Re: Hebrew Idioms and 2 Peter 3:8
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(cedarhart;67263)
Quote:Originally Posted by Jordan See, that proves my point of this statement I said a while back ago. We have AusDisciple, shown you numerous scriptures and you ignore them all.It is impossible for men to claim their own interpretations came from Satan.But you are free to believe however and whatever you want. It's YOUR free will. From Ausdisciples: Jordan, drop it already!!My belief is NOT Satanic simply because it disagrees with a few of you here!! I pray to our Lord that you become a little more open minded than that with time. This topic should have a simple discussion. As with all discussions, there can be an element of "taking something too far". It is one thing to have an open mind to ideas and concepts but one needs to know where to draw the line and back off. Splitting hairs only invites distress and tension. When a discussion has run its course, let it go. Rehashing posts over and over with the same content is non-productive. It is a mature Christian that knows when the point has been made and pushing an idea on someone loses them completely.Likewise, when a point has been shown to be a fact, a mature person concedes that fact. There's nothing wrong with realistic conjecture but when it is applied to Scripture, it must line up. If it doesn't, move on. Discernment is a Spiritually developed skill and it is possible for one to learn to rely upon it. As students of the Word of God, we also know that we are never to pass judgement on another. Discernment is a guide. Judgement is for God. We are not to accuse others of intentions that are not for us to determine, such as being evil. This is a very dangerous thought to act upon. There are concepts that are directly determined for us, by God in Scripture, that are of evil actions and thoughts. Again, these are pre-determined by God. Man cannot judge but can discern as we would run the risk of falsely accusing which is stepping into God's area.Attempting to quench the ambers from firing up, let's move on and put our strengths and knowledge into another topic, please.Thank you,Cedarhart
Nice post cedarhart and very true You and I and Jordan have shown the truth of the simplicity in the scripture ... I have given a second a third wittness as to what the Jewish custom Peter would have understood was ... But most important the scripture backs it up It simply means exactly what it says .. a child could understand it.However for those that do not accept it. your choice is yours to believe as you wish
Quote:Originally Posted by Jordan See, that proves my point of this statement I said a while back ago. We have AusDisciple, shown you numerous scriptures and you ignore them all.It is impossible for men to claim their own interpretations came from Satan.But you are free to believe however and whatever you want. It's YOUR free will. From Ausdisciples: Jordan, drop it already!!My belief is NOT Satanic simply because it disagrees with a few of you here!! I pray to our Lord that you become a little more open minded than that with time. This topic should have a simple discussion. As with all discussions, there can be an element of "taking something too far". It is one thing to have an open mind to ideas and concepts but one needs to know where to draw the line and back off. Splitting hairs only invites distress and tension. When a discussion has run its course, let it go. Rehashing posts over and over with the same content is non-productive. It is a mature Christian that knows when the point has been made and pushing an idea on someone loses them completely.Likewise, when a point has been shown to be a fact, a mature person concedes that fact. There's nothing wrong with realistic conjecture but when it is applied to Scripture, it must line up. If it doesn't, move on. Discernment is a Spiritually developed skill and it is possible for one to learn to rely upon it. As students of the Word of God, we also know that we are never to pass judgement on another. Discernment is a guide. Judgement is for God. We are not to accuse others of intentions that are not for us to determine, such as being evil. This is a very dangerous thought to act upon. There are concepts that are directly determined for us, by God in Scripture, that are of evil actions and thoughts. Again, these are pre-determined by God. Man cannot judge but can discern as we would run the risk of falsely accusing which is stepping into God's area.Attempting to quench the ambers from firing up, let's move on and put our strengths and knowledge into another topic, please.Thank you,Cedarhart
Nice post cedarhart and very true You and I and Jordan have shown the truth of the simplicity in the scripture ... I have given a second a third wittness as to what the Jewish custom Peter would have understood was ... But most important the scripture backs it up It simply means exactly what it says .. a child could understand it.However for those that do not accept it. your choice is yours to believe as you wish
(Christina;67272)
Nice post cedarhart and very true You and I and Jordan have shown the truth of the simplicity in the scripture ... I have given a second a third wittness as to what the Jewish custom Peter would have understood was ... But most important the scripture backs it up It simply means exactly what it says .. a child could understand it.However for those that do not accept it. your choice is yours to believe as you wish
I have no problem accepting what Peter understood about Jewish custom and I thank you for pointing that out to me Christina. I also have no problem accepting that Peter was also talking about the timelessness of God. The entire passage is clearly about that and is indeed so simple a child could understand it.
