Calvinism

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CharismaticLady

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@Mjh29 will doubtless come back with some verses of his own, but here's one from me:
1 Timothy 1:15. 'this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am chief.'
Paul uses the Present Tense, eimi, meaning 'I am.' It would have been very simple for him to say 'I was,' but he didn't. In fact, the Present Tense in Greek denotes continuity, so the last part of the verse could be translated, 'of whom I am continually chief.'

Do please read again my post #1883. I'm aware that John Wesley taught, wrongly, that people could reach a state of sinless perfection, but he never claimed to have reached such a state himself.

1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.


Peter said we are partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

John said 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God; and 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Jesus said 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Daniel said of the coming Messiah that He would finish the transgression, make an end of sins, make reconciliation for iniquity, bring in everlasting righteousness,

Paul said we are dead to sin. Romans 6:2 (Is that every Christian, but himself?)
 
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CharismaticLady

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36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with stones; as Jehovah commanded Moses.

What was his crime? Did he break one of the Ten Commandments: the LAW. If he did, that is a willful sin of lawlessness, a sin unto death. Breaking a commandment is rebellion against God, Himself.

Jesus has His own set of commandments that he taught in the Sermon on the Mount for the New Covenant, that would come into affect on the Day of Pentecost (the "reading of the will and testament.". He took one of the old commandments, and went deeper to the heart. Now, just hating someone is a sin unto death. And so on...
 
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CharismaticLady

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@Mjh29 will doubtless come back with some verses of his own, but here's one from me:
1 Timothy 1:15. 'this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am chief.'
Paul uses the Present Tense, eimi, meaning 'I am.' It would have been very simple for him to say 'I was,' but he didn't. In fact, the Present Tense in Greek denotes continuity, so the last part of the verse could be translated, 'of whom I am continually chief.'

Do please read again my post #1883. I'm aware that John Wesley taught, wrongly, that people could reach a state of sinless perfection, but he never claimed to have reached such a state himself.

I understand Wesley's teaching and it is not false or wrong. But to me there is a difference between perfect and sinless.

Sinless is when you are baptized with the Holy Spirit and are born again with the divine nature. As long as you do not quench the Spirit you cannot willfully sin a sin of lawlessness (a sin unto death) against God. So at that point you are sinless.

But life goes on and there is another type of sin that is a sin not unto death. It is against each other. Those are what are trespasses, that even someone in the middle of walking in the Spirit can commit, but they are automatically cleansed if the conditions are faithfully being met. They are unintentional, and the motives could be good. Or they are even unknown that we have committed a trespass. But as long as we forgive others their trespasses against us, the Father forgives these trespasses we have committed against others. We need to try to reconcile to each other in fellowship. 1 John 1:7

For instance, you could be wrong in saying that John Wesley's teaching is false. If you were wrong, then you have committed a trespass against Wesley. But it would have been done out of ignorance because you believe your words are true, and righteously because you want to save people from false doctrines. The same could be said of me trespassing against Luther and Calvin if I am wrong, and I would be ignorant. But my motive would have been just as righteous, because of the consequences I see for you believing more apathetically about sin, than Wesley or I do.

BTW here is the post from a poster trying to correct my beliefs, that is the basis for this whole discussion with Mjh27. I wanted to know if he believed that. Do you? The other Calvinist poster said:

"Our transgressions are forgiven and our sins are covered. God does not input sin. However much sin abounds in us, Grace does much more abound. Romans 4:6

---
Personally, I believe that is a completely false doctrine, and, yes, extremely apathetic toward committing sin.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Kind of hard to deny that Peter didn't also (along with several other apostles) still have a sin problem going on in his life when you read this. (and this was at least 20 years after the cross)
Galatians 2:11-13 The Passion Translation (TPT)
Paul Confronts Peter
11 But when Peter visited Antioch,[1] he began to mislead the believers and caused them to stumble over his behavior, so I had to confront him to his face over what he was doing. 12 He enjoyed being with the non-Jewish believers who didn’t keep the Jewish customs, eating his meals with them—up until the time the Jewish friends of James arrived from Jerusalem. When he saw them, he withdrew from his non-Jewish friends and separated himself from them, acting like an orthodox Jew—fearing how it would look to them if he ate with the non-Jewish believers.[2]

13 And so because of Peter’s hypocrisy,[3] many other Jewish believers followed suit, refusing to eat with non-Jewish believers. Even Barnabas was led astray by their poor example and condoned this legalistic, hypocritical behavior!

