Was Noah “saved by grace through faith”?

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Giuliano

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I see that you mean to silence me, lol!
If the shoe fits, wear it.
In this passage, Paul is not saying that sin entered the world through Eve.
Transgress means sin.
Otherwise, Paul would be contradicting himself when he said, Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned… (Romans 5:12 ).

Read the Genesis account of the Fall. God assigns blame to the serpent (i.e. the devil) and to Adam. He doesn’t assign blame to Eve. He only pronounces the curse on her.

Genesis 3:11-19—
Then He asked, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
Then the man replied, “The woman You gave to be with me — she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate.”
So the Lord God asked the woman, “What is this you have done?”
And the woman said, “It was the serpent. He deceived me, and I ate.”

Then the Lord God said to the serpent: Because you have done this,
you are cursed more than any livestock
and more than any wild animal.
You will move on your belly
and eat dust all the days of your life.
I will put hostility between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed.
He will strike your head,
and you will strike his heel.

He said to the woman:
I will intensify your labor pains;
you will bear children in anguish.
Your desire will be for your husband,
yet he will rule over you.

And He said to Adam, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘Do not eat from it’:
The ground is cursed because of you.
You will eat from it by means of painful labor
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
You will eat bread by the sweat of your brow
until you return to the ground,
since you were taken from it.
For you are dust,
and you will return to dust.”
So many words, but still no clear answer. Who sinned first? Adam or Eve? Genesis doesn't use the word "sin" about Adam or Eve.
Foreknowledge (i.e. knowing what will happen in the future) does NOT determine what will happen in the future. IOW, just because God KNEW that Adam would disobey His command, God did not predestine Adam to disobey. Your fallacious logic about this is based on human reasoning, not on the truth.
What you did fail to answer was how God can forget sins when people repent. Or do you fantasize about being in Heaven with God Who remembers eternally every sin you ever committed?

I’m glad that you were open about your involvement in the occult. I have prayed for you about this and, hopefully, others have as well, that you will be delivered from demonic influence, to which you have opened a door! We are to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we may be healed! I consider any involvement in the occult to be a sin.

James 5:16—Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The urgent request of a righteous person is very powerful in its effect.

Please consider that Jesus healed and delivered all who came to Him.
You are not my judge, you do not know me, you make wild assumptions about me. You remind of the self-righteous Pharisees. Your imagination is vile to me, just as Michal's was. Tread cautiously then since her imagination and accusation brought down a curse on her. It did not harm David.
Acts 10:37-38— You know the events that took place throughout Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were under the tyranny of the Devil, because God was with Him.
You now compare yourself to Jesus?

You say that I hinted that you “have a demon.” I did not even imply this. You have twisted my words. Saying or implying that someone has a demon implies that the person is possessed of the devil, which means that the devil owns the person, IMO. I would NOT say this about a fellow Christian. You need to retract your false accusation.
Oh, you don't think I have a demon, but you do think I'm under demonic influence? Are you for real?

I told you before I was aware I was speaking to an elemental spirit who was getting information for me. I was aware of the interaction. Now you seem to think I'm still interacting with a "demon" without knowing it?
God’s omniscience is a biblical truth.

1 John 3:19-20— This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence, even if our conscience condemns us, that God is greater than our conscience, and He knows all things.
All things that are real, yes. Past sins that are repented of are not real anymore since they cease to exist. Surely you know the Bible says God doesn't remember sins when people repent?

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

So much for how foolish men imagine the omniscience of God. You may find the following hard to believe; but there are some sins others have committed against me, but I can't remember what they were. I haven't wiped them completely out of my mind since I vaguely recall they did something, but I couldn't tell you what they did. It doesn't matter to me, either. Maybe in a few years, I'll forget them completely.
God’s omniscience does not negate man’s free will!
So you say, but I ask you what you would think if you bought a car that the manufacturer knew would break down the first week you drove it. This kind of thinking means you accuse God of making man in a way that he would fail almost immediately. That is another satanic accusation about Adam and Eve and about God Himself.

