Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

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CovenantPromise

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CovenantPromise said:
If you are immersed in His doctrine you are immersed in Him. If you are immersed in His name you are not just simply immersed in water but in His commandment. If baptism were simply to be immersed in water then He would be emphasizing the importance of taking baths. However, since His word prospers where he sends it, when He says water baptism is essential to cleanse the flesh of the filth of sin then it is and you are raised up in Christ when it is done . This is a nod to the flood and those saved through the waters which separated the righteous from that which is unrighteous. This goes along side with baptism in the Fire of the Holy Spirit which fills the soul. Both are Holy Spirit purposed. And both are NEEDED to enter heaven just as HE SAID. I did not coin anything He said , I simply believe every word He says without question. God Bless!
 

OzSpen

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Believers baptism is an evangelical fantasy. Baptism is a Grace from God. I actually commented on the thief on the cross you need to read my post better, all of them he was baptized with the baptism of desire. St. Peter said when ask what to do to be saved "repent and be baptized"

That 'baptism of desire'. Sounds like historyb's fantasy.
 

Mungo

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Nothing confusing here.
A. The water in Noah's flood didn't save anyone. It killed everyone in it.
B. The ark saved all those inside. A type of Christ..
C. ...not as a removal of dirt from the body...i.e. water.
D. ...an appeal to God for a good conscience..i.e. your public declaration for Jesus at your water baptism which happens AFTER you are saved.

You do not understand what Peter is saying at all. You are missing the whole point of the type and anti-type.
 

Mungo

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I believe it is a trivial difference, and with this I agree with charistmiclady.

1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Yes, baptism with water. Just because the word Spirit appears there doesn't mean it's this fictional "spirit baptism".

It is in baptism with water that the Holy Spirit acts to cleanse us spiritually and bring us into the Body of Christ.
"he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit" (Ti 3:5)
 

charity

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Hello there

So many have taken part in this thread, with so many differing views, thank you all for your input.

* The following is a summary of what Scripture records on the subject:-

- Baptism with water and baptism with the gifts from the Holy Spirit, and the spiritual baptism of baptism unto Christ and unto His death are a means of identification. The context of each always explains with whom one is identified.

- Paul, unlike Peter, did not come to baptise with water, although he had baptised a few. When Paul wrote of baptism in I Cor. 10:1-4, in Rom. 6:3-4, in Gal. 3:27, in Eph. 4:4-5 and in Col. 2:11-13 he was not writing of a ceremonial water baptism, he was writing of a spiritual experience that identified one with God. Peter also wrote of a spiritual baptism unto Christ and His death in I Peter 3:20-21.

- Paul’s message of baptism was no different in the post-Acts period than it was in the Acts period. That is to say the epistles written during the Acts period speak of the baptism unto Christ and unto His death, which are the same baptisms Paul wrote of in his epistles written to the church which is His body in (Eph, Phil, Col, 1 & 2 Tim, Titus and Philemon).

- Every believer is baptised, but not with water.

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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@VictoryinJesus. @Ernest T. Bass, @Waiting on him.

Hello there

So many have taken part in this thread, with so many differing views, thank you all for your input.

* The following is a summary of what Scripture records on the subject:-

- Baptism with water and baptism with the gifts from the Holy Spirit, and the spiritual baptism of baptism unto Christ and unto His death are a means of identification. The context of each always explains with whom one is identifie

You mention 3 baptisms above, but there is just "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) that is now in effect. This one baptism would be the baptism found in Christ's great commission (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; Luke 24:47). This one baptism of the great commission:
--is commanded,
--is administered by disciples (humans) as Phillip water baptized the eunuch
--contains a death burial and resurrection ie, the gospel that must be obeyed (2 Thessalonians 1:8).
saves,
--is how disciples are made
-- it it to be perpetually taught as Paul taught it
--lasts till the end of the world.

All these fit water baptism and not any kind of spirit baptism.


charity said:
- Paul, unlike Peter, did not come to baptize with water, although he had baptized a few. When Paul wrote of baptism in I Cor. 10:1-4, in Rom. 6:3-4, in Gal. 3:27, in Eph. 4:4-5 and in Col. 2:11-13 he was not writing of a ceremonial water baptism, he was writing of a spiritual experience that identified one with God. Peter also wrote of a spiritual baptism unto Christ and His death in I Peter 3:20-21.

