Does this quote contradict the Word?

CovenantPromise · Nov 2, 2019

"Neither graces , nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God. These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection. My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"
(Diary1107)

The reason I ask is because:

Ephesians 2:7-9
Alive with Christ
…7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.…

Now my beef is with Faustina this quote is wrong in so many ways. It is a contradiction not just to the Word but within itself. Whether put in plural as "graces" grace is grace. And of course you can be full of grace. This quote would even go against the "hail Mary" . It would seem however , Catholics do not see that.

How can one reconcile this statement to the Word?
After all , intimacy with God is solely by grace.Once in faith- we say YES to His will, it is Grace which keeps us in it! This quote basically says the opposite of Ephesians.
Paul is clear Grace is not from ourselves, but this quote seems to suggest just that. Any person's sanctity comes by Grace and by grace the gifts. And through gifts in grace it becomes more and more evident that God's presents is within the sanctified soul as one grows in his Christian life. In one( failed) swoop the quote denies Grace because perfection only comes by grace. Grace is what aligns our will to God.

"My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"

Sorry Faustina that is only accomplished through Grace, not from ourselves.

James 2:10
10Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

THE WHOLE OF THE TEACHING OF CHRIST is based on Mercy -Him and Grace given by Him. Grace is the ONLY way we are sanctified! Revelation is God revealing Himself within the sanctified soul. Rapture which means ecstasy , is when the Christian is in deep union -Love with God. And gifts are the fruits of Grace keeping in faith. Faustina is off base with her statements. She has denied grace which sanctifies. Therefore, in denying that, how can she have perfect union with God as she claims?

Cannot wait to hear responses. God Bless!

Hidden In Him · Nov 2, 2019

CovenantPromise said:
"Neither graces , nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God. These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection. My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"
(Diary1107)

The reason I ask is because:

Ephesians 2:7-9
Alive with Christ
…7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.…

Now my beef is with Faustina this quote is wrong in so many ways. It is a contradiction not just to the Word but within itself. Whether put in plural as "graces" grace is grace. And of course you can be full of grace. This quote would even go against the "hail Mary" . It would seem however , Catholics do not see that.

How can one reconcile this statement to the Word?
After all , intimacy with God is solely by grace.Once in faith- we say YES to His will, it is Grace which keeps us in it! This quote basically says the opposite of Ephesians.
Paul is clear Grace is not from ourselves, but this quote seems to suggest just that. Any person's sanctity comes by Grace and by grace the gifts. And through gifts in grace it becomes more and more evident that God's presents is within the sanctified soul as one grows in his Christian life. In one( failed) swoop the quote denies Grace because perfection only comes by grace. Grace is what aligns our will to God.

"My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"

Sorry Faustina that is only accomplished through Grace, not from ourselves.

James 2:10
10Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

THE WHOLE OF THE TEACHING OF CHRIST is based on Mercy -Him and Grace given by Him. Grace is the ONLY way we are sanctified! Revelation is God revealing Himself within the sanctified soul. Rapture which means ecstasy , is when the Christian is in deep union -Love with God. And gifts are the fruits of Grace keeping in faith. Faustina is off base with her statements. She has denied grace which sanctifies. Therefore, in denying that, how can she have perfect union with God as she claims?

Cannot wait to hear responses. God Bless!

Greetings in Christ Jesus.

I'm not a Catholic, but by "graces" Faustina likely meant Divine visitations here. She purportedly received numerous personal visitations from the Lord during her life, which came (i.e. would have come, for those who don't believe she did) as a result of His grace. So the quote here essentially reads (in context), "Neither visitations, nor revelations, nor raptures (i.e. spiritual experiences), nor gifts..."

To tell you the truth, personally I like the quote. She's saying that the Lord Himself and closeness to Him means more to her than all the supernatural experiences He has granted her by His grace, which is a good position to take. I think the opposite would actually be the more dangerous to take: To love His grace (including regarding salvation even, which is the point you seem to be driving on) more than we actually love Him. I sometimes worry that many Christians feel this way. They love His grace more than they love Him.

But that's what I see in the quote.

