Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

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CovenantPromise

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Hi there,

Don't forget the record in Acts 16:25-34, which records the incident in which Paul's jailer asked Paul, 'what must I do to be saved?' (Acts 16:30). Paul's reply is given in verse 31, 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved'. Paul says nothing of baptism in order to be saved. The jailer was baptised after his statement of faith in Christ, but that does not change the fact that Paul does not mention baptism as a requirement of salvation.

Salvation is the result of believing in Christ, i.e., Who He is, the Son of God, not of water baptism. The message of salvation is given in John 1:16.

'For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son
that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life'

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
If one says it they all said it they are of one mind. Obviously the jailer got the message and was baptized. Really?
 

CharismaticLady

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BINGO, baptism Pardon, our sins, JESUS/the Gospel, Saves us from our sins. for, Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" so Baptism takes care of past sins. Hebrews 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." and John's baptism is for the remission of sins that sre past. AND THOSE SINS COMMITTED IN CHRIST ARE FORGIVEN, supportive scripture, 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

PICJAG.

1 John 1:9 is for the forgiveness of our PAST SINS. Why do you think we are to commit sins IN CHRIST?
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Matthew 3:11. "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me...........will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.......' However you look at this, it is two baptisms, not one. You may say that one of these baptisms is now obsolete, but if this is so it is surely more likely to be that of John rather than that of the Lord Jesus?

By the time Paul penned his Ephesian epistle there was "one baptism" in effect which is Christ's human administered water baptism of the great commission. Therefore none of the 3 baptisms in Mtt 3:11 are in effect now now.


Steve Owen said:
Err......no.
Matthew 28:17-20. "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you......."
The verb in this sentence is 'make disciples.' Everything else is participles. So the command is that as we go, we make disciples and then baptize them. Now since Romans 8:9 states that 'if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His,' anyone who is made a disciple must be born again and therefore baptized in the Holy Spirit. It is such people who are to be baptized in water in the name of the Triune God, and then taught the doctrines of the Christian Faith.

You are correct. There is only one faith. It is to turn from ones sins and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation (cf. Mark 1:15). But that one true faith is to repent, believe on Christ for salvation and then to be baptized in water. There is certainly something strange if someone, having trusted in the Lord Jesus as Lord and Saviour, will not follow His simple ordinance to be baptized in water, but that does not change the fact that salvation is by grace through faith, and that grace includes being born from above.

1 Corinthians 1:17 is in the Bible, whether you like it or not. Certainly we are to baptize, but making disciples is the primary command. To baptize someone who is not a disciple is unfortunate, but sometimes happens. To do so knowingly is a grievous sin which has led to all sorts of problems within the churches. For a disciple not to be baptized is certainly wrong, but it is something that can be repented of and put right at any time.

To say that these verses 'prove' the necessity of water baptism for salvation is a massive stretch.

In Matthew's account of the great commission, baptism is the way disciples are made.
The participle (“baptizing”) explains “the manner in which the given action [”make disciples"] was performed" (Green, p. 332). Green, Samuel G. (1907), Handbook to the Grammar of the Greek Testament (London: Religious Tract Society).

There is no such thing found in the NT gospel as unbaptized disciples/christians.



1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

This verse contains a figure of speech call an ellipsis or a "not -but" statement where emphasis is put on one thing (preaching) over another (baptism) but not the the exclusion of either. To have the verse literally say Paul is to not baptize creates obvious contradictions in that Paul DID baptize (1 Corinthians 1:14-16) and Paul did not sin/transgress 1 Cor 1:17 by baptizing. Paul would not be told not to baptize in 1 Cor 1:17 and yet commanded to baptize in the great commission. Nor would Paul contradict himself in teaching the necessity of water baptism (1 Corinthians 1:12-13) but then not baptize. The Bible does not contradict itself.