Nice post cedarhart and very true You and I and Jordan have shown the truth of the simplicity in the scripture ... I have given a second a third wittness as to what the Jewish custom Peter would have understood was ... But most important the scripture backs it up It simply means exactly what it says .. a child could understand it.However for those that do not accept it. your choice is yours to believe as you wish
I have no problem accepting what Peter understood about Jewish custom and I thank you for pointing that out to me Christina. I also have no problem accepting that Peter was also talking about the timelessness of God. The entire passage is clearly about that and is indeed so simple a child could understand it.
(Christina;67272)
(cedarhart;67263)
Quote:Originally Posted by Jordan See, that proves my point of this statement I said a while back ago. We have AusDisciple, shown you numerous scriptures and you ignore them all.It is impossible for men to claim their own interpretations came from Satan.But you are free to believe however and whatever you want. It's YOUR free will. From Ausdisciples: Jordan, drop it already!!My belief is NOT Satanic simply because it disagrees with a few of you here!! I pray to our Lord that you become a little more open minded than that with time. This topic should have a simple discussion. As with all discussions, there can be an element of "taking something too far". It is one thing to have an open mind to ideas and concepts but one needs to know where to draw the line and back off. Splitting hairs only invites distress and tension. When a discussion has run its course, let it go. Rehashing posts over and over with the same content is non-productive. It is a mature Christian that knows when the point has been made and pushing an idea on someone loses them completely.Likewise, when a point has been shown to be a fact, a mature person concedes that fact. There's nothing wrong with realistic conjecture but when it is applied to Scripture, it must line up. If it doesn't, move on. Discernment is a Spiritually developed skill and it is possible for one to learn to rely upon it. As students of the Word of God, we also know that we are never to pass judgement on another. Discernment is a guide. Judgement is for God. We are not to accuse others of intentions that are not for us to determine, such as being evil. This is a very dangerous thought to act upon. There are concepts that are directly determined for us, by God in Scripture, that are of evil actions and thoughts. Again, these are pre-determined by God. Man cannot judge but can discern as we would run the risk of falsely accusing which is stepping into God's area.Attempting to quench the ambers from firing up, let's move on and put our strengths and knowledge into another topic, please.Thank you,Cedarhart
Nice post cedarhart and very true You and I and Jordan have shown the truth of the simplicity in the scripture ... I have given a second a third wittness as to what the Jewish custom Peter would have understood was ... But most important the scripture backs it up It simply means exactly what it says .. a child could understand it.However for those that do not accept it. your choice is yours to believe as you wishNice post Cedarhart, that is very true. always a line to draw from. We need to rightly discern what is good and what is bad.Christina, that is so true. Scriptures does really say alot, that even a child can understand what is being said.(AusDisciple;67260)
Jordan, drop it already!!My belief is NOT Satanic simply because it disagrees with a few of you here!! I pray to our Lord that you become a little more open minded than that with time.
Dannii, I'll make a point here... There is none and there will be no personal attacks coming from me at all. And lastly I have not yet called you from Satan yet. Do I have the intention to call anyone that? No! I only merely brought up the doctrine... But I will apologize to you ahead of time and right now. If you felt that way from me I am sorry.