Footnotes:
  1. Galatians 2:11 Antioch was a large city in Syria with a significant Jewish population. It was in Antioch that believers were first called Christians and it was the first church to send out missionaries to the nations. See Acts 11:25; 13:1–3.
  2. Galatians 2:12 Or “those who were not of the circumcision.”
  3. Galatians 2:13 The incident of Acts 10–11 happened before this account in Gal. 2. Peter was shown by a heavenly vision that God views the non-Jewish believers as “clean.” This amplifies Peter’s hypocrisy. Even Jesus’ apostles had conflicts that needed to be worked out and healed.

Personally, I find Paul at fault for gossiping about Peter in a letter. Peter only did the same thing that Paul does himself around his kinsmen who are still trapped in Jewish tradition. To Jews, he became a Jew; to Gentiles he became a Gentile. Peter had eaten with the Galatians, but stopped to not offend the Jews who entered.
 

CharismaticLady

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I think you owe @Preacher4Truth a bit of an apology. He was trying to help you. It is good to ask God to help you to work out those parts of His word that you may find difficult.

First of all, Paul is telling the Philippians that their motivation must not last only as long as Paul's presence among them. Having trusted in Christ, they must not sit back and think "Let go and let God." If God is your Shepherd, He will lead you in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake; but the evidence of His leading will be your following. God's sheep are a special breed; they are distinguished by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice and the follow Him (John 10:27).

Paul teaches that the Christian is a new creature in Christ Jesus, but he also teaches that there is a relic of our old sinful nature that resides, not in us, but in our flesh or 'members.' 'For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these things are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish' (Galatians 5:17). 'For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man, but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is [not in my heart but] in my members. O wretched man that I am!' (Romans 7:22-24).

So what our we to do about this? 'Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness.......etc. Because of this the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience' (Colossians 3:5-6; Romans 6:12). We are to battle, struggle, fight against indwelling sin, showing even our more darling sins no mercy, but hacking them down before the Lord like so many Agags (1 Samuel 15:33). I once read a splendid article that likened our indwelling sin to the Amalekites. They attack us when we are at our weakest (Deuteronomy 25:17-19) and, like God, we are to declare constant war against them and destroy them wherever and whenever they rise against us (Exodus 17:16). But alas! In this life we shall never be able to defeat them utterly (1 Samuel 30:17). However, we have this promise from God: 'sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace' (Romans 6:14).

So to work out your salvation in fear and trembling is to battle against sin, for if sin does have dominion over you, that is an indication that you are not under grace. But if you are under grace and battling against indwelling sin to destroy it, then you will succeed progressively because, 'It is God who works in you to will and to do of His good pleasure.'

As you saw, I quoted the scripture that he only referred to. I agree with it. What's the problem? It's what I've been saying all along. The problem is with the difference in interpretation, not the Word of God. It is his interpretation that causes the difference in beliefs. But he refused to tell me. Just told me to pray. That is preaching to the choir on prayer, but his last post to be was outrageous. And Mjh27 like it. They better start working out their own salvation and stop with the attitude.

As I already showed you the original Calvinist's post that pretty much claimed he could sin all he wanted to because sin was not imputed to him. That was that man's interpretation. As far as praying over scripture, I've done that for years and is the reason why I have a totally different interpretation than those who just believe Calvin.
 
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CharismaticLady

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As you probably know John mentions the sin unto death in his first epistle. Paul also mentions it (but not by name). But CL does not really know what is means, since she could not apply it Ananias and Sapphira (saints who sinned unto death -- premature physical death -- not eternal damnation).

I sure hope you are not banking on going to the same place A and S will wind up. They lied to the Holy Spirit. That may even be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which is not forgiveable.
 

CharismaticLady

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I read this about 7 times, and still cannot make heads or tails of it. I was trying to find a place of agreement or argument, but I really don't understand what you are talking about.

Here is what I know:

~ Jacob tricked his brother and lied to get his birthright
~ Moses disobeyed God directly on at least 1 occasion, and Aaron the high priest literally built a golden idol for God's people to worship
~ David committed adultery and then had Bathsheba's husband killed
~ Solomon had multiple wives, which is against the Law of God
~ Peter denied Christ not once but 3 times, as well as sinned blatantly, which Paul calls him out on.

THESE are the men of God; and to be honest I do not find any of them fitting this description of a Christian that you are giving. It is a good thing to dig deep into the Scriptures; I have no problem with that. But when we try to dig to the depth of the Word to contradict is plain, surface-reading teachings, it's about time we stepped back and asked ourselves if WE are the ones twisting Scripture [intentionally or not]


It is mostly scripture, so I don't understand what you didn't understand. What exactly do you not understand. One at a time if there is more than one.
 