A couple examples of ellipsis:

1 Peter 3:3-4 "Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price."

Peter is not literally forbidding wives to plait their hair or wearing jewelry or putting on clothing but is telling wives to put more emphasis on the inward spiritual adornment over the outer physical adornment. In similar manner Paul is not saying he was forbidden to baptize others but put more emphasis on preaching over baptizing but not to the total exclusion of baptizing.

John 6:27 "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

Jesus is not literally saying to not work for the physical food you eat, such contradicts 2 Thessalonians 3:12....if any would not work, neither should he eat. Jesus is saying to put more emphasis on working for the spiritual food over the physical food but not to the total exclusion of working for the physical food.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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This is incorrect. There are at least three baptisms, and Paul mentions *baptisms* (plural) in Hebrews 6:2: Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
1. Baptism WITH the Holy Spirit
2. Baptism BY the Holy Spirit
3. Baptism by immersion in water
4. Baptism with fire (metaphorical for intense suffering)

Ephesians 4:5 "one baptism" does not contradict Hebrews 6:2 for the Bible does not contradict itself.

Hebrews 6:1-2 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

It is my opinion that Paul taught the basic elements of Christianity to these Hebrew converts from the OT. Acts of the Apostles 17:2 "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures," with "scriptures" referring the the OT. Back in the first century at the time of Paul, all the NT letters had not yet been written so they had no NT Bible as we do today with all the letters written and collated into one book, the Bible.

In Hebrews 5:12 Paul speaks about the " first principles of the oracles of God". In Romans 3:2; Acts 7:38 "oracles" refers to the OT.

There are some basic fundamentals found in both the OT and NT and from Heb 6:1-2 those fundamentals are;
-repentance (Ezekiel 14:6 - Acts 26:20)
-faith (Deuteronomy 30:10; Eph 2:8)
-baptism ("washings" in some translations) (Exodus 29:4 - Acts 8:38)
-laying on of hands (Numbers 8:10 - Acts 13:3)
-resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment (Daniel 12:2)

In the OT, the Priests had to wash themselves in a laver of water before entering the holy place, (Exodus 30:17-21). The OT, having a shadow of things to come (Hebrews 10:1), where in the NT one must have his sins cleansed by the blood of Christ in a laver of water (baptistry) before entering the church. Hence Paul taught the elementary, rudiments of the NT gospel from the OT to these Hebrews but they had not grown beyond these basic fundamentals.
 

rockytopva

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The first unbaptized Christian

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. - Luke 23
 

rockytopva

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The second recorded unbaptized Christian...

Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. - Acts 16:31

The requirements to become a Christian...
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10:8-10

And Paul was no big fan of Baptism....

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. - 1 Corinthians 1:17
 

Mungo

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One of most specific statements in the NT that baptism with water saves us is given in 1 Pet 3:20-21 where Peter writes, referring to Noah and his family at the time of the flood:
"…eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you…" (RSV)
"…eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also…" (NIV)
"….eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.." (NAB)
"…eight souls were saved by water.The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us…" (KJV)

Unless you are in denial of scripture this clearly states that baptism - with water - saves us.

Some like @Nondenom40 try to dodge round this by stating:
Nothing confusing here.
A. The water in Noah's flood didn't save anyone. It killed everyone in it.
B. The ark saved all those inside. A type of Christ..
C. ...not as a removal of dirt from the body...i.e. water.
D. ...an appeal to God for a good conscience..i.e. your public declaration for Jesus at your water baptism which happens AFTER you are saved.
But this misses the whole point of Peters comparison between the flood and baptism.Let's take A & B first..
What he says is true but not the point. Peter clearly says those in the Ark were saved by water.

Peter was not saying they were saved from water but through water (RSV, NIV, NAB, HCSB) or by water (KJV).
The word translated in most Bible as through is Strong 1223 "A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through.....".
Water is the channel by which they were saved, just as baptism is the channel by which we are saved in baptism

The salvation that Peter is referring to is not the salvation from the flood.
In Gen 6, immediately before God tells Noah to build the Ark he explains what he is doing:
Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth". (Gen 6:11-13)

The water (the flood) destroyed the world with all it’s sin and corruption. It was this sin and corruption that that those in the Ark were saved from, by means of water.

