Why is the "Imputed righteousness" scheme so seductive?

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Giuliano

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The inventor of all pernicious doctrines is the enemy of our souls. But he comes across as someone who sympathizes with our sinful condition...and justifies that for us. It's about a new way of getting away with sin rather than overcoming it through a new life in Christ. However, false doctrine also denies the love of God and the grace available by faith to actually walk with God...cleansed of our sins and also crucified to the nature that causes us to sin.

But hey, people would rather just take the easy way of remaining as they are and believe in the lie that God won't judge them...or can even see them.
It is pernicious in related way, denying man's dignity. We may look undignified now, but God wants men and women to be like Him. We are made in His image and likeness. God wants that horrible sinful nature taken away completely so we do Him credit as His creation. Then Satan will be proved wrong. God didn't create man so defective he could never be fixed. Even if men sin, God can fix that if we are willing to let Him. I think God sees the potential goodness in men. The Devil doesn't.

I went through the gospels once to see who got threatened the worst by Jesus. It was his unfaithful servants. That should frighten some people.
 
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Episkopos

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Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

But that is not what Paul is saying. To impute means to acknowledge the attribute being imputed. God sees the heart and He has the authority to declare a heart righteous. When He does that...by SEEING the heart....He calls it as He sees it. THAT is what impute really means.

The real use of impute is unknown to indoctrinated people.

The proper use of the term would be...the noise was imputed to the alarm clock. Impute means to attribute. Not to cover up. In religious circles this kind of logic is being used....the noise was imputed to the pillow.

So then good becomes evil and evil good...by religious imputation.
 

The wind

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The carnal man is always looking to get away with things. People like the free stuff. So when the seductive power of the devil gets behind something that SOUNDS like it's from God...it's very hard to resist...unless one loves the truth.

So how can one avoid this great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment for actions and thoughts in these mortal bodies?

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like? Is it like Christ to look to get away with sins?
You need the Spirit of God to know the things of God. This is the only way to not be fooled by the world.
 

VictoryinJesus

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The carnal man is always looking to get away with things. People like the free stuff. So when the seductive power of the devil gets behind something that SOUNDS like it's from God...it's very hard to resist...unless one loves the truth.

So how can one avoid this great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment for actions and thoughts in these mortal bodies?

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like? Is it like Christ to look to get away with sins?

God has already set in motion to manifest whether it is the righteousness of men by works of the Law or God’s righteousness. He will manifest whether man serves man or whether man serves God. the parable of Mark 4:16-20 shows this. As Paul said “I will come and see who among you are puffed up and who has power. It is necessary to see the table of stone and man’s righteousness is within the parable...in the “stony ground” Philippians 3:9-10 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

“righteousness by the law” having your own righteousness...which when affliction and persecution arises for the word’s sake...immediately ‘man’s own righteousness’ is offended.
”And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; [17] And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. [18] And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, [19] And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. [20] And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.”

offended and fall away ...man’s own righteousness is offended (pride wounded) and desires not what God says IS His righteousness. Liking the sound of it but not the doing in “why do you call Me Lord and do not what I say?” Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


“Power to become the Son’s of God” ...Having God’s righteousness and to not be found having our own righteousness by the law written in stony hearts...He says over and over to love your enemies. To bless those who curse you. “To be perfect as your Father is perfect.” Consider the you will be hated of all men for My name sake...cursed, rejected, despised, cast out, persecuted FOR His name sake. As these things rise for given opportunity to obey the Father in blessing those who curse you. The hatred rising for the very purpose of being Christ in Love to that which opposes The Love of Christ. God clearly shows man after man’s righteousness will be offended by the shame set before him...when Christ also despised the shame set before Him ...but said “not My will but Your will be done” to the Father. Power to become the Sons of God ...power to suffer shame, persecution, to be reviled yet to bless instead of curse. 1 Peter 2:21-23 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: [23] Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

man after his own righteousness ...is injured by being stripped by his own righteousness appearance for the sake of the word he claims to love as Job who we see how fast Job was made “filth” being spit upon, mocked, and rejected by the same ones who once revered him.
1 Corinthians 4:10-17
[10] We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. [11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; [12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: [13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. [14] I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. [15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. [16] Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. [17] For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.


