What Is Love?

justbyfaith · Oct 30, 2019

Webers_Home said:
.
● Rom 14:22b-23 . . Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by
what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats,
because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from
faith is sin.

In other words, it's possible to be wrong even when you're right because it's
a sin to forge ahead when one's conscience is not sure it's okay to do so.

I once knew a Christian who felt guilty just setting foot inside a BlockBuster
video store. Was he silly for feeling that way? Not in his mind; and it's your
own personal moral compass that counts in gray areas. Some Christians
can't permit themselves to dine in a restaurant that serves alcohol; while
others see nothing wrong with it. If those two kinds of Christians should
perchance dine out together, it's the more sensitive conscience that
determines where to eat.

In other words; it makes good spiritual sense to avoid insisting upon your
freedoms and rights sometimes in order to prevent dragging your fellow
Christians into something that makes them feel guilty and/or uncomfortable.
_

I would add the following scripture:

Rom 15:1, We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Rom 15:2, Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Rom 15:3, For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Webers_Home · Nov 1, 2019

.
● Rom 15:1-2 . . We may know that certain things make no difference, but
we cannot just go ahead and do them to please ourselves. We must be
considerate of the doubts and fears of those who believe certain things are
wrong.

Webster's defines "considerate" as thoughtful of the rights and feelings of
others, i.e. sympathetic regard; which is no doubt near impossible for
Christians afflicted with narcissistic personality disorder: a toxic
psychological condition characterized by a grandiose sense of self
importance, a need for excessive admiration, exploitive behavior in
relationships, and a lack of empathy.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 2, 2019

.
● Rom 15:7 . . Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in
order to bring praise to God.

That's a bit tricky but I think it just means all Christians should acknowledge
each other as Christians, and treat one another as Christians though they
may differ in opinion about what constitutes a true Christian.

For example: it's not unusual to hear a Christian pontificate that real
Christians would never watch R-rated movies, gamble, wear a speedo or a
string bikini, use cosmetics, smoke marijuana, expose cleavage or wear skin
tight yoga pants in public, stop for a beer on the way home from work, have
a glass of wine before bedtime, listen to RAP music, ditch church and
Sunday school for years at a time, or go in a bar or a nightclub where
there's topless female dancers up on a stage twining themselves around a
pole while leering men stuff currency into the hems of their skimpy little
costumes.

Too many Christians have the opinion that unless others believe and practice
the very same way they believe and practice, then those others are not
Christians. Well; the easiest way to settle this is to follow Webster's
definition that a Christian is simply someone who professes a belief in the
teachings of Jesus Christ. That's it: no more, no less, and no qualifiers. They
don't even have to practice The Lord's teachings; they only have to profess
to believe in them.

An internet forum I was on in the past made it even easier. In order to
qualify as a Christian on that forum; one only had to believe they were a
Christian; viz: they didn't have to prove they were a Christian; no, they only
had to be convinced in their own minds that they were a Christian. If we all
followed that rule it would put a stop to a lot of unnecessary quarreling,
name calling, and bad feelings.
_

justbyfaith · Nov 2, 2019

With that definition of born again Christian it would seem that some Christians are indeed hypocrites.

It has been said, "If you don't want to be a Christian because of hypocrisy in the church; become a Christian anyway because you will only add one more hypocrite to the bunch."

I believe that that is the wrong way to look at it.

We, as Christians, ought to be praying for Christ to purify His bride.

Certain things ought not to be even named among believers (Ephesians 5:3).

In other words, if someone who claims to be a brother or sister does such things, it ought not to be accepted by the church that that person is a brother or sister.

There ought to be a delineation (based on holiness) between believer and unbeliever.

Helen · Nov 2, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
What is Love? God. Period.
He said to take the low seat, to learn of Him and find rest for your souls. Jesus Christ, God lowered in the flesh put a great boulder, a great talent too heavy for any other to lift between His shoulders and lifted up...by the power of God and His might and His Spirit what was impossible for man alone...He stood upright with the weight of the world’s sin bearing between His shoulders. The strength of God...is indescribable. Many will tell you the Spirit is in the high seat over the flesh...but what if lower is higher? the Spirit of God comes underneath the weight of sin and death and begins to lift up those without the power to do so. Hebrews 13:12-14 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. [14] For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Taking the low seat is not exalted over all others but in coming underneath alongside Him (there is no continuing city but we seek one to come)and bearing His image in lifting the weak to stand. flesh is weak...the Spirit is willing.

Amen...nail on the head!

.

Webers_Home · Nov 3, 2019

.
● 1Cor 8:4-13 . .We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that
there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in
heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet
for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for
whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all
things came and through whom we live.

. . . But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to
idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed
to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not
bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we
do.

. . . Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not
become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience
sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be
emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother,
for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against
your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against
Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never
eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

That passage can be said to be a codicil to the 14th chapter of Romans.

Putting this into a modern context is pretty simple; e.g. here in Oregon we
have tavern-style restaurants; viz: a section of the tavern is a bar, and
another section is dedicated to dining. The bar sections usually host State
sanctioned gambling machines too and typically off-limits to minors.

Suppose you have Christian friends who sincerely feel it's wrong to dine in a
tavern-style restaurant because of the alcohol and the gambling. Though
you yourself might be comfortable in your own mind that there is no sin in
dining at taverns, your friends are not so sure. So if you were to take them
to a tavern, they would be committing sin in compromising their conscience;
and you would be committing sin by knowingly leading them in a situation
that causes them to make that compromise.

● Rom 15:1-2 . .We may know that these things make no difference, but we
cannot just go ahead and do them to please ourselves. We must be
considerate of the doubts and fears of those who think these things are
wrong. We should please others. If we do what helps them, we will build
them up in The Lord.

A pertinent example is Hooters; where the waitresses are cute buxom girls
filled out in all the right places clothed in short shorts, and clingy tops; so
that the situation is a double whammy of babes and alcohol. Supposing your
Christian buddy sincerely feels it's wrong for Christians to dine at Hooters?
Then you would be wrong in taking him there for a burger even if you were
convinced in your own mind there is nothing wrong with Hooters because
you would be leading your Christian buddy into a situation that's below him
and causes him to feel guilty and/or less of himself.

The Bible says that Christians should accommodate others to their
edification (edification means to build someone up as opposed to tearing
them down), Well, when we please ourselves to their detriment; that's being
selfish. Some guys feel that cute buxom girls and yummy gams are a God
send, while other guys regard them as the Devil in disguise. The correct
route here is to accommodate the more sensitive conscience.

This is one of those situations that requires that each individual to be
convinced in their own mind whether Hooters is wrong for themselves or
okay for themselves (Rom 14:5) and God forbid that Christians should
criticize a fellow Christian who frequents Hooters because this is indeed one
of those gray areas; and just who are you to legislate the rules for others in
gray areas (Rom 14:3-4). It's unfortunate that there are some very
imperious, domineering Christians out and about who see nothing wrong
with bullying others to compromise their convictions just so long as they get
their own way and everybody conforms to their way of thinking.
_

justbyfaith · Nov 3, 2019

I suppose that to the pure all things are pure;

However I think that for me, going into a bar where the maids are skimpily dressed would be compromise and would be an invitation to the devil to tempt me into sin.

And I think also that if there is anyone who thinks that they are so strong that they would not be tempted in such a situation, that they are not as strong as they think they are.

Let him who thinks he is standing take heed lest he fall.

bbyrd009 · Nov 3, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
What is Love? God. Period. He said to take the low seat, to learn of Him and find rest for your souls. Jesus Christ, God lowered in the flesh put a great boulder, a great talent too heavy for any other to lift between His shoulders and lifted up...by the power of God and His might and His Spirit what was impossible for man alone...He stood upright with the weight of the world’s sin bearing between His shoulders. The strength of God...is indescribable. Many will tell you the Spirit is in the high seat over the flesh...but what if lower is higher? the Spirit of God comes underneath the weight of sin and death and begins to lift up those without the power to do so. Hebrews 13:12-14 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. [14] For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Taking the low seat is not exalted over all others but in coming underneath alongside Him (there is no continuing city but we seek one to come)and bearing His image in lifting the weak to stand. flesh is weak...the Spirit is willing.

for whatever reason this made me recall a line from The Hidden Messages in Water, paraphrasing, "'love and gratitude' (written on paper in any language and taped facing in toward the water in clear container) made the prettiest crystals, and 'gratitude' alone came closer to that than 'love,'"
strangely, i thought

Webers_Home · Nov 4, 2019

.
● 1Cor 10:24 . . Nobody should seek only his own good, but also the good of others.

That's not saying it's wrong to seek your own good; just wrong to seek it at the expense of another's good; viz: selfish ambition might be an acceptable modus operandi in professional sports, politics, and big business; but it's totally unacceptable in one's association with fellow believers.

And there's nothing new in that; I mean after all; it's just another way of expressing the so-called golden rule; which states: "All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them." (Matt 7:12)
_

justbyfaith · Nov 4, 2019

Webers_Home said:
.
● 1Cor 10:24 . . Nobody should seek only his own good, but also the good of others.

That's not saying it's wrong to seek your own good; just wrong to seek it at the expense of another's good; viz: selfish ambition might be an acceptable modus operandi in professional sports, politics, and big business; but it's totally unacceptable in one's association with fellow believers.

