Why is the "Imputed righteousness" scheme so seductive?

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marks

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Anyone who enters into Christ takes on His grace and power. It's about location.
You know what they say, "location, location, location". But this idea isn't in the Bible.

Anyone who enters into Christ is a new creation, and is born again, and describes all true Christians, who have received Christ by faith. This erroneous teaching that we aren't really true Christians until we are "Walking in Zion . . .", until we are having visions and dreams, is not reality, and not in the Bible.

I see more and more how people give more weight to their visions and dreams and experiences, and what they think they've experience, who knows? But they give more weight to their visions and dreams than they do to the Bible, and error results.

It's very sad, and seems to be on the rise.
 

marks

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This is religious nonsense. Abraham didn't have Christ's righteousness...he had his own righteousness according to God who acts in real righteousness.
This is what is nonsense.

He believed God, and God counted it to him righteousness. Abraham had . . . wait for it . . . righteousness . . . and God counted it to him for righteousness . . . but that's not what it said!

We know what it actually says.

Abraham had faith. And that was what was counted for righteousness.

It is beyond me to understand how you can write the things you do, that demonstrate more than a rudimentary knowledge of Scripture, yet still believe that you can be received by God based on "your own righteousness".

But even in this, something so plainly stated, yet that plain statement denied, reversed. At your peril.
 

marks

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Actually that means that God can justify people who are NOT believers in Christ....but who ACT righteously in God's eyes. Ungodly yes...but unrighteous no.
So Jesus lied? If I have to choose whom I believe, there's no contest.

Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and no one comes to the Father, except through Him.

And again, promoting this notion that sinners, dead in sin, have righteousness. Again, we know what God says about that which people think is righteous in themselves. Let's just say God has a different description of what those things are.

The ungodly are righteous. Never thought I'd hear someone say that in all seriousness!
 

Giuliano

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So Jesus lied? If I have to choose whom I believe, there's no contest.

Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and no one comes to the Father, except through Him.

And again, promoting this notion that sinners, dead in sin, have righteousness. Again, we know what God says about that which people think is righteous in themselves. Let's just say God has a different description of what those things are.

The ungodly are righteous. Never thought I'd hear someone say that in all seriousness!
What we say doesn't always match what we do. What we really believe is shown by what we do.

Matthew 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
 
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justbyfaith

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We sure can latch onto that "counted for righteousness" part. (At the expense of, literally, everything else.) We really are sleazy lawyers, aren't we...?

I believe in the "counted for righteousness" part (because it is a truth of God's word) but certainly not at the expense of everything else. I have integrated this truth into my understanding that God desires us to be holy and also provides for us to be holy.

Consider that God imputes righteousness to those who will believe in His promises according to Romans 4:20-22.

If you await the fulfillment of 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; and Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10 in your life: then your belief in these promises is imputed to you as righteousness: because it is certain that if you believe in these promises you will reap the benefits of them in due process of time. So the Lord looks at it from the eternal sense: He sees the finished product based on your faith rather than your performance.
 

OzSpen

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This is about Christ not us. Anyone who enters into Christ takes on His grace and power. It's about location. But we each individually are not declared more righteous than we actually are. God doesn't give up His righteousness to unrighteous people. To enter into Christ we must pass through the cross of Christ, the power of which destroys our sinful desires...and our autonomous lives. When someone walks by the power of the Spirit...their own power is crucified so that they are almost spectators to their own walks. The Lord takes over.

But that is not desirable to many who want the benefits of eternal life without the cost. It costs us everything to put on Christ.

That is not what Rom 4:5 teaches: 'But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness' (NASB).

The Christian person who 'believes in Him' is justified (declared righteous) because the Christian's 'faith is credited (reckoned) as righteousness'.

Imputed righteousness related to the declaration of the righteousness on undeserving people who become believers. It is imputed righteousness, thanks to Christ's sacrificial death.
 

OzSpen

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This is religious nonsense. Abraham didn't have Christ's righteousness...he had his own righteousness according to God who acts in real righteousness. Unrighteous people misinterpret what God does all the time. It is very wrong to add to the word of God.

Religious indoctrination is a very ugly thing.

When God justified the publican after he beat his chest....because he was so deeply troubled by his own sins...God imputed it to him for righteousness. Not Christ's righteousness...but just plain old righteousness. Phinehas killed two people and that was seen as righteous by God. Again, he was simply seen as righteous by God.

The reason for the confusion is that very few have ever entered into Christ to find out what the righteousness of Christ really is. So then His righteousness is reduced to where an ordinary unpowerful and weak righteousness is mislabeled as being of Christ.

Why?

Self-justification.

People impute Christ's righteousness on themselves...that is really what is going on more often than not. And this is done to avoid the cross.

Straw man fallacy again. It is fallacious reasoning. We cannot have a reasonable discussion when you twist what I write to try to make it fit into your theology/ideology.
 

marks

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What we say doesn't always match what we do. What we really believe is shown by what we do.

Matthew 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

What exactly does this parable do towards teaching that God considers the ungodly, who don't even believe in Him, to be righteous?

By what standard do you consider someone who does not believe in God, is unregenerate, and dead in sin, to be righteous? Is that if they look good to people? Because God says that what we consider to be our righteousness is - you know :eek:.

Much love!
 

marks

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I believe in the "counted for righteousness" part (because it is a truth of God's word) but certainly not at the expense of everything else. I have integrated this truth into my understanding that God desires us to be holy and also provides for us to be holy.