Blessings in Christ, and thanks. I know you see it differently, but personally this quote brings to mind the command to love Him with one's whole heart, mind, soul and strength, more so than any grace He can bestow.

Hidden In Him

CovenantPromise · Nov 2, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Greetings in Christ Jesus.

I'm not a Catholic, but by "graces" Faustina likely meant Divine visitations here. She purportedly received numerous personal visitations from the Lord during her life, which came (i.e. would have come, for those who don't believe she did) as a result of His grace. So the quote here essentially reads (in context), "Neither visitations, nor revelations, nor raptures (i.e. spiritual experiences), nor gifts..."

To tell you the truth, personally I like the quote. She's saying that the Lord Himself and closeness to Him means more to her than all the supernatural experiences He has granted her by His grace, which is a good position to take. I think the opposite would actually be the more dangerous to take: To love His grace (including regarding salvation even, which is the point you seem to be driving on) more than we actually love Him. I sometimes worry that many Christians feel this way. They love His grace more than they love Him.

But that's what I see in the quote.

Blessings in Christ, and thanks. I know you see it differently, but

Hidden In Him

No this is the entire quote you left out the very opening of what I posted. "Neither graces , nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God. These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection. My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"
(Diary1107)
Really? likely meant? Interesting a new meaning to graces (ALL IS GRACE)-do honor or credit to (someone or something) by one's presence. Can any graces of heaven come outside of Grace itself? Are not all graces, Grace ? What kind of graces is she speaking of ? And is not all grace because of the revelation of Christ - Mercy of God revealed to men? you said - "personally this quote brings to mind the command to love Him with one's whole heart, mind, soul and strength, more so than any grace He can bestow." Weird??? "More so than any GRACE He can bestow"??? Did you hear yourself?

CovenantPromise · Nov 2, 2019

Will- is the choice of Christ -to accept God's Mercy. Grace is the strength to remain in it. "For the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". It is impossible to accomplish the will of God without graces. Graces keep us going. Faith- is giving up ones will to God.Once sanctified in Grace our faith is revealed by works. And works in faith are the revelation of God to world of His presents in you. But for SURE you can have none of what she said without all of what God said. Mercy=Christ making an exchange for us- taking away sin and taking the punishment. Faith is believing He is the way , the truth and the LIFE, Grace is what preserves us and graces are a NECESSITY in order to survive.

shnarkle · Nov 3, 2019

CovenantPromise said:
After all , intimacy with God is solely by grace.Once in faith- we say YES to His will,

Some do, but not all. God's grace is bestowed upon the weeds as well as the flowers.

it is Grace which keeps us in it! This quote basically says the opposite of Ephesians.
Paul is clear Grace is not from ourselves, but this quote seems to suggest just that.

No, look at it again. " gifts granted TO a soul"

"My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"

Christ said, "Not my will, but thine". Christ aligned his will with the father so that they were one. That's a pretty close union. Theory is nothing without praxis. Faith is nothing without works. When one's actions are according to God's will operating within them, that is consistent with God's sanctity and perfection.

Sorry Faustina that is only accomplished through Grace, not from ourselves.

You're conflating "through" with "from". These are different prepositions. She used "with", as in "in, with, and through". She never said "from". She knows where it all comes from.

James 2:10
10Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

THE WHOLE OF THE TEACHING OF CHRIST is based on Mercy -Him and Grace given by Him. Grace is the ONLY way we are sanctified! Revelation is God revealing Himself within the sanctified soul. Rapture which means ecstasy , is when the Christian is in deep union -Love with God. And gifts are the fruits of Grace keeping in faith. Faustina is off base with her statements. She has denied grace which sanctifies. Therefore, in denying that, how can she have perfect union with God as she claims?

Cannot wait to hear responses. God Bless!

You seem to be reading things into the text which aren't there. Strawman argument. Pay closer attention to the prepositions she uses, and it should become more clear what she's actually saying.

