The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

Nondenom40 · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
A NOTE to ALL Anti-Catholics on this thread:

Take note of @Brakelite’s response.

THIS is a valid refutation of the Catholic position I presented regarding 2 Cor. 3:10-15 It is not the usual cowardly, evasive, insult-laden, anti-Catholic pile of manure that I’ve been getting from some of the rest of you.

As to your response – I disagree, as you would expect.

This is talking about the “DAY” (Judgement). It is a review of this life – not a period of time in this life.

Also – it’s not necessarily talking about a literal fire – but a suffering that is compared to a fire.

The only one doing any insulting is you. I'm sure no one is running to be a roman catholic based on your demeanor. You sound very angry. Maybe something happened to you in your past? Either way, you need prayer and a savior. And not the plate sized wafer in your avatar. That is not God, its plain ole bread, and not even good bread. You need delivered, and i pray one day soon you are.

BreadOfLife · Oct 21, 2019

David Taylor said:
Yep and I gave evidence. You don't agree with the evidence, that is your right, but the paper trail is there.

No – the “paper trail” ends with Bishop Albert of Brandenburg – NOT Pope Leo.

Any attempt to connect Pope Leo to this document is wishful thinking.

If you can’t produce hard facts – your case is as impotent as a Nevada Boxing Commissioner . . .

Berserk · Oct 21, 2019

Nondenom40 said:
The only one doing any insulting is you. I'm sure no one is running to be a roman catholic based on your demeanor. You sound very angry. Maybe something happened to you in your past? Either way, you need prayer and a savior. And not the plate sized wafer in your avatar. That is not God, its plain ole bread, and not even good bread. You need delivered, and i pray one day soon you are.

As a witnessing Evangelical, I totally sympathize with BoL's demeanor, given the nauseating ad hominems constantly directed his way by your ilk. Your bigotry is eloquently displayed by your patronizing comment, "you need prayer and a savior." Your disrespect of how God's awesome grace is mediated through the act of Holy Communion makes it more likely that it is you who needs prayer. You trivialize this holy act by mocking the symbolism as "plain old bread...not God." Your mockery trivializes Jesus' teaching that the act of Holy Communion establishes or reestablishes an intimate mystical bond with the Savior by empowering us "to abide in Me, and I in them:"

"My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in Me, and I in them (John 6:55-56)."

Your just-a-ritual attitude reminds me of a congregation I pastored that strongly objected to my desire that they celebrate Holy Communion more than 4 times a year. When I urged them to have Communion once a month, they complained, "But then we would get sick of it!" By contrast, the regular Holy Communion at weekly Mass is revered by Catholics as an ever fresh reminder of the privilege of benefitting from God's grace and as a way of renewing their intimate connection with Christ in a life-changing way. Your attitude encourages unworthy participation in the Lord's Supper:

"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread and drinks the cup in an unworthy manner, will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord...For all who eat and drink without discerning the Body, eat and drink judgment against themselves. For this reason, many of you are weak and sick, and some have died (1 Corinthians 11:27-30)."

These dire consequences of unworthy participation in Communion demonstrate that it is intended as a far more mystical and life-changing experience than your merely symbolic interpretation allows. I am struck by the effective role of Holy Communion in the climax of the most famous exorcism of the 20th century, which inspired the horror movie, The Exorcist." When the possessed Protestant boy volunteered to take Communion from a Catholic priest, the power of Satan was broken. There was an explosion of blue light that was witnessed in a church across the street and the possessed boy was freed from his demonic possession.

Now I don't lierally subscribe to the Catholic doctrine of Transubstantiation, which is based on Thomistic Aristotelianism. But I judge doctrines by their faith empowerment. In my observation, Evangelicals don't experience a renewed intimate connection with Christ from the perspective of His atoning sacrifice as preciously as Catholics do.

BreadOfLife · Oct 21, 2019

Nondenom40 said:
The only one doing any insulting is you. I'm sure no one is running to be a roman catholic based on your demeanor. You sound very angry. Maybe something happened to you in your past? Either way, you need prayer and a savior. And not the plate sized wafer in your avatar. That is not God, its plain ole bread, and not even good bread. You need delivered, and i pray one day soon you are.