Consider that God imputes righteousness to those who will believe in His promises according to Romans 4:20-22.

If you await the fulfillment of 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; and Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10 in your life: then your belief in these promises is imputed to you as righteousness: because it is certain that if you believe in these promises you will reap the benefits of them in due process of time. So the Lord looks at it from the eternal sense: He sees the finished product based on your faith rather than your performance.
I believe that the simplicity is this. We can live righteously now because we've been remade as righteous and holy beings.

No need to pretend.

He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Much love!
 
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Steve Owen

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So Jesus lied? If I have to choose whom I believe, there's no contest.

Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and no one comes to the Father, except through Him.

And again, promoting this notion that sinners, dead in sin, have righteousness. Again, we know what God says about that which people think is righteous in themselves. Let's just say God has a different description of what those things are.

The ungodly are righteous. Never thought I'd hear someone say that in all seriousness!
I think he's just yanking your chain, having a little laugh at our expense. Nobody's theology could be that bad!
 

marks

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I think he's just yanking your chain, having a little laugh at our expense. Nobody's theology could be that bad!


Actually that means that God can justify people who are NOT believers in Christ....but who ACT righteously in God's eyes. Ungodly yes...but unrighteous no.

Ungodly, and unbelievers. No joke.

I've read his posts for quite some time. This is in keeping with his doctrine. All are saved, but some to go to outer darkness. Born again, but only so you can gain "your own righteousness" by your good works. And that's how you can get to the next level from "faithful", on the outskirts of heaven, to "saint", in the inner circle, ruling over the others.

He goes beyond that to claim that as an "episkopos", he has been "visited" by God and approved, which now gives him the right and authority to approve or reject others. Oh, and it also gives him the true understanding of the "bible" as he always writes it, though he also considers that the faithful Muslim or Hindu or Animist is just the same in God's eyes as the faithful Christian.

@Episkopos may correct me if I'm misstating his view. Because of the circles he writes in you may need to wade through an awful lot to get to what he actually believes, but it's there.

Happy hunting!
 
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SovereignGrace

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This is what is nonsense.

He believed God, and God counted it to him righteousness. Abraham had . . . wait for it . . . righteousness . . . and God counted it to him for righteousness . . . but that's not what it said!

We know what it actually says.

Abraham had faith. And that was what was counted for righteousness.

It is beyond me to understand how you can write the things you do, that demonstrate more than a rudimentary knowledge of Scripture, yet still believe that you can be received by God based on "your own righteousness".

But even in this, something so plainly stated, yet that plain statement denied, reversed. At your peril.
Abraham’s own righteousness was nothing but filthy rags[Isaiah 64:6], and we know what they are. :eek:
 

Episkopos

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Abraham’s own righteousness was nothing but filthy rags[Isaiah 64:6], and we know what they are. :eek:


God calls it as HE sees it...so you are refuting God. You err by taking one verse out of context to overthrow God's judgments elsewhere. Abraham did not walk in the Spirit...he merely trusted God as a child trusts their parent. We are to trust God in that way. That is the lesson. But people are looking for a way to justify themselves from a misapplication of the words of the bible. The truth is far beyond these efforts....fully out of reach.
 

Preacher4Truth

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The below is nothing other than the epitome of self-righteous deception and a false gospel:

But that is not what Paul is saying. To impute means to acknowledge the attribute being imputed. God sees the heart and He has the authority to declare a heart righteous. When He does that...by SEEING the heart....He calls it as He sees it. THAT is what impute really means.

The real use of impute is unknown to indoctrinated people.

The proper use of the term would be...the noise was imputed to the alarm clock. Impute means to attribute. Not to cover up. In religious circles this kind of logic is being used....the noise was imputed to the pillow.

So then good becomes evil and evil good...by religious imputation.
 

justbyfaith

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The righteousness of Christ as it is given to us is not only imputed and/or positional; it is also imparted and practical (Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6, 1 John 3:7).
 

Giuliano

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What exactly does this parable do towards teaching that God considers the ungodly, who don't even believe in Him, to be righteous?

By what standard do you consider someone who does not believe in God, is unregenerate, and dead in sin, to be righteous? Is that if they look good to people? Because God says that what we consider to be our righteousness is - you know :eek:.

Much love!
I think Jesus was pretty clear. Paul sometimes isn't.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I believe in the "counted for righteousness" part (because it is a truth of God's word) but certainly not at the expense of everything else. I have integrated this truth into my understanding that God desires us to be holy and also provides for us to be holy.

Consider that God imputes righteousness to those who will believe in His promises according to Romans 4:20-22.

If you await the fulfillment of 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; and Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10 in your life: then your belief in these promises is imputed to you as righteousness: because it is certain that if you believe in these promises you will reap the benefits of them in due process of time. So the Lord looks at it from the eternal sense: He sees the finished product based on your faith rather than your performance.

God is the judge. If a man does what is right in Gods eyes, God is the one who judges. He sees the heart, which no one else can. This is why we can't be the judge, only He can.

So to set ourself up as judge, to dare to think we can do that, is dangerous. And yet, this what our indoctrinations cause us to do, be the judge when its above our paygrade. But we can't see inside a heart, we can't see a man's end from his beginning. So we judge outwardly, from what a man professes or doesn't profess. We judge wrongly. And we judge at out own peril. But who will take it to heart?
 
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