Matthew confirms what she's saying by pointing out how Christ knows who are his: "fruit" which comes only according to God's will which she admits must be aligned with God. Notiice that the others are casting out demons, healing, etc., but they're not doing it according to God's will. They're lawless.

shnarkle · Nov 3, 2019

CovenantPromise said:
No this is the entire quote you left out the very opening of what I posted. "Neither graces , nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God. These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection. My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"
(Diary1107)
Really? likely meant? Interesting a new meaning to graces (ALL IS GRACE)-do honor or credit to (someone or something) by one's presence. Can any graces of heaven come outside of Grace itself? Are not all graces, Grace ? What kind of graces is she speaking of ? And is not all grace because of the revelation of Christ - Mercy of God revealed to men? you said - "personally this quote brings to mind the command to love Him with one's whole heart, mind, soul and strength, more so than any grace He can bestow." Weird??? "More so than any GRACE He can bestow"??? Did you hear yourself?

You're committing a logical fallacy. You're assuming that just because she says "not by..etc.", that she means they are not involved or a part of the process. She's not saying that at all. She's pointing out that all of them can be given, but if they all fall on barren ground, it is for nought. God's grace is abundant, but it must be recieved. She notes this for our edification, and it's worthy of note becuase as God's grace is received, it is how we're able to pass it on. If we don't get it, we can't pass it on. If we hoard it, we can't pass it on either. If we hold onto it, then instead of being a channel for God's grace, we become a dam. We dam God's grace.

shnarkle · Nov 3, 2019

CovenantPromise said:
Will- is the choice of Christ -to accept God's Mercy. Grace is the strength to remain in it. "For the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". It is impossible to accomplish the will of God without graces. Graces keep us going. Faith- is giving up ones will to God.Once sanctified in Grace our faith is revealed by works. And works in faith are the revelation of God to world of His presents in you. But for SURE you can have none of what she said without all of what God said. Mercy=Christ making an exchange for us- taking away sin and taking the punishment. Faith is believing He is the way , the truth and the LIFE, Grace is what preserves us and graces are a NECESSITY in order to survive.

She isn't denying any of that. She's simply pointing out that if it doesn't produce fruit according to God's will, it's useless. But she's saying more than that really. She's pointing out that it isn't seen in the outcome, but in the union with God's will. She becomes God's instrument to carry out his will.

This is what Christ means when he says, "I only do what I see my father doing, and only say what is given me to say from him" That is exactly what the Mosaic law says when it says to "bind the law on your hand, and as a frontlet between thine eyes" so that everything one does is a manifestation of God's will in action, and everything one thinks or says is God's word. God's salvation is personified in Christ.

stunnedbygrace · Nov 3, 2019

Yeah, I think you are not seeing the spirit of what the woman wrote...

CovenantPromise · Nov 3, 2019

Some do, but not all. God's grace is bestowed upon the weeds as well as the flowers.
CPsays:
Do the weeds enter heaven? Is it not by Grace that we are saved? Are you saying that at the separating of the weeds and the wheat- a fruit and flower of substance, that the weeds too will be gathered into His barn?

No, look at it again. " gifts granted TO a soul"

CPsays:
I did look at it, and before that she begins with "Neither graces", and nor this or that and concludes with "NOR gifts to a soul" again you left out NOR. Gifts of God comes as an addition to what she first says. It is not solely about gifts because she uses 'neither' and 'nor' meaning not all including , in her last statement "gifts of the soul " she is excluding all that follows her first statement of neither and even nor. I know language very well thank you very much! She did NOT say all aforementioned without 'neither' or 'nor' then say simply "gifts of the soul" if that were the case then you would have a point. But she didn't. Each - graces, revelations , raptures are mentioned in their singularity as are gifts. And gifts as she mentions them are not in conclusion as to speaking of all the rest either but, are as separate as to making a list. Period! She discredited all and concluded that with that, ones will is aligned with God's??? She got that wrong is all I am saying.

Grace is a gift given not because of one's own merit but is a favor done unto you for saying YES to God. Mercy is the FIRST gift- CHRIST, in embracing Him Grace is what is given us and NO ONE can have any gift or union with God without Grace and graces (plural) simply means deeper grace.

"Christ said, "Not my will, but thine". Christ aligned his will with the father so that they were one. That's a pretty close union. Theory is nothing without praxis. Faith is nothing without works. When one's actions are according to God's will operating within them, that is consistent with God's sanctity and perfection".