Wow, are you saying that you could know the future using an occult method, but God doesn’t know the future??? So, the devil showed you things that God doesn’t even know?? If this is what you’re saying, it is an absurdity of the highest degree!
Don't act stupid. I could only "guess" at the future.
Predicting the future is only “fortunetelling” when it’s done by the power of the devil — occult power. In truth, the devil lies about knowing the whole future. He only knows what GOD reveals.
These are more stupid statements. What a fortuneteller can see depends mostly on sinners remaining sinners, and saints remaining saints. That's what I found loathsome about it. Astrology also works pretty much the same way. If you know someone's weaknesses, odds are he's going to keep repeating his past mistakes. Thus you can "predict" how he'll react in similar situations. The "satanic" predicts sin in the future, based solely on the past. I repeat that's why I gave it: People did not want to hear about what was unknown, about what they or others could change themselves for the better -- they just wanted to be told the future as if it was all known without their being able to change it. It would have been very easy to predict "evil" in the future; and people would have believed it, acted on it, and made it so. Fortunetelling undermines man's free will and encourages them to think nothing can be changed.

And here we go again: You think God knew Adam would sin. You are imagining sin in the future which doesn't even exist yet. Only "now" exists. The past and future exist only when we are trapped by time.

Only God Almighty is truly and completely omniscient!
.
Keep repeating it. Use a bigger font and maybe make the letters red. That might make it true in your mind; but the Bible says otherwise. God has better things to think about than sins people have repented of or sins they must commit in the future. If you want to imagine God remembering all you sins throughout eternity, go ahead; but I tell you it's not so. If we repent of something, we won't repeat that mistake. There's no reason to remember it. Why would God torture Himself with remembering everyone's sins for all eternity?
 

Giuliano

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There is a lot about trees in the Word.
A key to understanding what trees mean may lie in Deuteronomy 20:19 if it's translated correctly. Moses wrote "man is a tree of the field." Most translations alter it. The KJV has it, "the tree of the field is man's life," adding "life" and reversing the word order.

Regardless I’ve often wondered why it is said money is the root of all evil for as far as I would assume (maybe I’m wrong)...money wasn’t in the garden.
Paul sometimes uses the word "all" for emphasis when "most" might have been better. The word for "money" there though is "argos" which means the "glittery thing." Perhaps being attracted by the glittery and glamorous is what he meant. There surely wasn't money in Eden. Eve was attracted by how "pleasant" the fruit looked. There are times I don't know how to read Paul, to be honest.

But instead all evil coming from vanity and corruption the true root as in “oh vain man” who kills(wars), steals, and destroys to have but has not and cannot obtain for he asks amiss that he might devour it on his own lust. Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

To me it wasn’t that they ate of the fruit but instead believed another voice over God’s voice and hid from Him. Whatever one has done there comes a time when the decision is to step into the light of His countenance knowing whatever happens is far better than the hiding in the dark. God sees anyway...what is hidden yet is patient and Long-suffering for one to know no matter what God is good. Adam and Eve had believed the lie God is not good and it would be better to cover what God had already seen and knew had happened; yet God still came to walk with Adam.
But was there another mistake prior to believing another voice? I think maybe Eve's first mistake was not loving God as much as she should have.

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Second, she did not stop and ask herself how her action might affect Adam and all their offspring.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Eve didn't have neighbors; but she allowed herself to think about herself without considering how it would affect others. I see this failure to love as opening a door to heeding the voice of the serpent. She also seemed to doubt God's Love for her. I remember when I was about four I was playing with a bobby pin or some other metal object by sticking it in an electrical outlet. My Mother told me not to. I thought she was just being bossy. I did it again and got shocked. My Mother said, "Oh, I told you not to do that, and you did it again?" I learned an important lesson that day -- that when my Mother told me not to do something, she was being loving not bossy. I see God as being Loving too when He told them not to eat the forbidden fruit. He wasn't "angry" that they disobeyed Him -- he's not like human fathers who feel inadequate and insecure and want to boss people around so they can feel big. No, no, no, God knew was best for them. God is Love. If only Eve had loved God more or Adam more or given all her future offspring consideration.
And to be fruitful and multiply Christ.
Eve swallowed a lie about herself. There was nothing wrong with her. She and Adam were made in the image and likeness of God. They could have been fruitful and multiplied that; but she chose to see a defect where none existed imagining that not knowing something made her inferior. Then she imagined God had made her that way and wanted to keep her that way -- as a way of control? -- when the opposite was true, God wanted them to exercise dominion. If she had been risking her own life only, her error wouldn't have been so serious; but she was putting all her offspring at risk too.
(imo and no one has to agree) The “rocks” there would be Peter and every other stony heart God has removed and a new heart given ...even the “rocks” would cry out if He (with)held His peace.
Very good. It can be said to be true in another way as well. Dirt comes from rocks; and our physical bodies come from the dirt. Somehow it's alive. While the flesh cannot be "saved" in its current form of flesh, I believe it can be "changed" and made alive in a better way.
 

