Once Saved Always Saved ?

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RichardBurger

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Jordan, you said: "That's lame. The problem is not with me. The problem is with you, inability to understand His Words correctly... leaving you vulnerable. I'll follow God."You sure do have an attitude problem. Oh, by the way, I am not vulnerable. That is just your idea. I am kept by the power of God, not my own power. But those that do not believe in OSAS must have faith in themselves to keep themselves saved.You say you are following God and yet you do not have faith in Him to keep you saved. Somehow, you claim to have faith in Him to save you but your faith ends at His being able to keep you. --- amazing!Richard
 
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interesting topic just wanted to understand what you meant by loosing your salvation, is that your eternal salvation or the salvation you should recieve on earth.:cool:
 

Christina

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I have explained what He has commanded of us under the gospel of grace and you have ignored it so obviouly you disagree. We are to place our faith, trust, confidence and hope in what Jesus' (God) did on the cross.Since you can't agree with me then explain what you see as our duty? Don't be vague about it.What commandments are you saying we must keep? Don't be vague about it.Tell me what you see as the commandments we must keep in order to keep ourselves saved? Don't be vague about it.Richard
I dont address it because it goes without saying every new Christian gets that.. whats to address.. I agree I have never said differnt but placing our faith, trust,confidence,and hope in Christ does not = OSAS this is in your head ....Only if you can keep it through our trials and tribulations are we saved ... But many who have made that commitment wont be able to keep it ... therefore they will not be saved.. so OSAS is a false doctrine ...period Its very simple keeping our faith, trust,confidence,and hope in Christ is our part our duty you do not keep it ...you lose ... You are saying if you fall from faith,confidence, trust hope its ok you had it once so you are OSAS ..thats a lie .........If you dont get this you are the one in denial
 

Christina

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interesting topic just wanted to understand what you meant by loosing your salvation, is that your eternal salvation or the salvation you should recieve on earth.:cool:
eternal salvation Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Jordan, you said: "That's lame. The problem is not with me. The problem is with you, inability to understand His Words correctly... leaving you vulnerable. I'll follow God."You sure do have an attitude problem. Oh, by the way, I am not vulnerable. That is just your idea. I am kept by the power of God, not my own power. But those that do not believe in OSAS must have faith in themselves to keep themselves saved.You say you are following God and yet you do not have faith in Him to keep you saved. Somehow, you claim to have faith in Him to save you but your faith ends at His being able to keep you. --- amazing!Richard
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John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world....Matthew 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:Matthew 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Care to deny more of God's Words?(Christina;67475)
(RichardBurger;67463)
I have explained what He has commanded of us under the gospel of grace and you have ignored it so obviouly you disagree. We are to place our faith, trust, confidence and hope in what Jesus' (God) did on the cross.Since you can't agree with me then explain what you see as our duty? Don't be vague about it.What commandments are you saying we must keep? Don't be vague about it.Tell me what you see as the commandments we must keep in order to keep ourselves saved? Don't be vague about it.Richard
I dont address it because it goes without saying every new Christian gets that whats to address.. I agree I have never said differnt but placing our faith, trust,confidence,and hope in Christ does not = OSAS this is in your head ....Only if you can keep it through our trials and tribulations are we saved ... But many who have made that commitment wont be able to keep it ... therefore they will not be saved.. so OSAS is a false doctrine period its very simple keeping our faith, trust,confidence,and hope in Christ is our part our duty you do not keep it ...you lose ... You are saying if you fall from faith,confidence, trust hope its ok you had it once so you are OSAS ..thats a lie .........You are fully 100% correct on that Christina.
 

logabe

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Aug 28, 2008
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As I said in an earlier post...there is a difference betweenan overcomer and a believer. A person doesn't lose hissalvation if he doesn't overcome some sin. He or she willlose their "REWARD". The REWARD is the 1st Resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6). That'swhat a believer that has been justified but has rejected thesantification...they lose their REWARD not their salvation.(1st Cor. 3:13-15).13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and thefire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.Logabe
 

Christina

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We are not just talking believers but those who fall away so what does this have to do with OSAS I realize you dont see the End times the same way I do but follow me for a moment (hard for you I know:) ) Antichrist comes claiming to be christ because few understand this (thinking they are going to raptured away they didnt learn it) They follow antchrist believing he is christ returned... they take the mark of the beast they worship him as christ ... your saying they are still saved
 