CP says:
"There is no mediator between God and men other than Christ" For our will to be align with God the Father it is to be aligned with Christ. Yes Christ said your will not mine but one must accept Christ to know the Father's will and no one can bypass Christ"He who sees the Son sees the Father" and Grace is union with God - graces are simply deepening union which is eternal. Grace is UNION, graces simply is continual union,. It can not be forgone at any point and one still have intimacy with God. Graces are needed to align our wills, it is not something that we can do of ourselves, We simply have the choice to ask through prayer and continual reflection on our actions, for the grace to do the fathers will.

"You're conflating "through" with "from". These are different prepositions. She used "with", as in "in, with, and through". She never said "from". She knows where it all comes from".

CP says: What she does not know obviously is, it is by Grace we are saved and with grace we continue in salvation. Graces are a Necessity to align and accomplish the will of God. Our wills are fortified by continual grace/graces.

"You seem to be reading things into the text which aren't there. Strawman argument. Pay closer attention to the prepositions she uses, and it should become more clear what she's actually saying".

CP says:
As soon as you learn what grace means/graces. And what revelation means. and for sure you do not know what a preposition means:a word governing, and usually preceding, a noun or pronoun and expressing a relation to another word or element in the clause. There is no association with what you conclude she was saying. She did not link neither, and nor . NOR can they be linked because they are not elements which link together the sum of an action . Rather she spoke as each as individual actions separate from each other not as performing as one in purpose but each in their singularity. So the only strawmen in this discussion is what she said and what you said.

"Neither graces , nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God."
That is a lie, it is exactly those things which make the soul perfect and is the ONLY way to HAVE intimate union with God! LEARN TO READ!
If graces do not perfect what does? If God does not bestow His grace how is one perfected? If God did not reveal Himself as the Christ (ANOINTED ONE) Emmanuel with us, how could we be saved ?He is revelation. If He does not continue to guide in revelations how do we grow? If he does not fortify us through grace upon grace how do we grow in rapture -ecstasy (LOVE) with God? If God's gifts in Grace do not perfect the soul then how is the soul perfected? Lastly if all the aforementioned are not what is intimate union with God, what is?

"These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection."
CP says:
Mercy -Christ and His Grace can not be separated. They are one as God is one. And when given Mercy you are in grace:Ephesians 2:7-9
Alive with Christ
…7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace ,( It does not say rich grace but riches of His grace which means many gifts in grace-graces ) demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.… (this means no work once in faith is outside of His Grace).
And those works in faith are One as God is one.

That would mean all - Mercy, Grace, faith and works are ONE ! And all is love. That means all is God for God is Love, all is an extension of Him. And mercy is the introduction to God's grace/graces.

'"My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"
(Diary1107)

CP says: which only comes by graces given by Christ-Mercy. Without graces one's will can not align with God's .
1Peter 1:7
7so that the proven character of your faith—more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Can not have any of what she concludes at the end of her quote without Revelation/Revelations because from the first they do not cease in union with God, it is revelation upon revelation upon revelation so forth and so on- eternal. She has essentially tried to divided the Mercy of God while claiming all devotion to that Mercy and calling everyone to it. Very strange. no matter how anyone turns it she got that wrong!
1 Peter 1:10
10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who foretold the grace to come to you, searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.
With the first taste of Grace flow all graces and do not cease and are what align our wills with God.
As for this last statement of yours:

"Matthew confirms what she's saying by pointing out how Christ knows who are his: "fruit" which comes only according to God's will which she admits must be aligned with God. Notiice that the others are casting out demons, healing, etc., but they're not doing it according to God's will. They're
lawless".
CP says:
Matthew 7:15-20
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

A house divided can not stand. Neither denial of spiritual graces as necessary, nor contradictions, nor denial of the need of revelations- God revealing Himself in purpose for men. Sorry she got that wrong.