It STILL cracks me up after 16 years of exposing people like you online what incredible hypocrisy you espouse.

You spew non-stop hatred and unsubstantiated lies about the Catholic Church – yet when a guy like ME comes around and exposes you for it – all of a sudden, he’s “angry” or “mean”.

If you can’t stand the heat – then stop lying.
Then maybe, people like me will leave you alone . . .

reformed1689 · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
If you can’t stand the heat – then stop lying.

I wish you would stop lying.

BreadOfLife · Oct 21, 2019

David Taylor said:
I wish you would stop lying.

History is on my side.
Indulgences were sold but it was an abuse - NOT the norm and NOT sanctioned by the Church.

Move on to something you can prove . . .

Ezra · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
Once again – Final Purification (Purgatory) has absolutely nothing to do with “second chances”.

Everybody who is to receive Final Purification is destined to enter Heaven – and ONLY because of what Christ did on the cross. YOUR continual failure to understand this shows me that you don’t have a grasp on this doctrine – and are therefore not qualified to debate it.

keep drinking that kool aid i noticed you failed to address 1 john 1:7 the Blood cleanses from ALL SINS how many ? ALL the only reason you say i am not qualified is because i have held your feet to the fire. countering your mythology.. happy trails to you hope you have enough kool aid to sustain your fantasy island tour . i hope all catholics are not as blind as you are

BreadOfLife · Oct 21, 2019

Ezra said:
keep drinking that kool aid i noticed you failed to address 1 john 1:7 the Blood cleanses from ALL SINS how many ? ALL the only reason you say i am not qualified is because i have held your feet to the fire. countering your mythology.. happy trails to you hope you have enough kool aid to sustain your fantasy island tour . i hope all catholics are not as blind as you are

John 1:7 doesn’t negate Final Purification (Purgatory).
Is BECAUSE of Christ’s sacrifice that we are able to be purified.

Here is the question:
NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven (Rev. 21:27).

Are YOU perfect or perfectly pure?
If the answer is “No” – how would you get propose getting into Heaven without first being purified by God’s refining fire?

NOTHING imperfect or impure gets into Heaven – not even Luther’s “snow-covered dunghills” . . .

Ezra · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
John 1:7 doesn’t negate Final Purification (Purgatory).
Is BECAUSE of Christ’s sacrifice that we are able to be purified.

Here is the question:
NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven (Rev. 21:27).

Are YOU perfect or perfectly pure?
If the answer is “No” – how would you get propose getting into Heaven without first being purified by God’s refining fire?

NOTHING imperfect or impure gets into Heaven – not even Luther’s “snow-covered dunghills” . . .

are you a heretic. Hebrews 9:14 - how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? the blood purifies cleans

Matthew 10:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city...

sorry as long as you reject the cleansing power of the blood that cleans us from all sins.. no purgatory not finial purification . your house is not worthy so i dust my feet off at you and move on

Nondenom40 · Oct 21, 2019

Berserk said:
As a witnessing Evangelical, I totally sympathize with BoL's demeanor, given the nauseating ad hominems constantly directed his way by your ilk.

Like what? Link us to anything rising to the level as bol.

Your bigotry is eloquently displayed by your patronizing comment, "you need prayer and a savior."

So its bigoted and patronizing to tell someone they need prayer? Got it. So you never pray for anyone because it would be 'bigoted and patronizing'?

Your disrespect of how God's awesome grace is mediated through the act of Holy Communion makes it more likely that it is you who needs prayer. You trivialize this holy act by mocking the symbolism as "plain old bread...not God." Your mockery trivializes Jesus' teaching that the act of Holy Communion establishes or reestablishes an intimate mystical bond with the Savior by empowering us "to abide in Me, and I in them:"

Not a single person in the n.t. lifted up a wafer and said 'heres god, worship'. God doesn't indwell food, but His people..."Christ in YOU the hope of glory." Not 'christ in a wafer, the hope of glory.' Surely you can see the difference.

