ROMANS 4:6 IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS

FHII said:

No he wasn't.... 1 Corinthians 9:22 doesn't have a darned thing to do with Romans 7. I am one to believe Paul when he says something; not try to explain why he didn't mean what he said.



Yes, there are a bunch of them in my Church. THey are doing great, but they still don't put themselves in certain circumstances or hang around with certain people because the desire can be invited back. Also, they are still sinners, so no... The Holy Spirit isn't given to take away sin. Jesus did that once!




Then feel free to join her on her soap box. I am not going to spend time arguing with people who think they don't sin and don't even have the desire to sin. It's a waste of my time to do so.

I'll be sure to put your name on that list too.

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Romans 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Wow, Paul is claiming to be over 1300 years old!!!!

Another victim of fables.

2 Timothy 4:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

FHII said:

The Holy Spirit isn't given to take away sin. Jesus did that once!

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Have you not heard that the Trinity is One? Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

FHII said:

He didn't do it for Paul. He didn't do it for me either, but I am not pointing to myself... Paul wasn't Jesus but he was his ambassador.

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Oh who shall free me from the body of this death? I thank God, through Jesus Christ my Lord!

That's Who!

I think that God intends for us to live without the consciousness of sin. I question whether we always are aware of the sins we commit.

So even if we think we live without sin, I'm not so sure. But we can live without the sins we know about, and trust in God to get us through the ones we don't know about . . . yet.

I think that we all get there in our own time, some maybe not in this life.

I think that the corruption of the flesh is a literal physical thing, and that for some, it's worse than others, making it harder to deal with for some.

I think that no matter how corrupt the flesh, it is completely overwhelmed in God's power, the grace @CharismaticLady is speaking of. That grace is sufficient for every need. To not sin, for one. To remain in trust.

There is no need to believe that we must sin in this life. We know there is a conflict between the spirit and the flesh. But why not believe that God can keep you from sin? Isn't that true? Can't He? Is there a single sin you cannot refuse to commit? That God cannot empower you to deny? All testings and temptations have an outcome that's desired by God, and that being not that you sin, but that you do righteousness.

And then if you do sin, look to your Advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous. And then, look for Him to sanctify you wholly.

I think we who are alive in Christ are upheld by His all-powerful Spirit, Who will supply His life to us forever, completely independant of our behavior, but solely by our faith in Jesus.

The abundance of that life in this world is to live it according to the world to come. We've been created in righteousness and true holiness, can we not live righteous, and truly holy?

Much love!

marks said:

So even if we think we live without sin, I'm not so sure. But we can live without the sins we know about, and trust in God to get us through the ones we don't know about . . . yet.

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I think we've discussed this, but maybe not. There are two types of sin.

1. Willful sins of lawlessness (against God's written laws), and they are sins unto death (repentance is required if God allows it after sanctification). Hebrews 10:26-31 These are the type of sin specified in 1 John 3:4 and the rest of the chapter. 1 John 5:16-17

2. Unintentional sins that are not known consciously, and are called trespasses (Leviticus 5:15, and Read Numbers 15:22-36 that shows the sacrifice available to unintentional sins vs. the stoning of the person who committed a willful presumptuous sin against one of the Ten Commandments, so it was lawlessness.) When you walk in the Spirit and are in good fellowship with each other, forgiving each other the trespasses we have committed, then trespasses are automatically cleansed and Jesus is our Advocate for these "sins" not unto death. 1 John 1:7; 1 John 2:1; Matthew 6:14-15; 1 John 5:16-17.

CharismaticLady said:

I think we've discussed this, but maybe not. There are two types of sin.

1. Willful sins of lawlessness (against God's written laws), and they are sins unto death (repentance is required if God allows it after sanctification). Hebrews 10:26-31 These are the type of sin specified in 1 John 3:4 and the rest of the chapter. 1 John 5:16-17

2. Unintentional sins that are not known consciously, and are called trespasses (Leviticus 5:15, and Read Numbers 15:22-36 that shows the sacrifice available to unintentional sins vs. the stoning of the person who committed a willful presumptuous sin against one of the Ten Commandments, so it was lawlessness.) When you walk in the Spirit and are in good fellowship with each other, forgiving each other the trespasses we have committed, then trespasses are automatically cleansed and Jesus is our Advocate for these "sins" not unto death. 1 John 1:7; 1 John 2:1; Matthew 6:14-15; 1 John 5:16-17.

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So let me ask you a question.

Why do you suppose that it is that we still transgress?