Episkopos · Nov 3, 2019

CovenantPromise said:
"Neither graces , nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God. These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection. My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"
(Diary1107)

The reason I ask is because:

Ephesians 2:7-9
Alive with Christ
…7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.…

Now my beef is with Faustina this quote is wrong in so many ways. It is a contradiction not just to the Word but within itself. Whether put in plural as "graces" grace is grace. And of course you can be full of grace. This quote would even go against the "hail Mary" . It would seem however , Catholics do not see that.

How can one reconcile this statement to the Word?
After all , intimacy with God is solely by grace.Once in faith- we say YES to His will, it is Grace which keeps us in it! This quote basically says the opposite of Ephesians.
Paul is clear Grace is not from ourselves, but this quote seems to suggest just that. Any person's sanctity comes by Grace and by grace the gifts. And through gifts in grace it becomes more and more evident that God's presents is within the sanctified soul as one grows in his Christian life. In one( failed) swoop the quote denies Grace because perfection only comes by grace. Grace is what aligns our will to God.

"My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"

Sorry Faustina that is only accomplished through Grace, not from ourselves.

James 2:10
10Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

THE WHOLE OF THE TEACHING OF CHRIST is based on Mercy -Him and Grace given by Him. Grace is the ONLY way we are sanctified! Revelation is God revealing Himself within the sanctified soul. Rapture which means ecstasy , is when the Christian is in deep union -Love with God. And gifts are the fruits of Grace keeping in faith. Faustina is off base with her statements. She has denied grace which sanctifies. Therefore, in denying that, how can she have perfect union with God as she claims?

Cannot wait to hear responses. God Bless!

Grace is a gift. The grace of God doesn't justify us....it's what happens to us inside that grace that will determine who we become. We will be judged against what we have received.

If God is the Potter then grace is the tool. But we can be very hard to mold...or easier....it depends on us. Some people remain hard even after grace is shown or given...

Deborah_ · Nov 3, 2019

CovenantPromise said:
Now my beef is with Faustina this quote is wrong in so many ways. It is a contradiction not just to the Word but within itself. Whether put in plural as "graces" grace is grace. And of course you can be full of grace. This quote would even go against the "hail Mary" . It would seem however , Catholics do not see that.

I think you are misunderstanding her. The word "grace" can be an 'uncountable' noun (always singular) or a 'countable' noun (plural 'graces'). The meanings are different.
"Graces" in the plural does not refer to the grace by which we are saved (always singular) but is another word for 'gift'.

CovenantPromise · Nov 3, 2019

You are all entitled to your opinions. I am simply saying I disagree with some things she said. Does that mean she did go to heaven ? I am simply pointing out some dross I see. And she would have had to have that purged off her soul on her journey to heaven. She believed in Christ but she was not a precious gem . Gems have no dross, gold and silver can. That means she did not fully understand what she was even saying. Was it intentional , no but imperfect yes! Say what you want she made distinctions between Graces and gifts. "Neither graces" and "Nor gifts granted" . And you are making no distinction between grace and gifts . Graces are simply many different levels of Grace all is grace , Grace is grace no matter how you turn it. Spiritual gifts are adornments which means are visible to those outside of the temple in edifications because they benefit another in some way. Grace is fortification and fortification gets stronger and stronger through need.Hence, graces. Prove that wrong.

"Paul uses two expressions Grace and Gifts, placed in the same close connection (see Romans 12:6; 1 Peter 4:10), "grace" (χάρις) and "gift"— not δῶρον or its cognate words (which might include every natural blessing common to heathen and Christian), but χάρισμα, the spiritual blessing connected with and flowing from God's "grace." Note that —

I. BOTH ARE CHARACTERISTIC OF THE GOSPEL DISPENSATION.

1. True, "grace" is mentioned in the Old Testament, and God is proclaimed to be "gracious," but this rarely. It is in the New Testament that we have complete revelation of this, and first have the frequent phrase "the grace of God."

2. And this because "grace... came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17; Titus 2:11). So in the text. God's fullest, freest favour to a sinful world, made possible by the sacrifice of Christ, made manifest by His life and ministry, and made over to His disciples as an abiding possession in the outpouring of the Spirit.

3. The "gifts" of God are thus —

(1) The heritage of the Christian Church, which is the special sphere of the Holy Spirit's operations (2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:22).