"My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in Me, and I in them (John 6:55-56)."

I love how when you people argue this its like your bibles only have like 4 verses in Jn 6. You all start around verse 51 forgetting or hoping we forget that there are 50 verses BEFORE the usual verses quoted. If this isn't isolating and cherry picking i don't know what is.

Your just-a-ritual attitude reminds me of a congregation I pastored that strongly objected to my desire that they celebrate Holy Communion more than 4 times a year. When I urged them to have Communion once a month, they complained, "But then we would get sick of it!"

Maybe the issue was the pastor not the people? People with that attitude strike me as immature believers. Its the pastors job to educate, blaming the congregation speaks volumes.

By contrast, the regular Holy Communion at weekly Mass is revered by Catholics as an ever fresh reminder of the privilege of benefitting from God's grace and as a way of renewing their intimate connection with Christ in a life-changing way.

Catholic communion is blasphemy to God! Regardless of how pious they pretend to be shuffling up to eat god, its a completely unbiblical, pagan act.

Your attitude encourages unworthy participation in the Lord's Supper:

I haven't commented on participation in the Lords Table once. Now youre inventing things to rail against. Youre a pastor right?

"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread and drinks the cup in an unworthy manner, will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord...For all who eat and drink without discerning the Body, eat and drink judgment against themselves. For this reason, many of you are weak and sick, and some have died (1 Corinthians 11:27-30)."

These dire consequences of unworthy participation in Communion demonstrate that it is intended as a far more mystical and life-changing experience than your merely symbolic interpretation allows.

Please enlighten us as to how one partakes unworthily. Maybe thinking they'd 'get sick of it'? Do you believe a wafer is literally god?

I am struck by the effective role of Holy Communion in the climax of the most famous exorcism of the 20th century, which inspired the horror movie, The Exorcist." When the possessed Protestant boy volunteered to take Communion from a Catholic priest, the power of Satan was broken. There was an explosion of blue light that was witnessed in a church across the street and the possessed boy was freed from his demonic possession.

Youre citing hollywood to prop up the catholic blasphemy of god in a wafer? Seriously?

Now I don't lierally subscribe to the Catholic doctrine of Transubstantiation, which is based on Thomistic Aristotelianism.

What? Do you know how offensive it is to disagree with catholic doctrine? Their faux outrage will spill over here pretty soon, get ready for the onslaught. In fact their faux outrage will look about the same as yours.

But I judge doctrines by their faith empowerment. In my observation, Evangelicals don't experience a renewed intimate connection with Christ from the perspective of His atoning sacrifice as preciously as Catholics do.

Then youre judging doctrines by the wrong standard. Maybe its a good thing youre not pastoring that church anymore. And if youre born again, you should be experiencing an intimate connection every single day, all day! We understand His atoning work, catholics don't as they think they atone for their own sins...ccc 1459, 1475. You need to brush up on your catholicism.

Nondenom40 · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
It STILL cracks me up after 16 years of exposing people like you online what incredible hypocrisy you espouse.

You spew non-stop hatred and unsubstantiated lies about the Catholic Church – yet when a guy like ME comes around and exposes you for it – all of a sudden, he’s “angry” or “mean”.

If you can’t stand the heat – then stop lying.
Then maybe, people like me will leave you alone . . .

Case in point. I'll keep praying for you.

BreadOfLife · Oct 21, 2019

Ezra said:
are you a heretic. Hebrews 9:14 - how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? the blood purifies cleans

Matthew 10:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city...

sorry as long as you reject the cleansing power of the blood that cleans us from all sins.. no purgatory not finial purification . your house is not worthy so i dust my feet off at you and move on

And there it is – wanton cowardice in its purest form.

I have received nothing but evasion, closed minds and anti-Catholic nonsense from YOU, @David Taylor and @Nondenom40 for several pages now.

NONE of you has had the courage to address the Catholic position on 2 Cor. 10-15 – except for @brakelite.

