Calvinism
- Thread starter John Caldwell
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 9:27 KJVI do love me a good buffet.
[27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Tecarta Bible
Not a punishment.
Penal Substitution Theory views God as pouring His wrath on Christ.
Scripture presents God as chastening (disciplining) His children who are never objects of wrath.
There is absolutely nothing biblical about Penal Substitution Theory.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Was God chastening Christ in my place, this can’t be the case because He chastens me currently.
God was reconciling the world to Himself, no longer counting man's sins against them.
You have to keep in mind that we - not our sins - were purchased with the precious blood of Christ.
No. Not "instead" of us but "for" us. Penal Substitution Theory substitutes "instead" for the word "for".
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Ok, I understand, the thing is I believe there is nothing done outside of His control.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Just one last question John, and I appreciate you tolerating me.
If His chastising is for correction in sons, what was He correcting in Christ being He was pleased with Him?
If His chastising is for correction in sons, what was He correcting in Christ being He was pleased with Him?
I've enjoyed our dialogue.
Hebrews 5:8-10
Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Very interesting, believe it or not I’ve been meditating on that very scripture before I asked the last question. He asks the question how much longer must I suffer you people.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I would conclude we also learn obedience through sufferings, and perfection is on the horizon.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Colossians 1:24 KJV
[24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Tecarta Bible
[24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Tecarta Bible
Why shouldn't those verse be allowed to say what they mean and mean what they say?
It is you who would seek to give them a different spin. But if those are not enough, then meditate on this passage, and digest it without putting another spin on it:
1 CORINTHIANS 11
THE LORD'S SUPPER IS A SOLEMN FEAST
26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
CHRISTIANS MAY NOT PARTAKE OF IT UNWORTHILY ["Unworthily" means not having examined themselves for sins and dealt with them]
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
CHRISTIANS ARE TO CONSTANTLY EXAMINE THEMSELVES [because there are no sinlessly perfect saints]
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
"DAMNATION" IS INCORRECT -- THAT IS CONDEMNATION OR JUDGMENT (krima)
29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
CONSEQUENCES OF FAILURE TO EXAMINE THEMSELVES
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. [Note: "sleep" is a metaphor for premature physical death, the sin unto death]
UNCONFESSED AND UNREPENTED SIN BRINGS DIVINE JUDGMENT
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
THE SIN UNTO DEATH IS THE ULTIMATE CHASTENING OF GOD
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. [Note: "that we should not be condemned with the world" makes it crystal clear that sinning believers are not subject to damnation, but premature death]
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I believe you must look at the context, and in the case of 1 Corinthians 3 passage, that has to do with teachings and doctrines, such as of Peter, Apollos and Paul, and whoever else was teaching in the Church. Some doctrines will be burned up and not last, but the teacher will be saved. Paul's lasted, and so did Peter's. I don't know about Apollos, or Barnabas's, but one of them may have written Hebrews. Paul encountered someone who said the resurrection had already happened, and caused great panic in the church. That teaching was burned. So it is not the person being burned, but their false teaching. And as teachers, we will have a stricter judgment. But God forbid someone's teaching causes someone to go to hell! (That is why I will never teach that we will always sin, and the blood of Jesus will cleanse our past, present and future sins. You will NEVER hear me say that! Matthew 18:6 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. )
In the case of 1 Corinthians 5 about turning one over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, "flesh" does not mean his body, but his carnal nature because he is not saved because he still has lust. He's not born again of the Spirit. And we see in the next book that their repentance lead to their salvation. The church at Corinth was told to bring him back into the fold. They couldn't do that if he was dead. The carnal nature has to die and be born again.
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
We don't agree on everything, but I'm not "spinning" and I believe you are also sincere. Yours is based on justifying OSAS, which is a form of "spinning." So judge not! I just go with context. This is a case of one of us is right and one of us is wrong. Thus: "15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." We will let the Lord be our judge, but I'll see you in heaven
I agree.
I agree.
Jesus takes away our sins of lawlessness. The divine nature would not desire to commit a sin of lawlessness. 1 John 3:4; 2 Peter 1
But that doesn't make us perfect. 1 John 1:7 shows someone walking in the Spirit and there is no one in his life that he has not forgiven their trespasses against him, so he has fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus continually cleanses him of any trespasses he has committed that he doesn't even know about.
If a person commits an unrepented willful sin of lawlessness, and partakes of the Lord's Supper, they may get sick or even die, and be damned. They are not saved. Vengeance is Mine Sayeth the Lord. That is not mere chastisement. The Lord's Supper is only for the born again Christian who comes before the Lord with a clear conscience.
Same as above.
Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
The sin unto death is not chastening, but damnation. It is a willful sin of rebellion against God's written laws. See Numbers 15:36 James 2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. (The law of liberty is the New Covenant.)
I agree.
I agree.
Jesus takes away our sins of lawlessness. The divine nature would not desire to commit a sin of lawlessness. 1 John 3:4; 2 Peter 1
But that doesn't make us perfect. 1 John 1:7 shows someone walking in the Spirit and there is no one in his life that he has not forgiven their trespasses against him, so he has fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus continually cleanses him of any trespasses he has committed that he doesn't even know about.
If a person commits an unrepented willful sin of lawlessness, and partakes of the Lord's Supper, they may get sick or even die, and be damned. They are not saved. Vengeance is Mine Sayeth the Lord. That is not mere chastisement. The Lord's Supper is only for the born again Christian who comes before the Lord with a clear conscience.
Same as above.
Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
The sin unto death is not chastening, but damnation. It is a willful sin of rebellion against God's written laws. See Numbers 15:36 James 2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. (The law of liberty is the New Covenant.)
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Now you have truly shown that you simply (a) do not believe God, (b) do not believe Scripture and (c) do not believe a proper exposition of the truth by anyone. In other words you are willing to make up your own doctrine, and resist the truth.
When you resist the truth, you resist the Holy Spirit, and that is automatically a SIN.
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