Prayer Warrior

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If the shoe fits, wear it.

It doesn't fit. :)

So many words, but still no clear answer. Who sinned first? Adam or Eve? Genesis doesn't use the word "sin" about Adam or Eve.

It doesn't matter who sinned first. The order did not determine the blame. You're still thinking like a human.

What you did fail to answer was how God can forget sins when people repent. Or do you fantasize about being in Heaven with God Who remembers eternally every sin you ever committed?

I don't believe that God forgets our sins in terms of human forgetfulness. Christians will be held accountable on Judgment Day for what we do during this earth life.

2 Cor 5:10-- For we must all appear before the tribunal of Christ, so that each may be repaid for what he has done in the body, whether good or worthless.

You are not my judge, you do not know me, you make wild assumptions about me. You remind of the self-righteous Pharisees. Your imagination is vile to me, just as Michal's was. Tread cautiously then since her imagination and accusation brought down a curse on her. It did not harm David.

Jesus knows you completely and loves you passionately! He has laid you on my heart to pray for your deliverance!

Oh, you don't think I have a demon, but you do think I'm under demonic influence? Are you for real?

I told you before I was aware I was speaking to an elemental spirit who was getting information for me. I was aware of the interaction. Now you seem to think I'm still interacting with a "demon" without knowing it?

I didn't say that you were still interacting with this evil spirit. But how can you interact with an evil spirit without being influenced by it? Do you believe that you controlled this spirit? Or did this spirit have control of you in some way? This is the big lie of Satan, that we can play with fire and not get burned! The occult is pure evil fire!

So much for how foolish men imagine the omniscience of God. You may find the following hard to believe; but there are some sins others have committed against me, but I can't remember what they were. I haven't wiped them completely out of my mind since I vaguely recall they did something, but I couldn't tell you what they did. It doesn't matter to me, either. Maybe in a few years, I'll forget them completely.

I believe that it's foolish to think that God is NOT omniscient, especially after quoting a verse that says God knows ALL things! If you can't remember the sins of others against you, then how do you know for sure that they did sin against you? Oh, you "vaguely recall" them....

So you say, but I ask you what you would think if you bought a car that the manufacturer knew would break down the first week you drove it. This kind of thinking means you accuse God of making man in a way that he would fail almost immediately. That is another satanic accusation about Adam and Eve and about God Himself.

Do you think that as a teacher I never gave a test that I knew a student wouldn't pass due to their refusal to study as they were told to do? I did at times, and I knew what I would do to help the student learn the material after failing the test. Of course, this is an imperfect example of what God did. God knew that Adam would disobey Him, causing the Fall of mankind, and God, in His great mercy and compassion, knew in advance that He would die to save mankind....

Don't act stupid. I could only "guess" at the future.

Wow, I was going on what you said. So, who is being stupid here??

These are more stupid statements. What a fortuneteller can see depends mostly on sinners remaining sinners, and saints remaining saints. That's what I found loathsome about it. Astrology also works pretty much the same way. If you know someone's weaknesses, odds are he's going to keep repeating his past mistakes. Thus you can "predict" how he'll react in similar situations. The "satanic" predicts sin in the future, based solely on the past. I repeat that's why I gave it: People did not want to hear about what was unknown, about what they or others could change themselves for the better -- they just wanted to be told the future as if it was all known without their being able to change it. It would have been very easy to predict "evil" in the future; and people would have believed it, acted on it, and made it so. Fortunetelling undermines man's free will and encourages them to think nothing can be changed.

I don't know what to say. You seem to know a lot about this, which is one reason I said something about demonic influence. Like I just said, those who delve deeply into the occult reap what they sow. You cannot come away from it unscathed.

And here we go again: You think God knew Adam would sin. You are imagining sin in the future which doesn't even exist yet. Only "now" exists. The past and future exist only when we are trapped by time.

To God there is no past, present and future. Unlike us, He exists outside of time, so every point on our timeline is the same to Him. The only exception to this, if it is an exception, would be when God the Son lived on this earth. He may have experienced time as we do. Not really sure about this.