- Paul’s message of baptism was no different in the post-Acts period than it was in the Acts period. That is to say the epistles written during the Acts period speak of the baptism unto Christ and unto His death, which are the same baptisms Paul wrote of in his epistles written to the church which is His body in (Eph, Phil, Col, 1 & 2 Tim, Titus and Philemon).

(1)
There is "one faith" (Ephesians 4:5) meaning there is just one gospel system of faith therefore Peter and Paul taught that same "one faith".
I have had people ask me "what faith are you" with that question implying there are many different faithS yet there has never been but one faith. The Bible does not teach the idea that there is a buffet of many different faiths and people choose from that buffet whatever faith fits their personal liking. Such an idea comes from man and man's invention of denominationalism.

(2)
Galatians 1:23 "But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed."

"The faith" refers to that one faith found within the pages of the NT which Christ's calls "truth" (John 17:17) and truth never contradicts itself. Hence Peter and Paul taught the one truth, their inspiration does not contradict each other.

Back when Paul (Saul) was a unbeliever he went about destroying the faith he once destroyed. Saul went about destroying the faith as taught by the original 12 Apostles (including Peter) but Paul "now preacheth" (present tense) that faith. Saul went about to destroy the faith of the congregation of the church located in Jerusalem that included Acts of the Apostles 2:38. Paul as a believer now preaches that faith that includes water baptism of the great commission for Paul:

-- obeyed the great commission command of Acts 2:38 himself (Acts of the Apostles 22:16) and had his sins remitted, washed away,

--Paul water baptized others (1 Corinthians 1:14-16) hence Paul could not be sent to literally not baptize for he DID baptize others because he, as other disciples, was under Christ's great commission command to go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,.

--Paul taught the necessity of the "one" water baptism to others 1 Corinthians 1:12-13; Romans 6:3-7; Galatians 3:27; Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5; Colossians 2:11-12.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Like I said, it isn't wrong. It was done, but not always. My point is that it is more important to be emmersed in Christ than in water.

Hi Clint,

This verse came to my mind. And it is more than going out to preach and you will be saved. It is not only believing in your heart, as how you said, "immersed in Christ," it is not being ashamed to act on it. Part of those actions is letting another baptize you in water from a good conscience. That is a public declaration.

Romans 10:
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

This could very well be why Peter said, "now baptism saves you." Public outward obedience. I never understood that until just now. It seems to go with this verse too in an abstruse kind of way; at least this verse was also brought to mind. If by the Spirit, then it is truth. You judge.

Romans 1:
15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
 
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Steve Owen

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You mention 3 baptisms above, but there is just "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) that is now in effect.
Matthew 3:11. "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me...........will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.......' However you look at this, it is two baptisms, not one. You may say that one of these baptisms is now obsolete, but if this is so it is surely more likely to be that of John rather than that of the Lord Jesus?
This one baptism would be the baptism found in Christ's great commission (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; Luke 24:47). This one baptism of the great commission:
--is commanded,
--is administered by disciples (humans) as Phillip water baptized the eunuch
--contains a death burial and resurrection ie, the gospel that must be obeyed (2 Thessalonians 1:8).
saves,
--is how disciples are made
-- it it to be perpetually taught as Paul taught it
--lasts till the end of the world.

All these fit water baptism and not any kind of spirit baptism.
Err......no.
Matthew 28:17-20. "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you......."
The verb in this sentence is 'make disciples.' Everything else is participles. So the command is that as we go, we make disciples and then baptize them. Now since Romans 8:9 states that 'if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His,' anyone who is made a disciple must be born again and therefore baptized in the Holy Spirit. It is such people who are to be baptized in water in the name of the Triune God, and then taught the doctrines of the Christian Faith.
(1)
There is "one faith" (Ephesians 4:5) meaning there is just one gospel system of faith therefore Peter and Paul taught that same "one faith".
I have had people ask me "what faith are you" with that question implying there are many different faithS yet there has never been but one faith. The Bible does not teach the idea that there is a buffet of many different faiths and people choose from that buffet whatever faith fits their personal liking. Such an idea comes from man and man's invention of denominationalism.

