Once Saved Always Saved ?

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Letsgofishing

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yet another repeating post from me.but it does tend to disprove osas...quoting about half the bible
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"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven."
[url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+7%3A21]Matthew 7:21[/url]
If once saved always saved is truly taught in the bible how do you explain these verses.​
Pure In Heart Shall See God
• "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A3]Matthew 5:3[/url].​
• "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A5]Matthew 5:5[/url].​
• "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A8]Matthew 5:8[/url].​
• "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A20]Matthew 5:20[/url].​
• "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+7%3A21]Matthew 7:21[/url].​
• "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+10%3A22]Matthew 10:22[/url].​
• "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+18%3A3]Matthew 18:3[/url].​
• "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+24%3A13]Matthew 24:13[/url].​
• "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Mark+16%3A16]Mark 16:16[/url].​
• "And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+10%3A25-28]Luke 10:25-28[/url].​
• "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A3]John 3:3[/url].​
• "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A5]John 3:5[/url].​
• "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A16]John 3:16[/url].​
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+5%3A24]John 5:24[/url].​
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+6%3A47]John 6:47[/url].​
• "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+6%3A54]John 6:54[/url].​
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+12%3A24]John 12:24, 25[/url].​
• "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+2%3A21]Acts 2:21[/url].​
• "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+2%3A13]Romans 2:13[/url].​
• "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+10%3A9]Romans 10:9[/url].​
• "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ephesians+2%3A8]Ephesians 2:8[/url].​
• "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+4%3A8]2 Timothy 4:8[/url].​
• "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+5%3A8]Hebrews 5:8, 9[/url].​
• "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=James+1%3A12]James 1:12[/url].​
• "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?" [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=James+2%3A5]James 2:5[/url].​
• "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+4%3A17]1 Peter 4:17, 18[/url].​
• "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+John+5%3A11]1 John 5:11, 12[/url].​
"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jude+1%3A21]Jude 1:21[/url].​
• "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+2%3A7]Revelation 2:7[/url].​
• "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+2%3A10]Revelation 2:10[/url].​
• "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+2%3A11]Revelation 2:11[/url].​
• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A5]Revelation 3:5[/url].​
• "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A11]Revelation 3:11[/url].​
• "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A21]Revelation 3:21[/url].​
• "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+21%3A7]Revelation 21:7[/url].​
• "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+22%3A12]Revelation 22:12[/url].​
• "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+22%3A14]Revelation 22:14[/url].​
• "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ezekiel+18%3A4]Ezekiel 18:4[/url].​
There Are No Shortcuts
The bottom line in all of this is, if we are going to spend eternity with Jesus, we must be born again, meek, love him, pure in heart, converted, baptized, born of the water and the spirit, do the will of our Father, do His commandments, be an overcomer, be obedient, endureth temptation, etc. There are no shortcuts to heaven... If there were, Jesus would not have had to come to this earth, and die for us. We can trace all of the misery and suffering in the world today back to one person's disobedience in the Garden of Eden. If God were to take one unrepentant sinner to heaven with Him, sin would rise up again.​
Did you notice in [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A5]Revelation 3:5[/url] that unless you are an overcomer, Jesus will blot your name out of the book of life.The book of life contains the names of all who have ever entered the service of God. Jesus bade His disciples, "Rejoice, because your names are written in heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+10%3A20]Luke 10:20[/url]. Paul speaks of his faithful fellow workers, "Whose names are in the book of life." Phil. 4:3. So if we had only one verse in all of the Bible to show that a person can lose his salvation and that it is conditional, it would be this verse, Revelation 3:5.​
Now lets look at the following verses from [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+John+3%3A2-15]1 John 3:2-15[/url]. These verses really go into depth regarding the born again person. Please look at the whole chapter from your Bible and read it.​
1 [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A2-15]John 3:2-15[/url]
2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."​
3 "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."​
4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."​
5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."​
6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."​
7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."​
8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."​
9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."​
10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."​
15 "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." your brother in christ Ryan fitz
 