And as in other examples in the OT the pre-figuring was physical, in the NT the anti-type (baptism) is spiritual. In baptism our sins are forgiven, we are spiritually cleansed and we are made new, like being born again..
"Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come." (2Cor 5:17).

Nondenom40 continues
C. ...not as a removal of dirt from the body...i.e. water.
D. ...an appeal to God for a good conscience..

That is why Peter continues: in 1Pet 3:21 "not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

Peter is emphasising that baptism has spiritual not physical results.
It's not an outer cleansing (removal of dirt from the body) but a spiritual cleansing (an appeal to God for a clear conscience).

It is this same Peter that said at Pentecost: "Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." (Acts 2:38)

We also read
"Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away, calling upon his name." (Acts 22:16).

This spiritual cleansing s also echoed in Paul's letter to Titus.
"…he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit (Ti 3:5- NAB).

Note that most translation say something like washing of regeneration but that misses something important. The word translated as washing is loutron (G3607) which is a noun not a verb.

G3067 loutron - From G3068; a bath, that is, (figuratively) baptism:—washing.

There is one other place in the NT where the Greek loutron is used - Eph 5:25-26, where Jesus is comparing husband and wife to Christ and the Church
"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath [loutron] of water with the word" (NAB). Again other translation use washing.

But loutron is important. It wasn't just any bath but a bridal bath. The bath a bride took on the morning before her wedding.

"The bride’s ritual bath took place on the morning of the wedding ceremony itself. The bathing ritual was a pivotal coming-of-age rite for the young bride. Indeed, if a girl died before being married, she would undergo this ritual of bathing after herdeath. The loutrophoros was used in this ritual ceremony to carry water. Vase-paintings seem to suggest that the groom did not bathe or that his bath was less important than the bride’s."
From The Nuptial Ceremony of Ancient Greece and the Articulation of Male Control Through Ritual by Casey Mason, Macalester College.

Christians are the bride of Christ (Eph 5:25-26). So in Titus 3:5 Paul make bridal imagery of the loutron cleansing us spiritually to become ready for out nuptials with Christ.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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The first unbaptized Christian

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. - Luke 23

Errors with the "thief argument"

1) the thief argument is based on an ASSUMPTION that the thief had never been baptized. No verse definitively states the thief had never been baptized. As far as we know he could have been of those in Mark 1:4-5 that was baptized and later fell into a life of crime.

2) Hebrews 9:16-17 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." Christ is the testator of the NT therefore there must be the death of the Testator before the NT came into effect. Yet when Christ promised the thief he would be in paradise both were alive living under the OT law of Moses. Therefore the thief cannot be an example of NT gospel salvation.

--Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

NT belief requires one believe that God "hath raised" (past tense) Christ from the dead. Again, at the time Christ promised the thief would be in paradise Christ had not died much less been raised from the dead hence Rom 10:9 was not a requirement for the thief to be saved for he was under the OT law

--Romans 6:3-5 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

The NT requires one be baptized into the death of Christ before one walks in newness of life (born again). Again, at the time Christ promised the thief would be in paradise Christ had not died much less been raised from the dead therefore Rom 6:3-5 was not required of those under the OT law as the thief.

3) Matthew 9:6 "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house."

When Christ was on earth in the flesh 2000 years ago He had the power-authority to forgive sins of those whom He thought was deserving as the thief. Yet Christ left earth some 2000 years ago and is not personally going around in the flesh today forgiving people of their sin as He did with the thief. So no one can claim to be saved in the same manner at the thief. When Christ left earth some 2000 years ago He left behind His NT gospel as His authority on earth and it teaches for one to be saved he mist believe (John 8:24) repent (Luke 13:3) confess (Matthew 10:32-33) be baptized (Mark 16:16) and live faithfully unto death (Revelation 2:10).
 