I have explained to you repeatedly that this doctrine does NOT deny Christ’s atoning sacrifice – yet with closed mind, closed ears and open mouth – you have openly refused to discuss anything rationally. Now, you symbolically “shake the dust” of your sandals – without ever having addressed the point.

Maybe one of your more Informed fellow anti-Catholics will step up to the plate and actually address the points made on this thread.

NNNNNNEXT . . .

BreadOfLife · Oct 21, 2019

Nondenom40 said:
Case in point. I'll keep praying for you.

Thanks.
I'll ask my brothers and sisters in Heaven to pray for you, too . . .

Ezra · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
I have received nothing but evasion, closed minds and anti-Catholic nonsense from YOU, @David Taylor and @Nondenom40 for several pages now.

NONE of you has had the courage to address the Catholic position on 2 Cor. 10-15 – except for @brakelite.

have you fell down and hit your head? we have done nothing but refute your Catholic position on 2 Cor. 10-15 . i have showed you scripture upon scripture, yet you have more excuses than jimmy carter had peanuts

I have received nothing but evasion, closed minds and anti-Catholic nonsense from YOU,

you do have that right except the closed mind... dude you refuse any thing that counters catholic teaching .it is your mind who is closed and your purgatory is as fake as $ 4.00 bill .keep drinking the kool aid

Nondenom40 · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
Thanks.
I'll ask my brothers and sisters in Heaven to pray for you, too . . .

They can't hear you. Another ineffective practice found nowhere in the bible.

Ezra · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
Thanks.
I'll ask my brothers and sisters in Heaven to pray for you, too . . .

loo more false teaching they cant pray for you.. ask mary

Nondenom40 · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
And there it is – wanton cowardice in its purest form.

I have received nothing but evasion, closed minds and anti-Catholic nonsense from YOU, @David Taylor and @Nondenom40 for several pages now.

NONE of you has had the courage to address the Catholic position on 2 Cor. 10-15 – except for @brakelite.

I have explained to you repeatedly that this doctrine does NOT deny Christ’s atoning sacrifice – yet with closed mind, closed ears and open mouth – you have openly refused to discuss anything rationally. Now, you symbolically “shake the dust” of your sandals – without ever having addressed the point.

Maybe one of your more Informed fellow anti-Catholics will step up to the plate and actually address the points made on this thread.

NNNNNNEXT . . .

The 'catholic position'? Purgatory is where you go to atone for your own sins.
The biblical position? Purgatory doesn't exist. Jesus atones for 100% of our sins.

BreadOfLife · Oct 21, 2019

Ezra said:
have you fell down and hit your head? we have done nothing but refute your Catholic position on 2 Cor. 10-15 . i have showed you scripture upon scripture, yet you have more excuses than jimmy carter had peanuts you do have that right except the closed mind... dude you refuse any thing that counters catholic teaching .it is your mind who is closed and your purgatory is as fake as $ 4.00 bill .keep drinking the kool aid

I didn't ask you for "Scripture upon Scripture".
I asked you to refute the Catholic position in 2 Cor. 3:10-15 that I laid out in post #4.

I asked you ONLY to address 2 Cor. 3:10-15 and NOT to bombard me with irrelevant verses.
We can address those AFTER you address 2 Cor. 3:10-15.

Ezra · Oct 21, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
I asked you to refute the Catholic position in 2 Cor. 3:10-15 that I laid out in post #4.

I asked you ONLY to address 2 Cor. 3:10-15 and NOT to bombard me with irrelevant verses.
We can address those AFTER you address 2 Cor. 3:10-15.

lol i have addressed your false interpretation of 2 Cor. 3:10-15 so many times i lost count .. ask your people in heaven who knows maybe the poop will declare you did a miracle and make you a saint long after your dead .. your catholic mythology is dead dead dead r.i.p

BreadOfLife · Oct 21, 2019

Ezra said:
loo more false teaching they cant pray for you.. ask mary

Nondenom40 said:
They can't hear you. Another ineffective practice found nowhere in the bible.

NOT according to Rev. 5:8 . . .

When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

And Rev. 8:3-4 . . .
Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

Do yourself a favor - stop hating and STUDY God's Word . . .

The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

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