Keep repeating it. Use a bigger font and maybe make the letters red.

Only God Almighty is truly and completely omniscient!
 

Prayer Warrior

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May want to rethink this.
Why didn't you include the Bible verse that I used to back up what I was saying???

2 Cor 5:10 (HCSB)-- For we must all appear before the tribunal of Christ, so that each may be repaid for what he has done in the body, whether good or worthless.

2 Cor 5:10 (KJV)--For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
 
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Ezra

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Why didn't you include the Bible verse that I used to back up what I was saying???

2 Cor 5:10 (HCSB)-- For we must all appear before the tribunal of Christ, so that each may be repaid for what he has done in the body, whether good or worthless.

2 Cor 5:10 (KJV)--For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
this judgment is a judgement of works the bema seat . any of our sins we have repented of asked forgiveness is covered by the blood .


7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Psalm 103:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.


Micah 7:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
 

Stranger

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Even though one must be obedient to the will of God to be saved, that does not do away with grace. Grace is needed because one's obedience will not be perfect. Luke 17:10 "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do." Even though one does his duty in obeying God, one is still an unprofitable servant in need of grace for again, one's obedience will not be perfect. God forgives the obedient who repents and will not forgive the disobedient impenitent.

I NEVER said Noah deserved to be saved. Due to his obedience he found grace in the eyes of God and God graciously saved him and his house. God owed Noah nothing.

Noah would not have been saved had he not continued to obey God for God will not save the rebellious and disobedient. Again, Romans 6:16 paul said we are serving either 1) sin unto death or 2) obedience unto righteousness. Not obeying is servin sin unto death. Therefore obedience is necessary to keep one righteous before God.

Therefore grace and obedience to GOd's commands are both needed to be saved for no impenitent lawbreaker will find grace.

Again are you to argue Noah would have been saved anyway had he rebelled and disobeyed God in not building the ark?

If one obeys God how is he an unprofitable servant? If one obeys God, why does he need to repent?

Yes you did, and yes you do. You just said 'due to his obedience he found grace in the eyes of God'. Noah deserved it. He earned it.

Yet God said He saves the ungodly. (Rom. 4:5) You present a person who is to be saved as 'godly'. Yet God is going for the 'ungodly'. How strange God is compared to man.

(Rom. 6) pertains to our sanctification. After we are saved. We wrestle with many sins in our lives in this process of sanctification. Our 'obedience' does not affect the imputed righteousness by which God sees us in.

Again, you pervert grace and make it nothing but law. I have already said that Noah was saved before he built the ark. (Gen. 6:8, 7:1) You can 'what if' all you want. It doesn't change it. But yes, Noah was already saved. Had he not built the ark, perhaps the flood would not have occurred. I mean, if you want to 'what if'. (Heb. 11:7)

Stranger
 
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CNKW3

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Being born-again is the first part of your salvation. Yes you are now a new creature in Christ. Yes, you now begin your walk in newness of life. You are trying to use (Rom. 6:3-4) to mean water baptism. It does not. It is Spirit baptism. As I already showed you.
You haven’t shown anything! All you have done is say...you are wrong, you are wrong. Why are you not able to use the Bible and show me all the instances where people are declared saved, born again, etc before doing anything? It’s because it doesn’t exist. Jesus himself said that water was a prerequisite for being born again. You probably think he meant sac fluid.
I continue with you because with every post you demonstrate the lack of support and absurdity of people who hold to these types of doctrine. For example.
Rom 6 describes a person being “buried” in baptism. Being “planted” in the likeness of his death. Being “raised” to walk in newness of life. And you say this is NOT water baptism! It’s Spirit baptism! Hahah. How did you ever make it out of elementary school? And I’m the one who needs to understand?
 

Prayer Warrior

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Rom 6 describes a person being “buried” in baptism. Being “planted” in the likeness of his death. Being “raised” to walk in newness of life. And you say this is NOT water baptism! It’s Spirit baptism! Hahah.

Wow, you think water can do all of this for a person??? I would have to say "haha" to this idea.
 

Prayer Warrior

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this judgment is a judgement of works the bema seat . any of our sins we have repented of asked forgiveness is covered by the blood .


7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Psalm 103:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.


Micah 7:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

2 Cor 5:10 (KJV)--For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Then what are "bad" works in this scripture, unforgiven sin?? I don't think so.

