That is one of the most stupid statements I have ever heard. You say, "Because ones obedience will not be perfect, therefore one is an unprofitable servant and in need of grace." What a severity of law. I require your obedience. But, your obedience is not enough because I don't even like that.
It is simple to understand for those that have a correct understanding of the Bible:
---God requires one to be without sin, blameless and without spot (2 Peter 3:14) in order for one to be saved.
---Since man's obedience will not be perfect ("
all have sinned" Romans 5:12) then man will not be sinless and without spot and blame.
---Therefore man cannot save himself by being sinless through perfect obedience
therefore man is need of grace.
---Those who strive (Luke 13:24) to be obedient to God and repent for those times when they are not perfectly obedient are the ones who receive grace.
God has
NEVER required man to be perfect and flawless to be save but God has required an obedient faith to be saved. David nor Abraham were perfectly sinless, so how would they be saved? By an
obedient faith which includes repentance of sins. So simple to understand. I understand this does not fit Luther's heresy of faith only, but that is not my problem.
Luke 17:10 "
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
It is man's duty to obey God (also Ecclesiastes 12:13). Those that do not obey God are derelict in doing what is their duty. So why after one has
'done all those things that are commanded you" still be unprofitable? Because he will not be perfect in doing all those things commanded him and therefore in need of grace.
Stranger said:
And, don't think (Luke 17:10) supports your idiotic statement. It does not. My point is that Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord because he needed grace. Because he didn't measure up. He found grace before he began building the Ark. (Gen. 6:8, 7:1) Your point is that Noah found grace because he was obedient. If you're obedient, (Luke 17:10) says you did what was expected. Thus nothing more need be expected. No grace needed.
Why did Noah need God's grace? Because Noah, like all other men, sinned (Romans 3:23) and therefore was not perfect. not spotless, not blameless making him in need of grace. Those men who do obey God are the ones who receive grace, mercy and forgiveness of sins.
Luke 1:6 "
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."
Why was John's parents "blameless" before the Lord? Because they were perfectly and flawlessly sinless? No! Because they were righteous and obeyed God's commands and ordinances. Even though they obeyed God's commands they were not perfect in their obedience. Their obedience included repentance and offering appropriate OT sacrifices for their sins and God forgave them leaving them blameless before God.
Stranger said:
If your obedient to God, then grace is not necessary. If grace is 'conditional' then it is not free. If Noah obeyed God and built the Ark, why is his obedience not perfect? Did he build the Ark or not? You mix law and grace so much you can't tell the difference.
But whose obedience will be perfectly sinless? Other than Christ, NO ONE. Leaving man in need of grace. Man not being perfectly sinless separates man from God where sin leaves a gap between God and man. Grace is needed to bridge that gap. Those who strive to obey God's will will find that bridge to God. Those that do not strive to obey God will not find that bridge
Stanger said:
(Romans 4:4-5) says God justifies the ungodly. And, He does it by faith only. No conditions. Faith is not law. Faith is all that is required. But you don't believe that. You want their faith and then they must adhere to the law. That is not grace. That is law. Grace with conditions. What an oxymoronic statement that is.
Romans 4:4-5 does not say God justifies the ungodly unconditionally nor does Romans 4:5 contradict Exodus 23:7 that says God will not justify wicked/ungodly. Further proof of this is that you cannot produce one single example from the Bible of God
unconditionally justifying an impenitent, disobedient, rebellious reprobate. For justification is CONDITONAL upon one first having an
obedient faith:
Romans 5:1--------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
Romans 6:17-18------obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>justified/free from sin
James 2:24--------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
Since there is just one way to be justified, no alternatives, then NT faith must be an obedient work in obeying God's will.
Faith only does not justify (James 2:24) for it is dead for it lacks obedient to the will of God.
Stranger said:
Concerning (Rom. 6:16): You are mistaken. Condemnation is not the issue here. Who you serve and the results of your slavery is. Recognize Paul is speaking to believers here. Our old man is dead that the body of sin might be destroyed. That we should not serve sin. (6:6) It says 'might be destroyed' because that is a process. It doesn't say 'might be made to obey'. The body of sin never obeys. At times the believer yields his members to sin. At times he yields himself to God. To whomever he yields, slavery is the result.
Note that in (Rom. 6:13) in yielding to unrighteousness, the believer yields his members only. But he doesn't yield 'himself'. For 'himself' belongs to God. So that the opposite admonishment is for the believer to yield himself to God, and then his members as instruments of righteousness. It is a vicious fight within the believer that the body of sin might be destroyed. Paul experienced it. (Rom. 7:15). Of course most believers today will deny it. They are too good. Too deserving. Too obedient.
Romans 6:16 exposes Luther's error of faith only. Paul clearly shows that we each are serving either on of two masters, either:
1) "sin unto death" which is condemnation
or
2) "obedience unto righteousness" which is salvation
What is "sin unto death" if it is not eternal condemnation? The problem some have with this verse is simple to see......those who have allowed themselves to follow the error of Luther's faith only cannot, will not say which master they serve for they are put between a hard place and a rock.. Of course they will not say they are serving sin unto death. Yet at the same time, Luther's faith only prevents them from saying they serve "obedience unto righteousness". They try and find ways to get around this tough verse for them as you are trying to do yourself.
Those in Rome were serving "
obedience unto righteousness" for we are told they had
"obeyed from the heart" then were
freed from sin/justified, (Romans 6:17-18).
Again, note the order of events as Paul puts them:
---were "servants of sin" serving sin unto death
---but they "obeyed from the heart" turned to serve obedience unto righteousness
---then they were freed from sin
Paul puts obedience BEFORE justification as it is in v16 obedience UNTO righteousness as obedience lead them to being freed from sin/justified. Faith onlyist try and conform this passage in Rom 6 to say 'obedience
BECAUSE one is already righteous' or 'obedience
BECAUSE one already is justified'. Faith only says the exact opposite of what Paul said.
Stranger said:
If Noah had to build the boat to remain saved, then he was never saved by grace in the first place. That is not grace. That is law.
Stranger
Your statment above is not supported by the text.
Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,
prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."
--The part in red is God's grace. God did not owe it to Noah to save his house.
--The part in blue is the condition God required of Naoh to recieve the grace in red.
No blue part then there would have been no red part to happen. Had Noah rebelled and disobeyed in not building the ark then he would not have received grace in the form of the saving of his house. Hence obedience to God's command or law (or whatever you care to call it) to
build the ark was necessary to
receive the grace. It is obvious that obedience and grace go hand in hand and Luther could not have been more wrong with his faith only philosophy.