FHII said:

No he wasn't.... 1 Corinthians 9:22 doesn't have a darned thing to do with Romans 7.

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Reject the truth if you so desire...just know that there is a judgment.

FHII said:

I'll be sure to put your name on that list too.

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I will say that you are taking an awful chance on the concept that you are right and we are wrong...if you happen to be wrong then your eternal destiny may indeed be at stake if you choose not to listen to or heed the voices of those who would preach to you the truth of these matters.

Gamble on eternity if you want...it's no skin off my back.

Don't get me wrong...I care about what decision you will make. If you go to hell that is one less face that I will see in heaven and one soul that will be in eternal torments...and I certainly don't want that for you.

So it is skin off my back...however my eternal destiny is not dependent on your coming to the knowledge of the truth and believing it unto real salvation.

marks said:

So let me ask you a question.

Why do you suppose that it is that we still transgress?

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Free will to go against our new nature and grieve or quench the Spirit. Peer pressure. Don't be unequally yoked with the friends you pick too.

CharismaticLady said:

Free will to go against our new nature and grieve or quench the Spirit. Peer pressure. Don't be unequally yoked with the friends you pick too.

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Good answers!

I'd add to that forgetting what God has done for us.

In choosing to go against the new nature, where would that choice originate? Do you understand what I'm asking?

Much love!

marks said:

Good answers!

I'd add to that forgetting what God has done for us.

In choosing to go against the new nature, where would that choice originate? Do you understand what I'm asking?

Much love!

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We are given power to resist the devil, so if we come across a temptation, it is the dwelling on it that leads to sin when you act on it.

I was in an abusive marriage and wasn't loved for most of it. But if I came across a good looking man that was kind, I shook my head fiercely back and forth, like rattling my brains, to get the image out of my head. It worked for me. I would rather look silly than sin.

CharismaticLady said:

I would rather look silly than sin.

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and that is very good thing to be

We are given power to resist the devil, so if we come across a temptation, it is the dwelling on it that leads to sin when you act on it.

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you are correct

Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, ----yes he is.. but there is free will if abused gets us in trouble

CharismaticLady said:

Have you not heard that the Trinity is One? Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

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one but 3 separate but not 3 Gods each have a seperate office .but work together

CharismaticLady said:

We are given power to resist the devil, so if we come across a temptation, it is the dwelling on it that leads to sin when you act on it.

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Yes, I think so!

I've been known to speak out, very forcefully, Shut Up! to that flesh mind.

Best remedy against sin in my opinion is to keep one's thoughts fixed on God. All things godly. Then we don't dwell. We look to God. And as long as we do we walk in victory.

Much love!

More on that dwelling . . .

Dwelling on temptation Must be from the mind of the flesh, since the mind of Christ does not dwell on sin.

So to find oneself dwelling on the possibility of sinning, that cannot be the new creation, can it? I'd say of course not.

Therefore, dwelling on the temptation to sin, the appeal is already being made to the flesh, and already being entertained in the mind.

The desires of the flesh, and of the mind . . . as in Ephesians 2.

So to see sin being entertained in the mind, this means our next thought is to be about Jesus, looking for His grace to shut down that line of thought. Trusting Him to do this puts us immediated to Him doing just that for us, since that's what Jesus always wants to do for us, and all we need do is believe.

Much love!

marks said:

More on that dwelling . . .

Dwelling on temptation Must be from the mind of the flesh, since the mind of Christ does not dwell on sin.

So to find oneself dwelling on the possibility of sinning, that cannot be the new creation, can it? I'd say of course not.

Therefore, dwelling on the temptation to sin, the appeal is already being made to the flesh, and already being entertained in the mind.

The desires of the flesh, and of the mind . . . as in Ephesians 2.

So to see sin being entertained in the mind, this means our next thought is to be about Jesus, looking for His grace to shut down that line of thought. Trusting Him to do this puts us immediated to Him doing just that for us, since that's what Jesus always wants to do for us, and all we need do is believe.

Much love!

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It is easy for me because I don't just write on two forum sites, but I write books too, and God is always giving me fresh insight to things, so, yeah, that's where my mind is too.

marks said:

Oh who shall free me from the body of this death? I thank God, through Jesus Christ my Lord!

That's Who!

I think that God intends for us to live without the consciousness of sin. I question whether we always are aware of the sins we commit.

So even if we think we live without sin, I'm not so sure. But we can live without the sins we know about, and trust in God to get us through the ones we don't know about . . . yet.

I think that we all get there in our own time, some maybe not in this life.