Our sins are not held against us where salvation is concerned. If they were, then no one would be saved. But what we do as Christians will be judged by Jesus Christ.
.
 
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CNKW3

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I gave Scripture to address what we were talking about concerning Abraham's faith. It showed the moment when God imputed righteousness to him. That was faith and nothing else. That was faith directed toward the coming Saviour.

(Gen. 15:5) "...and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be."
(Gal. 3:16) "Now to Abrahm and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

Therefore, God imputed righteousness to Abraham when his faith was directed toward the coming Saviour. Therefore, we can know that when we place faith in Jesus Christ, as God has told us to do, that at that time we too have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us.

Stranger
Genesis 15:4-6 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Where’s the savior? He’s looking for children! Not a savior. Abram has no kids of his own and God tells him....you will

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
God just promised Abram that he would have many kids (seed). He was not looking for a savior. God did not even promise that nations would be blessed because of his “seed”. We know later that his name was changed to Abraham which means “father of many”. This was all about offspring and not a coming savior. You people are so corrupt with the word of God. You add whatever you want to make it sound like you are teaching truth. This is why you never post in context you only post one verse at a time.

Gal 3:16 is not a reference to Gen 15 but to Gen 22.
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
This is a promise given to Abraham AFTER his obedience with Isaac. Why is God going to Bless the nations through his SEED?
Because he believed only? No!
It’s because he OBEYED HIS VOICE!
This is why and how James can sum up this whole “accounted as righteous” argument this way.....
James 2:21-23 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Does just “faith” save you? No! A perfect “faith” does. One that includes obedience.
So, Gen 15,22 Rom 4, and James 2 are all tied together. Abraham was not counted as righteous by “faith alone”. But you don’t care. You’ll take your pride to the grave.
 

CNKW3

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See post #(191)

You need to learn the different aspects of salvation.

Sanctification is an ongoing process here and now.

Stranger
Oh I do huh. Well let’s see if I can “google” another a list!
You would agree that justification or being justified is salvation? Correct? Justified is said to mean...”just if I had not sinned”. Well, what about sanctification or being “sanctified”. Does this not happen at the exact same time? Let’s see....

We are...
Justified by the blood. Rom 5:9
Sanctified by the blood. He 10:29, 13:12

justified by faith. Rom 5:1
Sanctified by faith. Ac 26:18

justified by “the faith” (the gospel). Gal 2:16. 3:24-27
Sanctified by “the faith” (the word) Jn 17:17, Eph 5:26

Justified by washing of regeneration. Titus 3:5-7
Sanctified by washing of water. Eph 5:26

justified by grace. Tit 3:5-7
Sanctified by grace. Ac 20:32

justified by works. Ja 2:21-25
Sanctified by purging self of iniquity. 2 Tim 2:19-21 And obedience 1 pet 1:2

the justified are the called. Rom 8:30
The sanctified are the called. 1 Cor 1:2

so, you cannot be “justified” and NOT be “sanctified”. This should highlight your doctrine of being “justified” therefore saved and then being “sanctified” later is false and just another way you twist to make your doctrine seem truthful. Therefore if one is not sanctified until AFTER baptism then they are not “saved” until after baptism. Isn’t that what Jesus said in Mk 16:15,16?

Through baptism the believer is...
Justified because his sins are forgiven. Ac 2:38, 22:16
And
Sanctified because he has been added to the body of Christ or the church of Christ which is a “set apart” body of obedient believers. Ac 2:41,47. 1 Cor 12:13

everybody loves salvation or justification by “faith”. Well I love this passage...
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
if you’re justified by faith then you are also sanctified by faith. You can’t have one without the other.
 

CNKW3

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Wow, you think water can do all of this for a person??? I would have to say "haha" to this idea.
The funny thing is you are laughing at God and not me because all I did is quote what God said. But that, in actuality, is all any of you on this board do. You laugh at God at every turn.
God says....
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. You say no and laugh
Repentance and baptism are for the remission of sins. You say no and laugh
Baptism washes away sins. You say no and laugh.
Baptism does also now save us. You say no and laugh
Salvation is NOT by faith ONLY. You say no and laugh.

Should I continue?
 

Prayer Warrior

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The funny thing is you are laughing at God and not me because all I did is quote what God said. But that, in actuality, is all any of you on this board do. You laugh at God at every turn.
God says....
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. You say no and laugh
Repentance and baptism are for the remission of sins. You say no and laugh
Baptism washes away sins. You say no and laugh.
Baptism does also now save us. You say no and laugh
Salvation is NOT by faith ONLY. You say no and laugh.