And there's nothing new in that; I mean after all; it's just another way of expressing the so-called golden rule; which states: "All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them." (Matt 7:12)
_

I though it was, "He who has all the gold makes all the rules."

bbyrd009 · Nov 5, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
for whatever reason this made me recall a line from The Hidden Messages in Water, paraphrasing, "'love and gratitude' (written on paper in any language and taped facing in toward the water in clear container) made the prettiest crystals, and 'gratitude' alone came closer to that than 'love,'"
strangely, i thought

maybe bc God is Love, and we (90% water @birth) should concentrate on gratitude more?
("your love's like rhinestones,
falling from the sky")

VictoryinJesus · Nov 5, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
maybe bc God is Love, and we (90% water @birth) should concentrate on gratitude more?
("your love's like rhinestones,
falling from the sky")

“gratitude”. not good at definitions but when considering “gratitude”... also ‘gracious’ comes to mind. A gracious host: Isaiah 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Micah 2:8-9 Even of late my people is risen up as an enemy: ye pull off the robe with the garment from them that pass by securely as men averse from war. [9] The women of my people have ye cast out from their pleasant houses; from their children have ye taken away my glory for ever.

Webers_Home · Nov 5, 2019

.
● 1Cor 10:27-29 . . If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to
go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience.
But if anyone says to you "This has been offered in sacrifice" then do not eat
it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake— the
other man's conscience, I mean, not yours.

If you go ahead and dine in someone's home where you know in advance
the food is either dedicated to, or blessed by, a pagan deity, or that when
they say grace around the table it will be to a god other than your own, or to
a sacred personage that you do not accept; then your host is quite possibly
going to come to the conclusion that his religion is just as valid as yours if
you don't decline.

This is not saying that Catholics and Protestants can't eat together and/or
pray together around the table; nor is it saying that Christians and Jews
can't eat together and pray together around the table: not when Catholics,
Protestants, and Jews are all praying to the same God: just from a different
perspective.

I will say this though: if you are a Catholic host, and your guests are either
Protestants or Jews; then for heaven's sake DO NOT pray around the table
to Christ's mom and/or to one of Catholicism's many patron saints. That is
extremely offensive to Protestants and Jews, and totally unnecessary
anyway when you can just as easily say grace to the one supreme being
common to you all.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 6, 2019

.
● 1Cor 10:32-33 . . Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the
Gentiles, nor to the church of God: even as I please all men in all things, not
seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

The main idea here is courtesy with respect to cultural differences, viz:
tolerance; defined by Webster's as sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or
practices differing from, or conflicting with, one's own-- which is just the
opposite of bigotry.
_

justbyfaith · Nov 6, 2019

However, the homosexual community (and those who agree with them) defines our understanding that homosexuality is a sin as bigotry.

But certainly not according to the definition that you have given above, praise God!

Webers_Home · Nov 7, 2019

.
● 1Cor 11:33-34 . . My brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for
each other. If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you
meet together it may not result in judgment.

The command doesn't frown upon things like church banquets, men's'
breakfasts, ladies' luncheons, and/or potlucks per se. What it's criticizing is a
lack of congregational unity. Here's comments leading up to that verse.

● 1Cor 11:17-22 . . Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you,
since you come together not for the better but for the worse. For first of all,
when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among
you, and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions among you, that
those who are approved may be recognized among you.

. . .Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat The
Lord's Supper. For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others;
and one is hungry and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses to
eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who
have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not
praise you.

Their lack of love and unity during church functions was nothing short of
hypocrisy seeing as how The Lord's supper speaks of sacrifice rather than
selfishness, elitism, and hoarding. In other words; seeing as how Christians
all share in Christ's blood equally-- and deserve hell equally --then everyone
should be given equal treatment at church regardless of age, gender, skin
color, intelligence, income level, nationality, what side of the tracks they live
on, or social status.

None of Christ's body parts are untouchable; nor are any of them
expendable. God forbid that there should be some sort of caste system in a
gathering of people for whom Christ suffered and died equally for each one.
That just wouldn't be right: it would be an insult to the principles underlying
The Lord's supper.

● Matt 26:27 . . Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them,
saying: Drink from it, all of you.

If Christians are all drinking from the same cup, then they should all be, at
the very least, eating the same food and not be overly concerned about
where they sit and/or who they sit next to and/or who they're seen with.
And they should also make double sure that everyone gets enough to eat
and that no one gets left out and nobody gets more than his fair share. And
they should all sit down together at the same time. I just hate it when
people don't wait for each other. Some get back to the table and start in
gulping, slurping, clattering, and clanking while others from their table are
still in line.