(cedarhart;67263)
Quote:Originally Posted by Jordan See, that proves my point of this statement I said a while back ago. We have AusDisciple, shown you numerous scriptures and you ignore them all.It is impossible for men to claim their own interpretations came from Satan.But you are free to believe however and whatever you want. It's YOUR free will. From Ausdisciples: Jordan, drop it already!!My belief is NOT Satanic simply because it disagrees with a few of you here!! I pray to our Lord that you become a little more open minded than that with time. This topic should have a simple discussion. As with all discussions, there can be an element of "taking something too far". It is one thing to have an open mind to ideas and concepts but one needs to know where to draw the line and back off. Splitting hairs only invites distress and tension. When a discussion has run its course, let it go. Rehashing posts over and over with the same content is non-productive. It is a mature Christian that knows when the point has been made and pushing an idea on someone loses them completely.Likewise, when a point has been shown to be a fact, a mature person concedes that fact. There's nothing wrong with realistic conjecture but when it is applied to Scripture, it must line up. If it doesn't, move on. Discernment is a Spiritually developed skill and it is possible for one to learn to rely upon it. As students of the Word of God, we also know that we are never to pass judgement on another. Discernment is a guide. Judgement is for God. We are not to accuse others of intentions that are not for us to determine, such as being evil. This is a very dangerous thought to act upon. There are concepts that are directly determined for us, by God in Scripture, that are of evil actions and thoughts. Again, these are pre-determined by God. Man cannot judge but can discern as we would run the risk of falsely accusing which is stepping into God's area.Attempting to quench the ambers from firing up, let's move on and put our strengths and knowledge into another topic, please.Thank you,Cedarhart
Nice post cedarhart and very true You and I and Jordan have shown the truth of the simplicity in the scripture ... I have given a second a third wittness as to what the Jewish custom Peter would have understood was ... But most important the scripture backs it up It simply means exactly what it says .. a child could understand it.However for those that do not accept it. your choice is yours to believe as you wishNice post Cedarhart, that is very true. always a line to draw from. We need to rightly discern what is good and what is bad.Christina, that is so true. Scriptures does really say alot, that even a child can understand what is being said.(AusDisciple;67260)
Jordan, drop it already!!My belief is NOT Satanic simply because it disagrees with a few of you here!! I pray to our Lord that you become a little more open minded than that with time.
Dannii, I'll make a point here... There is none and there will be no personal attacks coming from me at all. And lastly I have not yet called you from Satan yet. Do I have the intention to call anyone that? No! I only merely brought up the doctrine... But I will apologize to you ahead of time and right now. If you felt that way from me I am sorry.
(AusDisciple;67273)
I have no problem accepting what Peter understood about Jewish custom and I thank you for pointing that out to me Christina. I also have no problem accepting that Peter was also talking about the timelessness of God. The entire passage is clearly about that and is indeed so simple a child could understand it.
Remember Gods word only says one thing and he never says its timeless he is in fact very specific there is no basis for your concusion. Im not telling you what to believe only warning that seeing what you chose will not get you to any futher in uderstanding ... God doesnt deal in kind of sort of timeless he says My Day/Days the Lords day is 1000 years read rev 20. As I know Jordan has told you it is also the key to 5mo and 1 hour in the book of Rev. God tells us these things for a reason. God is very specific about numbers they are extremly important in scripture I cant stress this enough ...he isnt so careless to insinuate a timeless period even the hairs on your head are numbered .. failure to understand this is a mistake...but Im done here I have told you what God says whether you believe it or not is your choice.
I have no problem accepting what Peter understood about Jewish custom and I thank you for pointing that out to me Christina. I also have no problem accepting that Peter was also talking about the timelessness of God. The entire passage is clearly about that and is indeed so simple a child could understand it.
Remember Gods word only says one thing and he never says its timeless he is in fact very specific there is no basis for your concusion. Im not telling you what to believe only warning that seeing what you chose will not get you to any futher in uderstanding ... God doesnt deal in kind of sort of timeless he says My Day/Days the Lords day is 1000 years read rev 20. As I know Jordan has told you it is also the key to 5mo and 1 hour in the book of Rev. God tells us these things for a reason. God is very specific about numbers they are extremly important in scripture I cant stress this enough ...he isnt so careless to insinuate a timeless period even the hairs on your head are numbered .. failure to understand this is a mistake...but Im done here I have told you what God says whether you believe it or not is your choice.