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101G

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1 John 1:9 is for the forgiveness of our PAST SINS. Why do you think we are to commit sins IN CHRIST?
GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply. let me explain myself. understand, 1 John 1:9 is for christians, YES christian who sin while in Christ Jesus. listen, 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (JOHN HERE IS SPEAKING OF CHRISTIANS)
1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT VERSE AGAIN, (yes, we that are in Christ Jesus still do sin because we're still are in a body of flesh, that is sinful), NOTICE jOHN USE THE WORD "US", WHICH INCLUDE HIMSELF. listen, next verse,
1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
THIS IS THE REASON FOR VERSE 9, NOTICE THE "WE" NOW THE "OUR". "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". the "US" and the "OUR" here in this verse is "US" christians, so don't deceive yourself ok, untill Jesus return, then one can claim victory, hence the reason why we have a .... HELPER with us now, to help us. John here is speaking to CHRISTIAN, save folk. and the reason why they are save because of the cleasning. ye're cleal through the word.

also, please note, God never require a sinner to confess his or her sins in order to be saved, (decleared righteous, Justified), no, God require a sinner to confess his Son"JESUS" in order to be save. that's why Baptism is so important. it PARDON, our sins that are PAST, or in our past LIFE before we came to Christ, so that we may be save/delieverd by calling on his name, Joel 2:32. God takes care of our PAST LIFE for us, hence his, his, his, God righteousness toward us. scripture, Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" BINGO THERE IT IS, HIS RIGHTIOUSNESS.
understand CharismaticLady, that term "justified" in verse 24 simply means "declared righteous", save people are already RIGHTEOUS, they are not trying to be Rightious, they are Rightious, so this is speaking of "SINNERS". sinners who want to to get Rightious. so, Romans 3:24 & 25 are speaking of sinners coming to christ. 1 John 1:9 are speaking of christians that are in christ.

understand, by our Lord dying on the cross, no sinner need not confess their sins to be made right with God, but only confess JESUS, his Son. for the term remission means "FORGIVNESS" but FORGIVNESS of what? "SINS THAT ARE PAST. baptism do this for us, by washing away our sins that "ARE PAST", and being obedient by the fath of God ordinance which is his command to be baptize. supportive scripture, Acts 22:14-16 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth." 15 "For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard." 16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord

understand this CharismaticLady, God require "Forgivness" by Cleansing, ...... of the SAINTS, our by the confession of sins (1 John 1:9). SINNERS, their sins by the Confession of JESUS, and being Baptized.

please note this. why is there a cleansing? when something is dirty it needs cleasning. coming to God as a sinner, one needs a clesening, this is why baptism is given, not of the filth of the outer man NO, listen, 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:". when one is Pardon/forgiven of their sins then they can come to God who saves them in Christ Jesus.

Water Baptism is for the "REMISSION"/Pardon/Removal of Sins that are Past, better known as God "MERCY". his "GRACE" is our Confession, (while in christ) of our sins.
Hope this helped.

PICJAG.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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The second recorded unbaptized Christian...

Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. - Acts 16:31

The requirements to become a Christian...
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10:8-10

And Paul was no big fan of Baptism....

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. - 1 Corinthians 1:17

In the context of Acts 16 the jailer was told to "believe" he was NOT told to "believe only". There is a night and day difference between NT belief and man made idea of belief only.

When the jailer was commanded to believe in verse 31 he had not yet been told what to believe. He was told in verse 32 the word of the Lord and he could not believe until he was told what to believe for...faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17).

After being told what to believe we find in Acts 16:34 it says "And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God." The participle phrase "having believed" sums all the jailer had just done which includes repentance (washing theri stripes) and baptism of verse 33. Here "believed" is a synecdoche (ap part fro he whole) where believed INCLUDES repentance and baptism. Again, he was NOT to believe only for all the belief only in the world will never save an impenitent person lost in his unremitted sins.