RichardBurger

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I dont address it because it goes without saying every new Christian gets that.. whats to address.. I agree I have never said differnt but placing our faith, trust,confidence,and hope in Christ does not = OSAS this is in your head ....Only if you can keep it through our trials and tribulations are we saved ... But many who have made that commitment wont be able to keep it ... therefore they will not be saved.. so OSAS is a false doctrine ...period Its very simple keeping our faith, trust,confidence,and hope in Christ is our part our duty you do not keep it ...you lose ... You are saying if you fall from faith,confidence, trust hope its ok you had it once so you are OSAS ..thats a lie .........If you dont get this you are the one in denial
No! I am saying that a born again child of God that has been made a child of God by God's will (power) is kept a child of God by God's will (power). The children of God will not lose their faith in Jesus' work on the cross. Faith is also a gift from God.Richard
 

knew1

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Does being 'saved' mean being a good Christian? As a Christian.......I must say that we are an arrogant lot. I do not know of any perfect person, yet we all think we are. Oh I know, we all say "I'm not perfect" but when we look at someone else we say "at least I don't cheat on my spouse". No sin is greater than another. It's all sin. The only thing that I can hold onto is the faith in what I believe, and that is plainly: Jesus Christ is my Savior. No matter how far I go off of the path.......I have been redeemed. Will I get to Heaven if I leave the path? If not, then I believe that Heaven will be empty. Who can honestly say that in the course of a day, you have absolutely acted with the same purity and faith that Jesus had? This is why we must be cleansed daily through prayer and meditation. Most of us need it several times daily. In my honest opinion; that is what being saved is all about. Any one can stand kneel before an alter and say " I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior" but if we truly mean it, we may falter, but we'll not fall. So I say......Once saved.....always saved!
 

RichardBurger

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Does being 'saved' mean being a good Christian? As a Christian.......I must say that we are an arrogant lot. I do not know of any perfect person, yet we all think we are. Oh I know, we all say "I'm not perfect" but when we look at someone else we say "at least I don't cheat on my spouse". No sin is greater than another. It's all sin. The only thing that I can hold onto is the faith in what I believe, and that is plainly: Jesus Christ is my Savior. No matter how far I go off of the path.......I have been redeemed. Will I get to Heaven if I leave the path? If not, then I believe that Heaven will be empty. Who can honestly say that in the course of a day, you have absolutely acted with the same purity and faith that Jesus had? This is why we must be cleansed daily through prayer and meditation. Most of us need it several times daily. In my honest opinion; that is what being saved is all about. Any one can stand kneel before an alter and say " I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior" but if we truly mean it, we may falter, but we'll not fall. So I say......Once saved.....always saved!
Boy are you in for it. Ha! Ha!Richard
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Does being 'saved' mean being a good Christian? As a Christian.......I must say that we are an arrogant lot. I do not know of any perfect person, yet we all think we are. Oh I know, we all say "I'm not perfect" but when we look at someone else we say "at least I don't cheat on my spouse". No sin is greater than another. It's all sin. The only thing that I can hold onto is the faith in what I believe, and that is plainly: Jesus Christ is my Savior. No matter how far I go off of the path.......I have been redeemed. Will I get to Heaven if I leave the path? If not, then I believe that Heaven will be empty. Who can honestly say that in the course of a day, you have absolutely acted with the same purity and faith that Jesus had? This is why we must be cleansed daily through prayer and meditation. Most of us need it several times daily. In my honest opinion; that is what being saved is all about. Any one can stand kneel before an alter and say " I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior" but if we truly mean it, we may falter, but we'll not fall. So I say......Once saved.....always saved!
Boy are you in for it. Ha! Ha!RichardYou want to make Christ a liar? If you feel comfortable with that, By all means go feel free to do it.II Thessalonians 2:10 - And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.Still no prove for this cockypot feel good doctrine of men! You lose still.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Does being 'saved' mean being a good Christian? As a Christian.......I must say that we are an arrogant lot. I do not know of any perfect person, yet we all think we are. Oh I know, we all say "I'm not perfect" but when we look at someone else we say "at least I don't cheat on my spouse". No sin is greater than another. It's all sin. The only thing that I can hold onto is the faith in what I believe, and that is plainly: Jesus Christ is my Savior. No matter how far I go off of the path.......I have been redeemed. Will I get to Heaven if I leave the path? If not, then I believe that Heaven will be empty. Who can honestly say that in the course of a day, you have absolutely acted with the same purity and faith that Jesus had? This is why we must be cleansed daily through prayer and meditation. Most of us need it several times daily. In my honest opinion; that is what being saved is all about. Any one can stand kneel before an alter and say " I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior" but if we truly mean it, we may falter, but we'll not fall. So I say......Once saved.....always saved!
You answer your own question .......... If you stay in his word yes you will partake of all the promises God gave you .... but as you say what if you stray ... what if you fall away what if you convert to become Hindu do you think you still saved ????If not than OSAS is a false doctrine ???????? Its in fact no doctrine if we are staying in his Word in faith we know we are saved if we stray do we know this ???????? No .... the responsability falls on us our free will ...if you preach a OSAS doctrine you are telling the person that is now a Hindu he is still saved because he believed once ...false doctrine doesnt exist in Gods Word
 