RichardBurger

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Using the Law: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gospelchatPaul says this about using the law in I Timothy:8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. So what is the "proper" use of the law? Let's look at this verse itself:We also know that the law is not made for the righteous..."This not only answers the question as to whether Jesus was subject to the law, but also those who trust in Him. Are we not "righteous through faith" when we believe in the salvation that He offers? Are we not accounted holy before God? This, I believe, is exactly what Paul meant when he wrote:Christ is the end of the law that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.Christ is the end of the law so that there MAY be righteousness for all who believe. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness because we are ALREADY righteous before God in Him, and the law was not made for the righteous.To place the believer back under the law is not a proper use of the law. It is also an abrogation of that faith which tells us that Christ is, indeed, the end of the law.In summary: 1. The law is good if it is used properly.2. The law was not made for the righteous. Those who are in Christ are righteous--by faith. 3. Thus, to place those who are righteous by faith under the law is an improper use of the law.4. One cannot "uphold" the law if one uses it improperly.Posted by Richard
 

RichardBurger

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Obviously those that do not believe in OSAS have to say Jesus lied when He said the following:John 10:27-3027 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one." NKJVRichard
 

Jordan

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Obviously those that do not believe in OSAS have to say Jesus lied when He said the following:John 10:27-3027 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one." NKJVRichard
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity....Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:Amos 8:12 - And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it....(thesuperjag;10034)
Writer the OSAS doctrine is so deceiving and it is made by man. And I don't need a scripture to support this common sense. For ensample, When I accepted Jesus into my heart, I became saved... Now if I turn my back on my Saviour and I became a wiccan (an example) and never want Him again...then I am going to say that I was never truly saved at all...therefore the OSAS doctrine needs to be discarded.
 

tomwebster

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...John 10:27-3027 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one." NKJVRichard

Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity....Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:Amos 8:12 - And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Both of these quotes are from Scripture and they are both true so the question is, who are "My sheep?" I think there are many people that think they are "sheep" that are not. They think they are "saved" but they have not the "truth." They believe in the Christ of crucified and risen but not in Christ as the Word of God (all of it).I have said this before somewhere, and I still believe salvation is more than believing Christ "crucified and risen." I think salvation has more to do with knowing the Word of God.
 

Christina

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Ageed Tom we should never base our believe in one verse if theres a contrdictory verse as there are no contradictions in the Word of God when we find one its us ......thats missing something there are many verses that contradict a OSAS doctrine God tells us only one truth its up to us to find it not base our belief on one or the other contrdictory verses
 