(epistemaniac;67246)
what people need to get past
ne's interpretation is not equal to God's interpretation, since you are not Goddisagreeing with that interpretation does not make God a fool, because you and God are not the samewhenever you explain why you interpret the scriptures as you do, you are therefore and thereby offering "man's interpretation" or, as the case may be, "woman's interpretation", that is, God did not reach down and whisper in your ear the correct interpretation, did He? A few examples of "man's" or "woman's" interpretations:"This story is unrelated to II Peter 3:8. Those "Jews" you speak of Danni are not of Judah. They are the Jews that calls themselves Jews but are liars. (Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9) Peter whom Christ used is a Jew that knows God's timing. 1 Day = 1000 years does not mean its a metaphor. In fact is quite very important to understand prophecy."and"this phrase should be thought to refer, as it is by some, to the day of judgment, and be expressive of the duration of that: it is certain that the Jews interpreted days of millenniums, and reckoned millenniums by days, and used this phrase in confirmation of it."since neither of these are exact statements found in Scripture, they are simply as a matter of fact nothing more or nothing less "men's/women's interpretations"......and of course the same goes for quotes by Barnes, Clarke, etc... the point being, that just like Barnes or Clarke, so too in the case of Jordan and Christiana or ken's or anyone else that explains what the scriptures mean, when we write out what the scriptures mean in our understanding. we are offering "man's words". It is simply sad when people confuse their words with God's words. We may disagree about what the Scripture means, but make no mistake, no one here speaks for God any more than the next person. So when someone says I simply cannot understand how one can fail to see that this is, since it is not a direct quotation from Scripture, "men's interpretations" every bit as much as Barnes or Clarke's interpretations.... the question is not whether or not we are offering "man's interpretation, it's impossible NOT to interpret, the question is, who's interpretation is the best interpretation based on the rules of hermeneutics and sound exegesis. It is also a fallacy to say that a propitiation or interpretation is wrong because it is "modern men's interpretation"..... just because something is "modern" it is not therefore false. Christiana and Jordan's words and interpretations are modern too, does this make them automatically wrong? I didn't think so. So then it is likewise a fallacy to say that Barnes or Clarke etc are wrong because they are modern. This is a form of the informal fallacy ab annis:"6. Chronological Snobbery Fallacy: This logical error is committed when someone tries to refute something merely by dating it, usually dating it as very old. (This could be labeled, Argumentum ab Annis, or argument because of age.)" (John N. Moore, M.S., Ed.D., is professor of natural science, Department of Natural Science, Michigan State University; A Check List on Fallacies of Reasoning to be Avoided by Scholarly, Rational Persons)a thing is neither true nor false because it is "modern" or "new" or "ancient".blessings,ken
Amen Ken. Could not have stated it any better. You Hit the nail on the Head. For no man is intitled to his or hers own interputation with out others in our Lord to test the Spirit (iNTURPUTATION) The for Fathers of the early days of the age of inlightenment explored the creation that they knew God had made. Nevertheless, in this exploration we call science, they look into seeing how God created. However, to day the majority of the accademic community of Science has turn to a philosphy / Ideology, of none creator to all that exsist. Nevertheless, they kep finding themselves, boxing themselves in a corner that points to God / creator. The Big Bag theory. They can go back to the beginning to less than a second. Yet can not explain were the matter came from. Yet, Paul Tells us that from nothing, God spoke and everything came to be. God is pure energy, un seen enrgey that created seen matter we call the cosmos. E=MC2 This is a hidden layer of truth in the Bible reveled by men through the study in the scienses. Yet, Paul was just simpley trying to explain what true faith was towards our Lord the creator. In doing so, God layed down Einstines relitivity, long before Einstine, through Paul on a topic of Faith. So what happens when the majority of the accademic scientific community look into the physics of the sub partical matter to prove of a none creator / God. They find them again boxed into a corner to were matter reacts differently. So to bring stability they have come to a theory called String Theory. The smallest matter known so far. Yet they cannot explain were it came from. What is even more funny, they are using a language we called mathematics in which God created. It is universal, in all aspects of creation. God set it up in the beginning using it to seporate one day from another, and letting see that as a collective of seven days = one week. Simple yes! Yet another layer of truth in the scriptures to the fact mathematics was used in the beginning of creation. TRUTH IS TRUTH For God told Adam to go out and subdue / explor the earth, to name the animals that he came upon. So do not be afraid of were truth comes from. know that it came from God and is not limitted to His written word. Gods creation shouts to proclaim His glory. "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the works of His hands. Day after Day they pour out speech; (Universal language Mathematics) night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where thier voice is not heard. Thier voice gose out into all the earth their words to the end of the world." (Psalms 19: 1-4) May the love of Christ unite each of us, as we explore the greatness of our Creator our Lord Jesus the Christ not only in the sriptures, but in all that shouts out at us (His creation). PEACE AND JOY BE UNTO US ALL WHO SEEK and EXCEPT THE THRUTH. Your brother in our Lord JESUS the Christ. Excepttruth.