Same thing in Acts 2:
verse 41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:...."
verse 44 "And all that believed were together,...."

Who were the ones that "believed" in v44? The ones that rejected Peter's words and rejected baptism? No. BUt the ones who "believed" in v44 were the one who accepted Peter's gospel words and were baptized. Again, another case where "believed" is used as a synecdoche and it includes baptism. This means "believeth" in verses as John 3:16 are also used as a synecdoche where "believe" includes baptism.

1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us....."
Peter here did NOT say "baptism alone" now saves us no more than Acts 16:31 or John 3:16 says "belief alone" saves. Peter was using "baptism" as a synecdoche where it includes believing for an unbelieving person will not, cannot be baptized, (Mark 16:16).


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Below is a repost of what I posted earlier in this thread (post #263) about 1 Cor 1:17---

1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

This verse contains a figure of speech call an ellipsis or a "not -but" statement where emphasis is put on one thing (preaching) over another (baptism) but not the the exclusion of either.

To have the verse literally say Paul is to not baptize creates obvious contradictions in that Paul DID baptize (1 Corinthians 1:14-16) and Paul did not sin/transgress 1 Cor 1:17 by baptizing. Paul would not be told not to baptize in 1 Cor 1:17 and yet commanded to baptize in the great commission. Nor would Paul contradict himself in teaching the necessity of water baptism (1 Corinthians 1:12-13) but then not baptize. The Bible does not contradict itself.


A couple examples of ellipsis:

1 Peter 3:3-4 "Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price."

Peter is not literally forbidding wives to plait their hair or wearing jewelry or putting on clothing but is telling wives to put more emphasis on the inward spiritual adornment over the outer physical adornment. In similar manner Paul is not saying he was forbidden to baptize others but put more emphasis on preaching over baptizing but not to the total exclusion of baptizing.

John 6:27 "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

Jesus is not literally saying to not work for the physical food you eat, such contradicts 2 Thessalonians 3:12....if any would not work, neither should he eat. Jesus is saying to put more emphasis on working for the spiritual food over the physical food but not to the total exclusion of working for the physical food.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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As far as the context of 1 Corinthians chapter 1, Paul uses the necessity of baptism to heal the division at Corinth. Instead of all those Corinthians being "of Christ" they were divided, Paul says "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.", 1 Corinthians 1:12.

In order to heal this division and get them all to be "of Christ" as they should, Paul asks a rhetorical question in verse 13 in the negative: "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Verse 13 stated in the positive, Paul is saying "Christ is not divided! Christ was crucified for you You were baptized in the name of Christ."

Paul's point being this; if you are to be "of" some one then two things must be true of that some one. That some one must be:
1) crucified for you
2) you must be baptized in that someone's name

Since these two things are only true of Christ, then no man can be "of Paul" or "of Apollos" or "of Cephas" or of any other man. Therefore if we are to be "of Christ" then both of these things must be true.....not just one but BOTH.


Was Christ crucified for us? Yes, #1 above is true for Hebrews 2:9 says "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

Since #1 is true, then why isn't every man saved? For every man has not been baptized in the name of Christ per necessity #2 above. Baptism "in the name of Christ" is the human administered water baptism of the great commission per Acts of the Apostles 10:47-48; Acts of the Apostles 2:38.

The phrase "in the name of" is a legal term. If I buy a new car, then I take the title and paper work to the local clerk and have the car registered "in the name of" Ernest T Bass showing I am the owner. Those not baptize have not come into the ownership of Christ, are not "of Christ" per verse 13. Again, BOTH #1 and #2 must be true, not just #1.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Eph 2:8--------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1 Pet 3:21-----baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, and the Bible does not contradict itself, then the conclusion is NT faith INCLUDES baptism and is dead without it.
 