Should I continue?

No, I don't laugh at God. I know better than to do this!

You disparage everyone posting here. So, are you the only one who gets it??

I'm fully aware of all of the scriptures you alluded to, and I know that not all Bible passages that deal with how to be saved say that we must be baptized in water in order to be saved.

Mere water does not wash away our sins. Blood is required. The blood of Jesus washes away our sins.

1 John 1:7--But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
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Prayer Warrior

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justified by faith. Rom 5:1
Sanctified by faith. Ac 26:18

justified by “the faith” (the gospel). Gal 2:16. 3:24-27
Sanctified by “the faith” (the word) Jn 17:17, Eph 5:26

Justified by washing of regeneration. Titus 3:5-7
Sanctified by washing of water. Eph 5:26

justified by grace. Tit 3:5-7
Sanctified by grace. Ac 20:32

justified by works. Ja 2:21-25
Sanctified by purging self of iniquity. 2 Tim 2:19-21 And obedience 1 pet 1:2


This is quite the interesting list. How can we be justified by faith AND justified by works??

Here are some verses that must be considered:

Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Galatians 5:6 - For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 2:21 - I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

So, we are justified by faith, period. Our works show whether we actually have faith. IOW, if we have faith, then our works showing this will follow. The faith comes first and is what justifies us. Otherwise, Paul and the other apostles would have made sure that they said we are justified by faith and works every time. But they did not.
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VictoryinJesus

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2 Cor 5:10 (HCSB)-- For we must all appear before the tribunal of Christ, so that each may be repaid for what he has done in the body, whether good or worthless.


Interesting version. Never read it but only in KJV. Appear before Christ ... “to give”, “be repaid”, “to receive” what was done in the body ...whether good or worthless. “Worthless” is vital there in there is only one profit and only one which is not “worthless”. “Worthless” burned, consumed, coming to nothing but ashes. Yet God says He will give beauty for ashes. The beauty there “glory unto the Lord”. 1 Corinthians 10:31 and Colossians 3:17 says to do all things unto His glory and He comes to be glorified in His saints of that which is not worthless. “To give” “be repaid” “to receive” ...blessing for those who curse you. Pray for those who use and despise you. Overcome evil with good. This is not worthless.
 

Stranger

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You haven’t shown anything! All you have done is say...you are wrong, you are wrong. Why are you not able to use the Bible and show me all the instances where people are declared saved, born again, etc before doing anything? It’s because it doesn’t exist. Jesus himself said that water was a prerequisite for being born again. You probably think he meant sac fluid.
I continue with you because with every post you demonstrate the lack of support and absurdity of people who hold to these types of doctrine. For example.
Rom 6 describes a person being “buried” in baptism. Being “planted” in the likeness of his death. Being “raised” to walk in newness of life. And you say this is NOT water baptism! It’s Spirit baptism! Hahah. How did you ever make it out of elementary school? And I’m the one who needs to understand?

See post #(191)

Stranger
 

Stranger

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Genesis 15:4-6 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Where’s the savior? He’s looking for children! Not a savior. Abram has no kids of his own and God tells him....you will

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
God just promised Abram that he would have many kids (seed). He was not looking for a savior. God did not even promise that nations would be blessed because of his “seed”. We know later that his name was changed to Abraham which means “father of many”. This was all about offspring and not a coming savior. You people are so corrupt with the word of God. You add whatever you want to make it sound like you are teaching truth. This is why you never post in context you only post one verse at a time.

Gal 3:16 is not a reference to Gen 15 but to Gen 22.
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
This is a promise given to Abraham AFTER his obedience with Isaac. Why is God going to Bless the nations through his SEED?
Because he believed only? No!
It’s because he OBEYED HIS VOICE!
This is why and how James can sum up this whole “accounted as righteous” argument this way.....
James 2:21-23 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Does just “faith” save you? No! A perfect “faith” does. One that includes obedience.
So, Gen 15,22 Rom 4, and James 2 are all tied together. Abraham was not counted as righteous by “faith alone”. But you don’t care. You’ll take your pride to the grave.
Genesis 15:4-6 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Where’s the savior? He’s looking for children! Not a savior. Abram has no kids of his own and God tells him....you will

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
God just promised Abram that he would have many kids (seed). He was not looking for a savior. God did not even promise that nations would be blessed because of his “seed”. We know later that his name was changed to Abraham which means “father of many”. This was all about offspring and not a coming savior. You people are so corrupt with the word of God. You add whatever you want to make it sound like you are teaching truth. This is why you never post in context you only post one verse at a time.