what people need to get past
ne's interpretation is not equal to God's interpretation, since you are not Goddisagreeing with that interpretation does not make God a fool, because you and God are not the samewhenever you explain why you interpret the scriptures as you do, you are therefore and thereby offering "man's interpretation" or, as the case may be, "woman's interpretation", that is, God did not reach down and whisper in your ear the correct interpretation, did He? A few examples of "man's" or "woman's" interpretations:"This story is unrelated to II Peter 3:8. Those "Jews" you speak of Danni are not of Judah. They are the Jews that calls themselves Jews but are liars. (Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9) Peter whom Christ used is a Jew that knows God's timing. 1 Day = 1000 years does not mean its a metaphor. In fact is quite very important to understand prophecy."and"this phrase should be thought to refer, as it is by some, to the day of judgment, and be expressive of the duration of that: it is certain that the Jews interpreted days of millenniums, and reckoned millenniums by days, and used this phrase in confirmation of it."since neither of these are exact statements found in Scripture, they are simply as a matter of fact nothing more or nothing less "men's/women's interpretations"......and of course the same goes for quotes by Barnes, Clarke, etc... the point being, that just like Barnes or Clarke, so too in the case of Jordan and Christiana or ken's or anyone else that explains what the scriptures mean, when we write out what the scriptures mean in our understanding. we are offering "man's words". It is simply sad when people confuse their words with God's words. We may disagree about what the Scripture means, but make no mistake, no one here speaks for God any more than the next person. So when someone says I simply cannot understand how one can fail to see that this is, since it is not a direct quotation from Scripture, "men's interpretations" every bit as much as Barnes or Clarke's interpretations.... the question is not whether or not we are offering "man's interpretation, it's impossible NOT to interpret, the question is, who's interpretation is the best interpretation based on the rules of hermeneutics and sound exegesis. It is also a fallacy to say that a propitiation or interpretation is wrong because it is "modern men's interpretation"..... just because something is "modern" it is not therefore false. Christiana and Jordan's words and interpretations are modern too, does this make them automatically wrong? I didn't think so. So then it is likewise a fallacy to say that Barnes or Clarke etc are wrong because they are modern. This is a form of the informal fallacy ab annis:"6. Chronological Snobbery Fallacy: This logical error is committed when someone tries to refute something merely by dating it, usually dating it as very old. (This could be labeled, Argumentum ab Annis, or argument because of age.)" (John N. Moore, M.S., Ed.D., is professor of natural science, Department of Natural Science, Michigan State University; A Check List on Fallacies of Reasoning to be Avoided by Scholarly, Rational Persons)a thing is neither true nor false because it is "modern" or "new" or "ancient".blessings,kenAmen Ken. Could not have stated it any better. You Hit the nail on the Head. For no man is intitled to his or hers own interputation with out others in our Lord to test the Spirit (iNTURPUTATION) The for Fathers of the early days of the age of inlightenment explored the creation that they knew God had made. Nevertheless, in this exploration we call science, they look into seeing how God created. However, to day the majority of the accademic community of Science has turn to a philosphy / Ideology, of none creator to all that exsist. Nevertheless, they kep finding themselves, boxing themselves in a corner that points to God / creator. The Big Bag theory. They can go back to the beginning to less than a second. Yet can not explain were the matter came from. Yet, Paul Tells us that from nothing, God spoke and everything came to be. God is pure energy, un seen enrgey that created seen matter we call the cosmos. E=MC2 This is a hidden layer of truth in the Bible reveled by men through the study in the scienses. Yet, Paul was just simpley trying to explain what true faith was towards our