The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

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Ezra

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- like claiming YOU are the righteousness of Christ.
i am the righteousness of Christ christ in me the hope of Glory . i was declare righteous the moment i got saved. i been cleansed i been purified sanctified Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.

9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel

i could have said in Christ see at no time did i say it was of my self.. that would b e as filthy rags . your problem is you think one has to be purified after death .........That is wrong. sanctification is the purification process of the inner man . i do wish you would study just bit closer
 

Ezra

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Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE ANY MORE PAIN: for the former things are passed away.

This connotes no more SUFFERING - period.
There can be NO suffering in Heaven because there is NO imperfection (Rev 21:27).

Now - back to 2 Cor. 3:10-15 . . .

- This cannot be Heaven because the person will SUFFER ‐ and there is NO suffering in Heaven.
- This cannot be Hell because the person will be SAVED ‐ and there is NO salvation in Hell.
- This is describing a THIRD state – a state of Final Purification.
lol your so wrong
This is describing a THIRD state – a state of Final Purification
there is NONE
 

Ezra

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The Hail Mary is a plea for her to pray for us.
psst mary can not pray for you that is false doctrine ..the holy spirit interprets the prayers study your Bible

By the way - this is a thread about Purgatory - but in typical, ignorant, anti-Catholic fashion - YOU'VE hijacked it and turned it into yet another idiotic anti-Catholic screed.

Let's get BACK to the subject at hand - IF you are able.
Give us some Biblically-sound refutations of the Scriptural evidence we have presented . . .
so far you been shot down like a duck in the water quack quack
Give us some Biblically-sound refutations of the Scriptural evidence we have presented . . .
i have many times open your eyes
 

Ezra

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a THIRD state – a state of Final Purification
i will give a chance to show in scripture where and when this THIRD state – a state of Final Purification takes place i want scripture that says that .last what do you consider purification
 
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BreadOfLife

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I never said he couldn't, I said he doesn't and never said he did.
THIS is what you said:
"Not to mention, where does this flesh and blood of Christ come from? Is he being ripped apart in Heaven?"

Once again - you seem to lack the faith in God's omnipotence . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Translation : i lap up anything my church shoves down my throat, regardless if it makes any sense at all.
Christ to His Church:

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

If you have a problem with that - take it up with HIM . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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i will give a chance to show in scripture where and when this THIRD state – a state of Final Purification takes place i want scripture that says that .last what do you consider purification
And I already told you TWICE:
Go back and R*E*A*D post #4 where I laid it out.
 

BreadOfLife

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psst mary can not pray for you that is false doctrine ..the holy spirit interprets the prayers study your Bible
Rev. 5:8 shows those in Heaven taking our prayers before God.
Rev. 8:4-5 shows the Angels in Heaven doing the same thing.

Heb.12:1 tells us that "we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" and that we should behave accordingly.
A "witness", by definition is a person who SEES and HEARS - otherwise they are just paperweights.

Do your homework . . .
so far you been shot down like a duck in the water quack quack i have many times open your eyes
STILL waiting for your refutation of the Catholic position on 2 Cor. 10-15 that I laid out in post #4.
Let me know when you're ready to do that . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Again, the Bible never supports transubstantiation.
Wanna bet??

In 1 Cor. 11:27-30, Paul speaks to the reality of the Eucharist and the severity of the consequences to those who take this lightly:
“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.”

This is pretty harsh language for something that you Protestants claim is only a symbol.

This directly correlates to the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6, where Jesus stated in no uncertain terms:
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”


It is interesting to note that the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, however, this is NOT the word used in these passages. St. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, "to rip apart one's food, to gnaw - like an animal". Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was not speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said.

Just as the Paschal Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

In verse 60, his disciples said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"

Did Jesus explain what he "really" meant? No, he said: "Does this shock you?" He knew that some would not believe because they didn't have true faith from the Father.

Read the verses immediately following verse 63 (64-65): But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

Here, Jesus is telling them that unless we are drawn to him by the Father, we cannot possibly understand him. This is why his followers abandoned him and returned to their former way of life in verse 66. This verse says, “As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.”

This marks the only time in Scripture where Jesus' disciples left him for doctrinal reasons. They simply couldn't handle what Jesus was telling them.