And they should also take into consideration the possibility that a number of
their congregation are in assistance programs like TANF and SNAP. In other
words; don't just bring enough food from home for yourself; but, if you're
able, bring enough for those among you who can't bring anything at all. And
for heaven's sake, don't bring a side dish of gourmet food along just for
yourself. Leave your special gourmet stuff at home. There's just no excuse
for flaunting your "sophistication" around church thus giving everyone the
impression that everyone else's tastes are below yours.

You know; why am I even saying these things? In point of fact, why even
did Paul? I mean: shouldn't Christians be eo ipso sources of the milk of
human kindness without somebody shaming them and lecturing them into
being humane with their fellow believers and taking thought for their
feelings? Why must so many Christians be practically strong-armed into
being courteous with one another?
_

Webers_Home · Nov 8, 2019

.
● 1Cor 16:20 . . Greet one another with a holy kiss.

Kissing was a common form of greeting in the old world; and still is in the
Middle East and certain parts of Europe; but here in America-- a super-sized
racial/cultural/ethnic amalgam of customs from all over the globe --it's wise
to dispense your kisses with discretion. Some of us don't even like to be
hugged, let alone bussed; and if you should perchance try to make physical
contact with an autistic Christian, you're liable to cause them a panic attack;
so go easy on the touchy-feely stuff.

The people to whom Paul referred as "one another" are one's fellow born
again Christians. We're not required to be cozy with unbelievers. You can be
courteous to them, yes (cf. Matt 5:47) but reserve especially warm greetings
for your siblings; viz: those who've undergone a second birth as per John
1:12-13 and John 3:3-8, and thus share your adoption into God's home as
per Rom 8:15-17.
_

Webers_Home · Nov 9, 2019

.
● 1Cor 16:22 . . If anyone love not The Lord, let him be accursed.

One's love of The Lord is exemplified by loyalty.

● John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

● John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one
who loves me.

● John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who
does not love me will not obey my teaching.

Does a Muslim have to be a terrorist to be accursed? No; they only have to
be a loyal follower of Muhammad ibn `Abdullāh instead of a loyal follower of
Jesus Christ; same goes for Atheists, Nonreligious, Baha'i, Buddhists,
Chinese Universalists, Confucianists, Jains, Kabbalah mystics, Shintoists,
Spiritists, Taoists, Zoroastrians, Jews, Sikhs, and Hindus-- they're all
accursed and there is nothing to be gained in arguing about it.

How many people am I talking about? Well, as of mid 2014, worldwide there
were:

550,000 Scientologists
1,500,000 Mormons
8,200,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
7,794,000 Baha'i
515,951,000 Buddhists
451,292,000 Chinese Folk Religionists
8,424,000 Confucianists
974,597,000 Hindus
5,567,000 Jains
14,142,000 Jews
1,673,590 Muslims
2,819,000 Shintoists
24,918,000 Sikhs
14,183,000 Spiritists
8,660,000 Taoists
196,000 Zoroastrians
828,594,000 Nonreligious
692,111,000 Agnostics
136,483,000 Atheists.

The grand total of just those categories alone is 5,369,071,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if classical Christianity is the reality;
then a minimum of at least 75% of the earth's 2014 population of 7.2 billion
people didn't love The Lord.

NOTE: Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are Christians, yes, but not in the
classical sense.

Joseph Smith's movement is a spin-off; in other words: there's some
classical Christianity in Mormonism, but comprises only a portion of
Mormonism. The rest of it is extreme, to say the least.

Neither do Jehovah's Witnesses qualify as Christians in the classical sense.
Charles Taze Russell's movement is a spin-off too. There's some classical
Christianity in the Watchtower Society's doctrines, but comprises only a
portion of Russell's doctrines; and his slant on it is very peculiar.

BTW: An informative book that I personally consider an essential volume in
every Christian's library is called: "Kingdom Of The Cults" by Walter Martin.
_

justbyfaith · Nov 9, 2019

Webers_Home said:
How many people am I talking about? Well, as of mid 2014, worldwide there
were:

550,000 Scientologists
1,500,000 Mormons
8,200,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
7,794,000 Baha'i
515,951,000 Buddhists
451,292,000 Chinese Folk Religionists
8,424,000 Confucianists
974,597,000 Hindus
5,567,000 Jains
14,142,000 Jews
1,673,590 Muslims
2,819,000 Shintoists
24,918,000 Sikhs
14,183,000 Spiritists
8,660,000 Taoists
196,000 Zoroastrians
828,594,000 Nonreligious
692,111,000 Agnostics
136,483,000 Atheists.

The grand total of just those categories alone is 5,369,071,000

How many Christians in that group?

Grailhunter · Nov 10, 2019

page 7
Why do you thing that Christians have such a problem with defining love?
You might want to start at the root of the problem, whether it be platonic love or romantic love.

What Is Love?

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