(2)
Galatians 1:23 "But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed."

"The faith" refers to that one faith found within the pages of the NT which Christ's calls "truth" (John 17:17) and truth never contradicts itself. Hence Peter and Paul taught the one truth, their inspiration does not contradict each other.
You are correct. There is only one faith. It is to turn from ones sins and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation (cf. Mark 1:15). But that one true faith is to repent, believe on Christ for salvation and then to be baptized in water. There is certainly something strange if someone, having trusted in the Lord Jesus as Lord and Saviour, will not follow His simple ordinance to be baptized in water, but that does not change the fact that salvation is by grace through faith, and that grace includes being born from above.
--Paul water baptized others (1 Corinthians 1:14-16) hence Paul could not be sent to literally not baptize for he DID baptize others because he, as other disciples, was under Christ's great commission command to go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 1:17 is in the Bible, whether you like it or not. Certainly we are to baptize, but making disciples is the primary command. To baptize someone who is not a disciple is unfortunate, but sometimes happens. To do so knowingly is a grievous sin which has led to all sorts of problems within the churches. For a disciple not to be baptized is certainly wrong, but it is something that can be repented of and put right at any time.
--Paul taught the necessity of the "one" water baptism to others 1 Corinthians 1:12-13; Romans 6:3-7; Galatians 3:27; Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5; Colossians 2:11-12.
To say that these verses 'prove' the necessity of water baptism for salvation is a massive stretch.
 

Enoch111

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You mention 3 baptisms above, but there is just "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) that is now in effect.
This is incorrect. There are at least three baptisms, and Paul mentions *baptisms* (plural) in Hebrews 6:2: Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
1. Baptism WITH the Holy Spirit
2. Baptism BY the Holy Spirit
3. Baptism by immersion in water
4. Baptism with fire (metaphorical for intense suffering)
 

101G

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Romans 10:
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
BINGO, baptism Pardon, our sins, JESUS/the Gospel, Saves us from our sins. for, Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" so Baptism takes care of past sins. Hebrews 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." and John's baptism is for the remission of sins that sre past. AND THOSE SINS COMMITTED IN CHRIST ARE FORGIVEN, supportive scripture, 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

PICJAG.
 

Mungo

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Just like every other catholic that can't answer questions. Just claim the other guy is wrong:rolleyes:
As though that's a meaningful apologetic.

Really?
And what question have I not answered?
 

charity

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Hi there,

Don't forget the record in Acts 16:25-34, which records the incident in which Paul's jailer asked Paul, 'what must I do to be saved?' (Acts 16:30). Paul's reply is given in verse 31, 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved'. Paul says nothing of baptism in order to be saved. The jailer was baptised after his statement of faith in Christ, but that does not change the fact that Paul does not mention baptism as a requirement of salvation.

Salvation is the result of believing in Christ, i.e., Who He is, the Son of God, not of water baptism. The message of salvation is given in John 1:16.

'For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son
that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life'

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Mungo

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Hi there,

Don't forget the record in Acts 16:25-34, which records the incident in which Paul's jailer asked Paul, 'what must I do to be saved?' (Acts 16:30). Paul's reply is given in verse 31, 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved'. Paul says nothing of baptism in order to be saved. The jailer was baptised after his statement of faith in Christ, but that does not change the fact that Paul does not mention baptism as a requirement of salvation.

Salvation is the result of believing in Christ, i.e., Who He is, the Son of God, not of water baptism. The message of salvation is given in John 1:16.

'For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son
that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life'

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You have to take ALL scripture into account not just cherry pick one verse.

Paul writes:
"Or are you unaware that we who were baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection."
(Rom 6:3-4)

“..he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)

"You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions;" (Col 2:11-13)

"For through faith you are all children of God in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendant, heirs according to the promise." (Gal 3:26-27)

Do you think those verses have nothing to do with salvation?
 
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