RichardBurger

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You answer your own question .......... If you stay in his word yes you will partake of all the promises God gave you .... but as you say what if you stray ... what if you fall away what if you convert to become Hindu do you think you still saved ????If not than OSAS is a false doctrine ???????? Its in fact no doctrine if we are staying in his Word in faith we know we are saved if we stray do we know this ???????? No .... the responsability falls on us our free will ...if you preach a OSAS doctrine you are telling the person that is now a Hindu he is still saved because he believed once ...false doctrine doesnt exist in Gods Word
"What if you fall away you say." I see you are still building your strawman. No child of God will turn away from God. HE/she is kept by the power of God.You don't want others to be convinced of God's salvation. You want them to live in fear that if they should fail in any way they will be lost. You do not want others to be totally convinced that God can, not only save, but also keep them. -- The difference between you and I is that I am completey convinced that God is able to keep that which I have entrusted to His care.2 Tim 1:1212 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. In truth you can't save yourself by what you do and you can't keep yourself saved by what you do.Richard
 

Jordan

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You answer your own question .......... If you stay in his word yes you will partake of all the promises God gave you .... but as you say what if you stray ... what if you fall away what if you convert to become Hindu do you think you still saved ????If not than OSAS is a false doctrine ???????? Its in fact no doctrine if we are staying in his Word in faith we know we are saved if we stray do we know this ???????? No .... the responsability falls on us our free will ...if you preach a OSAS doctrine you are telling the person that is now a Hindu he is still saved because he believed once ...false doctrine doesnt exist in Gods Word
"What if you fall away you say." I see you are still building your strawman. No child of God will turn away from God. HE/she is kept by the power of God.You don't want others to be convinced of God's salvation. You want them to live in fear that if they should fail in any way they will be lost. You do not want others to be totally convinced that God can, not only save, but also keep them. -- The difference between you and I is that I am completey convinced that God is able to keep that which I have entrusted to His care.2 Tim 1:1212 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. In truth you can't save yourself by what you do and you can't keep yourself saved by what you do.RichardProverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.I guess Christ lied to us ... huh Richard?
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epistemaniac

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From the book “hard to believe” by John MacArthur.Man-made and demon-designed systems of religion are based on the assumption that we don't really need a Savior, or that we are not fully dependent on Him, because we have the capacity to develop our own righteousness. Just let God give us a little religious environment to aid our natural goodness, dispense a little power to us, or infuse a little strength into us. Give us a few rules, a few religious routines and rituals, and we'll crank up salvation on our own. The lie of human achievement comes under myriad different titles, but it's all the same system, because it's spawned out of the same source: Satan himself. He packages it in different boxes, but it's all the same product. On the other hand, the truth of divine accomplishment is Christianity. And it stands alone.Tragically, most of humanity is religiously speeding down the wide highway of human achievement, convinced it's headed toward some fabulous heavenly destiny because of its own basic goodness, noble works, and religious deeds. By contrast, Jesus said the only true way to heaven is the narrow pathway of trusting Him alone as Lord and Savior.The Jews taught that they could make it on their own. That's why it was so shocking when the apostle Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight" (Rom. 3:20). He also said that the law came in order to stop our mouths from any claim to righteousness and to render the whole world guilty before God. The Law came to show us our sinfulness, but when self-righteous, ego-centered man saw that he was sinful by the Law, he didn't want to face his sinfulness. Fallen people set their sinfulness aside and are constantly inventing new systems that accommodate their shortcomings, then affirming that they are okay before their gods, based on their own personal criteria or religious beliefs and behaviors.Richard
awesome.... thanks for the quote...blessings,ken
 