crooner

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yet another repeating post from me.but it does tend to disprove osas...quoting about half the bible
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"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven."
[url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+7%3A21]Matthew 7:21[/url]
If once saved always saved is truly taught in the bible how do you explain these verses.​
Pure In Heart Shall See God
• "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A3]Matthew 5:3[/url].​
• "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A5]Matthew 5:5[/url].​
• "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A8]Matthew 5:8[/url].​
• "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+5%3A20]Matthew 5:20[/url].​
• "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+7%3A21]Matthew 7:21[/url].​
• "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+10%3A22]Matthew 10:22[/url].​
• "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+18%3A3]Matthew 18:3[/url].​
• "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+24%3A13]Matthew 24:13[/url].​
• "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Mark+16%3A16]Mark 16:16[/url].​
• "And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+10%3A25-28]Luke 10:25-28[/url].​
• "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A3]John 3:3[/url].​
• "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A5]John 3:5[/url].​
• "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A16]John 3:16[/url].​
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+5%3A24]John 5:24[/url].​
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+6%3A47]John 6:47[/url].​
• "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+6%3A54]John 6:54[/url].​
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+12%3A24]John 12:24, 25[/url].​
• "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+2%3A21]Acts 2:21[/url].​
• "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+2%3A13]Romans 2:13[/url].​
• "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+10%3A9]Romans 10:9[/url].​
• "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ephesians+2%3A8]Ephesians 2:8[/url].​
• "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=2+Timothy+4%3A8]2 Timothy 4:8[/url].​
• "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Hebrews+5%3A8]Hebrews 5:8, 9[/url].​
• "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=James+1%3A12]James 1:12[/url].​
• "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?" [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=James+2%3A5]James 2:5[/url].​
• "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+Peter+4%3A17]1 Peter 4:17, 18[/url].​
• "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+John+5%3A11]1 John 5:11, 12[/url].​
"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jude+1%3A21]Jude 1:21[/url].​
• "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+2%3A7]Revelation 2:7[/url].​
• "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+2%3A10]Revelation 2:10[/url].​
• "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+2%3A11]Revelation 2:11[/url].​
• "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A5]Revelation 3:5[/url].​
• "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A11]Revelation 3:11[/url].​
• "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A21]Revelation 3:21[/url].​
• "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+21%3A7]Revelation 21:7[/url].​
• "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+22%3A12]Revelation 22:12[/url].​
• "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+22%3A14]Revelation 22:14[/url].​
• "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ezekiel+18%3A4]Ezekiel 18:4[/url].​
There Are No Shortcuts
The bottom line in all of this is, if we are going to spend eternity with Jesus, we must be born again, meek, love him, pure in heart, converted, baptized, born of the water and the spirit, do the will of our Father, do His commandments, be an overcomer, be obedient, endureth temptation, etc. There are no shortcuts to heaven... If there were, Jesus would not have had to come to this earth, and die for us. We can trace all of the misery and suffering in the world today back to one person's disobedience in the Garden of Eden. If God were to take one unrepentant sinner to heaven with Him, sin would rise up again.​
Did you notice in [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+3%3A5]Revelation 3:5[/url] that unless you are an overcomer, Jesus will blot your name out of the book of life.The book of life contains the names of all who have ever entered the service of God. Jesus bade His disciples, "Rejoice, because your names are written in heaven." [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+10%3A20]Luke 10:20[/url]. Paul speaks of his faithful fellow workers, "Whose names are in the book of life." Phil. 4:3. So if we had only one verse in all of the Bible to show that a person can lose his salvation and that it is conditional, it would be this verse, Revelation 3:5.​
Now lets look at the following verses from [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=1+John+3%3A2-15]1 John 3:2-15[/url]. These verses really go into depth regarding the born again person. Please look at the whole chapter from your Bible and read it.​
1 [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+3%3A2-15]John 3:2-15[/url]
2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."​
3 "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."​
4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."​
5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."​
6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."​
7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."​
8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."​
9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."​
10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."​
15 "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." your brother in christ Ryan fitz
FritzDo you understand the gospel? Old covenants and new covenants?? If you did you wouldnt be mixing old covenant scripture with new wine. I would suggest you buy and read Destine to Reign by Joseph Prince. It will help you understand grace. You will not be able to put it down.
 

Christina

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Please explain what you talking about crooner where are you getting this ?? what verses are speaking of ?
 

tomwebster

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crooner,Why would you want to reads some mans idea of what Scripture means when you can read it for yourself?
 

Jordan

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(Christina;67311)
(tomwebster;67310)
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...John 10:27-3027 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one." NKJVRichard
(Jordan;67309)
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity....Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:Amos 8:12 - And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Both of these quotes are from Scripture and they are both true so the question is, who are "My sheep?" I think there are many people that think they are "sheep" that are not. They think they are "saved" but they have not the "truth." They believe in the Christ of crucified and risen but not in Christ as the Word of God (all of it).I have said this before somewhere, and I still believe salvation is more than believing Christ "crucified and risen." I think salvation has more to do with knowing the Word of God.Ageed Tom we should never base our believe in one verse if theres a contrdictory verse as there are no contradictions in the Word of God when we find one its us ......thats missing something there are many verses that contradict a OSAS doctrine God tells us only one truth its up to us to find it not base our belief on one or the other contrdictory versesTom, you hit the nail in the head.Christina, I agree with both of you guys... to believe part of the bible (II Peter 1:20) and not the whole thing (Psalm 40:7, Hebrews 10:7, John 5:39, II Timothy 2:15) will 100% get us in trouble with God if we are alive full and well if we have literally have the option to study, but refused to do so. May I repeat these scriptures?Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity....Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:Amos 8:12 - And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
 