Lord the creator. In doing so, God layed down Einstines relitivity, long before Einstine, through Paul on a topic of Faith. So what happens when the majority of the accademic scientific community look into the physics of the sub partical matter to prove of a none creator / God. They find them again boxed into a corner to were matter reacts differently. So to bring stability they have come to a theory called String Theory. The smallest matter known so far. Yet they cannot explain were it came from. What is even more funny, they are using a language we called mathematics in which God created. It is universal, in all aspects of creation. God set it up in the beginning using it to seporate one day from another, and letting see that as a collective of seven days = one week. Simple yes! Yet another layer of truth in the scriptures to the fact mathematics was used in the beginning of creation. TRUTH IS TRUTH For God told Adam to go out and subdue / explor the earth, to name the animals that he came upon. So do not be afraid of were truth comes from. know that it came from God and is not limitted to His written word. Gods creation shouts to proclaim His glory. "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the works of His hands. Day after Day they pour out speech; (Universal language Mathematics) night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where thier voice is not heard. Thier voice gose out into all the earth their words to the end of the world." (Psalms 19: 1-4) May the love of Christ unite each of us, as we explore the greatness of our Creator our Lord Jesus the Christ not only in the sriptures, but in all that shouts out at us (His creation). PEACE AND JOY BE UNTO US ALL WHO SEEK and EXCEPT THE THRUTH. Your brother in our Lord JESUS the Christ. Excepttruth.
All that being said this topic is about 2 Peter 3.8 not Einstein not the how of it ........a biblical verse .......how sad it is that Me or cedarhart or Jordan would even have to debate any of you on what verse means Peter 3: 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 1=1000 .... 1000=1... thats its God is simply giving the view from heaven and the view from earth they both say the same thing there is only one answer 1000y =1 Day ........thats it then he gives you Rev. millenium verses to back up Peters statement Im not interpreting anything just plain reading the words .......without a preconceived idea of men ... now how anyone gets timeless or forever out of this verse is man being man reading what fits their ideas .How much plainer can God make this ...Be not ignorant ...that means pay attention listen up Im going to say something important here ..a mystery is being revealed does everyone understand revealed ...to uncover... not to hide some hidden timeless or forever deep mysterious thing of TO REVEAL A TRUTH.. 1 Day =1000 years .... on earth and 1000 years =1 Day in heaven heres another translation from an older Bible(wyc) 8 But, ye most dear, this one thing be not hid to you [be not unknown], that one day with God is as a thousand years, and a thousand years be as one day [and a thousand years as one day].To be honest here if anyone is doing interpting and putting mans ideas and spin on this verse its those who say it means timeless or forever there is not one iota of evidence in all scripture that supports this ... Its a very simple straight forward verse God says 1 day with me is 1000 years (to you) ...To you 1000 years is but one Day to me
Tme is messurment by the fastest thing we know of. LIGHT.Whether it be know as a pratical or a wave or both. God said "let there be light." God created time. Therfore, time is subject to God, not God being subject to that which He created Light / TIME.Simple logic. God is greater than that which he created. God is infinity, He was before, before, and will be after, after. In the context of what Peter was telling us I agree with Alpha and Omega.God by calling our 1000 years liken to be like a Day unto the Lord, to show He is patient with us, and not how we think He is slow or taking to much time to respond to His promises for us. For to us a thousand years is a long time to wait, but to God it is like being one day liken to us.In other words our day is here then gone. It is short and quick. Just as a thousand years is like to God.
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