Empty vain words of righteousness by the law will say it has “righteousness” but when affliction and persecution arises for The Sake of the word and not himself and his own image...man seeking after his own righteousness is immediately offended by the “shame” set forth to intreat for God’s will to be seen. losing his own good name and his own righteousness for God’s righteousness to be declared. Made filth before men...that by the power of God to become Son’s The love of Christ is seen.
 
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Earburner

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The carnal man is always looking to get away with things. People like the free stuff. So when the seductive power of the devil gets behind something that SOUNDS like it's from God...it's very hard to resist...unless one loves the truth.

So how can one avoid this great delusion of a spiritual immunity from judgment for actions and thoughts in these mortal bodies?

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like? Is it like Christ to look to get away with sins?
You should pose that question to "the thief on the cross", and then listen to Jesus' answer to him!
 
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stunnedbygrace

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If we take away God's ability to judge righteously then we are seeking to take away His righteousness in order to justify ourselves.

Job 40:8
8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
There is a verse where God said, I will cancel your deal to cheat death.
 

VictoryinJesus

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The thief said his punishment was just. He wasn't try to dodge things.


Luke 23:39-42 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. [40] But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? [41] And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. [42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

”...seeing thou art in the same condemnation.”
James 4:2-3 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
 

Giuliano

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Luke 23:39-42 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. [40] But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? [41] And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. [42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

”...seeing thou art in the same condemnation.”
James 4:2-3 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
You remind me of this:

Psalm 34:18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
 

ScottA

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Let's say a person is given the job of an ambassador. Now does that make that person free to do whatever he wants to do in that position? Will he be judged always well because he is an ambassador? Or will he be held to a higher standard and judged very severely since he has been given great responsibility? Abuse of that position is very dangerous. Likewise being under grace. Very dangerous indeed.

Religious indoctrination makes the ambassador always prosecution proof because of a diplomatic immunity. But an ambassador doesn't have diplomatic immunity in his own country. God sees all and will give EVERY man according to his own works.

Grace gives us the authority to represent God as ambassadors of Christ. A person who has received grace will be judged more severely than others...not less. To whom much is given....more is required. The doctrine of men suggests the exact opposite. So then the religious indoctrination into believing the lie of "imputed righteousness" is simply getting people ready for judgment and condemnation.

Even if a person has all grace in the world or in heaven...but misuses that grace...that person will be judged more severely for it. Even having all understanding and knowledge is nothing without sacrificial love.

So people are fooling themselves more often than not...and totally ignorant of it.

Look at what Paul said...

1 Cor. 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others (by the power of grace), I myself should be a castaway. (because of a lack of righteousness)


So to the wise I say...learn righteousness, humility and the fear of the Lord. Whatever is of God will return to God. What is left after that you will be judged by.
I see, and I agree--but not entirely.

Here rather is the rub and the error of that thinking: Grace can be a dangerous thing for those called--but not so for those chosen. So, either you have wrongly assumed "ambassadorship" applies to those merely called, or you are in error about grace and those who are and have been chosen. One chosen is One with Christ and God already, and therefore is not under grace any longer, but sealed without possibility of default or reproach.

I recommend that you reconsider the scriptural points of grace and of those saved, and the difference between what that all means to those called as apposed to those sealed for eternity; and that those scriptures that address the one, do not apply to the other, and vice versa.
 
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ScottA

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marks

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Can God be blinded to our true condition because of religious posturings?
Of course not, that's more foolishness. I believe you say this only to impugne those who have faith, those who are reborn, and you want to make out this a new creation is simply "religious posturings".

But God most certainly can change our true condition.