(2) Distributed to believers by Him as being God (chap. 1 Corinthians 12:4, 11).

(3) The outcome of the Divine grace of our Christian calling (Romans 12:6), and argue the possession of that grace (1 Peter 4:10).

II. BOTH ARE TO BE USED BY US.

1. "Grace" looks chiefly to the side of personal sanctification.

MY INTERJECTION: (THE ALIGNING OF OUR WILLS TO GOD'S it is a process)

St. Paul beseeches his converts not to "receive the grace of God in vain" (2 Corinthians 6:1), shows how he himself had been changed from a chief of sinners "by the grace of God" (1 Corinthians 15:10), and thanks God that they had been partakers of the same blessing (text and 1 Corinthians 6:11).

Graces (Plural) are fortifications in (sanctity)-the state or quality of being holy, sacred, or saintly.Can not be aligned to Gods will without graces cannot remain holy by forgoing graces.

2. "Gifts" look chiefly to the side of Church edification. They are to be used for others (1 Peter 4:10). Some have more, and some less; some have one, and some others. In our text St. Paul mentions two, "utterance" (or perhaps the expounding of "doctrine" — λόγος) and "knowledge" of spiritual things. In chap. 12. he shows how this Church was "enriched" by an abundance (see vers. 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, 28).

3. As every truehearted Christian has received both grace/graces

MY INTERJECTION :graces simply means continued stages of growing with deeper levels of grace revealed )

and some spiritual gift or gifts, we should be careful to use both aright.

(1) To profit by all "means of grace."

(2) To essay some work in the Church.

4. The grace and gifts of God may be neglected or misused. Illustrate by the parable of the ten pounds for "grace," and of the ten talents for "gifts."

III. BOTH POINT FORWARD TO THE END SET BEFORE US.

1. Sanctification is in order to that "holiness without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14); to that being "like Him," that we may "see Him as He is" (1 John 3:2).

2. Christian work is not an end, but the means to an end, even preparedness for the second coming of Christ.

3. This second advent — and not death — is the one great end set forth in the New Testament as the goal of the Christian's hopes and efforts. So our text.Conclusion: Let this subject lead to —

1. Thankfulness for the grace of God manifest in the progress(graces) of His work amongst us.

2. Humility in the recognition of our spiritual gifts as from and of His grace alone.

3. Earnestness in the fulfilling our obligation of "ministering the same one to another."

4. Singleness of purpose in looking towards the end of God's work in us and by us — the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ".

stunnedbygrace · Nov 4, 2019

Grace means kindness and mercy. I breathe only because of His grace. I have food only because of His grace. I have met God only because of His grace. I receive many gifts from God and it is all because of His kindness and mercy. I guess I just don't understand why such a distinction should be made and everything must be sorted into two distinct piles marked "kindness" and "a gift through kindness..."

Deborah_ · Nov 4, 2019

But bear in mind that this quote is (presumably) from a mystic work, not a book of theology. It's a genre in which writers might well use a string of synonyms, as in poetry - for effect rather than for analysis.

What language did she write in? I'm guessing it wasn't English, in which case the translation may need to be taken into consideration.

Taken · Nov 4, 2019

CovenantPromise said:
"Neither graces , nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God. These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection. My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"
(Diary1107)

The reason I ask is because:

Ephesians 2:7-9
Alive with Christ
…7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.…

Now my beef is with Faustina this quote is wrong in so many ways. It is a contradiction not just to the Word but within itself. Whether put in plural as "graces" grace is grace. And of course you can be full of grace. This quote would even go against the "hail Mary" . It would seem however , Catholics do not see that.

How can one reconcile this statement to the Word?
After all , intimacy with God is solely by grace.Once in faith- we say YES to His will, it is Grace which keeps us in it! This quote basically says the opposite of Ephesians.
Paul is clear Grace is not from ourselves, but this quote seems to suggest just that. Any person's sanctity comes by Grace and by grace the gifts. And through gifts in grace it becomes more and more evident that God's presents is within the sanctified soul as one grows in his Christian life. In one( failed) swoop the quote denies Grace because perfection only comes by grace. Grace is what aligns our will to God.