Waiting on him

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What was his crime? Did he break one of the Ten Commandments: the LAW. If he did, that is a willful sin of lawlessness, a sin unto death. Breaking a commandment is rebellion against God, Himself.

Jesus has His own set of commandments that he taught in the Sermon on the Mount for the New Covenant, that would come into affect on the Day of Pentecost (the "reading of the will and testament.". He took one of the old commandments, and went deeper to the heart. Now, just hating someone is a sin unto death. And so on...
He was gathering sticks, possibly to kindle a fire.
 
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Mjh29

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What scripture are you specifically referring to when you say "plain, surface-reading teachings"?

~ Mark 10:18
~ Ecclesiastes 7:20
~ 1 John 2:1
~ 1 John 1:9
~ 1 John 1:8-10


The Scriptures many, many times claim that no one is without sin; it makes no distinction between what kinds. When we try to dig deep into the Word, it is a wonderful and often beneficial thing; but when we dig into the Word to try and disprove or alter the meanings of plain, surface level teachings, this is a dangerous thing to do.
 

CharismaticLady

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17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

20 And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”

Even though Jesus was God, He had emptied Himself of His glory. In other words, He was no longer omniscient, (He only did what He saw the Father doing in heaven), omnipresent (He couldn't be everywhere at once), nor omnipotent (He didn't do any miracles until after being filled with the Spirit, and even then only what He saw the Father doing in heaven.)

John 17:
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.


20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Since Adam sinned we inherited the sin nature from him. Everyone is born with that sin nature. If you say otherwise, you are a liar. Jesus was manifest to take away that sin nature and renew our nature with the divine nature. Unfortunately, you do not know what the new birth contains, and do not recognize that Jesus corrected Adam's curse on us.

1 John 2:1
1 John 1:9

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Notice for our sins to be forgiven they need to be confessed. Repentance must take place. However, in 1 John 2:1 there is no confession mentioned. So what sins then is Jesus our Advocate? Not sins of lawlessness against God, sins unto death. But the trespasses we commit against each other, sins not unto death. Even someone walking in the power of the Spirit is still capable of this type of sin (but you won't accept there is a difference.)

1 John 1:8-10

In context: 1 John 1:5-10

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

As in Ecclesiastes 7:20 since Adam's sin, no one is born sinless; we all are born with the sin nature. If you say otherwise about yourself, you are a liar. Only Jesus can take away our sin nature and make us born again of the divine nature. In the verses above John is contrasting the light and truth vs. darkness and no truth/lies. Note the highlighted contrast.

John again writes in contrast in chapter 3. Note the highlighted contrast.

1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?


18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
 
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Mjh29

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17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

20 And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”

Even though Jesus was God, He had emptied Himself of His glory. In other words, He was no longer omniscient, (He only did what He saw the Father doing in heaven), omnipresent (He couldn't be everywhere at once), nor omnipotent (He didn't do any miracles until after being filled with the Spirit, and even then only what He saw the Father doing in heaven.)

John 17:
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.



20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Since Adam sinned we inherited the sin nature from him. Jesus was manifest to take away that sin nature and renew our nature with the divine nature.




1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Notice for our sins to be forgiven they need to be confessed. Repentance must take place. However, in 1 John 2:1 there is no confession mentioned. So what sins then is Jesus our Advocate? Not sins of lawlessness against God, sins unto death. But the trespasses we commit against each other, sins not unto death. Even someone walking in the power of the Spirit is still capable of this type of sin (but you won't accept there is a difference.)



In context: 1 John 1:5-10

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

As in Ecclesiastes 7:20 since Adam's sin, no one is born sinless; we all are born with the sin nature. If you say otherwise about yourself, you are a liar. Only Jesus can take away our sin nature and make us born again of the divine nature. In the verses above John is contrasting the light and truth vs. darkness and no truth/lies. Note the highlighted contrast.

John again writes in contrast in chapter 3. Note the highlighted contrast.

1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?


18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Again, this is the point I'm making; none of these verses says that we can be perfect; it has to be READ into an ASSUMED. You are starting from the presupposition that after you become a Christian you don't sin, and this is tainting your view of ever verse

John 17:
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Trying to pit Scripture against Scripture; you'd rather bend the Word than bend your theology. This is very dangerous. The Scriptures don't contradict one another. Again, taking a surface-level teaching, and trying to dig deeper to try and contradict what the Word is saying. This time, it was by trying to pit the Word against itself

Since Adam sinned we inherited the sin nature from him.

Yes, our natures were tainted.

Jesus was manifest to take away that sin nature and renew our nature with the divine nature.

So, a question, Is our divine nature the same as God's divine nature?