When we are IN Christ we take on His authority

This is what you like! You continually come back to taking on authority. Once one knows what to look for, well, I find it in every thread.

Is seeking a selfish advantage Christ-like?

Of course not!! But again, this isn't really germain to the point, it's only disparaging other's views. Unless you mean, is seeking something better for yourself what Christ wants? He's the One Who invites us.

But I realize you simply want to equate those with faith as being in flesh. But the ones in flesh are those trying to "become righteous" on their own terms, by works.

Even the meaning word "imputed" has been taken out of it's original meaning to satisfy a man-made doctrine that makes this a vicarious or "alien" righteousness as being that which covers up the truth of who we really are and what condition we are actually in.

you are remembering, right, that "imputed" is the English translation, logidzomai being the Greek, translated imputed, reckoned, counted, think, account, esteem, it clearly means to reckon something as so.

Your error is to claim that the new birth is not a new creation, in holiness and righteousness. Which is, again, clearly taught in the Bible. I know you don't accept the Bible the same way as others do. I also know that you don't hold the Christian faith as something special, that then Hindus and the Muslims, and all demon worshipers, are equal to Christians in that, according to you, we all simply are judged by our works, and that's it.

You deny forgiveness, the sending away of sin.

And this teaching attempts to rob people of the hope of a new life, as you tell them, Oh, you have to make yourself better, maybe if you can stop sinning then God will accept you. Worse than nonesense!

God gives hope, and you attempt to take it away. Your teaching points people towards improving their flesh, a hopeless and thankless task that will consume the life of all who attempt it.
 
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marks

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Actually it sounds like you are trying to take something of God for yourself. Calling good evil and evil good is the way of men.

But God judges righteously...comparing men with men. Righteous is as righteous DOES. With God there are no favourites. God is NOT religious. Men are. And men IMPUTE religiosity to God...falsely. Just as men IMPUTE righteous to themselves...falsely.
You um didn't address his statement.

You make salvation of yourself by becoming righteous by doing righteous works. The definition of salvation by works. Certainly you know this. And if so, what does that say?
 

marks

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If we take away God's ability to judge righteously then we are seeking to take away His righteousness in order to justify ourselves.

Job 40:8
8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
Another non-response.

You make salvation to be by your own works of righteousness, offering to God a handful of bloody cloths.
 

Giuliano

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This is a futile argument.
If you don't see it, you don't see it; but it remains true in my book:

Psalm 34:18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Even Jesus petitioned the Father to take away His cup of wrath.
Don't mix things up. Jesus was not afraid of being punished for his sins. Why would he be? He also did not use the words, "cup of wrath." Odd how people can add certain words to certain passages in the Bible.
 

marks

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Now, see, that's confusing.

It sounds like a contradiction of terms. Assuming that "Imputed Righteous" means not of the person, but of Christ...that would not make it a "seductive scheme", but rather an incredible gift from God.

So...what am I missing here?
Nothing.
 
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marks

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Let's say a person is given the job of an ambassador. Now does that make that person free to do whatever he wants to do in that position? Will he be judged always well because he is an ambassador? Or will he be held to a higher standard and judged very severely since he has been given great responsibility? Abuse of that position is very dangerous. Likewise being under grace. Very dangerous indeed.

Let's say a man changes his citizenship from Canadian to the United States. He moves to the states, lives there, a citizen. Is he then going to be judged by Canadian law? No. He'll be subject to the law where he is a citizen, where he resides.

You would have us to all make believe that he still lives in Canada, still is a Canadian citizen. (or vice-verse, for you fine Canadian folk! )

Dangerous ground is when you pervert the gospel of grace into some works mentality. Guaranteed to not work!
 

marks

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It maintains that taking on Jesus as your saviour HIDES your true self from God. It steals righteousness from God in order to make it one's own.
Again, nonsense!

God giving His righteousness to us is not deception, it's a new creation. We become the righteousness of God in Him.
 
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