bodies?

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like? Is it like Christ to look to get away with sins?

Yes, it is all "free" , but if we simply bury what He has provided instead of continuing to eat and drink of Him so it [we] can grow, should we be surprised if in the end He takes it away from us?

Willie T · Oct 16, 2019

Never read the parable of the hourly vineyard workers, huh?
Matthew 20:1-16

amadeus · Oct 16, 2019

Willie T said:
Never read the parable of the hourly vineyard workers, huh?

Yes, everyone who endures to the end is entitled to his penny... and what is the penny?

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved? Matt 10:22

Some work the long day and some only begin to work in the very last hour of the day... It does not say what happens to someone who starts to work and quits before quitting time. What should we expect?

ScottA · Oct 16, 2019

Episkopos said:
i'm saying that all things rest with God...salvation included. People want security even in sins. But people are not like God.

Now, see, that's confusing.

It sounds like a contradiction of terms. Assuming that "Imputed Righteous" means not of the person, but of Christ...that would not make it a "seductive scheme", but rather an incredible gift from God.

So...what am I missing here?

Enoch111 · Oct 16, 2019

Why is the "Imputed righteousness" scheme so seductive?

Click to expand...

This does sound like Satan calling God's plan of salvation an evil scheme.

But just as the Seducer seduced Eve, he would seek to seduce Christians from the truth into his web of lies.

Episkopos · Oct 16, 2019

ScottA said:
Now, see, that's confusing.

It sounds like a contradiction of terms. Assuming that "Imputed Righteous" means not of the person, but of Christ...that would not make it a "seductive scheme", but rather an incredible gift from God.

So...what am I missing here?

Let's say a person is given the job of an ambassador. Now does that make that person free to do whatever he wants to do in that position? Will he be judged always well because he is an ambassador? Or will he be held to a higher standard and judged very severely since he has been given great responsibility? Abuse of that position is very dangerous. Likewise being under grace. Very dangerous indeed.

Religious indoctrination makes the ambassador always prosecution proof because of a diplomatic immunity. But an ambassador doesn't have diplomatic immunity in his own country. God sees all and will give EVERY man according to his own works.

Grace gives us the authority to represent God as ambassadors of Christ. A person who has received grace will be judged more severely than others...not less. To whom much is given....more is required. The doctrine of men suggests the exact opposite. So then the religious indoctrination into believing the lie of "imputed righteousness" is simply getting people ready for judgment and condemnation.

Even if a person has all grace in the world or in heaven...but misuses that grace...that person will be judged more severely for it. Even having all understanding and knowledge is nothing without sacrificial love.

So people are fooling themselves more often than not...and totally ignorant of it.

Look at what Paul said...

1 Cor. 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others (by the power of grace), I myself should be a castaway. (because of a lack of righteousness)

So to the wise I say...learn righteousness, humility and the fear of the Lord. Whatever is of God will return to God. What is left after that you will be judged by.

Davy · Oct 17, 2019

Lot of Churches today have to have some way to try and justify their corruptions they have fallen into.

1. throw away the need for repentance of future sin
2. throw away the need to remain spiritually sober and watching against sin
3. disregard God's laws that Jesus did not nail to His cross, which is to promote anarchy
4. tell believers that once they have believed on Jesus, there's nothing they can ever do to fall away from Christ
5. become filled with the doctrines of hirelings, the very ones our Lord Jesus warned us that will run when the wolves creep in to devour His sheep.

That I call the False Grace plan.

OzSpen · Oct 17, 2019

Episkopos said:
The carnal man is always looking to get away with things. People like the free stuff. So when the seductive power of the devil gets behind something that SOUNDS like it's from God...it's very hard to resist...unless one loves the truth.

So how can one avoid this great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment for actions and thoughts in these mortal bodies?

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like? Is it like Christ to look to get away with sins?

Episkopos,

I'd appreciate it if you would define your terms. What is your definition of 'imputed righteousness'? Where did you get the idea that it included a 'great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment'?

Oz

Episkopos · Oct 17, 2019

OzSpen said:
Episkopos,

I'd appreciate it if you would define your terms. What is your definition of 'imputed righteousness'? Where did you get the idea that it included a 'great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment'?

Oz

Imputed righteousness is a term invented by Luther...also called "alien righteousness." It maintains that taking on Jesus as your saviour HIDES your true self from God. It steals righteousness from God in order to make it one's own.

Basically it is to be able to hide behind Jesus. So then rather than Jesus reconciling us with a loving God, Luther's idea was to hide people from an angry God. Sort of like when Adam and Even hid themselves in the garden...but this time it's behind Jesus. So then when God looks at us He can't see us...He sees Jesus instead who is covering us up.

Of course this is so false that men will believe it.

Why?

Because men hate the truth. A chance to coverup the truth will always be popular.

The truth is that we enter into Christ to be empowered to walk as He walked...in complete exposure and intimacy with God. The cleansing is real...not just a coverup.

Luther likened justification to a dunghill covered with a fresh blanket of snow. But he never got around to answer why his theories stank so much.

Giuliano · Oct 17, 2019

Episkopos said:
The carnal man is always looking to get away with things. People like the free stuff. So when the seductive power of the devil gets behind something that SOUNDS like it's from God...it's very hard to resist...unless one loves the truth.

So how can one avoid this great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment for actions and thoughts in these mortal bodies?

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like? Is it like Christ to look to get away with sins?

I see the inventors of this idea as con men, offering people something for nothing. It's a seductive doctrine. Most of the blame has to go on the inventors, less so the people who are taught it.

Episkopos · Oct 17, 2019

Giuliano said:
I see the inventors of this idea as con men, offering people something for nothing. It's a seductive doctrine. Most of the blame has to go on the inventors.

The inventor of all pernicious doctrines is the enemy of our souls. But he comes across as someone who sympathizes with our sinful condition...and justifies that for us. It's about a new way of getting away with sin rather than overcoming it through a new life in Christ. However, false doctrine also denies the love of God and the grace available by faith to actually walk with God...cleansed of our sins and also crucified to the nature that causes us to sin.

But hey, people would rather just take the easy way of remaining as they are and believe in the lie that God won't judge them...or can even see them.

justbyfaith · Oct 17, 2019

Episkopos said:
A false imputation is calling a coward brave...a liar an honest man...a sinner a saint....

An ungodly person righteous? See Romans 4:5. Because "justify" means "to declare righteous".

Episkopos said:
Imputed righteousness is a term invented by Luther...

Actually, it was more likely invented by the apostle Paul (perhaps even someone before him; but he was the one who made it famous):

Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Why is the "Imputed righteousness" scheme so seductive?

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