Why is the "Imputed righteousness" scheme so seductive?

Oh, barf!

stunnedbygrace said:

No, he has not claimed it. That's what you read into what he said. And by now it should be obvious to you that He has you on ignore or is just not going to speak with or answer you any more, so I think you will be waiting a long time.

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Actually, he's explained that in some detail. Perhaps you've not read the same posts as me.

Whether episkopos wishes to respond or not is up to him.

No he has not said he was examined and approved and can now judge unbelievers. No sir, he has not. That is what you read into what he said.

stunnedbygrace said:

No he has not said he was examined and approved and can now judge unbelievers. No sir, he has not. That is what you read into what he said.

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Like I've said, if episkopos cares to chime in, let him.

Ask him why that name. And why "episkopay" on other forums.

Ask him how it is that he believes that he understands the real meaning of the Bible and the rest of us don't.

I've been paying attention.

Ask him this . . . "have you been visited and approved for ministry by God?" and "What does that mean exactly?"

@stunnedbygrace . . . just fyi . . .

BTW...my username has to do with "visitation" from God. God is the inspector of our lives. He judges us now so that we escape judgment later. Only those who have been vetted in this way can then inspect the church as an overseer.

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Lawless Ones subverting the truth in Christ.

Later in this thread, when someone disputes his claim, he calls it "railing against authority."

Lawless Ones subverting the truth in Christ.

Episkopos said:

You are wrong of course! I am an overseer in a Christian community and have been appointed by God as such.I have been a full time worker for the past 10 years or so.

But this is not why I have the username Episkopos. I can't explain what God has shown me about the way He guides us and bestows authority. But my username is to commemorate His visitation....which is the deeper meaning of "Episkopay". On a forum such as this where anything goes...I cannot share the wonderful things that God bestows on His people.

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God appointed episkopos as overseer.
He has now been "vetted" by God, and can inspect the church.
This gives him authority over other.

Let him deny it. Here are just a few examples. I think he really believes this.

Thank you for giving me another thread of his to read. I don't think I ever saw that one. I read the two posts you quoted. I think they are good.

stunnedbygrace said:

Thank you for giving me another thread of his to read. I don't think I ever saw that one. I read the two posts you quoted. I think they are good.

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Then you see what I'm saying.

in another post a poster about had a aneurysm over my statement i am the righteous of Christ and we are BUT not on our Christ is our righteousness And of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1 cor 1:30 anything we do on our own to be righteous is as filthy rags Ezekiel says he will give us a new heart and a heart to know him. we have to allow him to produce the righteousness in us. we are to abide in him stay attached to the true vine . i just did a small study on this and it goes real deep . might i add the filthy rags that isaiah refers to is compared to a sanitary cloth after a woman is through with it

Episkopos said:

But if everyone has the righteousness of God on them why all the fighting and hatred? Where are all the miracles in God and from God.

OR....are people so deceived that even in their unrighteousness they claim to have the righteousness of God? Can a person be more deceived than that?

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you proposed some heavy remarks/ questions not everyone has righteousness .but how ever if we are truly saved we have righteousness because of Christ in us the hope of Glory . see i compare this righteousness we have as in the 3 steps of being sanctified. 1. positional -saved set apart 2. progressive we become a work in progress which never end we have to grow in him. . 3 ultimate we made it home full sanctified/glorified body.. the old man has fully died . many things i cant explain our flesh / old nature has to be guarded / crucified with Christ. this is no excuse but some times are button gets hit and the old man comes out.. the good news is found in 1 john 1:7 & 9 of course there are others put them 2 are my favorite . so maybe we are not as righteous as we think .not saying were not saved. but we need to go back to the potters wheel and be refashioned by the masters loving hand. last but not least --Righteousness is a deep and big subject . one thing for sure with out Christ we are nothing . i like this chorus i often sing to my self..
all my hope is in jesus
thank God my yesterday is gone

all my sins are forgiven
i been washed by the blood


i am thankful for when i sin i have a advocate amen

Episkopos said:

OR....are people so deceived that even in their unrighteousness they claim to have the righteousness of God? Can a person be more deceived than that?

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there is deception matthew 7:20-21 i think it is not everyone who say Lord Lord

Episkopos said:

All we do...compared with God...is as filthy rags yes. Our strength is nothing compared to God. So then nobody has any strength at all right? Nobody can pick up a glass of water to help someone in need? We need for a supernatural power on us to lift that glass of water. And so goes the ridiculous illogic of religious doctrines.

But if everyone has the righteousness of God on them why all the fighting and hatred? Where are all the miracles in God and from God.

OR....are people so deceived that even in their unrighteousness they claim to have the righteousness of God? Can a person be more deceived than that?

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If the light you think you have is really darkness...

justbyfaith said:

Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father except by me.

I don't know how you interpret that; but I interpret it to mean that the only way to salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ.

I do not presume to judge the end of any singular person's life.

But I do believe that anyone who does not place their faith in Jesus' finished work on the Cross in the context of their life will find themselves in hell as the result of their day of judgment; for their sins are not forgiven.

This is not what I am saying; it is what the Bible teaches.

If my judgment is in agreement with the Lord's judgment, then I am simply agreeing with the Lord about His judgments which He has declared in His word.

How then do you presume to judge me as though I were the one doing the judging?

For I am simply agreeing with God concerning His judgment.

If I proclaim what this judgment is to others in order that they may avoid being judged by Him in the fashion that He describes, is that not love?

For they now have an opportunity to turn to Jesus Christ and be forgiven of their sin(s). Thus, if they do this, they "shall not come into condemnation." John 5:24.

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stunnedbygrace said:

Oh, barf!

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What, exactly, is it, that you don't like about what I said above?

justbyfaith said:

What, exactly, is it, that you don't like about what I said above?

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Ignore it, that's my suggestion.

If someone can't be bothered to say more than what amounts to just throwing a rock, let it bounce off.

OzSpen said:

That is not what Rom 4:5 teaches: 'But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness' (NASB).

The Christian person who 'believes in Him' is justified (declared righteous) because the Christian's 'faith is credited (reckoned) as righteousness'.

Imputed righteousness related to the declaration of the righteousness on undeserving people who become believers. It is imputed righteousness, thanks to Christ's sacrificial death.

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Such a great and important truth in the New Testament, with Old Testament roots also with the faith of Abraham, etc.

OzSpen said:

That is not my understanding of imputed righteousness, which is God declaring me righteous in Christ.

Evangelical theologian, Wayne Grudem, explained:

When we say that God imputes Christ's righteousness to us it means that God thinks of Christ's righteousness as belonging to us, or regards it as belonging to us. He "reckons" it to our account. We read, "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness' (Rom 4:3)....

When Adam sinned, his guilt was imputed to us; God the Father viewed it as our sins, our sin was imputed to Christ.... Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, and therefore God thinks of it as belonging to us (Systematic Theology 1994:726, emphases in original).​

Oz

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Gruden is well spoken of, among Bible students; his Systematic Theology has sold over half a million copies. I'm a little hesitant about heavy reliance on logic to prove theological propositions; but certainly it's good to have a thorough approach to studying doctrine.

marks said:

Ignore it, that's my suggestion.

If someone can't be bothered to say more than what amounts to just throwing a rock, let it bounce off.

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Lots of rocks bouncing around all the time...

stunnedbygrace said:

Because of the beauty bestowed on us, will we now be lifted up?

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Where did you learn of this?

faithfulness said:

Where did you learn of this?

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I don't know...it's too many interconnections to explain. Roughly though, Gods blessings magnify what is in us and...an inheritance got too early is not always a good thing.