CharismaticLady

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GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply. let me explain myself. understand, 1 John 1:9 is for christians, YES christian who sin while in Christ Jesus. listen, 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (JOHN HERE IS SPEAKING OF CHRISTIANS)
1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT VERSE AGAIN, (yes, we that are in Christ Jesus still do sin because we're still are in a body of flesh, that is sinful), NOTICE jOHN USE THE WORD "US", WHICH INCLUDE HIMSELF. listen, next verse,
1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
THIS IS THE REASON FOR VERSE 9, NOTICE THE "WE" NOW THE "OUR". "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". the "US" and the "OUR" here in this verse is "US" christians, so don't deceive yourself ok, untill Jesus return, then one can claim victory, hence the reason why we have a .... HELPER with us now, to help us. John here is speaking to CHRISTIAN, save folk. and the reason why they are save because of the cleasning. ye're cleal through the word.

also, please note, God never require a sinner to confess his or her sins in order to be saved, (decleared righteous, Justified), no, God require a sinner to confess his Son"JESUS" in order to be save. that's why Baptism is so important. it PARDON, our sins that are PAST, or in our past LIFE before we came to Christ, so that we may be save/delieverd by calling on his name, Joel 2:32. God takes care of our PAST LIFE for us, hence his, his, his, God righteousness toward us. scripture, Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" BINGO THERE IT IS, HIS RIGHTIOUSNESS.
understand CharismaticLady, that term "justified" in verse 24 simply means "declared righteous", save people are already RIGHTEOUS, they are not trying to be Rightious, they are Rightious, so this is speaking of "SINNERS". sinners who want to to get Rightious. so, Romans 3:24 & 25 are speaking of sinners coming to christ. 1 John 1:9 are speaking of christians that are in christ.

understand, by our Lord dying on the cross, no sinner need not confess their sins to be made right with God, but only confess JESUS, his Son. for the term remission means "FORGIVNESS" but FORGIVNESS of what? "SINS THAT ARE PAST. baptism do this for us, by washing away our sins that "ARE PAST", and being obedient by the fath of God ordinance which is his command to be baptize. supportive scripture, Acts 22:14-16 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth." 15 "For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard." 16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord

understand this CharismaticLady, God require "Forgivness" by Cleansing, ...... of the SAINTS, our by the confession of sins (1 John 1:9). SINNERS, their sins by the Confession of JESUS, and being Baptized.

please note this. why is there a cleansing? when something is dirty it needs cleasning. coming to God as a sinner, one needs a clesening, this is why baptism is given, not of the filth of the outer man NO, listen, 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:". when one is Pardon/forgiven of their sins then they can come to God who saves them in Christ Jesus.

Water Baptism is for the "REMISSION"/Pardon/Removal of Sins that are Past, better known as God "MERCY". his "GRACE" is our Confession, (while in christ) of our sins.
Hope this helped.

PICJAG.

I believe you are as sincere as any of the millions who believe 1 John 1 says exactly as you think it does, that every word not only is to Christians, which it is as a teaching and reflection, but also is about Christians. But it doesn't and isn't. We all need to examine ourselves to see if we are of Christ. If we just know of Christ and think you can use Him as your ticket to heaven by your knowledge, but don't follow Him and abide in Him, but would rather walk in darkness, your ticket is invalid. He must be inside you, and He doesn't sin.

This is why Jesus said we MUST be born again. The person you describe does not have a new nature; they are still sinners with their old carnal nature.
 

101G

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I believe you are as sincere as any of the millions who believe 1 John 1 says exactly as you think it does, that every word not only is to Christians, which it is as a teaching and reflection, but also is about Christians. But it doesn't and isn't. We all need to examine ourselves to see if we are of Christ. If we just know of Christ and think you can use Him as your ticket to heaven by your knowledge, but don't follow Him and abide in Him, but would rather walk in darkness, your ticket is invalid. He must be inside you, and He doesn't sin.