"My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"

Sorry Faustina that is only accomplished through Grace, not from ourselves.

James 2:10
10Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Cannot wait to hear responses. God Bless!

Gifts from God, are OFFERED.
A person RECEIVING of Gods OFFERED Gifts; ARE Gifts "received" According to an "ORDER", (also called a "WAY").

OT men received offered gifts, according to Gods "WAY".
NT men were notified JESUS "is", "THE WAY".

The OFFERING of Gods Gifts are TO ALLL men. The RECEIVING of Gods Gifts are TO "SOME" (actually "FEW") men WHO "elect" to Follow the "WAY", that is required to "RECEIVE" Gods Gifts.

In brief, a man CANNOT be in STANDING "AGAINST" God "AND" be a Recipient of ALL of Gods Gifts.

God HAS "GIFTS" FOR, those who "ARE AGAINST" Him... (as Scripture teaches, God gives the GIFT of SALVATION, "TO" the "unsaved"...(while we ARE in active SIN)...
It is the GIVING of His GIFT of SALVATION, (ie the restoration of our souls), that BY and THROUGH His (way, order, GRACE), that our SOUL becomes MADE "restored", to what it was BEFORE it was MADE corrupted, being IN our Corrupt Body.

THE LAW, is reference TO Mosaic Law.
"IF" any man "AGREES" to BE "SUBJECT" TO Mosaic Law; Such a man is therefor "SUBJECT TO" the Whole of the LAW.

(It is the same concept of American LAW. If a man AGREES to Live in the US, he is Agreeing to be SUBJECT TO US Laws. If a man Agrees to Live in New York, he is Agreeing to be SUNJECT TO New York Laws, regardless of what the other States Laws nay be)

Mosaic Law was fulfilled, (BY Jesus). Once of the most important Laws in Mosaic Law, was Animal Sacrifice, which was to be performed ONLY In Jerusalem, IN the Temple. That has NOT been Possible to fulfill that LAW, for 2,000 years, but yet many Jews DO continue to Obey "Portions" of the Law...and James 2:10 reveals the fruitless effort.

Catholics and some Protestants teach...
The Lord Forgives a mans SIN...MAKES the man righteous....BUT THEN ALSO TEACHES, the MAN CONTINUES TO "COMMIT" SIN.

How does a Right-eous man Commit Sin?
^ Oxymoron.

A man IS "accounted" Right-eous.... BECAUSE the man Has whole HEARTLY given God the authority/permission/request TO MAKE THE MAN "WHOLE"...
His body of sin...DEAD...crucified with Christ
His sinful soul....RESTORED
His natural spirit (truth)...REBORN of Gods Seed.

In BRIEF...A MAN "MADE WHOLE", is a man WHO...wholly....body, soul, spirit...CAN NEVER AGAIN "STAND" (sin) "AGAINST GOD".

Such a man CAN NOT...
Lie to God
Cheat (Adultery) on God with "other" Gods
Steal (glory) from God
Stop "believing" IN God
Etc.

It is Gods Gifts, of Grace, of Offering, of Fulfilling, of Power... that Brings to A "WILLING" man, ALL of what Gods IS "WILLING" to Give a man ('WILLING" to Receive).

When God SAYS something, "IT IS DONE", whether or not a man "SEES" it.

When God proclaims That, should a man FOLLOW the (order) "WAY"... The man IS MADE "WHOLE"... it doesn't matter if a MAN has to WAIT TO "SEE IT". According to God...IT IS DONE! Gods Records ACCOUNT it is Done.

So what about a man who lies, who cheats, who commits adultery, etc.?

It "DEPENDS" on "WHO" the man is.
...a man of the twelve tribes? A Hebrew...
WOULD "according to Mosaic Law", be committing a SIN, "against" the Law. And according to the LAW, would then need to rectify his SIN.
...a man who is a Gentile, accepting of Christ the Lord Jesus, the Christ Messiah of God?...
WOULD "according to Scripture" be committing a TRESPASS (not SIN), against another man/woman (human), and ASK the other "human" for forgiveness, and rectify the trespass.

