The Love of God - John MacArthur

David Taylor said:

Even if you go with love less, however the word is still properly translated hate, you still have two different levels of love. God does NOT love all equally nor does Scripture teach that anywhere.

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But what about the modifiers around the embedded root word. They do change the meaning.

The Root Greek word is : - μισέω

The Greek word with the embedded Greek Root

μισέω within that Greek word is: - ἐμίσησα ​

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Now for you to claim that the meaning of both Greek words is the same, then you are mistaken.​

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Now we can "hate" the inappropriate actions of a person, but still love them, but our love for that person will be tempered by the hate we have for their inappropriate behaviour. So in effect, we love them a little less.​

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It seems to me that your self belief in your learning is your downfall. I will still love you but not as much as if I had confidence in your learning.

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Shalom​

Jay Ross said:

But what about the modifiers around the embedded root word. They do change the meaning.

The Root Greek word is : - μισέω

The Greek word with the embedded Greek Root

μισέω within that Greek word is: - ἐμίσησα ​

Now for you to claim that the meaning of both Greek words is the same, then you are mistaken.

Now we can "hate" the inappropriate actions of a person, but still love them, but our love for that person will be tempered by the hate we have for their inappropriate behaviour. So in effect, we love them a little less.
​

It seems to me that your self belief in your learning is your downfall. I will still love you but not as much as if I had confidence in your learning.

Shalom​

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So you believe God loves everyone equally, despite the fact that is not found in SCripture? After all, that is what this thread is about.

David Taylor said:

So you believe God loves everyone equally, despite the fact that is not found in SCripture? After all, that is what this thread is about.

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So you will not answer my question but quickly deflect the conversation away from yourself and your short comings.

I have seventeen grandchildren and I love them all equally but there are some grandchildren that I "hate/'love less'" because of what they are doing.

It they would repent and change their ways and stop doing what it is that I hate, then my" love" would increase towards them. But what sort of love would that be since there are so many types mentioned in the scriptures.

Jay Ross said:

So you will not answer my question but quickly deflect the conversation away from yourself and your short comings.

I have seventeen grandchildren and I love them all equally but there are some grandchildren that I "hate/'love less'" because of what they are doing.

It they would repent and change their ways and stop doing what it is that I hate, then my" love" would increase towards them. But what sort of love would that be since there are so many types mentioned in the scriptures.

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Sorry but Scripture teaches that those who are not saved are under the wrath of God. He does not love them equally. Also, some are never going to be saved because he did not choose them to be saved. That's the reality of Scripture. You may not like it, it is a hard pill to swallow, but that is what Scripture teaches.

And I did not say they were the same word, in answer to your question. Miseo is the lemma that the manuscript word is derived from. And yes, your interpretation is coming off of the quotation from Malachi and the Hebrew word. HOWEVER, Paul routinely uses OT quotes in a new way to give more nuance on the doctrine that he is teaching. IN THE CONTEXT, something people here seem not to like, it is hatred because the passage goes on to describe the wrath that God has for those who have been prepared for destruction.

David Taylor said:

Sorry but Scripture teaches that those who are not saved are under the wrath of God. He does not love them equally. Also, some are never going to be saved because he did not choose them to be saved. That's the reality of Scripture. You may not like it, it is a hard pill to swallow, but that is what Scripture teaches.

And I did not say they were the same word, in answer to your question. Miseo is the lemma that the manuscript word is derived from. And yes, your interpretation is coming off of the quotation from Malachi and the Hebrew word. HOWEVER, Paul routinely uses OT quotes in a new way to give more nuance on the doctrine that he is teaching. IN THE CONTEXT, something people here seem not to like, it is hatred because the passage goes on to describe the wrath that God has for those who have been prepared for destruction.

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How do you know that YOU have not been a vessel prepared for destruction? Why not just rip out all those pages in the Bible where God "so loved the world..." "God wishes NONE to perish" Jesus dies for the sins of THE WORLD and, please don't try and say that the "world" is the planet itself Trees, plants, vegetation, animals...do not sin! Why even evangelize if all is said and done?? Shall I lose hope for my loved ones who are not yet saved? Shall I just stop praying for them? Your doctrine kills, steals and destroys.

Nancy said:

How do you know that YOU have not been a vessel prepared for destruction? Why not just rip out all those pages in the Bible where God "so loved the world..." "God wishes NONE to perish" Jesus dies for the sins of THE WORLD and, please don't try and say that the "world" is the planet itself Trees, plants, vegetation, animals...do not sin! Why even evangelize if all is said and done?? Shall I lose hope for my loved ones who are not yet saved? Shall I just stop praying for them? Your doctrine kills, steals and destroys.

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And of course you take all of these verses out of context.

Nancy said:

Shall I lose hope for my loved ones who are not yet saved? Shall I just stop praying for them? Your doctrine kills, steals and destroys.