This is why Jesus said we MUST be born again. The person you describe does not have a new nature; they are still sinners with their old carnal nature.
first thanks for the reply, second, if all christian didn't sin or have faults, there would be no need for any of the apostles epistles to be written. we're to be perfect. but just by being born again don't mean you're flawless or with out spot or wrankle. anyone born again is not the perfect Christian ... yet. no baby born comes walking straight out of it's mother womb.
hence the reason why we have the five fold ministeries.
Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"
Ephesians 4:12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"
Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"
Ephesians 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"
Ephesians 4:15 "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:"
Now for those who came out from the world, and was borm perfect, well GOOD for you, but for me and the other rest, God is still working on us, who is our Author and finisher of our Faith. for without Faith we cannot please him.

so for all those who are "PERFECT" already, again fine, but I'm like the apostle, Philippians 3:12 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."
Philippians 3:13 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,"
Philippians 3:14 "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
so, I'm pressing toward the same mark.

PICJAG.
 
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charity

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You have to take ALL scripture into account not just cherry pick one verse.

Paul writes:
"Or are you unaware that we who were baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection."
(Rom 6:3-4)

“..he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)

"You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions;" (Col 2:11-13)

"For through faith you are all children of God in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendant, heirs according to the promise." (Gal 3:26-27)

Do you think those verses have nothing to do with salvation?

* The verses you have quoted make no mention of water baptism @Mungo.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

CharismaticLady

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first thanks for the reply, second, if all christian didn't sin or have faults, there would be no need for any of the apostles epistles to be written. we're to be perfect. but just by being born again don't mean you're flawless or with out spot or wrankle. anyone born again is not the perfect Christian ... yet. no baby born comes walking straight out of it's mother womb.
hence the reason why we have the five fold ministeries.
Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"
Ephesians 4:12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"
Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"
Ephesians 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"
Ephesians 4:15 "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:"
Now for those who came out from the world, and was borm perfect, well GOOD for you, but for me and the other rest, God is still working on us, who is our Author and finisher of our Faith. for without Faith we cannot please him.

so for all those who are "PERFECT" already, again fine, but I'm like the apostle, Philippians 3:12 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."
Philippians 3:13 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,"
Philippians 3:14 "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
so, I'm pressing toward the same mark.

PICJAG.

Pressing toward to mark is glorification, not sanctification. We were cleansed of all sin when we truly repented of our weakness and cried out to God. He cleanses us of our past sin, and sets us apart unto good work, but then gives us the power through the baptism of the Holy Spirit to no longer commit sins of lawlessness. We are born again! We do not have the old carnal nature, but are now partakers of the DIVINE NATURE of God. We are no longer slaves to sin unto death, but are now children of God. John 8:34-36 and 2 Peter 1

Steps to glorification:
add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

Read that in context: 2 Peter 1

1 John 3:1-9
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
 
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CovenantPromise

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* I don't understand what you are trying to say, @CovenantPromise.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
All are in agreement among the apostles concerning the necessity of water baptism. They are of one mind and that being -they have the mind of Christ. For there to be any debate concerning what is pretty clear throughout the scriptures is redundant . I blame the need for the redundancy on a certain type. Those who are of the business of putting scripture against scripture and are incapable of seeing the one mindedness of the epistles and gospels. The "REALLY?" is because of the constant rejection of the obvious by that certain type.
God Bless!
 

Philip James

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Christians are the bride of Christ (Eph 5:25-26). So in Titus 3:5 Paul make bridal imagery of the loutron cleansing us spiritually to become ready for out nuptials with Christ.

Hello Mungo,

Indeed!

From the catechism:

1617 The entire Christian life bears the mark of the spousal love of Christ and the Church. Already Baptism, the entry into the People of God, is a nuptial mystery; it is so to speak the nuptial bath111 which precedes the wedding feast, the Eucharist.

Peace be with you!