Catholics and Some Protestants, Teach men MADE WHOLE BY GOD, continue to SIN, and CALL poor 'BeHAVIORS" between men...A SIN

FOR ^^ THAT to be possible or Accurate...THE "MAKING" of a man "WHOLE" and "RIGHTEOUS....
BY Christ the Lord Jesus WOULD "BE A LIE".
"THE FULFILLING" of the LAW, BY Jesus, WOULD "BE A LIE".

The NEW Testament was written primarily TO Jews, BY Jews, FOR Jews....and Yes the NT was NeW NEWS TO Jews...and Yes Most Jews were Still subject to OT LAWS, that according to the OT LAW, men could SIN against men.
(ACCORDING TO THE LAW!)

When the Gentiles BEGAN hearing and listening to Jesus, (and his DIsciples) and Learning ABOUT God...THEY (Gentiles) DID NOT BECOME "Subject To" OT LAWS. They became "SUBJECT TO".......NOTHING.

They (Genties) could hear, listen, believe, quit believing, continue believing, believe some things and not others...or walk away to never again think about Jesus & God....

However a Gentile WHO, "Continued" to hear, and believe, and CHOSE to "COMMIT" (by Belief in their Heart). "TO" Jesus the Christ Messiah....THEY BECAME "MADE",
"SUBJECT TO" Christ Jesus...(NOT the LAW).

And those WHO CHOOSE to be "MADE" Subject TO Christ Jesus....ARE KEPT IN FAITH TO Christ Jesus....BY THE POWER OF GOD...
(WHO IS Christ ). And WHY they can NEVER AGAIN ... SIN AGAINST GOD...
Never Again, believe in others gods, lie to God, leave Him, etc.

Again...Gifts FROM GOD, come in an ORDER.
And WAY.
ORDER (mentioned over 100 times) and WAY (mentioned over 1,000 times) are Express in Scripture.

The Broad scope of Scripture is about A man establishing a Lasting Relationship WITH God, and HOW according to Gods WAY, A man Can accomplish establishing a Lasting Relationship WITH God (according to God) ... not according to men.

There is NO Scriptural teaching for a man to BELIEVE IN MEN.

Point being;
1) SIN is "AGAINST" mosaic Law.
2) SIN is "AGAINST" God of "DISBELIEF" in God.

A man "UNDER" Mosaic LAW, "CAN" forgive a "SIN" AGAINST the man.

A man "NOT UNDER" Mosaic LAW, CAN NOT SIN AGAINST MEN.

A man "NOT UNDER" Mosaic LAW, WHO "IS" "UNDER GRACE", CAN NOT COMMIT SIN AGAINST GOD....AND CAN NOT COMMIT SIN AGAINST MEN.

A man "UNDER GRACE", CAN and DOES "TRESPASS AGAINST MEN"...and Scripture itself TEACHES;
1) HOW TO AVOID trespassing AGAINST men
2) a man WHO HAS Trespassed AGAINST a man;
3) THE "WAY" to rectify his Trespass.

A man "UNDER GRACE", who has been "Trespassed AGAINST"...the Scripture itself TEACHES;
1) to "FORGIVE" their "Trespass"
2) and SO ALSO will the Lord "FORGIVE your own Trespasses".

POINT;
I disagree with Fautina, since he expressed ...
gifts GRANTED as insignificant.

Without a GIFT BEING GRANTED...he would thus have NOT received the Gift....and thus would NOT have a perfect union with God.

Basically, Fautina....minimized the ORDER/WAY making it insignificant as to HOW "his perfect union" was able to be Established.

Glory to God,
Taken

A_Man · Nov 8, 2019

CovenantPromise said:
"Neither graces , nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God. These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection. My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God"
(Diary1107)

This does not look Biblical to me. How am I going to have a union of my will with the Father's will without his grace? Paul told the Philippians that God works in them to will and to do according to His pleasure. How is that going to happen without God's grace? Faith is certainly needed for our perfection, and that is also a gift from God.

Maybe she makes a distinction between a spirit and a soul, but the latter part of the first sentence does not seem to support that.

This is her diary entry or did she claim Mary told her this?

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