epistemaniac

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Figured this would happen. Epistemaniac and Logabe, I fear that you are putting yourselves in danger, because I know, you are making God a liar through your interpretations. God does not ever need your interpretions, but rather you need His interpretations. God explains His own word for you, but will you ever listen, or will you go set on your path thinking men's ways are God's ways, by following the traditions and philosophies of the world. That is up to you. You are warned.
Figured this would happen. Jordan, I fear that you are putting yourself in danger, because I know, you are making God a liar through your interpretations. God does not ever need your interpretations, but rather you need His interpretations. God explains His own word for you, but will you ever listen, or will you go set on your path thinking men's ways are God's ways, by following the traditions and philosophies of the world. That is up to you. You are warned.blessings,ken
 

logabe

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QUOTE=Christina;67424]What??? God never says the whole Levite priest hood was going to hell for the sins of two ... Thats dosent bode well for all the false preachers of today ...then does it ... God killed these two .. and whether they are forgiven or not is Gods business not ours ..to turn around and say the Levite priest hood is going to hell is a ridiculous statement ..
The Bible says it was more than two Levites.In Eze. 44:10 and 12 says,10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.Sounds like they caused the Israelites to fall...that'spretty serious. Logabe
we are not judged by what others do ... Secondly you have just defeated your own argument if you believe this ... So according to you all the priests of Levites are going to hell for the sins of two yet many were faithful believers So they shouldn't they be OSAS ?you cant have it both ways.
No Krissie, Tom said, they were going to be restored. You don't have to be restored if you are a good Levite.I'm talking about the ones that have to be restored inEze. 44. Now, you are trying to have it both ways. Justanswer the question...are the Levites that need to berestored going to be saved in the end?Logabe
OSAS is a modern man made doctrine for the weak of faith for those who need a crutch all faithful believers who will be chosen called saints will be sealed they know the promise made to us and trust their father we know we have a duty to stay in faith to him. The very test of faith is in things not seen ...
Krissie, I have a kid and some grand kids. If they make a mistakeI will correct them. Will I throw them away if they disobey me? NoI want and I don't think you would either. Do you know where I gotthat from? I got that from my Heavenly Father.Logabe
.yet you would have a seen OSAS safety net so you can fall away be a sinner and say OSAS.. poppycock a true believer Knows who he is and where his faith lies his foundation is on the rock ... If you need a double insurance policy ... Well just in case God was lying ..lets say OSAS is a doctrine too ....Verse after verse denies this doctrine ....
[/QUOTE]No, I would encourage all immature christians to walkin the Spirit so they wouldn't fulfill lust of the flesh. If they neglect correction, they will suffer loss, but theythemselves shall be saved like as by fire.In other words, they will be corrected (restored) like Tom said, after the Tabernacles Age.John 5:28-29 says,28 Wonder not at this, because there doth come an hour in which all those in the tombs shall hear his voice,29 and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.Logabe
 

GodzGirll

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If your Grandmother has faith that what Jesus did on the cross has saved her and sealed her with the Holy Spirit, why would you want to make her doubt it? In what do you want her to place her belief, faith, trust, confidence and hope in? Is it in her ability to work for salvation by living a good life and not sin enough to lose her salvation?It is a truth that if you don't believe Jesus' death on the cross saves you and keeps you by paying for all your sins then IMHO you are not saved.Richard
I am not placing doubt in her heart. The TRUTH is that God is a loving and FAIR God.John 15:6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.When we turn our back on God, we choose to give up our salvation. God will cut down bad branches from the tree and cast them into the fire (which signifies hell).That is why we need to fear God and submit ourselves to Him. We will make mistakes but that is when we get up, brush ourselves off, ask for forgiveness, and continue forward. We learn from the mistakes and move on.To me, turning your back on God says... that you believe in Him, don't want to listen to him, ignore him, and do your own thing even though God wants you to do something else. Not caring. Throwing back his gift of salvation in his face after attempting to destroy it with your own pride and selfishness.I am not trying to offend anyone. This is what the Bible says and it's the truth and I am not the one to sugar-coat (of course in a loving way). :angel9:FEEL THE LOVE
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Jordan

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The last verses of Romans chapter 8 have a very clear response to this question.
If that's a yes answer to you... Bible says otherwise. (Matthew 7:21-23, John 14:15, Matthew 24:29-30, Mark 13:24-26, John 16:33, Amos 8:11-12)