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How does my doctrine teach you should lose hope for loved ones not yet saved? It doesn't.
How does my doctrine teach you should stop praying for them? It doesn't.
My doctrine steals kills and destroys? How so? It doesn't.

These are all straw man arguments from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

marks said:

Why would you waste a moment asking for something that's already been decreed? You might as well as to be born. It's outside of your control.

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This argument is classic and nonsense. You do realize even if my theology was wrong, which it isn't, it, by your standards, would be a waste to ask for someone to be saved because that is still out of your control.

marks said:

You teach that God creates people solely to suffer eternally, and that robs people of the knowledge of what God is really like.

I'm curious . . . why are you so angry?

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I don't teach that, Scripture teaches that and I stick with Scripture. Although you engaged in strawman on the second half of the statement. I do not believe that God robs people of knowledge of God. Romans 1 flat out dismisses that notion. I have never argued such.

I'm not angry. I am merely fighting for the truth of Scripture as we are called to do.

This idea that people who hold to the doctrines of grace somehow think that evangelism isn't necessary is ridiculous. Yes, there are people on the far fringes, sometimes referred to as hyper-calvinists, that believe this. But that is the exception and not the rule. We do not know who God has chosen. Therefore, we pray, we evangelize, we preach, we teach and we hope that all are saved. Paul even said he wishes he could take the place of the lost. I must confess I do not have that heart because I do not want eternal torment. But we do not want anyone to perish, but the fact that some will is true whether you believe the doctrines of grace or not.

So this idea that Calvinism somehow sends people to hell, and in the words of another member steals, kills, and destroys, is utter nonsense.

marks said:

You teach that some are saved, and some are condemned, and there is nothing to be done about who is who, that God already picked everyone out.

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The Bible teaches that.

marks said:

And that the God, Who says that He IS love, according to you, has created people for the express purpose that they should suffer forever.

What kind of love is that?

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Yes, some people have been prepared for destruction for the purposes of demonstrating his wrath. That is not my teaching. That is what the Bible says. Again, yes, God is love, but God is also holy and righteous. WHO ARE YOU oh man to question God? Your problem is with God, not me.

David Taylor said:

Yes, some people have been prepared for destruction for the purposes of demonstrating his wrath.

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Yes...there is also a worker of iniquity in all of us ...the fire (wrath) prepared to consume that old man. All prepared for destruction that His mercy would be revealed on the New Man ...that New creature...unlike the old subjected to vanity, futility, an emptiness...alive unto God where emptiness and futility flee. That is what burns and is consumed.

2 Corinthians 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

David Taylor said:

How does my doctrine teach you should lose hope for loved ones not yet saved? It doesn't.
How does my doctrine teach you should stop praying for them? It doesn't.
My doctrine steals kills and destroys? How so? It doesn't.

These are all straw man arguments from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

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I have attended 2 different Calvinistic church's. I have heard all of the arguments, ad nauseam.
Both of those church's were cold and hard, no warm spirited brothers and sisters there. I know all about your TULIP acronym. This horrid doctrine kills, steals and destroys joy and assurance of ones salvation. It also steals hope for loved ones if per chance God decided for no reason to create them for the sole purpose of suffering throughout eternity. Not to mention that if one were created FOR hell, there is nothing that person can do other than what they were "programmed" TO do which would leave God at fault, not the person. And, it would make us nothing more than robots.
The way you see it is that if a child is born, dies a year or so later and they had no chance to even know what sin is but, they were chosen of God to burn in hell oh well...that's just the way of things! That is NOT the God I so love and worship, who is all good, all just and all forgiving.
And, you never answered my question, how do you know that YOU were not created for hell? You don't.

Nancy said:

And, you never answered my question, how do you know that YOU were not created for hell? You don't.

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Of course I do. I believe what Christ has done for me. I have accepted the Gospel. Therefore, I know I am not destined for Hell.

David Taylor said:

Of course I do. I believe what Christ has done for me. I have accepted the Gospel. Therefore, I know I am not destined for Hell.

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And, likewise. This applies to ANY and ALL who believe and accept the Gospel as Truth. All people make choices and this is no different. "Choose this day whom you will serve".

marks said:

It is in fact your teaching. You just stated it on an open forum. I just call attention to that fact.

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No, it's pretty much a regurgitation of Romans 9.

marks said:

I'm not questioning God, I'm questioning you. You are the one who says that God wants to destroy the people He made so He can prove to us how Angry He is.

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Romans 9

marks said:

That's not what the passage in Romans is talking about.

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Then do tell what is it talking about? How will you spin this?

marks said:

But God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked. So don't you see that it's not His desire for the wicked to perish, rather that they would be saved?

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I do not believe God wills for all to be saved. There is not a verse that, in context, actually says that.

Nancy said:

And, likewise. This applies to ANY and ALL who believe and accept the Gospel as Truth. All people make choices and this is no different. "Choose this day whom you will serve".

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You seem to think I do not believe in Free Will. Surely, coming from two calvinistic churches, you would know I DO believe in free will.