I think that the corruption of the flesh is a literal physical thing, and that for some, it's worse than others, making it harder to deal with for some.

I think that no matter how corrupt the flesh, it is completely overwhelmed in God's power, the grace @CharismaticLady is speaking of. That grace is sufficient for every need. To not sin, for one. To remain in trust.

There is no need to believe that we must sin in this life. We know there is a conflict between the spirit and the flesh. But why not believe that God can keep you from sin? Isn't that true? Can't He? Is there a single sin you cannot refuse to commit? That God cannot empower you to deny? All testings and temptations have an outcome that's desired by God, and that being not that you sin, but that you do righteousness.

And then if you do sin, look to your Advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous. And then, look for Him to sanctify you wholly.

I think we who are alive in Christ are upheld by His all-powerful Spirit, Who will supply His life to us forever, completely independant of our behavior, but solely by our faith in Jesus.

The abundance of that life in this world is to live it according to the world to come. We've been created in righteousness and true holiness, can we not live righteous, and truly holy?

Much love!

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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

If your point is that he can cause us to stop sinning, I simply disagree. Some folks point to drug addicts or alcoholics who have stopped an "have no desire" to abuse substances again. I say praise God and he does do that. Though I am not so sure they never have the desire afterward

HOWEVER, the spirit does not keep the flesh from sinning altogether and he doesn't keep people from being sinners while in the flesh.

FHII said:

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

If your point is that he can cause us to stop sinning, I simply disagree. Some folks point to drug addicts or alcoholics who have stopped an "have no desire" to abuse substances again. I say praise God and he does do that. Though I am not so sure they never have the desire afterward

HOWEVER, the spirit does not keep the flesh from sinning altogether and he doesn't keep people from being sinners while in the flesh.

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Only sins not unto death, called trespasses. These we commit against each other, and we must be diligent to keep forgiveness open, so we may be constantly forgiven of these unknown sins.

@marks he has me on ignore. If you agree, copy and paste to him.

FHII said:

HOWEVER, the spirit does not keep the flesh from sinning altogether and he doesn't keep people from being sinners while in the flesh.

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I would point out only two verses (and there are many more):

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

FHII said:

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

If your point is that he can cause us to stop sinning, I simply disagree. Some folks point to drug addicts or alcoholics who have stopped an "have no desire" to abuse substances again. I say praise God and he does do that. Though I am not so sure they never have the desire afterward

HOWEVER, the spirit does not keep the flesh from sinning altogether and he doesn't keep people from being sinners while in the flesh.

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I don't believe the flesh is reformed this side of our resurrection. I believe the corruption of the flesh remains in our bodies for the remainder of our lives. This being the case, there is always the possibility of sins of all descriptions.

In myself, I've experienced the Holy Spirit stop me from continuing in courses He did not want me to continue in by what I've come to call Prohibition. It's as if a word is spoken into my mind, and that option, maybe even seeming innocuous, or maybe not, is off the table. There's just no further consideration, it's not happening. I love His prohibitions, they are further evidence of His love for me. He can stop me in my tracks. I know He leads me.

There was a day when I was reading a Psalm, that God freed me completely from the corruption that is in my flesh, in all thought and behavior, for sufficiently long enough that I know it is real. And I don't say that I didn't commit sins in those days, but if I did, I don't know what they were. It really was a miraculous time, because my flesh's corruption includes some medical issues that are quite notable. But I was free indeed.

God did that for me, I believe, to show me it was real. So that I'd have that to hold on to as He took me on an amazing and difficult journey into healing.

But what He did in those days all at once, He now trains me to do by mental discipline, as I trust Him for each moment that comes, and in every moment that I trust Him, I live in that abundant Spirit life.

He always stands ready to share intimacy with us as long as we recognize the truth that this is His desire, and that He has made the way for us.

He Can cause us to stop sinning.

And the reality is, we are freed from sin. This is a thought to meditate on until you believe it. We have been crucified with Christ, and are dead to sin. We are free from sin. The body of sin has been made powerless.

All that corruption that is in my flesh, frothing forth with avarice and greed, envy, lust, pride, thievings and lying and hatred and fear and hopelessness and on and on, all that corruption, is transcended by faith in Jesus to cause me to stand in His grace. The old man is put off, the new man put on, and I walk in the works He ordained.

And at what moment during life is that not true? But I think many have been poorly trained, and taught to believe that sin is inevitable, probably all the time, but I say take up His power and live.

Much love!

A few more verses:

Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

Furthermore:

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.