Notice for our sins to be forgiven they need to be confessed. Repentance must take place. However, in 1 John 2:1 there is no confession mentioned.

Because he just got done telling them they need to confess in 1:8-10!!! Again, warping Scriptures by taking surface-level teachings, and pitting them against other Scriptures.

Before I continue, I would like to know: Is our divine nature the same as God's divine nature?
 

CharismaticLady

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Again, this is the point I'm making; none of these verses says that we can be perfect; it has to be READ into an ASSUMED. You are starting from the presupposition that after you become a Christian you don't sin, and this is tainting your view of ever verse

That was still in the Old Covenant of Law you realize? Not the powerful law of the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant.

I'm taking a break, I will read the rest of your post later. Looking forward to it. :)
 

John Caldwell

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What I notice is that you keep accusing me of pre-suppositions, but you never actually get to grips with what I write and show me where the passages I quote do not support me.

You would rather change the subject and talk about hell. :rolleyes:
I have done this Steve. I do not believe you are able to tell the difference between Scripture and your theology, philosophies, and theories.

None of the passages you have offered support the idea that God punished Christ instead of punishing us. I have told you this, you kerp offerong the same passages we all agree on, and then repeat the claim no one has pointed out your presuppositions.

People have pointed them out. You just do not seem to be able to see them (to separate Steve Owen's ideas from God's words).

There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is, seeing something that isn't there. Thomas Hardy
 

CharismaticLady

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Trying to pit Scripture against Scripture; you'd rather bend the Word than bend your theology. This is very dangerous. The Scriptures don't contradict one another. Again, taking a surface-level teaching, and trying to dig deeper to try and contradict what the Word is saying. This time, it was by trying to pit the Word against itself

Seeing as there is no scripture involved in that I'll include your next.

Because he just got done telling them they need to confess in 1:8-10!!! Again, warping Scriptures by taking surface-level teachings, and pitting them against other Scriptures.

Before I continue, I would like to know: Is our divine nature the same as God's divine nature?

1 John 1:9 is how to come into the light. In other words, how to become a Christian. Jesus takes away all our sin, and in His there is no sin. What does that mean to you? It is the same as 1 John 3:5.

You asked, Is our divine nature the same as God's divine nature? 1 John 3:1 and 1 John 3:9 tells us that His indwelling Spirit makes us "children of God" no longer sinners. John 8:34-36

1 John 3:9 the divine nature: 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So tell me how you reconcile your belief that 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:9 are both Christians. It is actually the before and after receiving the indwelling Christ.
 

Mjh29

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Seeing as there is no scripture involved in that I'll include your next.



1 John 1:9 is how to come into the light. In other words, how to become a Christian. Jesus takes away all our sin, and in His there is no sin. What does that mean to you? It is the same as 1 John 3:5.

You asked, Is our divine nature the same as God's divine nature? 1 John 3:1 and 1 John 3:9 tells us that His indwelling Spirit makes us "children of God" no longer sinners. John 8:34-36

1 John 3:9 the divine nature: 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So tell me how you reconcile your belief that 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:9 are both Christians. It is actually the before and after receiving the indwelling Christ.

I will get to this post later. What I am asking is if our divine nature is the same as Gods? In your opinion? Yes or no will suffice.
 

CharismaticLady

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I will get to this post later. What I am asking is if our divine nature is the same as Gods? In your opinion? Yes or no will suffice.

Yes, or no will not suffice. So, not quite. Neither of us will commit wicked sins of lawlessness, and though God can't commit sins not unto death either such as trespasses, we still do, but can grow out of them with the maturity of love. Fruit grows. And Jesus prunes them to bear more fruit. My nature changed immediately and a sin unto death I couldn't free myself from, God freed my desires to His when He baptized me with the Holy Spirit. If you are interested, I'll send you my testimony. But only if you truly are interested and will not cast stones.
 
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Steve Owen

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I have done this Steve. I do not believe you are able to tell the difference between Scripture and your theology, philosophies, and theories.

None of the passages you have offered support the idea that God punished Christ instead of punishing us. I have told you this, you kerp [sic]offerong [sic] the same passages we all agree on, and then repeat the claim no one has pointed out your presuppositions.

People have pointed them out. You just do not seem to be able to see them (to separate Steve Owen's ideas from God's words).
By 'people,' you mean yourself, I assume. In your utter determination not to see what is so blatantly there you have decided not to interact with the chain of texts that I've offered which decisively prove the Doctrine of Penal Substitution. There is no more I can do to help you.
There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is, seeing something that isn't there. Thomas Hardy
Good to see you quoting well-known Biblical scholars. :rolleyes: Why don't you try Bertrand Russell next, or Mahatma Gandhi?