GodzGirll

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Wow. What a lot to read. lol I actually skipped over a lot. My bad.
biggrin.gif
Forgive me? I just have to say something... (When do I not have something to say? my friends would say "NEVER") hehe.I actually have a Grandmother who feels that once you’re saved, you’re always saved. I have tried to tell her that is not true but she won’t hear it. She used to be Christian but fell away (after my Grandpa's death). Now she is in a relationship with a man who fills her head with similar things.He is worse. The boyfriend. He believes that once you obtain salvation, you can never lose it. You can drink, have sexual relations without marriage, and live FOR the world and not FOR God and still enter heaven.Humph!Actually, this guy thinks he is better than women. That NO WOMAN can speak to him about God or know more than him. He doesn't believe in women speakers. Basically, we are worthless to him. He won’t even come to my Mother's house because he is not the "man" of the house. Ehh...Okay, went a little off topic.I totally believe that you can lose your salvation. Being saved is not really what you say, it's what you feel. If you turn your heart against Christ and do you own thing, you are giving the gift of salvation back to God.Let's say...Jesus holds the present of salvation in his hands. The gift is wrapped in the most beautiful wrapping paper, ribbon, and bows. He stands before you with a smile on his face. His eyes are full of love and mercy. He extends the gift and you accept it with ALL your heart. You unwrap the gift and apply it to your life. But when you choose to turn away from God, it's like taking that gift, approaching Jesus, and giving it back.... wanting nothing to do with it.I believe people believe the "once saved always saved" thing because they want to live their own life and have peace (about where they will go when they die) at the same time. They don't want to face that they both change and give themselves with all their heart to God or face going to hell. Lost people run away from things that make them look bad.I came up with this conclusion from experience. I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me.
 

Christina

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Thats why God says Lo I come in the Book not whatever one verse here and there that one can picks and choses that he will follow it must all work together without contradictions. Or we have something wrong ..Not God.. This is the very cause of division ...failure to get to the understanding of Whole of the BOOK
 

Christina

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Wow. What a lot to read. lol I actually skipped over a lot. My bad.
biggrin.gif
Forgive me? I just have to say something... (When do I not have something to say? my friends would say "NEVER") hehe.I actually have a Grandmother who feels that once you’re saved, you’re always saved. I have tried to tell her that is not true but she won’t hear it. She used to be Christian but fell away (after my Grandpa's death). Now she is in a relationship with a man who fills her head with similar things.He is worse. The boyfriend. He believes that once you obtain salvation, you can never lose it. You can drink, have sexual relations without marriage, and live FOR the world and not FOR God and still enter heaven.Humph!Actually, this guy thinks he is better than women. That NO WOMAN can speak to him about God or know more than him. He doesn't believe in women speakers. Basically, we are worthless to him. He won’t even come to my Mother's house because he is not the "man" of the house. Ehh...Okay, went a little off topic.I totally believe that you can lose your salvation. Being saved is not really what you say, it's what you feel. If you turn your heart against Christ and do you own thing, you are giving the gift of salvation back to God.Let's say...Jesus holds the present of salvation in his hands. The gift is wrapped in the most beautiful wrapping paper, ribbon, and bows. He stands before you with a smile on his face. His eyes are full of love and mercy. He extends the gift and you accept it with ALL your heart. You unwrap the gift and apply it to your life. But when you choose to turn away from God, it's like taking that gift, approaching Jesus, and giving it back.... wanting nothing to do with it.I believe people believe the "once saved always saved" thing because they want to live their own life and have peace (about where they will go when they die) at the same time. They don't want to face that they both change and give themselves with all their heart to God or face going to hell. Lost people run away from things that make them look bad.I came up with this conclusion from experience. I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me.
I agree with you Godzgirl What God has given us is the promise of Salvation IF and thats the key IF we keep our part if we do not keep our part of the promise staying in his way in his Word its us that has broken the promise not God. What does God say to those who preach a false doctrine ..follow the wrong Christ ... broke our promise to him Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