It is also important to note what happened after this. Did Jesus plead with them or explain that he was speaking “metaphorically” or “symbolically”? NO. He turned to the Apostles and said, "Do you also want to leave?"
Here it is completely evident - except to those who refuse to see - that Jesus meant what he said.

Finally - at the Last Supper - Jesus stated, "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood."
He did NOT say, "This is only a SYMBOL or a METAPHOR."

The Real Presence in the Eucharist was the UNANIMOUS teaching and belief of the Early Church.
YOUR lack of faith is appalling . . .
 
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reformed1689

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Wanna bet??

In 1 Cor. 11:27-30, Paul speaks to the reality of the Eucharist and the severity of the consequences to those who take this lightly:
“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.”

This is pretty harsh language for something that you Protestants claim is only a symbol.

This directly correlates to the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6, where Jesus stated in no uncertain terms:
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”


It is interesting to note that the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, however, this is NOT the word used in these passages. St. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, "to rip apart one's food, to gnaw - like an animal". Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was not speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said.

Just as the Paschal Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

In verse 60, his disciples said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"

Did Jesus explain what he "really" meant? No, he said: "Does this shock you?" He knew that some would not believe because they didn't have true faith from the Father.

Read the verses immediately following verse 63 (64-65): But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

Here, Jesus is telling them that unless we are drawn to him by the Father, we cannot possibly understand him. This is why his followers abandoned him and returned to their former way of life in verse 66. This verse says, “As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.”

This marks the only time in Scripture where Jesus' disciples left him for doctrinal reasons. They simply couldn't handle what Jesus was telling them.

It is also important to note what happened after this. Did Jesus plead with them or explain that he was speaking “metaphorically” or “symbolically”? NO. He turned to the Apostles and said, "Do you also want to leave?"
Here it is completely evident - except to those who refuse to see - that Jesus meant what he said.

Finally - at the Last Supper - Jesus stated, "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood."
He did NOT say, "This is only a SYMBOL or a METAPHOR."

The Real Presence in the Eucharist was the UNANIMOUS teaching and belief of the Early Church.
YOUR lack of faith is appalling . . .
Dealt with all this nonsense already.
 

Ezra

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Rev. 5:8 shows those in Heaven taking our prayers before God.
Rev. 8:4-5 shows the Angels in Heaven doing the same thing.

Heb.12:1 tells us that "we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" and that we should behave accordingly.
A "witness", by definition is a person who SEES and HEARS - otherwise they are just paperweights.

Do your homework . . .

STILL waiting for your refutation of the Catholic position on 2 Cor. 10-15 that I laid out in post #4.
Let me know when you're ready to do that . . .
i did my home work your catholic doctrine is strawman poof ashes you cant even show where the so called finila purification is.. i haaaaave countered you with plenty scriptures 1st cor 3:10-15 is judgement of works has NOTHING to do with your purification theory ,, why do you twist scriptures around?

Romans 8:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

i sure hope you have fire insurance
Let me know when you're ready to do that . .
sigh i been ready i waited for your reply.. tell you what on second thought i am tired of trying to explain any thing to you. if you had any merit it would be different . your like a mule looking at a new gate .. where did that come from .mary praying for you the biggest problem with that is mary was just a woman used of God . she has no spiritual
authority .have you not ever studied out the role of the holy spirit ??? get something with some strong meat not milk . i will check back if you keep giving me carnal replies . i will no longer waste my time..
 

BreadOfLife

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i did my home work your catholic doctrine is strawman poof ashes you cant even show where the so called finila purification is.. i haaaaave countered you with plenty scriptures 1st cor 3:10-15 is judgement of works has NOTHING to do with your purification theory ,, why do you twist scriptures around?

Romans 8:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

i sure hope you have fire insurance sigh i been ready i waited for your reply.. tell you what on second thought i am tired of trying to explain any thing to you. if you had any merit it would be different . your like a mule looking at a new gate .. where did that come from .mary praying for you the biggest problem with that is mary was just a woman used of God . she has no spiritual
authority .have you not ever studied out the role of the holy spirit ??? get something with some strong meat not milk . i will check back if you keep giving me carnal replies . i will no longer waste my time..
No - refute the Catholic position on 2 Cor. 3:10-15.
Don't introduce other passages until you have refuted this interpretation.

THAT'S how a debate works . . .
 
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