Gal 3:16 is not a reference to Gen 15 but to Gen 22.
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
This is a promise given to Abraham AFTER his obedience with Isaac. Why is God going to Bless the nations through his SEED?
Because he believed only? No!
It’s because he OBEYED HIS VOICE!
This is why and how James can sum up this whole “accounted as righteous” argument this way.....
James 2:21-23 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Does just “faith” save you? No! A perfect “faith” does. One that includes obedience.
So, Gen 15,22 Rom 4, and James 2 are all tied together. Abraham was not counted as righteous by “faith alone”. But you don’t care. You’ll take your pride to the grave.

The Saviour is there because God said He is there. (Gal. 3:16) "...He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." What did he say in (Gen. 15:5)? "...So shall thy seed be"

What did he then say in (Gen. 15:6) "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

In (Gen. 22:18) it also says 'seed'. Which means it also speaks of Christ. Just like with (Gen. 15:5).

But, in (Gen. 15:5), Abraham is declared righteous by God. Not in (Gen. 22:18).

Pretty simple really.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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Oh I do huh. Well let’s see if I can “google” another a list!
You would agree that justification or being justified is salvation? Correct? Justified is said to mean...”just if I had not sinned”. Well, what about sanctification or being “sanctified”. Does this not happen at the exact same time? Let’s see....

We are...
Justified by the blood. Rom 5:9
Sanctified by the blood. He 10:29, 13:12

justified by faith. Rom 5:1
Sanctified by faith. Ac 26:18

justified by “the faith” (the gospel). Gal 2:16. 3:24-27
Sanctified by “the faith” (the word) Jn 17:17, Eph 5:26

Justified by washing of regeneration. Titus 3:5-7
Sanctified by washing of water. Eph 5:26

justified by grace. Tit 3:5-7
Sanctified by grace. Ac 20:32

justified by works. Ja 2:21-25
Sanctified by purging self of iniquity. 2 Tim 2:19-21 And obedience 1 pet 1:2

the justified are the called. Rom 8:30
The sanctified are the called. 1 Cor 1:2

so, you cannot be “justified” and NOT be “sanctified”. This should highlight your doctrine of being “justified” therefore saved and then being “sanctified” later is false and just another way you twist to make your doctrine seem truthful. Therefore if one is not sanctified until AFTER baptism then they are not “saved” until after baptism. Isn’t that what Jesus said in Mk 16:15,16?

Through baptism the believer is...
Justified because his sins are forgiven. Ac 2:38, 22:16
And
Sanctified because he has been added to the body of Christ or the church of Christ which is a “set apart” body of obedient believers. Ac 2:41,47. 1 Cor 12:13

everybody loves salvation or justification by “faith”. Well I love this passage...
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
if you’re justified by faith then you are also sanctified by faith. You can’t have one without the other.

When one is justified he is sanctified in that he is set apart by God for His purpose. But he then has a walk of salvation which is his sanctification.

If justified and sanctified are the same thing then why ever use a different term? They are not the same thing. Because the believer is justified then he is sanctified to be used of God. That sanctification involves his growth as a believer. It involves his struggles, his victories, all based on his justification, but it is called his sanctification.

I never said one does not experience sanctification without faith.

(Acts 2:38) is the water baptism of the Gospel of the Kingdom preached to Israel. (Matt. 3:2,6) (4:17) And Peter was addressing 'Israel'. (Acts 2:22) This is not the water baptism of the Church.

In (Acts 22:16) note it did not say 'believe'. Why? Because belief is assumed. "calling on the name of the Lord". Paul was already a believer. (Acts 22:8) "...Who art thou Lord?...) Paul didn't know Who He was but He was Lord Whoever He was. Then he is baptized. Water Baptism pictures what already has taken place. It does not initiate justification. (1 Peter 3:20-21)

Concerning the passage you love, (Acts 26:18), there is nothing there of 'water baptism'. But there is of his faith. (Acts:15) "...Who art thou Lord?"

Stranger