Jordan

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Thats why God says Lo I come in the Book not whatever one verse here and there that one can picks and choses that he will follow it must all work together without contradictions. Or we have something wrong ..Not God.. This is the very cause of division ...failure to get to the understanding of Whole of the BOOK
Psalm 40:7 - Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,Hebrews 10:7 - Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.(Christina;67322)
(GodzGirll;67320)
Wow. What a lot to read. lol I actually skipped over a lot. My bad.
biggrin.gif
Forgive me? I just have to say something... (When do I not have something to say? my friends would say "NEVER") hehe.I actually have a Grandmother who feels that once you’re saved, you’re always saved. I have tried to tell her that is not true but she won’t hear it. She used to be Christian but fell away (after my Grandpa's death). Now she is in a relationship with a man who fills her head with similar things.He is worse. The boyfriend. He believes that once you obtain salvation, you can never lose it. You can drink, have sexual relations without marriage, and live FOR the world and not FOR God and still enter heaven.Humph!Actually, this guy thinks he is better than women. That NO WOMAN can speak to him about God or know more than him. He doesn't believe in women speakers. Basically, we are worthless to him. He won’t even come to my Mother's house because he is not the "man" of the house. Ehh...Okay, went a little off topic.I totally believe that you can lose your salvation. Being saved is not really what you say, it's what you feel. If you turn your heart against Christ and do you own thing, you are giving the gift of salvation back to God.Let's say...Jesus holds the present of salvation in his hands. The gift is wrapped in the most beautiful wrapping paper, ribbon, and bows. He stands before you with a smile on his face. His eyes are full of love and mercy. He extends the gift and you accept it with ALL your heart. You unwrap the gift and apply it to your life. But when you choose to turn away from God, it's like taking that gift, approaching Jesus, and giving it back.... wanting nothing to do with it.I believe people believe the "once saved always saved" thing because they want to live their own life and have peace (about where they will go when they die) at the same time. They don't want to face that they both change and give themselves with all their heart to God or face going to hell. Lost people run away from things that make them look bad.I came up with this conclusion from experience. I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me.
I agree with you Godzgirl What God has given us is the promise of Salvation IF and thats the key IF we keep our part if we do not keep our part of the promise staying in his way in his Word its us that has broken the promise not God. What does God say to those who preach a false doctrine ..follow the wrong Christ ... broke our promise to him Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
smile.gif
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.GodzGirl... Here is an old post of mine, and I experience this before... not through me, but through someone else and some other people...(thesuperjag;10034)
Writer the OSAS doctrine is so deceiving and it is made by man. And I don't need a scripture to support this common sense. For ensample, When I accepted Jesus into my heart, I became saved... Now if I turn my back on my Saviour and I became a wiccan (an example) and never want Him again...then I am going to say that I was never truly saved at all...therefore the OSAS doctrine needs to be discarded.
 

RichardBurger

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(tomwebster;67310)
Both of these quotes are from Scripture and they are both true so the question is, who are "My sheep?" I think there are many people that think they are "sheep" that are not. They think they are "saved" but they have not the "truth." They believe in the Christ of crucified and risen but not in Christ as the Word of God (all of it).I have said this before somewhere, and I still believe salvation is more than believing Christ "crucified and risen." I think salvation has more to do with knowing the Word of God.
I am at a loss as to what you mean by "all of it." Do you mean all of your understanding of the Bible? Or perhaps if another has a different opinion as to what the Bible says than you they don't believe "all of it."Give me a break!Richard
 

RichardBurger

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Wow. What a lot to read. lol I actually skipped over a lot. My bad.
biggrin.gif
Forgive me? I just have to say something... (When do I not have something to say? my friends would say "NEVER") hehe.I actually have a Grandmother who feels that once you’re saved, you’re always saved. I have tried to tell her that is not true but she won’t hear it. She used to be Christian but fell away (after my Grandpa's death). Now she is in a relationship with a man who fills her head with similar things.He is worse. The boyfriend. He believes that once you obtain salvation, you can never lose it. You can drink, have sexual relations without marriage, and live FOR the world and not FOR God and still enter heaven.Humph!Actually, this guy thinks he is better than women. That NO WOMAN can speak to him about God or know more than him. He doesn't believe in women speakers. Basically, we are worthless to him. He won’t even come to my Mother's house because he is not the "man" of the house. Ehh...Okay, went a little off topic.I totally believe that you can lose your salvation. Being saved is not really what you say, it's what you feel. If you turn your heart against Christ and do you own thing, you are giving the gift of salvation back to God.Let's say...Jesus holds the present of salvation in his hands. The gift is wrapped in the most beautiful wrapping paper, ribbon, and bows. He stands before you with a smile on his face. His eyes are full of love and mercy. He extends the gift and you accept it with ALL your heart. You unwrap the gift and apply it to your life. But when you choose to turn away from God, it's like taking that gift, approaching Jesus, and giving it back.... wanting nothing to do with it.I believe people believe the "once saved always saved" thing because they want to live their own life and have peace (about where they will go when they die) at the same time. They don't want to face that they both change and give themselves with all their heart to God or face going to hell. Lost people run away from things that make them look bad.I came up with this conclusion from experience. I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me.
If your Grandmother has faith that what Jesus did on the cross has saved her and sealed her with the Holy Spirit, why would you want to make her doubt it? In what do you want her to place her belief, faith, trust, confidence and hope in? Is it in her ability to work for salvation by living a good life and not sin enough to lose her salvation?It is a truth that if you don't believe Jesus' death on the cross saves you and keeps you by paying for all your sins then IMHO you are not saved.Richard
 

RichardBurger

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It is obvious that those that just refuse to believe in OSAS will not accept these scriptures about the power of God to save and to keep those that are saved. But I will post them anyway.Rom 1:16-17 NKJV16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." 1 Cor 1:18-25 NKJV18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.19 For it is written:"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." 20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1 Cor 2:1-5 NKJV1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 1 Peter 1:3-5 NKJV3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.I repeat: "5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."Richard
 

RichardBurger

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I am one of His sheep. I hope you are too. If you are you will know You have eternal life OSAS.John 10:1-101 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them. Jesus the Good Shepherd7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.8 All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. 11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.Jesus was speaking to the Jews, however note His reference to “other sheep.” The other sheep are those that come to Him under the gospel of grace as taught by Paul.16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."NKJVJohn 10:22-30The Shepherd Knows His Sheep22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch.24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.30 I and My Father are one." NKJVPosted for reference by Richard
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
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Doesn't sound like OSAS at all... it just astounds me that people will do whatever they say and do to support this false doctrine.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments....James 2:14 - What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?James 2:17 - Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.James 2:20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?James 2:24 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
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Richard you see what you want your scripture supports no such thing nor does the Bible seems you are always calling the kettel black accusing if we dont agree with you...according to you we are insisting we are right you are doing that exact same thing Everyone can have an opinion but it really doesnt matter only Gods word matters I you want to prove your point address the scriptures we give proving differnt instead of attacking us for having an opinon based on scripture to the contrary ... The fact is you just can not ignore scripture to the contray just because it doesnt fit your opinon..Ours is as based in scripture as yours ... If you can not address all scripture for and against a subject all you have is a personal opinon based on one side of the argument ..and no ones opinion counts if its not Gods complete Word on it.